Mailing List Archive

I suggest you direct your questions to visas@wikimedia.org. Those requests
were managed by an international team. You will get better answers than on
this mailing list I think.

JP

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:07 PM Jayanta Nath <jayantanth@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA
> invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada,
> otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation
> comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF. As per my
> knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their
> invitation from hosting countries.
>
> Regards,
> Jayanta
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>

Sorry to know that visa rejection news. As my thought visa process fully
depends on the embassy. It's not guaranteed any chapter even WMF to ensure
that If they provide invitation letter that means anyone got a visa!

I may share my last Wikimania Mexico experience at this point. Mexico
Embassy not available in Bangladesh and If we need Mexico visa we need to
visit India. But It's not good for me to go India for a visa so that I
follow different ways. I informed that If I have a valid USA visa then I
may enter Mexico. So I go to USA embassy and I submit all documents
provided by Wikimedia Mexico. I am lucky enough I got USA visa and attend
Wikimania Mexico. In the same time, one of my fellow Wikipedian go to India
for Mexico visa and got rejected. After back I suggest him to apply for the
USA via using same documents and submits. And finally, we both got USA visa
and attend Wikimania Mexico.

What exactly I point that, In my many International conferences attend
experience I see, Visa processing fully depend on the particular embassy.
Its totally depend on them if they provide visa or not. But the documents
may help to get visa easily.

Hasive

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland <
jpbeland@wikimedia.ca> wrote:

> I suggest you direct your questions to visas@wikimedia.org. Those
> requests were managed by an international team. You will get better answers
> than on this mailing list I think.
>
> JP
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:07 PM Jayanta Nath <jayantanth@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA
>> invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada,
>> otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation
>> comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF. As per my
>> knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their
>> invitation from hosting countries.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jayanta
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>


--
*Nurunnaby Chowdhury (Hasive) **:: **????????? ?????? (?????)*
User: Hasive <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Hasive> |
GSM/WhatsApp/Viber: +8801712754752
?
Administrator | Bengali Wikipedia <http://bn.wikipedia.org/wiki/user:Hasive>
Board Member | Wikimedia Bangladesh <http://www.wikimedia.org.bd/>
fb.com/Hasive <http://fb.com/NCHasive> | @nhasive
<http://www.twitter.com/nhasive> | www.nhasive.com

I have a few comments:
1)
We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
Jean-Philippe said:
"A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to
WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
chapter in doing this."
The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said
so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was
accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable.
Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong
local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
2)
Wikimania should be a world conference of Wikimedians. One very important
aspect of a bid should be visa help. Some countries are shall we say
"visa-friendly" and some countries are not. If the event is to be held in a
country where it is difficult to obtain visas, the organizers must set up a
service to facilitate the visa process and obtain help from their local
government authorities. In Geneva, for example, the government has set up
an office to help foreign delegates get visas for international
conferences, both UN conferences and NGO conferences. I have met with them
a few times and they are really very helpful.
3)
The scholarships probably need to be awarded a bit sooner so that
recipients have enough time to go through the whole visa procedure. Most
countries require proof that the visitor has a return flight and that he
can cover his food and lodging expenses as well as his emergency medical
expenses. It has also been pointed out in this discussion that some
embassies are quite fond of old fashioned paper. That means snail mail,
pony express and all that. I works fine, it just takes time...

Gabriel

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Nurunnaby Hasive <nch@nhasive.com> wrote:

> Sorry to know that visa rejection news. As my thought visa process fully
> depends on the embassy. It's not guaranteed any chapter even WMF to ensure
> that If they provide invitation letter that means anyone got a visa!
>
> I may share my last Wikimania Mexico experience at this point. Mexico
> Embassy not available in Bangladesh and If we need Mexico visa we need to
> visit India. But It's not good for me to go India for a visa so that I
> follow different ways. I informed that If I have a valid USA visa then I
> may enter Mexico. So I go to USA embassy and I submit all documents
> provided by Wikimedia Mexico. I am lucky enough I got USA visa and attend
> Wikimania Mexico. In the same time, one of my fellow Wikipedian go to India
> for Mexico visa and got rejected. After back I suggest him to apply for the
> USA via using same documents and submits. And finally, we both got USA visa
> and attend Wikimania Mexico.
>
> What exactly I point that, In my many International conferences attend
> experience I see, Visa processing fully depend on the particular embassy.
> Its totally depend on them if they provide visa or not. But the documents
> may help to get visa easily.
>
> Hasive
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland <
> jpbeland@wikimedia.ca> wrote:
>
>> I suggest you direct your questions to visas@wikimedia.org. Those
>> requests were managed by an international team. You will get better answers
>> than on this mailing list I think.
>>
>> JP
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:07 PM Jayanta Nath <jayantanth@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA
>>> invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada,
>>> otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation
>>> comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF. As per my
>>> knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their
>>> invitation from hosting countries.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Jayanta
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Nurunnaby Chowdhury (Hasive) **:: **????????? ?????? (?????)*
> User: Hasive <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Hasive> |
> GSM/WhatsApp/Viber: +8801712754752
> ?
> Administrator | Bengali Wikipedia
> <http://bn.wikipedia.org/wiki/user:Hasive>
> Board Member | Wikimedia Bangladesh <http://www.wikimedia.org.bd/>
> fb.com/Hasive <http://fb.com/NCHasive> | @nhasive
> <http://www.twitter.com/nhasive> | www.nhasive.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen <gabriel@thullen.com>
wrote:

> I have a few comments:
> 1)
> We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
> Jean-Philippe said:
> "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to
> WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
> chapter in doing this."
> The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said
> so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was
> accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable.
> Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong
> local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
>

??Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with
the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including yours
truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think everyone can
agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most
recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South Africa coming up.

2)
> Wikimania should be a world conference of Wikimedians. One very important
> aspect of a bid should be visa help. Some countries are shall we say
> "visa-friendly" and some countries are not. If the event is to be held in a
> country where it is difficult to obtain visas, the organizers must set up a
> service to facilitate the visa process and obtain help from their local
> government authorities. In Geneva, for example, the government has set up
> an office to help foreign delegates get visas for international
> conferences, both UN conferences and NGO conferences. I have met with them
> a few times and they are really very helpful.
>

?The Foundation tried very hard to set something up with Canada for
trouble-shooting to no avail. I spent many hours and it wasn't possible.
A service agency was not a possibility. They have a new system and I have
to admit it is a confusing process for a lot of people. They follow very
much the model of the United States. It is the major reason why we
don't regularly hold Wikimanias in either of these countries. ( ?The last
one was 2012 in Washington, D.C. ) For the scholarship program: we had
relatively few people denied Visas when you look at the total attendance...
the highest number was in D.C (I don't have the exact number but was told
it was high); the next was London (9); Italy (2); Mexico City - 0; Hong
Kong - 1.

As others have indicated in this thread, there is a big effort with alot of
people involved in trying to delivery everything that is needed in a timely
manner.

And yes, Visa friendliness along with security/safety issues are important
criteria when deciding where to hold future Wikimania's.



3)
> The scholarships probably need to be awarded a bit sooner so that
> recipients have enough time to go through the whole visa procedure. Most
> countries require proof that the visitor has a return flight and that he
> can cover his food and lodging expenses as well as his emergency medical
> expenses. It has also been pointed out in this discussion that some
> embassies are quite fond of old fashioned paper. That means snail mail,
> pony express and all that. I works fine, it just takes time...
>

?We notified people end of April which gives them 3 months which is usually
sufficient (some countries won't accept applications before that time).
Most of our scholarship recipients have been very diligent in getting all
the paperwork and information in process shortly after that. We set up a
system this year that required people to send us proof that they had filed
by May 15. If they need paper, we send paper. We even support people
having to travel to other countries to apply. Even so, it is often the
individual embassies that are big part of the problem in securing approval.
?

>
>
> Gabriel
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Nurunnaby Hasive <nch@nhasive.com> wrote:
>
>> Sorry to know that visa rejection news. As my thought visa process fully
>> depends on the embassy. It's not guaranteed any chapter even WMF to ensure
>> that If they provide invitation letter that means anyone got a visa!
>>
>> I may share my last Wikimania Mexico experience at this point. Mexico
>> Embassy not available in Bangladesh and If we need Mexico visa we need to
>> visit India. But It's not good for me to go India for a visa so that I
>> follow different ways. I informed that If I have a valid USA visa then I
>> may enter Mexico. So I go to USA embassy and I submit all documents
>> provided by Wikimedia Mexico. I am lucky enough I got USA visa and attend
>> Wikimania Mexico. In the same time, one of my fellow Wikipedian go to India
>> for Mexico visa and got rejected. After back I suggest him to apply for the
>> USA via using same documents and submits. And finally, we both got USA visa
>> and attend Wikimania Mexico.
>>
>> What exactly I point that, In my many International conferences attend
>> experience I see, Visa processing fully depend on the particular embassy.
>> Its totally depend on them if they provide visa or not. But the documents
>> may help to get visa easily.
>>
>> Hasive
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland <
>> jpbeland@wikimedia.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> I suggest you direct your questions to visas@wikimedia.org. Those
>>> requests were managed by an international team. You will get better answers
>>> than on this mailing list I think.
>>>
>>> JP
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:07 PM Jayanta Nath <jayantanth@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA
>>>> invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada,
>>>> otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation
>>>> comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF. As per my
>>>> knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their
>>>> invitation from hosting countries.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Jayanta
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Nurunnaby Chowdhury (Hasive) **:: **????????? ?????? (?????)*
>> User: Hasive <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Hasive> |
>> GSM/WhatsApp/Viber: +8801712754752
>> ?
>> Administrator | Bengali Wikipedia
>> <http://bn.wikipedia.org/wiki/user:Hasive>
>> Board Member | Wikimedia Bangladesh <http://www.wikimedia.org.bd/>
>> fb.com/Hasive <http://fb.com/NCHasive> | @nhasive
>> <http://www.twitter.com/nhasive> | www.nhasive.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>


--
Ellie Young
Events Manager
Wikimedia Foundation
eyoung@wikimedia.org
c. 510 701 8649

A lot of great suggestions and comments have been shared on here, but just
to add unto that.

One thing I know for sure that works is having an invitation letter from
say the WMF and the Local Organising Organisation. It is also very useful
to often include mayors of towns, states and cities where the conferences
will happen.

This is one the very reasons why ICANN conferences are usually successful
in terms of attendance, you get these two letters and an endorsement from
say a mayor and that carries a lot of weight. I know this was also done for
Wikimania Esino Lario and this could have accounted for its, low rejection
rates.

Cheers,

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 12:00 AM, Ellie Young <eyoung@wikimedia.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen <gabriel@thullen.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I have a few comments:
>> 1)
>> We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
>> Jean-Philippe said:
>> "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to
>> WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
>> chapter in doing this."
>> The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said
>> so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was
>> accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable.
>> Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong
>> local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
>>
>
> ??Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with
> the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including yours
> truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think everyone can
> agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most
> recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South Africa coming up.
>
> 2)
>> Wikimania should be a world conference of Wikimedians. One very important
>> aspect of a bid should be visa help. Some countries are shall we say
>> "visa-friendly" and some countries are not. If the event is to be held in a
>> country where it is difficult to obtain visas, the organizers must set up a
>> service to facilitate the visa process and obtain help from their local
>> government authorities. In Geneva, for example, the government has set up
>> an office to help foreign delegates get visas for international
>> conferences, both UN conferences and NGO conferences. I have met with them
>> a few times and they are really very helpful.
>>
>
> ?The Foundation tried very hard to set something up with Canada for
> trouble-shooting to no avail. I spent many hours and it wasn't possible.
> A service agency was not a possibility. They have a new system and I have
> to admit it is a confusing process for a lot of people. They follow very
> much the model of the United States. It is the major reason why we
> don't regularly hold Wikimanias in either of these countries. ( ?The last
> one was 2012 in Washington, D.C. ) For the scholarship program: we had
> relatively few people denied Visas when you look at the total attendance...
> the highest number was in D.C (I don't have the exact number but was told
> it was high); the next was London (9); Italy (2); Mexico City - 0; Hong
> Kong - 1.
>
> As others have indicated in this thread, there is a big effort with alot
> of people involved in trying to delivery everything that is needed in a
> timely manner.
>
> And yes, Visa friendliness along with security/safety issues are important
> criteria when deciding where to hold future Wikimania's.
>
>
>
> 3)
>> The scholarships probably need to be awarded a bit sooner so that
>> recipients have enough time to go through the whole visa procedure. Most
>> countries require proof that the visitor has a return flight and that he
>> can cover his food and lodging expenses as well as his emergency medical
>> expenses. It has also been pointed out in this discussion that some
>> embassies are quite fond of old fashioned paper. That means snail mail,
>> pony express and all that. I works fine, it just takes time...
>>
>
> ?We notified people end of April which gives them 3 months which is
> usually sufficient (some countries won't accept applications before that
> time). Most of our scholarship recipients have been very diligent in
> getting all the paperwork and information in process shortly after that.
> We set up a system this year that required people to send us proof that
> they had filed by May 15. If they need paper, we send paper. We even
> support people having to travel to other countries to apply. Even so, it
> is often the individual embassies that are big part of the problem in
> securing approval. ?
>
>>
>>
>> Gabriel
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Nurunnaby Hasive <nch@nhasive.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry to know that visa rejection news. As my thought visa process fully
>>> depends on the embassy. It's not guaranteed any chapter even WMF to ensure
>>> that If they provide invitation letter that means anyone got a visa!
>>>
>>> I may share my last Wikimania Mexico experience at this point. Mexico
>>> Embassy not available in Bangladesh and If we need Mexico visa we need to
>>> visit India. But It's not good for me to go India for a visa so that I
>>> follow different ways. I informed that If I have a valid USA visa then I
>>> may enter Mexico. So I go to USA embassy and I submit all documents
>>> provided by Wikimedia Mexico. I am lucky enough I got USA visa and attend
>>> Wikimania Mexico. In the same time, one of my fellow Wikipedian go to India
>>> for Mexico visa and got rejected. After back I suggest him to apply for the
>>> USA via using same documents and submits. And finally, we both got USA visa
>>> and attend Wikimania Mexico.
>>>
>>> What exactly I point that, In my many International conferences attend
>>> experience I see, Visa processing fully depend on the particular embassy.
>>> Its totally depend on them if they provide visa or not. But the documents
>>> may help to get visa easily.
>>>
>>> Hasive
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland <
>>> jpbeland@wikimedia.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I suggest you direct your questions to visas@wikimedia.org. Those
>>>> requests were managed by an international team. You will get better answers
>>>> than on this mailing list I think.
>>>>
>>>> JP
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:07 PM Jayanta Nath <jayantanth@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA
>>>>> invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada,
>>>>> otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation
>>>>> comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF. As per my
>>>>> knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their
>>>>> invitation from hosting countries.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Jayanta
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Nurunnaby Chowdhury (Hasive) **:: **????????? ?????? (?????)*
>>> User: Hasive <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Hasive> |
>>> GSM/WhatsApp/Viber: +8801712754752
>>> ?
>>> Administrator | Bengali Wikipedia
>>> <http://bn.wikipedia.org/wiki/user:Hasive>
>>> Board Member | Wikimedia Bangladesh <http://www.wikimedia.org.bd/>
>>> fb.com/Hasive <http://fb.com/NCHasive> | @nhasive
>>> <http://www.twitter.com/nhasive> | www.nhasive.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ellie Young
> Events Manager
> Wikimedia Foundation
> eyoung@wikimedia.org
> c. 510 701 8649
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>


--
*Felix Nartey*
*Cofounder/Director Finance & Admin*
*Open Foundation West Africa <https://openfoundationwestafrica.org/>*
*+233242844987 | +447440959477*
*Skype:Flixtey*

I believe this was not the best decision to make, I can understand handling
recipients' financials and some other logistics through WMF. But clearly
visas should have been handled by some entity in Canada. We ran into some
problems in 2008 (limited number as Egypt is a touristic country in the
first place), but the library of Alexandria was of a great help to issue
letters of invitation.
Sometimes it's not even up to the organizing committee. I was invited to
Taiwan, 2007 and couldn't go due to the diplomatic ties complications.
Overall, I don't mind having wikimanias in Canada and the US but I hope
that the visa application process for attendees would be given high
priority during bidding time.

Cheers,
Mido

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 17:20, Jean-Philippe Béland <jpbeland@wikimedia.ca>
wrote:

> As per WMF directions, Wikimedia Canada was not involved in anything in
> relations to visas. The WMF is taking care of that themselves. They did not
> ask us to write anything to embassies.
>
> I am sorry that Canada has strict rules on visa requirements for a lot of
> countries.
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> User:Amqui
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Ranjith S <ranjith.sajeev@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I
>> think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And
>> thinking that is not a tourist friendly country.
>>
>> On 23-Jun-2017 12:52 AM, "Jayanta Nath" <jayantanth@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think Wikimedia Canada not send any intimation to their Embassy of
>>> respective countries.
>>>
>>> Jayanta Nath
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
>
> [image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
> <https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=fr>, chapitre national
> soutenant Wikipédia
> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
> <https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=en>, national chapter
> supporting Wikipedia
> 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec) H2L 2P3,jpbeland@wikimedia.ca
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
--
Mido

So an organisation P in country Q writes a letter of support to country R to grant a visa to person S from country T on the basis that organization P thinks that person S is actually the pseudonymous user U?

I am not surprised immigration officials don't find this an entirely compelling reason to grant a visa. WMF is not a Canadian organization, and it is not clear to me that WMF is actually in a position to confirm the real life identity of the user they want to attend in any case.

Kerry

Sent from my iPad

> On 24 Jun 2017, at 12:19 am, Jean-Philippe Béland <jpbeland@wikimedia.ca> wrote:
>
> As per WMF directions, Wikimedia Canada was not involved in anything in relations to visas. The WMF is taking care of that themselves. They did not ask us to write anything to embassies.
>
> I am sorry that Canada has strict rules on visa requirements for a lot of countries.
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> User:Amqui
>
>
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Ranjith S <ranjith.sajeev@gmail.com> wrote:
>> My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And thinking that is not a tourist friendly country.
>>
>>> On 23-Jun-2017 12:52 AM, "Jayanta Nath" <jayantanth@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I think Wikimedia Canada not send any intimation to their Embassy of respective countries.
>>>
>>> Jayanta Nath
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
>
> Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada, chapitre national soutenant Wikipédia
> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada, national chapter supporting Wikipedia
> 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec) H2L 2P3,jpbeland@wikimedia.ca
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

So an organisation P in country Q writes a letter of support to country R
to grant a visa to person S from country T on the basis that organization P
thinks that person S is actually the pseudonymous user U?

++ this is the big issue.

On 24-Jun-2017 6:58 AM, "Kerry Raymond" <kerry.raymond@gmail.com> wrote:

> So an organisation P in country Q writes a letter of support to country R
> to grant a visa to person S from country T on the basis that organization P
> thinks that person S is actually the pseudonymous user U?
>
> I am not surprised immigration officials don't find this an entirely
> compelling reason to grant a visa. WMF is not a Canadian organization, and
> it is not clear to me that WMF is actually in a position to confirm the
> real life identity of the user they want to attend in any case.
>
> Kerry
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 24 Jun 2017, at 12:19 am, Jean-Philippe Béland <jpbeland@wikimedia.ca>
> wrote:
>
> As per WMF directions, Wikimedia Canada was not involved in anything in
> relations to visas. The WMF is taking care of that themselves. They did not
> ask us to write anything to embassies.
>
> I am sorry that Canada has strict rules on visa requirements for a lot of
> countries.
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> User:Amqui
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Ranjith S <ranjith.sajeev@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I
>> think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And
>> thinking that is not a tourist friendly country.
>>
>> On 23-Jun-2017 12:52 AM, "Jayanta Nath" <jayantanth@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think Wikimedia Canada not send any intimation to their Embassy of
>>> respective countries.
>>>
>>> Jayanta Nath
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
>
> [image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
> <https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=fr>, chapitre national
> soutenant Wikipédia
> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
> <https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=en>, national chapter
> supporting Wikipedia
> 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec) H2L 2P3,jpbeland@wikimedia.ca
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>

Writing as a Canadian, I can only apologize for the difficulty so many of
you are having in obtaining visas to this country. I am really looking
forward to welcoming many of you to the beautiful city of Montreal, and I
am devastated to read that so many people seem to be being turned down for
visas.

The decisions for locations for Wikimania are made about two years in
advance - which is actually pretty late for large international conferences
(most international organizations make these decisions 3-4 years in
advance). But even during the course of two years, some circumstances can
change significantly. I am aware that Canada has become more stringent in
handing out visas, as have many other countries in the past 2 years -
something that couldn't really be anticipated at the time the decision was
made. I don't have any good advice for any of you on this - while I live
in Canada, I'm not a member of either the Wikimania planning group or
Wikimania Canada, and I have no contacts in the federal government that
would be helpful in getting visas.

I am hoping that some magic can happen for you that will enable you to come
to Canada. We will all be losing the value of your company, and you will
be missed.

Risker/Anne



On 23 June 2017 at 21:28, Kerry Raymond <kerry.raymond@gmail.com> wrote:

> So an organisation P in country Q writes a letter of support to country R
> to grant a visa to person S from country T on the basis that organization P
> thinks that person S is actually the pseudonymous user U?
>
> I am not surprised immigration officials don't find this an entirely
> compelling reason to grant a visa. WMF is not a Canadian organization, and
> it is not clear to me that WMF is actually in a position to confirm the
> real life identity of the user they want to attend in any case.
>
> Kerry
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 24 Jun 2017, at 12:19 am, Jean-Philippe Béland <jpbeland@wikimedia.ca>
> wrote:
>
> As per WMF directions, Wikimedia Canada was not involved in anything in
> relations to visas. The WMF is taking care of that themselves. They did not
> ask us to write anything to embassies.
>
> I am sorry that Canada has strict rules on visa requirements for a lot of
> countries.
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> User:Amqui
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Ranjith S <ranjith.sajeev@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I
>> think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And
>> thinking that is not a tourist friendly country.
>>
>> On 23-Jun-2017 12:52 AM, "Jayanta Nath" <jayantanth@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think Wikimedia Canada not send any intimation to their Embassy of
>>> respective countries.
>>>
>>> Jayanta Nath
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
>
> [image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
> <https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=fr>, chapitre national
> soutenant Wikipédia
> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
> <https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=en>, national chapter
> supporting Wikipedia
> 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec) H2L 2P3,jpbeland@wikimedia.ca
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>

I would think that once a location is chosen the first step would be for
the WMF to immediately open up discussions with the relevant Authority to
ensure that scholarships recipients have sufficient paperwork and time to
get approval as well as any assurances or processing options can be put in
place. If there is a limit put on the number of attendee then at least
that can be in the open so people know and if people already have visa that
enable them to attend they could at least present this as part of the
application.

Ideally an Affiliate would be the best situated to do such things but this
then raises issues about the status of User Groups which are designed not
to have the bureaucracy of chapters and therefore wont necessarily have the
same legal standing to support visa applications or even advocate for them.



On 24 June 2017 at 10:19, Risker <risker.wp@gmail.com> wrote:

> Writing as a Canadian, I can only apologize for the difficulty so many of
> you are having in obtaining visas to this country. I am really looking
> forward to welcoming many of you to the beautiful city of Montreal, and I
> am devastated to read that so many people seem to be being turned down for
> visas.
>
> The decisions for locations for Wikimania are made about two years in
> advance - which is actually pretty late for large international conferences
> (most international organizations make these decisions 3-4 years in
> advance). But even during the course of two years, some circumstances can
> change significantly. I am aware that Canada has become more stringent in
> handing out visas, as have many other countries in the past 2 years -
> something that couldn't really be anticipated at the time the decision was
> made. I don't have any good advice for any of you on this - while I live
> in Canada, I'm not a member of either the Wikimania planning group or
> Wikimania Canada, and I have no contacts in the federal government that
> would be helpful in getting visas.
>
> I am hoping that some magic can happen for you that will enable you to
> come to Canada. We will all be losing the value of your company, and you
> will be missed.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
>
>
> On 23 June 2017 at 21:28, Kerry Raymond <kerry.raymond@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So an organisation P in country Q writes a letter of support to country R
>> to grant a visa to person S from country T on the basis that organization P
>> thinks that person S is actually the pseudonymous user U?
>>
>> I am not surprised immigration officials don't find this an entirely
>> compelling reason to grant a visa. WMF is not a Canadian organization, and
>> it is not clear to me that WMF is actually in a position to confirm the
>> real life identity of the user they want to attend in any case.
>>
>> Kerry
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 24 Jun 2017, at 12:19 am, Jean-Philippe Béland <jpbeland@wikimedia.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> As per WMF directions, Wikimedia Canada was not involved in anything in
>> relations to visas. The WMF is taking care of that themselves. They did not
>> ask us to write anything to embassies.
>>
>> I am sorry that Canada has strict rules on visa requirements for a lot of
>> countries.
>>
>> Jean-Philippe Béland
>> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
>> User:Amqui
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Ranjith S <ranjith.sajeev@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I
>>> think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And
>>> thinking that is not a tourist friendly country.
>>>
>>> On 23-Jun-2017 12:52 AM, "Jayanta Nath" <jayantanth@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think Wikimedia Canada not send any intimation to their Embassy of
>>>> respective countries.
>>>>
>>>> Jayanta Nath
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Jean-Philippe Béland
>>
>> [image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
>> <https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=fr>, chapitre national
>> soutenant Wikipédia
>> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
>> <https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=en>, national chapter
>> supporting Wikipedia
>> 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec) H2L 2P3,jpbeland@wikimedia.ca
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>


--
GN.
President Wikimedia Australia
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com

On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen <gabriel@thullen.com
> <mailto:gabriel@thullen.com>> wrote:
>
> I have a few comments:
> 1)
> We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
> Jean-Philippe said:
> "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the
> request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not
> coordinate with the chapter in doing this."
> The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is
> being said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that
> the Montreal bid was accepted in absence of the local chapter
> support. That is not acceptable. Looking back on the success of
> the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong local chapter and
> volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
>
>
> ??Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues
> with the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee
> (including yours truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved.
> I think everyone can agree how important it is for having the local
> chapters involved--- most recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of
> course South Africa coming up.
>

Hi Ellie,
This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a
decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance,
but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature
organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary" committee.

A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a
commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and
perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).

Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature*
local organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.

But at this point is also interesting to know how big may be the impact
on a chapter. The organization of an event like Wikimania is something
fascinating, but at the same time it's more than a "stress test" for a
chapter.

Kind regards

--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch



---
Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast antivirus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one
Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other
because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I
want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this
case:

- Participants:
-- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you
should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of
people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help.
This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I
remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local
chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed
it.
-- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of my
friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the
embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got
the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to
the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and
Italy for 8 days to make things legal)
-- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention
Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have
positive feelings.
-- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this
year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to
travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event
but let's hope to meet them soon.

-WMF:
-- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal,
support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going
to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said
and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place
(probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa
documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends
need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets
rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of
people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others.
-- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one
multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is
very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way
easier.

Local chapters:
-- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process of
visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle it
perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but
sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which
increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They
usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs
to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.

Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.

Best


On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli <
ilario.valdelli@wikimedia.ch> wrote:

> On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen <gabriel@thullen.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I have a few comments:
>> 1)
>> We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
>> Jean-Philippe said:
>> "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to
>> WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
>> chapter in doing this."
>> The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said
>> so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was
>> accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable.
>> Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong
>> local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
>>
>
> ??Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with
> the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including yours
> truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think everyone can
> agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most
> recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South Africa coming up.
>
>
> Hi Ellie,
> This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a
> decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance,
> but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature
> organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary" committee.
>
> A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a
> commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and
> perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).
>
> Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature* local
> organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.
>
> But at this point is also interesting to know how big may be the impact on
> a chapter. The organization of an event like Wikimania is something
> fascinating, but at the same time it's more than a "stress test" for a
> chapter.
>
> Kind regards
>
> --
> Ilario Valdelli
> Wikimedia CH
> Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
> Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
> Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
> Tel: +41764821371 <+41%2076%20482%2013%2071>http://www.wikimedia.ch
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Mail
> priva di virus. www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
> <#m_3850020966839007458_m_-2762511510589227394_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>

Hi Amir,

I found your experience with visa issue very edifying.
You can write a study case for this matter. Do not wait for opening centralized
place on meta to share what you know about how to get a visa.

Regards,
Zana

2017-06-24 14:47 GMT+02:00 Amir Ladsgroup <ladsgroup@gmail.com>:

> As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one
> Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other
> because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I
> want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this
> case:
>
> - Participants:
> -- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you
> should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of
> people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help.
> This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I
> remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local
> chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed
> it.
> -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of my
> friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the
> embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got
> the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to
> the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and
> Italy for 8 days to make things legal)
> -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention
> Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have
> positive feelings.
> -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this
> year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to
> travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event
> but let's hope to meet them soon.
>
> -WMF:
> -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal,
> support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going
> to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said
> and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place
> (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa
> documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends
> need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets
> rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of
> people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others.
> -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one
> multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is
> very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way
> easier.
>
> Local chapters:
> -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process of
> visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle it
> perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but
> sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which
> increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They
> usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs
> to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.
>
> Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.
>
> Best
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli <
> ilario.valdelli@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
>
>> On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen <gabriel@thullen.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a few comments:
>>> 1)
>>> We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
>>> Jean-Philippe said:
>>> "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request
>>> to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
>>> chapter in doing this."
>>> The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being
>>> said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid
>>> was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not
>>> acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe
>>> that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania
>>> event.
>>>
>>
>> ??Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with
>> the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including yours
>> truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think everyone can
>> agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most
>> recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South Africa coming up.
>>
>>
>> Hi Ellie,
>> This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a
>> decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance,
>> but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature
>> organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary" committee.
>>
>> A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a
>> commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and
>> perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).
>>
>> Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature* local
>> organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.
>>
>> But at this point is also interesting to know how big may be the impact
>> on a chapter. The organization of an event like Wikimania is something
>> fascinating, but at the same time it's more than a "stress test" for a
>> chapter.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> --
>> Ilario Valdelli
>> Wikimedia CH
>> Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
>> Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
>> Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
>> Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
>> Tel: +41764821371 <+41%2076%20482%2013%2071>http://www.wikimedia.ch
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Mail
>> priva di virus. www.avast.com
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>> <#m_-715280980185801926_m_3850020966839007458_m_-2762511510589227394_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>

Hi Amir,

If you do write something up, please let me know so I can link from Wikimania 2018 site.

Cheers,

Peter



From: Wikimania-l [mailto:wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Zana Strkovska
Sent: Sunday, 25 June 2017 1:49 AM
To: Wikimania general list (open subscription)
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections



Hi Amir,



I found your experience with visa issue very edifying.

You can write a study case for this matter. Do not wait for opening centralized place on meta to share what you know about how to get a visa.



Regards,

Zana



2017-06-24 14:47 GMT+02:00 Amir Ladsgroup <ladsgroup@gmail.com>:

As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this case:



- Participants:

-- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help. This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed it.

-- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of my friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and Italy for 8 days to make things legal)

-- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have positive feelings.

-- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event but let's hope to meet them soon.



-WMF:

-- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal, support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others.

-- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way easier.



Local chapters:

-- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process of visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle it perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.



Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.



Best





On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli <ilario.valdelli@wikimedia.ch> wrote:

On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:





On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen <gabriel@thullen.com> wrote:

I have a few comments:
1)
We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania. Jean-Philippe said:
"A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this."

The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.



??Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including yours truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think everyone can agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South Africa coming up.





Hi Ellie,
This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance, but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary" committee.

A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).

Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature* local organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.

But at this point is also interesting to know how big may be the impact on a chapter. The organization of an event like Wikimania is something fascinating, but at the same time it's more than a "stress test" for a chapter.

Kind regards





--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371 <tel:+41%2076%20482%2013%2071>
http://www.wikimedia.ch




<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Image removed by sender.

Mail priva di virus. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> www.avast.com

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

I think the centralized place on meta is a great idea so we could put tips,
samples, and maybe even an 'advice line' for people who might be able to
help someone in a particular region. If someone wants to start this I'd
be happy to add, edit, etc.

Ellie


On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 5:47 AM, Amir Ladsgroup <ladsgroup@gmail.com> wrote:

> As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one
> Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other
> because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I
> want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this
> case:
>
> - Participants:
> -- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you
> should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of
> people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help.
> This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I
> remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local
> chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed
> it.
> -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of my
> friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the
> embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got
> the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to
> the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and
> Italy for 8 days to make things legal)
> -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention
> Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have
> positive feelings.
> -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this
> year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to
> travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event
> but let's hope to meet them soon.
>
> -WMF:
> -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal,
> support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going
> to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said
> and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place
> (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa
> documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends
> need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets
> rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of
> people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others.
> -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one
> multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is
> very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way
> easier.
>
> Local chapters:
> -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process of
> visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle it
> perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but
> sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which
> increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They
> usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs
> to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.
>
> Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.
>
> Best
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli <
> ilario.valdelli@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
>
>> On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen <gabriel@thullen.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a few comments:
>>> 1)
>>> We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
>>> Jean-Philippe said:
>>> "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request
>>> to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
>>> chapter in doing this."
>>> The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being
>>> said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid
>>> was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not
>>> acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe
>>> that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania
>>> event.
>>>
>>
>> ??Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with
>> the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including yours
>> truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think everyone can
>> agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most
>> recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South Africa coming up.
>>
>>
>> Hi Ellie,
>> This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a
>> decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance,
>> but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature
>> organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary" committee.
>>
>> A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a
>> commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and
>> perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).
>>
>> Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature* local
>> organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.
>>
>> But at this point is also interesting to know how big may be the impact
>> on a chapter. The organization of an event like Wikimania is something
>> fascinating, but at the same time it's more than a "stress test" for a
>> chapter.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> --
>> Ilario Valdelli
>> Wikimedia CH
>> Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
>> Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
>> Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
>> Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
>> Tel: +41764821371 <+41%2076%20482%2013%2071>http://www.wikimedia.ch
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Mail
>> priva di virus. www.avast.com
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>> <#m_-1851108117246999399_m_3850020966839007458_m_-2762511510589227394_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>


--
Ellie Young
Events Manager
Wikimedia Foundation
eyoung@wikimedia.org
c. 510 701 8649

The creation of one or more learning patterns could be good here. Please
see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns.

Pine


On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Ellie Young <eyoung@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> I think the centralized place on meta is a great idea so we could put
> tips, samples, and maybe even an 'advice line' for people who might be able
> to help someone in a particular region. If someone wants to start this
> I'd be happy to add, edit, etc.
>
> Ellie
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 5:47 AM, Amir Ladsgroup <ladsgroup@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one
>> Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other
>> because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I
>> want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this
>> case:
>>
>> - Participants:
>> -- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you
>> should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of
>> people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help.
>> This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I
>> remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local
>> chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed
>> it.
>> -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of my
>> friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the
>> embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got
>> the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to
>> the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and
>> Italy for 8 days to make things legal)
>> -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention
>> Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have
>> positive feelings.
>> -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this
>> year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to
>> travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event
>> but let's hope to meet them soon.
>>
>> -WMF:
>> -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal,
>> support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going
>> to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said
>> and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place
>> (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa
>> documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends
>> need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets
>> rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of
>> people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others.
>> -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one
>> multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is
>> very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way
>> easier.
>>
>> Local chapters:
>> -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process
>> of visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle
>> it perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but
>> sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which
>> increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They
>> usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs
>> to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.
>>
>> Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.
>>
>> Best
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli <
>> ilario.valdelli@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen <gabriel@thullen.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a few comments:
>>>> 1)
>>>> We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
>>>> Jean-Philippe said:
>>>> "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request
>>>> to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
>>>> chapter in doing this."
>>>> The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being
>>>> said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid
>>>> was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not
>>>> acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe
>>>> that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania
>>>> event.
>>>>
>>>
>>> ??Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with
>>> the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including yours
>>> truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think everyone can
>>> agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most
>>> recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South Africa coming up.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Ellie,
>>> This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a
>>> decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance,
>>> but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature
>>> organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary"
>>> committee.
>>>
>>> A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a
>>> commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and
>>> perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).
>>>
>>> Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature*
>>> local organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.
>>>
>>> But at this point is also interesting to know how big may be the impact
>>> on a chapter. The organization of an event like Wikimania is something
>>> fascinating, but at the same time it's more than a "stress test" for a
>>> chapter.
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ilario Valdelli
>>> Wikimedia CH
>>> Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
>>> Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
>>> Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
>>> Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
>>> Tel: +41764821371 <+41%2076%20482%2013%2071>http://www.wikimedia.ch
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Mail
>>> priva di virus. www.avast.com
>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>>> <#m_6880580939877686418_m_-1851108117246999399_m_3850020966839007458_m_-2762511510589227394_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ellie Young
> Events Manager
> Wikimedia Foundation
> eyoung@wikimedia.org
> c. 510 701 8649 <(510)%20701-8649>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>

Hello all,

While preparing the report for the last Wikimedia Conference (which we will
publish on Friday), Daniela Gentner, our logistics coordinator, has written
a detailed learning pattern about how to support participants in getting a
(German) Schengen visa for the Wikimedia Conference. While it is certainly
focused on German processes, many steps and tips are applicable by any
organizer in any country.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns/Timing,_Communication,_Preparation:_How_to_support_your_event_participants_in_the_best_way_to_get_a_Schengen_Visa

Maybe this is could be a good start to collect resources and material
around this topic for future events.

Happy reading & sharing,
Cornelius


On 27 June 2017 at 02:49, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:

> The creation of one or more learning patterns could be good here. Please
> see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns.
>
> Pine
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Ellie Young <eyoung@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
>> I think the centralized place on meta is a great idea so we could put
>> tips, samples, and maybe even an 'advice line' for people who might be able
>> to help someone in a particular region. If someone wants to start this
>> I'd be happy to add, edit, etc.
>>
>> Ellie
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 5:47 AM, Amir Ladsgroup <ladsgroup@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one
>>> Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other
>>> because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I
>>> want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this
>>> case:
>>>
>>> - Participants:
>>> -- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you
>>> should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of
>>> people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help.
>>> This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I
>>> remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local
>>> chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed
>>> it.
>>> -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of
>>> my friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the
>>> embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got
>>> the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to
>>> the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and
>>> Italy for 8 days to make things legal)
>>> -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention
>>> Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have
>>> positive feelings.
>>> -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this
>>> year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to
>>> travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event
>>> but let's hope to meet them soon.
>>>
>>> -WMF:
>>> -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal,
>>> support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going
>>> to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said
>>> and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place
>>> (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa
>>> documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends
>>> need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets
>>> rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of
>>> people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others.
>>> -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one
>>> multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is
>>> very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way
>>> easier.
>>>
>>> Local chapters:
>>> -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process
>>> of visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle
>>> it perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but
>>> sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which
>>> increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They
>>> usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs
>>> to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.
>>>
>>> Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli <
>>> ilario.valdelli@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen <gabriel@thullen.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have a few comments:
>>>>> 1)
>>>>> We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
>>>>> Jean-Philippe said:
>>>>> "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request
>>>>> to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
>>>>> chapter in doing this."
>>>>> The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being
>>>>> said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid
>>>>> was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not
>>>>> acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe
>>>>> that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania
>>>>> event.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues
>>>> with the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including
>>>> yours truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think
>>>> everyone can agree how important it is for having the local chapters
>>>> involved--- most recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South
>>>> Africa coming up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ellie,
>>>> This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a
>>>> decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance,
>>>> but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature
>>>> organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary"
>>>> committee.
>>>>
>>>> A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a
>>>> commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and
>>>> perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).
>>>>
>>>> Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature*
>>>> local organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.
>>>>
>>>> But at this point is also interesting to know how big may be the impact
>>>> on a chapter. The organization of an event like Wikimania is something
>>>> fascinating, but at the same time it's more than a "stress test" for a
>>>> chapter.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ilario Valdelli
>>>> Wikimedia CH
>>>> Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
>>>> Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
>>>> Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
>>>> Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
>>>> Tel: +41764821371 <+41%2076%20482%2013%2071>http://www.wikimedia.ch
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Mail
>>>> priva di virus. www.avast.com
>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>>>> <#m_1267552695921599484_m_6880580939877686418_m_-1851108117246999399_m_3850020966839007458_m_-2762511510589227394_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ellie Young
>> Events Manager
>> Wikimedia Foundation
>> eyoung@wikimedia.org
>> c. 510 701 8649 <(510)%20701-8649>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>


--
Cornelius Kibelka
Program and Engagement Coordinator (PEC)
for the Wikimedia Conference

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
http://wikimedia.de

Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
http://spenden.wikimedia.de/

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207

today I found out another wikimedian from Iraq was also rejected because of
"purpose of trip", I highly believe this stem from our invitation letter
which is from WFM not a local entity. why should an American foundation
invite someone to Canada ?
it would be great if others could update us about their visa situation

Mardetanha

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Cornelius Kibelka <
cornelius.kibelka@wikimedia.de> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> While preparing the report for the last Wikimedia Conference (which we
> will publish on Friday), Daniela Gentner, our logistics coordinator, has
> written a detailed learning pattern about how to support participants in
> getting a (German) Schengen visa for the Wikimedia Conference. While it is
> certainly focused on German processes, many steps and tips are applicable
> by any organizer in any country.
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns/Timing,
> _Communication,_Preparation:_How_to_support_your_event_
> participants_in_the_best_way_to_get_a_Schengen_Visa
>
> Maybe this is could be a good start to collect resources and material
> around this topic for future events.
>
> Happy reading & sharing,
> Cornelius
>
>
> On 27 June 2017 at 02:49, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The creation of one or more learning patterns could be good here. Please
>> see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns.
>>
>> Pine
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Ellie Young <eyoung@wikimedia.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think the centralized place on meta is a great idea so we could put
>>> tips, samples, and maybe even an 'advice line' for people who might be able
>>> to help someone in a particular region. If someone wants to start this
>>> I'd be happy to add, edit, etc.
>>>
>>> Ellie
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 5:47 AM, Amir Ladsgroup <ladsgroup@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one
>>>> Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other
>>>> because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I
>>>> want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this
>>>> case:
>>>>
>>>> - Participants:
>>>> -- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you
>>>> should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of
>>>> people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help.
>>>> This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I
>>>> remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local
>>>> chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed
>>>> it.
>>>> -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of
>>>> my friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the
>>>> embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got
>>>> the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to
>>>> the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and
>>>> Italy for 8 days to make things legal)
>>>> -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention
>>>> Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have
>>>> positive feelings.
>>>> -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this
>>>> year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to
>>>> travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event
>>>> but let's hope to meet them soon.
>>>>
>>>> -WMF:
>>>> -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal,
>>>> support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going
>>>> to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said
>>>> and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place
>>>> (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa
>>>> documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends
>>>> need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets
>>>> rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of
>>>> people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others.
>>>> -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one
>>>> multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is
>>>> very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way
>>>> easier.
>>>>
>>>> Local chapters:
>>>> -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process
>>>> of visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle
>>>> it perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but
>>>> sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which
>>>> increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They
>>>> usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs
>>>> to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.
>>>>
>>>> Best
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli <
>>>> ilario.valdelli@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen <gabriel@thullen.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a few comments:
>>>>>> 1)
>>>>>> We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
>>>>>> Jean-Philippe said:
>>>>>> "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the
>>>>>> request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate
>>>>>> with the chapter in doing this."
>>>>>> The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being
>>>>>> said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid
>>>>>> was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not
>>>>>> acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe
>>>>>> that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania
>>>>>> event.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ??Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues
>>>>> with the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including
>>>>> yours truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think
>>>>> everyone can agree how important it is for having the local chapters
>>>>> involved--- most recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South
>>>>> Africa coming up.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Ellie,
>>>>> This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a
>>>>> decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance,
>>>>> but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature
>>>>> organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary"
>>>>> committee.
>>>>>
>>>>> A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a
>>>>> commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and
>>>>> perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).
>>>>>
>>>>> Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature*
>>>>> local organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.
>>>>>
>>>>> But at this point is also interesting to know how big may be the
>>>>> impact on a chapter. The organization of an event like Wikimania is
>>>>> something fascinating, but at the same time it's more than a "stress test"
>>>>> for a chapter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ilario Valdelli
>>>>> Wikimedia CH
>>>>> Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
>>>>> Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
>>>>> Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
>>>>> Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
>>>>> Tel: +41764821371 <+41%2076%20482%2013%2071>http://www.wikimedia.ch
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Mail
>>>>> priva di virus. www.avast.com
>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>>>>> <#m_185410550034025492_m_1267552695921599484_m_6880580939877686418_m_-1851108117246999399_m_3850020966839007458_m_-2762511510589227394_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ellie Young
>>> Events Manager
>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>> eyoung@wikimedia.org
>>> c. 510 701 8649 <(510)%20701-8649>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Cornelius Kibelka
> Program and Engagement Coordinator (PEC)
> for the Wikimedia Conference
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> http://wikimedia.de
>
> Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
> Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
> der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
> Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>

On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal
<bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:

> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global
> south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from
> these countries.

Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:

“Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our
greatest pride is
that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good
life and be part
of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what
religion you practice,
or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”

http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/selected-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national-canada-day-celebrations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

Hello all,

I am from Armenia and I applid for a temporary Canadian visa on May 8, 2017
from the Canada visa application centre (CVAC) in Armenia. My documents
were transferred from CVAC in Armenia to Embassy of Canada to Moscow on May
15, 2017. On http://www.cic.gc.ca page it says that documents for citizens
of Armenia can be viewed within 2 weeks (without transfer time). It's
already 8 weeks my documents are under review. Because of this uncertain
delay I lost my trip to participate in WikiWomen Camp. On June 12, 2017 I
wrote a letter to immagration office to Moscow and have this reply: Your
application is under review. Processing times can take longer when
verifications are needed and no specific time for completion can be
confirmed. You will be notified once a decision is made.

On May 27, I wrote them telling that scholarship applicatnts visa deadline
is near and again got the same answer back. So from May 8 up to now the
Canadian Moscow visa office is reviewing my docs.


On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Andy Mabbett <andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk>
wrote:

> On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal
> <bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global
> > south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies
> from
> > these countries.
>
> Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:
>
> “Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our
> greatest pride is
> that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good
> life and be part
> of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what
> religion you practice,
> or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”
>
> http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/
> selected-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national-
> canada-day-celebrations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>



--

Best Regards
Armine Aghayan

Wikipedia Editor
Leading Human Resourses specialist at the
Ministry of Transport, Communication and Informational Technologies of RA

+374 77209096 <+374%2077%20209096>

+374 43053700 <+374%2043%20053700>


arminehaghayan@gmail.com

armine.aghayan@mtcit.am

armine.aghayan@wikimedia.am

Wow so sorry to read this, Armine! If the pillars of our community are
having their visas "rejected-by-filing-in-Moscow" then this is surely
newsworthy? Maybe someone can run a piece on this problem? This case in
particular is pretty shocking to me.

On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Armine Aghayan <arminehaghayan@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I am from Armenia and I applid for a temporary Canadian visa on May 8,
> 2017 from the Canada visa application centre (CVAC) in Armenia. My
> documents were transferred from CVAC in Armenia to Embassy of Canada to
> Moscow on May 15, 2017. On http://www.cic.gc.ca page it says that
> documents for citizens of Armenia can be viewed within 2 weeks (without
> transfer time). It's already 8 weeks my documents are under review.
> Because of this uncertain delay I lost my trip to participate in WikiWomen
> Camp. On June 12, 2017 I wrote a letter to immagration office to Moscow and
> have this reply: Your application is under review. Processing times can
> take longer when verifications are needed and no specific time for
> completion can be confirmed. You will be notified once a decision is
> made.
>
> On May 27, I wrote them telling that scholarship applicatnts visa deadline
> is near and again got the same answer back. So from May 8 up to now the
> Canadian Moscow visa office is reviewing my docs.
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Andy Mabbett <andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal
>> <bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
>> global
>> > south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies
>> from
>> > these countries.
>>
>> Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:
>>
>> “Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our
>> greatest pride is
>> that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good
>> life and be part
>> of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what
>> religion you practice,
>> or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”
>>
>> http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/select
>> ed-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national-canada-day-
>> celebrations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962
>>
>> --
>> Andy Mabbett
>> @pigsonthewing
>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Best Regards
> Armine Aghayan
>
> Wikipedia Editor
> Leading Human Resourses specialist at the
> Ministry of Transport, Communication and Informational Technologies of RA
>
> +374 77209096 <+374%2077%20209096>
>
> +374 43053700 <+374%2043%20053700>
>
>
> arminehaghayan@gmail.com
>
> armine.aghayan@mtcit.am
>
> armine.aghayan@wikimedia.am
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>

?Canadian visas are kinda different from rest of the world, Iran,
Azerbaijan and Georgia and turkey are considered in Visa center in Ankara.
Most Arabic countries are being considered in Amman Jordan.
some Caucasian are being considered in Moscow
and in Europe most are in VAC office in Paris
?.
so depending on your country of origin your document might be reviewed and
sent to other countries, another strange point is throughout the process,
they keep your passport, so it means that for unclear time-frame you can
not make any travels.



Mardetanha

On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com> wrote:

> Wow so sorry to read this, Armine! If the pillars of our community are
> having their visas "rejected-by-filing-in-Moscow" then this is surely
> newsworthy? Maybe someone can run a piece on this problem? This case in
> particular is pretty shocking to me.
>
> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Armine Aghayan <arminehaghayan@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am from Armenia and I applid for a temporary Canadian visa on May 8,
>> 2017 from the Canada visa application centre (CVAC) in Armenia. My
>> documents were transferred from CVAC in Armenia to Embassy of Canada to
>> Moscow on May 15, 2017. On http://www.cic.gc.ca page it says that
>> documents for citizens of Armenia can be viewed within 2 weeks (without
>> transfer time). It's already 8 weeks my documents are under review.
>> Because of this uncertain delay I lost my trip to participate in WikiWomen
>> Camp. On June 12, 2017 I wrote a letter to immagration office to Moscow and
>> have this reply: Your application is under review. Processing times
>> can take longer when verifications are needed and no specific time for
>> completion can be confirmed. You will be notified once a decision is
>> made.
>>
>> On May 27, I wrote them telling that scholarship applicatnts visa
>> deadline is near and again got the same answer back. So from May 8 up to
>> now the Canadian Moscow visa office is reviewing my docs.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Andy Mabbett <andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal
>>> <bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
>>> global
>>> > south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies
>>> from
>>> > these countries.
>>>
>>> Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:
>>>
>>> “Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our
>>> greatest pride is
>>> that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good
>>> life and be part
>>> of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what
>>> religion you practice,
>>> or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”
>>>
>>> http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/select
>>> ed-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national-canada-day-celeb
>>> rations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andy Mabbett
>>> @pigsonthewing
>>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Armine Aghayan
>>
>> Wikipedia Editor
>> Leading Human Resourses specialist at the
>> Ministry of Transport, Communication and Informational Technologies of RA
>>
>> +374 77209096 <+374%2077%20209096>
>>
>> +374 43053700 <+374%2043%20053700>
>>
>>
>> arminehaghayan@gmail.com
>>
>> armine.aghayan@mtcit.am
>>
>> armine.aghayan@wikimedia.am
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>

That makes it sound even worse (creepy even, given the 8 weeks and counting
time frame)

On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 9:13 AM, Mardetanha <mardetanha.wiki@gmail.com>
wrote:

> ?Canadian visas are kinda different from rest of the world, Iran,
> Azerbaijan and Georgia and turkey are considered in Visa center in Ankara.
> Most Arabic countries are being considered in Amman Jordan.
> some Caucasian are being considered in Moscow
> and in Europe most are in VAC office in Paris
> ?.
> so depending on your country of origin your document might be reviewed and
> sent to other countries, another strange point is throughout the process,
> they keep your passport, so it means that for unclear time-frame you can
> not make any travels.
>
>
>
> Mardetanha
>
> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Wow so sorry to read this, Armine! If the pillars of our community are
>> having their visas "rejected-by-filing-in-Moscow" then this is surely
>> newsworthy? Maybe someone can run a piece on this problem? This case in
>> particular is pretty shocking to me.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Armine Aghayan <arminehaghayan@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am from Armenia and I applid for a temporary Canadian visa on May 8,
>>> 2017 from the Canada visa application centre (CVAC) in Armenia. My
>>> documents were transferred from CVAC in Armenia to Embassy of Canada to
>>> Moscow on May 15, 2017. On http://www.cic.gc.ca page it says that
>>> documents for citizens of Armenia can be viewed within 2 weeks (without
>>> transfer time). It's already 8 weeks my documents are under review.
>>> Because of this uncertain delay I lost my trip to participate in WikiWomen
>>> Camp. On June 12, 2017 I wrote a letter to immagration office to Moscow and
>>> have this reply: Your application is under review. Processing times
>>> can take longer when verifications are needed and no specific time for
>>> completion can be confirmed. You will be notified once a decision is
>>> made.
>>>
>>> On May 27, I wrote them telling that scholarship applicatnts visa
>>> deadline is near and again got the same answer back. So from May 8 up to
>>> now the Canadian Moscow visa office is reviewing my docs.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Andy Mabbett <andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal
>>>> <bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
>>>> global
>>>> > south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian
>>>> embassies from
>>>> > these countries.
>>>>
>>>> Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:
>>>>
>>>> “Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our
>>>> greatest pride is
>>>> that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good
>>>> life and be part
>>>> of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what
>>>> religion you practice,
>>>> or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”
>>>>
>>>> http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/select
>>>> ed-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national-canada-day-celeb
>>>> rations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Andy Mabbett
>>>> @pigsonthewing
>>>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>> Armine Aghayan
>>>
>>> Wikipedia Editor
>>> Leading Human Resourses specialist at the
>>> Ministry of Transport, Communication and Informational Technologies of RA
>>>
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>>>
>>> +374 43053700 <+374%2043%20053700>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>> armine.aghayan@mtcit.am
>>>
>>> armine.aghayan@wikimedia.am
>>>
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2017-06-22 13:57 GMT+03:00 Lodewijk <lodewijk@effeietsanders.org>:
>
> I wonder, do we keep track of the number of visa rejections year over
year, so that we know in comparison?
>
> There are of course many factors that go into venue selection - one of
them is visa (another is security, political stability etc). The countries
that I remember going relatively smoothly were the ones where the
organizers sought a collaboration with the foreign affairs of their
country, to get some help. I don't know if Wikimedia Canada was able to
accomplish that. But it does mean that a general bad reputation is not
necessarily a bad rejection rate for this particular conference. (if memory
serves me well, WMIL did a great job in this respect in 2011, for example)
>

Heh, I'm not sure whether it was positive or negative :)

Jokes aside, this involved A LOT of work from the Haifa organizing team.
Many months before the event Wikimedia Israel people (not me) contacted the
Ministry of Foreign Affairs, explained to them what kind of event this is,
and what kind of people come to it. The Ministry contacts were friendly and
cooperative and suggested a process and an invitation letter.

Then, when the actual event was coming closer (May–June or so), yours truly
spent about two weeks doing nothing but sleeping, eating, and helping
hundreds of people get visas. Luckily, I was employed very part-time back
then and I could easily afford to volunteer for this. I mostly followed the
process that the ministry suggested, but I also remember very-late-night
Skype calls with participants from faraway timezones who had trouble
filling forms (different forms in each consulate!) and writing special
invitation letters for participants that represents highly respected
international organizations. Days before the event I remember more
surprising international phone calls from my country's representatives in
consulates, airports, and border-crossings around the world—sometimes
asking about Wikipedians I knew in person, and sometimes about people whom
I had to look up in lists of participants and verify that they're legit (in
case you're wondering, they all were).

As far as _I_ know, there were two rejections in 2011, but there may have
been others I don't know about.

I've been telling this story every time I had a chance to talk to Wikimania
organizers after 2011. Visa rejections come up every year at least since
2010, the year I started following Wikimania. The current version of the
Wikimania Handbook [1] also refers to this: "Visa assistance—This is
probably one of the most time-consuming and complicated thing to
consider... Writing these letters is a full-time job". While writing this
email I added: "... a full-time job for about two weeks or even more", and
I moved the suggested time for this to April–May instead of May–June.

The Wikimania Handbook is awesome, and it's written based on real
experience—future organizers should take it seriously. (I'm _not_ implying
that the 2017 organizers didn't take it seriously. I acknowledge that it's
complicated and that every country is different.)

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Handbook

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · ?????? ????????? ??????????
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
?“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore?

Sadly not just Canada.

I know the UK keeps the passport of applicants while they process the visa, and Georgians applying for a UK visa will have that processed in Ankara. Though the 8 weeks is slow for a visitor visa, not much chance to attend a funeral with that.

On a more practical note, this is a recurring problem - we certainly had issues in London and I know there have been other venues where there have been problems. Would it be possible to find some venues that are generally open for visitors and rotate Wikimania between them? Or at worst rotate Wikimania between closed and open countries. We are a global movement and if some of us have visa issues it should be are a problem for all of us.



Regards

Jonathan


> On 2 Jul 2017, at 08:13, Mardetanha <mardetanha.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?Canadian visas are kinda different from rest of the world, Iran, Azerbaijan and Georgia and turkey are considered in Visa center in Ankara.
> Most Arabic countries are being considered in Amman Jordan.
> some Caucasian are being considered in Moscow
> and in Europe most are in VAC office in Paris?.
> so depending on your country of origin your document might be reviewed and sent to other countries, another strange point is throughout the process, they keep your passport, so it means that for unclear time-frame you can not make any travels.
>
>
>
> Mardetanha
>
>> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Wow so sorry to read this, Armine! If the pillars of our community are having their visas "rejected-by-filing-in-Moscow" then this is surely newsworthy? Maybe someone can run a piece on this problem? This case in particular is pretty shocking to me.
>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Armine Aghayan <arminehaghayan@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am from Armenia and I applid for a temporary Canadian visa on May 8, 2017 from the Canada visa application centre (CVAC) in Armenia. My documents were transferred from CVAC in Armenia to Embassy of Canada to Moscow on May 15, 2017. On http://www.cic.gc.ca page it says that documents for citizens of Armenia can be viewed within 2 weeks (without transfer time). It's already 8 weeks my documents are under review. Because of this uncertain delay I lost my trip to participate in WikiWomen Camp. On June 12, 2017 I wrote a letter to immagration office to Moscow and have this reply: Your application is under review. Processing times can take longer when verifications are needed and no specific time for completion can be confirmed. You will be notified once a decision is made.
>>>
>>> On May 27, I wrote them telling that scholarship applicatnts visa deadline is near and again got the same answer back. So from May 8 up to now the Canadian Moscow visa office is reviewing my docs.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Andy Mabbett <andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal
>>>> <bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global
>>>> > south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from
>>>> > these countries.
>>>>
>>>> Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:
>>>>
>>>> “Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our
>>>> greatest pride is
>>>> that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good
>>>> life and be part
>>>> of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what
>>>> religion you practice,
>>>> or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”
>>>>
>>>> http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/selected-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national-canada-day-celebrations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Andy Mabbett
>>>> @pigsonthewing
>>>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>> Armine Aghayan
>>>
>>> Wikipedia Editor
>>> Leading Human Resourses specialist at the
>>> Ministry of Transport, Communication and Informational Technologies of RA
>>>
>>> +374 77209096
>>>
>>> +374 43053700
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> arminehaghayan@gmail.com
>>>
>>> armine.aghayan@mtcit.am
>>>
>>> armine.aghayan@wikimedia.am
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
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