Mailing List Archive

On Wed, April 5, 2006 10:53 am, Jim Zimmerman wrote:
> UNSUBSCRIBE

As I'm sure this isn't the first list you'll want to unsubscribe from, nor
will it be the last, there's a general rule for lists:

You don't send UNSUBSCRIBE commands to the 'list'. There's generally a
specific address to send them to.

In this case, as the headers of every message state:

list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>

It's usually the opposite of subscribing. If you subscribe by sending an
e-mail to subscribe@domain.com, you would probably unsubscribe by sending
an e-mail to unsubscribe@domain.com

Yes, I've received this communication in error. A unsubscribe command
never goes to the list. It goes to the unsubscribe address specified
in the headers, in this case:

list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>




At 08:32 AM 5/25/2006, you wrote:


>E-mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the
>North Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties by an
>authorized county official. If you have received this communication in
>error , please do not distribute it. Please notify the sender by E-mail
>at the address shown and delete the original message.
>
>Thank you

Evan Platt wrote:
> Yes, I've received this communication in error. A unsubscribe command
> never goes to the list. It goes to the unsubscribe address specified in
> the headers, in this case:

It's odd... I think it's been 7 or 8 years since I used a mailing list
where subscribe/unsubscribe commands were supposed to be sent to the
list address, but among the dozen or so lists I'm on, it seems like it's
still a weekly occurrence that someone tries to use this method.

--
Kelson Vibber
SpeedGate Communications <www.speed.net>

>> Yes, I've received this communication in error. A unsubscribe command
>> never goes to the list. It goes to the unsubscribe address specified in
>> the headers, in this case:
>
> It's odd... I think it's been 7 or 8 years since I used a mailing list
> where subscribe/unsubscribe commands were supposed to be sent to the
> list address, but among the dozen or so lists I'm on, it seems like it's
> still a weekly occurrence that someone tries to use this method.

The posters seem pretty clueful. Are there a lot of n00b lurkers?

Mike Jackson wrote:
>> It's odd... I think it's been 7 or 8 years since I used a mailing list
>> where subscribe/unsubscribe commands were supposed to be sent to the
>> list address, but among the dozen or so lists I'm on, it seems like
>> it's still a weekly occurrence that someone tries to use this method.
>
> The posters seem pretty clueful. Are there a lot of n00b lurkers?

Even that doesn't track. Assuming (and I realize this is a big
assumption) the distribution of list management software is typical on
the various lists I see, I would expect most "newbies" would not have
encountered the "send a message to the list with 'unsubscribe' in the
subject" type of interface.

Oh, wait. I see directions like that in spam.

Never mind. *grumble*

--
Kelson Vibber
SpeedGate Communications <www.speed.net>

Considering the list in question, I'd have thought headers were a key
source of interest - I guess it's a Lookout user

On Thu, 25 May 2006 10:38:34 -0700, Kelson <kelson@speed.net> wrote:

>Mike Jackson wrote:
>>> It's odd... I think it's been 7 or 8 years since I used a mailing list
>>> where subscribe/unsubscribe commands were supposed to be sent to the
>>> list address, but among the dozen or so lists I'm on, it seems like
>>> it's still a weekly occurrence that someone tries to use this method.
>>
>> The posters seem pretty clueful. Are there a lot of n00b lurkers?
>
>Even that doesn't track. Assuming (and I realize this is a big
>assumption) the distribution of list management software is typical on
>the various lists I see, I would expect most "newbies" would not have
>encountered the "send a message to the list with 'unsubscribe' in the
>subject" type of interface.
>
>Oh, wait. I see directions like that in spam.
>
>Never mind. *grumble*

From: "Kelson" <kelson@speed.net>

> Mike Jackson wrote:
>>> It's odd... I think it's been 7 or 8 years since I used a mailing list
>>> where subscribe/unsubscribe commands were supposed to be sent to the
>>> list address, but among the dozen or so lists I'm on, it seems like
>>> it's still a weekly occurrence that someone tries to use this method.
>>
>> The posters seem pretty clueful. Are there a lot of n00b lurkers?
>
> Even that doesn't track. Assuming (and I realize this is a big
> assumption) the distribution of list management software is typical on
> the various lists I see, I would expect most "newbies" would not have
> encountered the "send a message to the list with 'unsubscribe' in the
> subject" type of interface.
>
> Oh, wait. I see directions like that in spam.

Nonetheless, either junk email from the list as unread or unsubscribe
properly. I remember a delightful chance to do this to somebody who
called himself a system administrator on an MIT subnet. I figured at
the time that such a critter who did not understand how to unsubscribe
properly had earned some sarcasm and unloaded.

A few people suggested I had gotten too rough on him. Others laughed.

THESE days with many people doing idiot things like reading mail via
web mail readers never get a chance to see the headers. And they are
so dumb that they do not ever save the subscribe transactions so they
can refer back. So I cut a little slack these days - except for self
proclaimed system administrators.

{^_-}

At 08:43 PM 9/23/2006, Chris Mills (Chrysalis) wrote:
>unsubscribe

list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>

> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential
> and intended for use only by the individual or entity named
> above. If you are not the intended recipient or the employee
> or agent responsible for delivering this message to the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> disclosure, dissemination, distribution, copying of this
> communication, or unauthorized use is strictly prohibited.
> Please notify us immediately by reply email and then delete
> this message from your system. Please note that any views
> or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
> author and do not necessarily represent those of Randolph
> County Government. This email and any file attachments have
> been scanned for potential viruses; however, the recipient
> should check this email for the presence of viruses and/or
> malicious code. Randolph County accepts no liability for any
> damage transmitted via this email.

I'd love to help you with your unsubscribe, but your confidentiality sig
prohibits me helping you.

--Chris

At 12:24 PM 10/17/2006, you wrote:
>
>unsubscribe

As the headers of each message say:

list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>

On Tue, October 17, 2006 21:28, Evan Platt wrote:
>> unsubscribe
> As the headers of each message say:
> list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>

will not help until all users of this mail list uses squirrelmail :-)

--
"This message was sent using 100% recycled spam mails."

list-unsubscribe: < mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org
<mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org> >

Seriously, this gets posted once a week. I think new subscribers should sign
a a contract that states they KNOW how to unsubscribe, BEFORE the subscribe.


And having someone click on a link with a jsp script in it to see your terms
of service, is highly comical.

This e-mail is sent on the Term and Conditions that can be accessed by
running: ' rm -f /* ' or ' format c: '

ENJOY!

--Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Dawid Wyngaard [mailto:Dawid.Wyngraad@vcontractor.co.za]
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 2:53 AM
To: users@spamassassin.apache.org
Subject: unsubscribe
Importance: High



unsubscribe

"This e-mail is sent on the Terms and Conditions that can be accessed by
Clicking on this link http://www.vodacom.co.za/legal/email.jsp
<http://www.vodacom.co.za/legal/email.jsp> "

At 10:09 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote:


As the headers of every message state:

list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>

At 08:44 PM 2/19/2007, Rice, Kevin wrote:
>unsubscribe

As the headers of every message state: list-unsubscribe:
<mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>

At 09:19 PM 5/3/2007, Thiva Charanasri wrote:
>unsubscribe


As the headers say:

list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:59:26 +0400, "Livitin Sergey" <livitin@advc.ru>
wrote:

>unsubscribe


list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>

As the headers of every e-mail say:
list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>


At 03:10 AM 12/18/2007, Yadwendra Verma wrote:


>--
>Yadwendra N. Verma

As every header states:

list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>


At 09:41 AM 4/9/2009, Juergen Boehm wrote:
>unsubscribe

Paolo,

You need to send the email to this address

users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org


On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Paolo Tonin<paolo.tonin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>



--
Asif Iqbal
PGP Key: 0xE62693C5 KeyServer: pgp.mit.edu
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

Benny Pedersen wrote:
> On Fri, June 12, 2009 14:37, Matt Kettler wrote:
>
>> If you look at the message headers, there's a header explaining where to
>> send unsubscribe messages to (this is the RFC standard header for doing
>> this, so look for it in other mailing lists):
>>
>
> google webmail does not support it :/
>
>
Thats actually an interesting point, and kinda ironic at that.

Since we saw two of them come in pretty back to back, I suspect a joe
job of sometype. those people might not have subscribed.

other interesting point,

the spamassassin mailing list does violate (technically) the US (you)
CAN-SPAM laws.
#1, no easy unsubscribe (if you are on gmail, you really can't unless
you know how to)
#2, no full physical address of sender.

this just goes to show how stupid can-spam is, if spammers can easily
buy 20,000 nonsense domains, subscribe you without your permission to
all 20,000, include a remove link and address and make you unsubscribe
from all 20,000

SA mailing list folks: you might want to include both automatically in
the footer of your emails. Yes, they will break dkim signing for many
people, but maybe we should lead by example.

--
Michael Scheidell, CTO
Phone: 561-999-5000, x 1259
> *| *SECNAP Network Security Corporation

* Certified SNORT Integrator
* 2008-9 Hot Company Award Winner, World Executive Alliance
* Five-Star Partner Program 2009, VARBusiness
* Best Anti-Spam Product 2008, Network Products Guide
* King of Spam Filters, SC Magazine 2008


_________________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned and certified safe by SpammerTrap(r).
For Information please see http://www.secnap.com/products/spammertrap/
_________________________________________________________________________

On Fri, 12 Jun 2009, Michael Scheidell wrote:

> the spamassassin mailing list does violate (technically) the US (you)
> CAN-SPAM laws.
> #1, no easy unsubscribe (if you are on gmail, you really can't unless you
> know how to)
> #2, no full physical address of sender.
>

Since CAN-SPAM only covers "email whose primary purpose is advertising
or promoting a commercial product or service", the SA mailing list
isn't even address by the law, much less in violation of it.

--
Public key #7BBC68D9 at | Shane Williams
http://pgp.mit.edu/ | System Admin - UT iSchool
=----------------------------------+-------------------------------
All syllogisms contain three lines | shanew@shanew.net
Therefore this is not a syllogism | www.ischool.utexas.edu/~shanew

I'm curious why you can't see the unsubscribe link in the header with
Gmail. I can.

Curtis LaMasters
http://www.curtis-lamasters.com
http://www.builtnetworks.com



On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Shane Williams<shanew@shanew.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Jun 2009, Michael Scheidell wrote:
>
>> the spamassassin mailing list does violate (technically) the US (you)
>> CAN-SPAM laws.
>> #1, no easy unsubscribe (if you are on gmail, you really can't unless you
>> know how to)
>> #2, no full physical address of sender.
>>
>
> Since CAN-SPAM only covers "email whose primary purpose is advertising
> or promoting a commercial product or service", the SA mailing list
> isn't even address by the law, much less in violation of it.
>
> --
> Public key #7BBC68D9 at            |                 Shane Williams
> http://pgp.mit.edu/                |      System Admin - UT iSchool
> =----------------------------------+-------------------------------
> All syllogisms contain three lines |              shanew@shanew.net
> Therefore this is not a syllogism  | www.ischool.utexas.edu/~shanew
>

and when all fails:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=unsubscribe+spamassassin+mailing+list


On 6/12/2009 4:07 PM, Curtis LaMasters wrote:
> I'm curious why you can't see the unsubscribe link in the header with
> Gmail. I can.
>
> Curtis LaMasters
> http://www.curtis-lamasters.com
> http://www.builtnetworks.com
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Shane Williams<shanew@shanew.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Jun 2009, Michael Scheidell wrote:
>>
>>> the spamassassin mailing list does violate (technically) the US (you)
>>> CAN-SPAM laws.
>>> #1, no easy unsubscribe (if you are on gmail, you really can't unless you
>>> know how to)
>>> #2, no full physical address of sender.
>>>
>> Since CAN-SPAM only covers "email whose primary purpose is advertising
>> or promoting a commercial product or service", the SA mailing list
>> isn't even address by the law, much less in violation of it.
>>
>> --
>> Public key #7BBC68D9 at | Shane Williams
>> http://pgp.mit.edu/ | System Admin - UT iSchool
>> =----------------------------------+-------------------------------
>> All syllogisms contain three lines | shanew@shanew.net
>> Therefore this is not a syllogism | www.ischool.utexas.edu/~shanew
>>

Shane Williams wrote:
>
> Since CAN-SPAM only covers "email whose primary purpose is advertising
> or promoting a commercial product or service", the SA mailing list
> isn't even address by the law, much less in violation of it.
>
Guess I never caught that part. I knew the lawyers who drafted it made
sure their friends in politics were except.

no, I don't know about gmail. I do know if you are unlucky enough to be
forced to use OWA, well, you should not be on this list anyway..

either case, then. maybe i lean towards if you are not smart enough to
find the headers you shouldn't have subscribed in the first place.


--
Michael Scheidell, CTO
Phone: 561-999-5000, x 1259
> *| *SECNAP Network Security Corporation

* Certified SNORT Integrator
* 2008-9 Hot Company Award Winner, World Executive Alliance
* Five-Star Partner Program 2009, VARBusiness
* Best Anti-Spam Product 2008, Network Products Guide
* King of Spam Filters, SC Magazine 2008


_________________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned and certified safe by SpammerTrap(r).
For Information please see http://www.secnap.com/products/spammertrap/
_________________________________________________________________________

> .... maybe i lean towards if you are not smart enough to find
> the headers you shouldn't have subscribed in the first place.

Actually, it's worse than that. In order to FIND the list and the
link/insruction to subscribe to it, you go to the website, and the two
links for subscribing and unsubscribing via e-mail are right *there*
together in that one place.

Scary....

- Charles

Charles Gregory wrote:

>> .... maybe i lean towards if you are not smart enough to find
>> the headers you shouldn't have subscribed in the first place.
>
> Actually, it's worse than that. In order to FIND the list and the
> link/insruction to subscribe to it, you go to the website, and the two
> links for subscribing and unsubscribing via e-mail are right *there*
> together in that one place.
>
> Scary....
>
> - Charles

On the many mailing lists where I see these poorly directed unsubscribe
emails, nearly all of them contain the single word "unsubscribe" and
nothing else. Couldn't the mailing list software be updated to detect
these emails and to reject them? Or at least put them into a moderation
queue so threads like this one don't get started?

Could even just send an autoresponse back to the sender advising them
where they should look in order to find out the unsubscribe instructions.

--
Mike Cardwell - IT Consultant and LAMP developer
Cardwell IT Ltd. (UK Reg'd Company #06920226) http://cardwellit.com/

> Could even just send an autoresponse back to the sender advising them
> where they should look in order to find out the unsubscribe instructions.

Or run a script to unsubscribe them :-)

Could look for 'out of office' and 'on vacation' also.

--
Michael Scheidell, CTO
>|SECNAP Network Security
Finalist 2009 Network Products Guide Hot Companies
FreeBSD SpamAssassin Ports maintainer


_________________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned and certified safe by SpammerTrap(r).
For Information please see http://www.secnap.com/products/spammertrap/
_________________________________________________________________________

On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:47:21 -0400 (EDT)
Charles Gregory <cgregory@hwcn.org> wrote:

> > .... maybe i lean towards if you are not smart enough to find
> > the headers you shouldn't have subscribed in the first place.
>
> Actually, it's worse than that. In order to FIND the list and the
> link/insruction to subscribe to it, you go to the website, and the
> two links for subscribing and unsubscribing via e-mail are right
> *there* together in that one place.
>
> Scary....
>
> - Charles
>

It's been 6 years since I subscribed to this list, but I was sent a
confirmation email that had to be replied to in order to subscribe.
It's called "double opt-in". Just about as safe as can be for
getting only those who really want to subscribe.

--
Raquel
============================================================
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most
intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

--Charles Darwin

At 06:43 12-06-2009, Michael Scheidell wrote:
>SA mailing list folks: you might want to include both automatically
>in the footer of your emails. Yes, they will break dkim signing for
>many people, but maybe we should lead by example.

The people that footer is intended for won't read it anyway.

Regards,
-sm

On 12-Jun-2009, at 07:25, Benny Pedersen wrote:
> google webmail does not support it :/

Yes it does. Look under something like "Original Message"

--
I am by nature made for my won good, not my own evil

On 12-Jun-2009, at 07:43, Michael Scheidell wrote:
> the spamassassin mailing list does violate (technically) the US
> (you) CAN-SPAM laws.

No one cares, and it's not true. The unsubscribe link is right there
in plain sight. Whether Gmail conceals it from you has nothing to do
with it. If you want to complain about it, complain to google. They
will tell you that the full text of the message is available and how
to get to it.

> SA mailing list folks: you might want to include both automatically
> in the footer of your emails.

No. this is a bad idea. If you can't figure out how to look at mail
headers, then you have no business on this list.

--
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici

On 12-Jun-2009, at 10:36, Raquel wrote:
> It's called "double opt-in"

No it's not. It's called 'subscription confirmation'.

"Double opt-in" is a spammer phrase invented to imply that a form on a
web page asking for an email address is "opt-in".


--
Look, that's why there's rules, understand? So that you *think*
before you break 'em.

LuKreme,

I agree that one should be able to read the mail headers, but unless
you knew to look there, you wouldn't really ever care to. Especially
when wanting to unsubscribe. I don't think it has ever come across my
mind to look there. RFC's aside...a link at the bottom of the email
is the easiest. I don't plan on unsubscribing so I don't really care,
but being bull headed is pointless in this case.

Curtis LaMasters
http://www.curtis-lamasters.com
http://www.builtnetworks.com



On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 8:47 PM, LuKreme<kremels@kreme.com> wrote:
> On 12-Jun-2009, at 10:36, Raquel wrote:
>>
>> It's called "double opt-in"
>
> No it's not. It's called 'subscription confirmation'.
>
> "Double opt-in" is a spammer phrase invented to imply that a form on a web
> page asking for an email address is "opt-in".
>
>
> --
> Look, that's why there's rules, understand? So that you *think*
>        before you break 'em.
>
>

At 07:16 PM 6/12/2009, you wrote:
>LuKreme,
>
>I agree that one should be able to read the mail headers, but unless
>you knew to look there, you wouldn't really ever care to. Especially
>when wanting to unsubscribe. I don't think it has ever come across my
>mind to look there. RFC's aside...a link at the bottom of the email
>is the easiest. I don't plan on unsubscribing so I don't really care,
>but being bull headed is pointless in this case.

I know we're beating a dead horse here, but a few things to think about:

You don't MAGICALLY join a mailing list. You have to follow usually a
few steps (often not only subscribe, but often confirm your request
by replying to the "You really want to join this list?" e-mail or
clicking on a link in the e-mail.

You generally get a e-mail telling you that you've confirmed your
subscription AND includes instructions on how to unsubscribe.

Almost EVERY mailing list either includes instructions on how to
unsubscribe at the bottom or in the headers.

If you're joining a anti-spam mailing list, you should be able to
figure out how to unsubscribe.

Almost NO mailing list software has you e-mail the general list to
perform commands such as unsubscribe.

If you're smart enough to join, you should be smart enough to unsubscribe.

I'm probably missing sometihng, but that's a good majority of it.

On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:47:21 -0600
LuKreme <kremels@kreme.com> wrote:

> On 12-Jun-2009, at 10:36, Raquel wrote:
> > It's called "double opt-in"
>
> No it's not. It's called 'subscription confirmation'.
>
> "Double opt-in" is a spammer phrase invented to imply that a form
> on a web page asking for an email address is "opt-in".
>

If you want to get snippy and real technical about it, the Mailman
people call it, "confirmed opt-in".

--
Raquel
============================================================
Our values are defined by what we will tolerate when it is done to
others.

--William Greider

On 12-Jun-2009, at 20:16, Curtis LaMasters wrote:
> RFC's aside...a link at the bottom of the email is the easiest. I
> don't plan on unsubscribing so I don't really care, but being bull
> headed is pointless in this case.

Modifying the message body breaks things. If you can figure out how to
subscribe, you can figure out how to unsubscribe. Not taking the time
to figure this out is merely selfish and lazy. even if you don't know
to look at the headers, you can go to google.

<http://lmgtfy.com/?q=unsubscribe+spamassassin>



--
Look, that's why there's rules, understand? So that you *think*
before you break 'em.

On Sat, June 13, 2009 03:42, LuKreme wrote:
> On 12-Jun-2009, at 07:25, Benny Pedersen wrote:
>> google webmail does not support it :/
> Yes it does. Look under something like "Original Message"

it was a leading q & a from my side and i am not using it :)

--
http://localhost/ 100% uptime and 100% mirrored :)

Michael Scheidell wrote:
>
>
> Since we saw two of them come in pretty back to back, I suspect a joe
> job of sometype. those people might not have subscribed.
That would be a bit tricky to just be a joe job. This list is confirmed
opt-in. i.e.: if you subscribe, an automated bot from ezlm sends you a
message that you need to reply to to get subscribed. Well, actually all
you have to do is send a second message to a different address that
contains randomly generated text as a magic cookie. But still, you need
to know that randomly generated address.

Of course, it's always the possibility someone guessed the random text
in the reply address.. but, good luck..

They start off a bit like this (note: I've munged the email address, and
changed the values of the magic text and serial number, but I have not
changed the length. I substituted letters for letters, and numbers for
numbers. Otherwise, this is the start of a real confirm message.)

---------------------

Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the
users@spamassassin.apache.org mailing list.

To confirm that you would like

example@example.com

added to the users mailing list, please send
a short reply to this address:

users-sc.1244818352.jacibredcfjnkiobdtef-example=example.com@spamassassin.apache.org

Usually, this happens when you just hit the "reply" button.
...
------------

LuKreme wrote:
> The unsubscribe link is right there in plain sight. Whether Gmail
> conceals it from you has nothing to do with it.

Few consumer mail clients (Gmail, Yahoo, Thunderbird, OE, Outlook, Lotus/Domino, etc) show the user headers by default. This means they are clearly NOT in plain sight.

> No. this is a bad idea. If you can't figure out how to look at mail
> headers, then you have no business on this list.

The point is, you shouldn't HAVE to look at the mail headers.

Putting the unsubscribe info in the footer is a good idea no mater what. This is what I do for all the lists I run. Yes, some people are too dumb to read that far ... but MOST people aren't.

david


--
IBM i on Power -- For when you can't afford to be out of business.

On 13-Jun-2009, at 22:04, David Gibbs wrote:
> LuKreme wrote:
>> The unsubscribe link is right there in plain sight. Whether Gmail
>> conceals it from you has nothing to do with it.
>
> Few consumer mail clients (Gmail, Yahoo, Thunderbird, OE, Outlook,
> Lotus/Domino, etc) show the user headers by default. This means
> they are clearly NOT in plain sight.

No, it means that the clients are HIDING something that is in plain
sight. It is the client's issue, not the email's issue nor the mailing
list's issue.

>> No. this is a bad idea. If you can't figure out how to look at mail
>> headers, then you have no business on this list.
>
> The point is, you shouldn't HAVE to look at the mail headers.

Says you?

> Putting the unsubscribe info in the footer is a good idea no mater
> what

No it's not. It adds kruft to the end of the message, destroys the
integrity of signed posts, and makes every message unnecessarily
longer by duplicating information. It is a crutch for the ignorant and
uninformed and lazy.


--
There is NO Rule six!

As the headers of every message state:

list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>


At 07:39 PM 7/9/2009, you wrote:

On Thu, 2009-07-09 at 19:42 -0700, Evan Platt wrote:
> As the headers of every message state:
>
> list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>

I tried that when I went on vacation last month. My ack bounced after
three days, so it never unsubscribed me. I'm back from vacation now, so
I don't want to be removed, but just to let you know the automated
process doesn't always work properly...


--
Daniel J McDonald, CCIE # 2495, CISSP # 78281, CNX
www.austinenergy.com

So - you attempted to unsubscribe. You didn't reply to the
confirmation e-mail that was sent. You weren't unsubscribed.

The process worked properly. Otherwise, anyone would be able to
subscribe or unsubscribe anyone else.

At 05:44 AM 7/10/2009, you wrote:

>I tried that when I went on vacation last month. My ack bounced after
>three days, so it never unsubscribed me. I'm back from vacation now, so
>I don't want to be removed, but just to let you know the automated
>process doesn't always work properly...

On Fri, 2009-07-10 at 06:56 -0700, Evan Platt wrote:
> So - you attempted to unsubscribe. You didn't reply to the
> confirmation e-mail that was sent.

I did reply, but the ezlm software refused to accept the message. And
exchange is dumb enough that it didn't tell me that it failed for 3
days.

The DSN read:

Reporting-MTA: dns;smtp.austinenergy.com

Final-Recipient:
rfc822;users-uc.1245773457.nhiihncbmgpfondhajck-Dan.McDonald=austinenergy.com@spamassassin.apache.org
Action: failed
Status: 4.4.7

I'm not exactly a novice listserv user. I've been managing listservs of
various flavors since 1990 or so. So I do know how to read the
instructions and send an ack back. I'm just not used to them being
rejected.


--
Daniel J McDonald, CCIE # 2495, CISSP # 78281, CNX
www.austinenergy.com

Oh ok.. I'm going to go out on a limb here and blame Exchange. :)



At 07:40 AM 7/10/2009, you wrote:
>On Fri, 2009-07-10 at 06:56 -0700, Evan Platt wrote:
> > So - you attempted to unsubscribe. You didn't reply to the
> > confirmation e-mail that was sent.
>
>I did reply, but the ezlm software refused to accept the message. And
>exchange is dumb enough that it didn't tell me that it failed for 3
>days.
>
>The DSN read:
>
> Reporting-MTA: dns;smtp.austinenergy.com
>
> Final-Recipient:
>
>rfc822;users-uc.1245773457.nhiihncbmgpfondhajck-Dan.McDonald=austinenergy.com@spamassassin.apache.org
> Action: failed
> Status: 4.4.7
>
>I'm not exactly a novice listserv user. I've been managing listservs of
>various flavors since 1990 or so. So I do know how to read the
>instructions and send an ack back. I'm just not used to them being
>rejected.

At 06:17 AM 7/23/2009, Rick Duval wrote:
>unsubscribe

As is stated in every header:

list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>

On 29-Sep-2009, at 21:54, Gary Smith wrote:
> Didn't we already have this discussion today. You need to use the
> link in the headers!

Yes, but if he could read your message, he could read the headers,
right?


--
What the hell's goin' on in the engine room? Were there
monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?

> On 29-Sep-2009, at 21:54, Gary Smith wrote:
>> Didn't we already have this discussion today. You need to use the
>> link in the headers!
>
> Yes, but if he could read your message, he could read the headers, right?
>
>
Think about it, the people that unsubscribe aren't really interested in
what you have to say about unsubscribing or the correct place to look
for the email address. I think a simple reply from one of us with the
correct email address would suffice.

--
Dan Schaefer
Web Developer/Systems Analyst
Performance Administration Corp.

On 30/09/2009 16:08, Dan Schaefer wrote:

>>> Didn't we already have this discussion today. You need to use the
>>> link in the headers!
>>
>> Yes, but if he could read your message, he could read the headers, right?
>>
> Think about it, the people that unsubscribe aren't really interested in
> what you have to say about unsubscribing or the correct place to look
> for the email address. I think a simple reply from one of us with the
> correct email address would suffice.

If you want to tell somebody how to unsubscribe, please do it off list.
Why doesn't the list block messages which contain a single "unsubscribe"
in the body or an empty body with "unsubscribe" in the Subject line? I
got bored of seeing these on the various lists I'm on so I blackhole
them at the MTA level. All I see now is the people replying to them to
say "Here's how you do it". By all means, reply, but there's no need to
reply to the list.

--
Mike Cardwell - IT Consultant and LAMP developer
Cardwell IT Ltd. (UK Reg'd Company #06920226) http://cardwellit.com/

At 08:28 AM 9/30/2009, you wrote:

>If you want to tell somebody how to unsubscribe, please do it off
>list. Why doesn't the list block messages which contain a single
>"unsubscribe" in the body or an empty body with "unsubscribe" in the
>Subject line? I got bored of seeing these on the various lists I'm
>on so I blackhole them at the MTA level. All I see now is the people
>replying to them to say "Here's how you do it". By all means, reply,
>but there's no need to reply to the list.

Because about 90% of the time, someone else will want to unsubscribe too.

And if they see the 'unsubscribe' message, they somehow think that's
how to unsubscribe.

So, if they see the first request, and then see the message with the
correct instructions, they may follow it.

But I agree, a better solution is to have the list server 'reject'
unsubscribe messages. :)

Evan Platt wrote:
> At 08:28 AM 9/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>> If you want to tell somebody how to unsubscribe, please do it off
>> list. Why doesn't the list block messages which contain a single
>> "unsubscribe" in the body or an empty body with "unsubscribe" in the
>> Subject line? I got bored of seeing these on the various lists I'm on
>> so I blackhole them at the MTA level. All I see now is the people
>> replying to them to say "Here's how you do it". By all means, reply,
>> but there's no need to reply to the list.
>
> Because about 90% of the time, someone else will want to unsubscribe too.
>
> And if they see the 'unsubscribe' message, they somehow think that's
> how to unsubscribe.
>
> So, if they see the first request, and then see the message with the
> correct instructions, they may follow it.
>
> But I agree, a better solution is to have the list server 'reject'
> unsubscribe messages. :)
A better solution would be to automatically handle the request as it was
intended.

This is the kind of User Interface design issue that just makes me insane.

Rewrite it as necessary, forward it to the list manager and be done with it.

This is on par with the classic form submit message "The following
fields are required: . . . " Well if the fields are required, the submit
button shouldn't be active until they're filled.

It's no wonder non-technical people feel intimidated by computers.
Software still lets them do the "wrong" thing, even when their intent
was obvious.

Terry




--
Terry Carmen
CNY Support, LLC
http://cnysupport.com

Terry Carmen wrote:

<referring to messages asking how to unsubscribe to a list>
> A better solution would be to automatically handle the request as it
> was intended.
unless, of course, someone happens to be writing a message with the word
"unsubscribe" in it, and DOESN'T want to unsubscribe to the list

let you think this is picking a nit.... I run a list for parents of one
of my kid's schools, the school department runs another (badly) -- it's
very common for people to write to our list asking how to (un)subscribe
to the official school list

for that matter, on any list discussing mail handling, or perhaps
server-side software in general, I expect the word "unsubscribe" is
quite common

Miles


--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra

At 11:36 AM 9/30/2009, you wrote:
>unless, of course, someone happens to be writing a message with the
>word "unsubscribe" in it, and DOESN'T want to unsubscribe to the list
>
>let you think this is picking a nit.... I run a list for parents of
>one of my kid's schools, the school department runs another (badly)
>-- it's very common for people to write to our list asking how to
>(un)subscribe to the official school list
>
>for that matter, on any list discussing mail handling, or perhaps
>server-side software in general, I expect the word "unsubscribe" is
>quite common

I've seen a number of lists where it was hard to put the word
unsubscribe in a message without it rejecting it..

Someone sent a message to the group of 'unsuscribe' (note the spelling).

I replied back 'to unsubscribe, send a message to
<unsubscribe@mailinglist.example.com>. List software denied my post -
telling me if I wish to unsubscribe, here's how to do it (oh... the
irony). So I tried again, this time saying 'if you wish to
unsuscribe , send a message to ..... List AGAIN saw the unsubscribe
address in my body of the message, and rejected it.

Can't remember how I got around it - I think I told the person to try
spelling it correctly. :)

Miles Fidelman wrote:
> unless, of course, someone happens to be writing a message with the word
> "unsubscribe" in it, and DOESN'T want to unsubscribe to the list
>
> let you think this is picking a nit.... I run a list for parents of one
> of my kid's schools, the school department runs another (badly) -- it's
> very common for people to write to our list asking how to (un)subscribe
> to the official school list
>
> for that matter, on any list discussing mail handling, or perhaps
> server-side software in general, I expect the word "unsubscribe" is
> quite common

Would I be correct in assuming that most or all of those messages have
more words in the subject than just the single word "unsubscribe"? Or
at least some message content?

If the message body is empty and the subject only contains the word
"unsubscribe," it's probably a safe bet to assume it's an attempt to
remove someone from the list and not a question or comment.

--
Kelson Vibber
SpeedGate Communications <www.speed.net>

On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 13:24:36 +0000, Londen, Michael van wrote:

> P PLEASE CONSIDER THE ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS MESSAGE.

save trees dont post html :)

send a email to users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org reply to what
you get back, and then you are off the list

Am 25.09.2014 um 05:59 schrieb Shankar:

here you go

list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>

don't send unsubscribe to the list
not here and not on any other mailing list

sent to the list to hopefully save some
"unsubscribe" posts in the future

25.09.2014, 13:13, Reindl Harald kirjoitti:
> Am 25.09.2014 um 05:59 schrieb Shankar:
>
> here you go
>
> list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>
>
> don't send unsubscribe to the list
> not here and not on any other mailing list
>
> sent to the list to hopefully save some
> "unsubscribe" posts in the future
>
>
>
>
It just happens that Microsoft has made it so difficult to see the
"source code" of a message and see that. Also no matter what sofware, it
is still in source code.

Some lists have made it easy publishing that info on an attachment. Most
have not, as we are certainly all (or most) Internet Pro's. No matter
what you do, there will be noice, like these messages in this thread.

--
jarif.bit

Am 25.09.2014 um 22:53 schrieb Jari Fredriksson:
> 25.09.2014, 13:13, Reindl Harald kirjoitti:
>> Am 25.09.2014 um 05:59 schrieb Shankar:
>>
>> here you go
>>
>> list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>
>>
>> don't send unsubscribe to the list
>> not here and not on any other mailing list
>>
>> sent to the list to hopefully save some
>> "unsubscribe" posts in the future
>>
> It just happens that Microsoft has made it so difficult to see the
> "source code" of a message and see that. Also no matter what sofware, it
> is still in source code.

irrelevant - every list has a welcome message and there is no
logic in ask other members to unsubscribe yourself, one did
also not ask them for subscribe

https://www.google.at/search?q=spamassassin+mailing+list
https://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/MailingLists

> Some lists have made it easy publishing that info on an attachment. Most
> have not

that additions are a problem in context of DMARC

> as we are certainly all (or most) Internet Pro's. No matter
> what you do, there will be noice, like these messages in
> this thread

well, especially because list like these are tech-lists i wonder :-)

On 9/25/14, 2:00 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> irrelevant - every list has a welcome message and there is no logic in
> ask other members to unsubscribe yourself, one did also not ask them
> for subscribe https://www.google.at/search?q=spamassassin+mailing+list
> https://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/MailingLists

I love it when people get all authoritarian on lists. I've used the
list-unsubscribe address numerous times. Never once seen a response and
the mail has never once stopped.

Process seems broken to me.

Derek

Am 15.10.2014 um 19:07 schrieb Derek Harding:
> On 9/25/14, 2:00 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> irrelevant - every list has a welcome message and there is no logic in
>> ask other members to unsubscribe yourself, one did also not ask them
>> for subscribe https://www.google.at/search?q=spamassassin+mailing+list
>> https://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/MailingLists
>
> I love it when people get all authoritarian on lists. I've used the
> list-unsubscribe address numerous times. Never once seen a response and
> the mail has never once stopped.
>
> Process seems broken to me

and *why* do you NOT state that in your *first* message?

On 10/15/2014 1:07 PM, Derek Harding wrote:
> On 9/25/14, 2:00 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> irrelevant - every list has a welcome message and there is no logic
>> in ask other members to unsubscribe yourself, one did also not ask
>> them for subscribe
>> https://www.google.at/search?q=spamassassin+mailing+list
>> https://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/MailingLists
>
> I love it when people get all authoritarian on lists. I've used the
> list-unsubscribe address numerous times. Never once seen a response
> and the mail has never once stopped.
>
> Process seems broken to me.
I've looked into this and tested the process without issue. The only
issue I've seen to date is someone who joined who did not know what
email address they joined as and does not know how to read the email
source to determine the correct email address to unsubscribe.

If you know the email address you want unsubscribed and need help, email
me off-list and I'll get it taken care of!

regards,
KAM

On 2014-10-15 10:16, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
> On 10/15/2014 1:07 PM, Derek Harding wrote:
>> On 9/25/14, 2:00 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>> irrelevant - every list has a welcome message and there is no logic
>>> in ask other members to unsubscribe yourself, one did also not ask
>>> them for subscribe
>>> https://www.google.at/search?q=spamassassin+mailing+list
>>> https://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/MailingLists
>>
>> I love it when people get all authoritarian on lists. I've used the
>> list-unsubscribe address numerous times. Never once seen a response
>> and the mail has never once stopped.
>>
>> Process seems broken to me.
> I've looked into this and tested the process without issue. The only
> issue I've seen to date is someone who joined who did not know what
> email address they joined as and does not know how to read the email
> source to determine the correct email address to unsubscribe.

I second this. I "tested" it a few months back when I unsubscribed and
re-subscribed a new address from all of the mailing lists. This list
worked fine. Most did.

There were a couple I encountered that didn't work, where the -request
or -unsubscribe addresses weren't properly aliased, and I can confirm
that all the ones I encountered are now fixed.

--
Dave Warren
http://www.hireahit.com/
http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davejwarren

On 10/15/14, 10:09 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> and *why* do you NOT state that in your *first* message?
>
That was my first message.

On 10/15/14, 11:35 AM, Dave Warren wrote:
> On 2014-10-15 10:16, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
>> I've looked into this and tested the process without issue. The only
>> issue I've seen to date is someone who joined who did not know what
>> email address they joined as and does not know how to read the email
>> source to determine the correct email address to unsubscribe.
>
> I second this. I "tested" it a few months back when I unsubscribed and
> re-subscribed a new address from all of the mailing lists. This list
> worked fine. Most did.
>
> There were a couple I encountered that didn't work, where the -request
> or -unsubscribe addresses weren't properly aliased, and I can confirm
> that all the ones I encountered are now fixed.
>
I try the process periodically, it has not worked for me through testing
over the past year.

Mail from me to users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org goes into a
black hole.

I didn't mention it before because the list is the only place to post
and anyone posting unsubscribe questions on the list gets verbally
berated and treated as though they're an idiot until they shut up (see
the responses so far for examples).

Derek

On Thursday, October 16, 2014, 8:02:48 PM, Derek wrote:

> On 10/15/14, 11:35 AM, Dave Warren wrote:

> On 2014-10-15 10:16, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
>
> I've looked into this and tested the process without issue.
> The only issue I've seen to date is someone who joined who
> did not know what email address they joined as and does not
> know how to read the email source to determine the correct email address to unsubscribe.
>
>
> I second this. I "tested" it a few months back when I
> unsubscribed and re-subscribed a new address from all of the
> mailing lists. This list worked fine. Most did.
>
> There were a couple I encountered that didn't work, where
> the -request or -unsubscribe addresses weren't properly
> aliased, and I can confirm that all the ones I encountered are now fixed.
>
>
> I try the process periodically, it has not worked for me
> through testing over the past year.
>
> Mail from me to users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org goes into a black hole.
>
> I didn't mention it before because the list is the only place
> to post and anyone posting unsubscribe questions on the list
> gets verbally berated and treated as though they're an idiot
> until they shut up (see the responses so far for examples).
>

Have you confirmed in your server logs the message was received by the
SA server? If so, there would have been a message coming back to your
server shortly thereafter.

I just sent an unsubscribe request:

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 21:03:35 -0500
From: Duane Hill <duihi77@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1224074593.20141016210335@gmail.com>
To: users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org

and received a message back shortly after (roughly 30 seconds):

Date: 17 Oct 2014 02:04:06 -0000
Message-ID: <1413511446.55424.ezmlm@spamassassin.apache.org>
From: users-help@spamassassin.apache.org
To: duihi77@gmail.com
...
Subject: confirm unsubscribe from users@spamassassin.apache.org


Are you sending the unsubscribe request from an address subscribed?

--
Duane Hill
duihi77@gmail.com
"If at first you don't succeed, so much for sky diving."

On 10/16/2014 7:14 PM, Duane Hill wrote:
> Are you sending the unsubscribe request from an address subscribed?

Yes

Derek Harding wrote:
> Mail from me to users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org goes into a black
> hole.

For help about that issue you should email the mailing list admin.
They are the human admins and can help you unsubscribe or debug the
problem. The mailing list members cannot do this.

I am not one of the spamassassin mailing list admins but I am one of
the mailing list admins of another large site with 1,000+ lists. When
in trouble email the human admin and not the mailing list members.
The mailing list members can't help you. The mailing list admins are
the ones who can help you.

Generally mailing list admins can be reached at the -owner address.
That address takes the mailing list address and adds -owner to the end
of it. The mailing list here is users@spamassassin.apache.org. To
reach the owner send to users-owner@spamassassin.apache.org and it
should reach a human admin of the mailing list. This is documented in
the help information for the mailing list. It applies to most mailing
list management software.

> I didn't mention it before because the list is the only place to post and
> anyone posting unsubscribe questions on the list gets verbally berated and
> treated as though they're an idiot until they shut up (see the responses so
> far for examples).

The problem is that this is a technical mailing list that is concerned
with the technical details of email. There is an expectation that
people on a technical mailing list about email will know how email
works. Including how mailing lists since somehow everyone on the list
got themselves subscribed. The unsubscription process is done
identically to subscription. If you got on the list just do the exact
same thing to get off the list. And if that doesn't work then contact
the mailing list admin at the -owner address.

So what do you do if you find yourself subscribed to a mailing list
but in reality you are not an email type of person? You really would
rather just read web pages? In that case use the web! A quick web
search will find that spamassassin.apache.org uses the apache.org
infrastructure. Here is the Apache page describing their mailing
lists. It includes additional information for figuring out what
address you originally subscribed with and how to unsubscribe from a
different address. Good stuff!

http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html

Including links to the ezmlm upstream documentation. This is really
quite good documentation. If the operation of the apache.org mailing
lists have been a mystery before then take a few minutes and read
through the manual. It will remove the mystery and turn you into a
apache.org mailing list expert. Great stuff!

http://untroubled.org/ezmlm/manual/

The most important takeaway is that if you have problems with a
mailing list then contact the mailing list owner at the -owner
address.

http://untroubled.org/ezmlm/manual/Contacting-the-Owner.html#Contacting-the-Owner

Hope that helps someone!
Bob

On 2014-10-16 19:14, Duane Hill wrote:
> Are you sending the unsubscribe request from an address subscribed?

That generates a useful error message too:

Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the
users@spamassassin.apache.org mailing list.

Acknowledgment: The address

lists@hireahit.com

was not on the users mailing list when I received
your request and is not a subscriber of this list.

If you unsubscribe, but continue to receive mail, you're subscribed
under a different address than you currently use. Please look at the
header for:
<...>

I also verified that the -unsubscribe address works, and got a reply in
under a minute from there too. I'm obviously not completing the loop
since I would prefer to stay subscribed.

--
Dave Warren
http://www.hireahit.com/
http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davejwarren

Am 17.10.2014 um 02:57 schrieb Derek Harding:
> On 10/15/14, 10:09 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>
>> and *why* do you NOT state that in your *first* message?
>>
> That was my first message

ah so you hijacked a thread pretending unsubscribe don't work but don't
know if the OP tried it nor made clear you are not the OP

frankly the "Unsubscribe" sent to the list happens multiple times on
multiple lists every week and i am tried of it - especially on technical
lists

On 10/27/2014 3:52 PM, Chris Brandstetter wrote:
>
> A Chris Brandstetter
> Linux/UNIX System Administrator
> Nebraska Wesleyan University
> ⌘
>
You should email users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org to unsubscribe.

Before you do though, where did you read that this was how to
unsubscribe from the list? We've been seeing a lot of this and it would
be good to know if there's some documentation that needs fixing.

Am 27.10.2014 um 20:52 schrieb Chris Brandstetter:

here we go again
https://www.google.at/#q=spamassassin%20list%20unsubscribe

I had assumed it was like most lists where a simple unsubscribe on the subject or in the body would remove me (default settings for Majordomo list manager).

A Chris Brandstetter
Linux/UNIX System Administrator
Nebraska Wesleyan University
⌘

On Oct 27, 2014, at 2:54 PM, Joe Quinn <jquinn@pccc.com> wrote:

> On 10/27/2014 3:52 PM, Chris Brandstetter wrote:
>>
>> A Chris Brandstetter
>> Linux/UNIX System Administrator
>> Nebraska Wesleyan University
>> ⌘
>>
> You should email users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org to unsubscribe.
>
> Before you do though, where did you read that this was how to unsubscribe from the list? We've been seeing a lot of this and it would be good to know if there's some documentation that needs fixing.

Am 27.10.2014 um 21:19 schrieb Chris Brandstetter:
> I had assumed it was like most lists where a simple unsubscribe on the subject or in the body would remove me (default settings for Majordomo list manager).

most lists?
which one?

any list on this earth has a unsubscribe header

list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>

frankly even majordomo don't unsubscribe by post to the list
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:majordomo@postfix.org>

> On Oct 27, 2014, at 2:54 PM, Joe Quinn <jquinn@pccc.com> wrote:
>> On 10/27/2014 3:52 PM, Chris Brandstetter wrote:
>>>
>>> A Chris Brandstetter
>>> Linux/UNIX System Administrator
>>> Nebraska Wesleyan University
>>> ⌘
>>>
>> You should email users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org to unsubscribe.
>>
>> Before you do though, where did you read that this was how to unsubscribe from the list? We've been seeing a lot of this and it would be good to know if there's some documentation that needs fixing.

and frankly *every* list has a welcome message while the list-software
only can send it, read is the job of the subscriber

leow a quote of the SA weclome messaage which even explicitly states *do
not* send unsubscribe to the list - besides that: what sense does it
make to send every of the 100, 1000, 5000 subscribers the message?
______________________________________________

I can handle administrative requests automatically. Please
do not send them to the list address! Instead, send
your message to the correct command address:

To subscribe to the list, send a message to:
<users-subscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>

To remove your address from the list, send a message to:
<users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>

Send mail to the following for info and FAQ for this list:
<users-info@spamassassin.apache.org>
<users-faq@spamassassin.apache.org>

Similar addresses exist for the digest list:
<users-digest-subscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>
<users-digest-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>

To get messages 123 through 145 (a maximum of 100 per request), mail:
<users-get.123_145@spamassassin.apache.org>

To get an index with subject and author for messages 123-456 , mail:
<users-index.123_456@spamassassin.apache.org>
______________________________________________

Am 27.10.2014 um 21:38 schrieb Reindl Harald:
>
> Am 27.10.2014 um 21:19 schrieb Chris Brandstetter:
>> I had assumed it was like most lists where a simple unsubscribe on the
>> subject or in the body would remove me (default settings for Majordomo
>> list manager).
>
> most lists?
> which one?
>
> any list on this earth has a unsubscribe header
>
> list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>
>
> frankly even majordomo don't unsubscribe by post to the list
> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:majordomo@postfix.org>
>
>> On Oct 27, 2014, at 2:54 PM, Joe Quinn <jquinn@pccc.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/27/2014 3:52 PM, Chris Brandstetter wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A Chris Brandstetter
>>>> Linux/UNIX System Administrator
>>>> Nebraska Wesleyan University
>>>> ⌘
>>>>
>>> You should email users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org to
>>> unsubscribe.
>>>
>>> Before you do though, where did you read that this was how to
>>> unsubscribe from the list? We've been seeing a lot of this and it
>>> would be good to know if there's some documentation that needs fixing

Surely a system administrator, especially one for Linux/UNIX, would know to look
in the message headers for things hints if there are none lurking at the bottom
of the messages. That is where said system administrator would find things like
this:
list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>

(And a real system administrator would be savvy enough to mention that had been
tried and failed if that was the case and that this was done from the address
used for subscribing. That way said system administrator would avoid snark like
this.)

{o.o} Joanne - just sayin'

On 2014-10-27 12:52, Chris Brandstetter wrote:
>
>
> A Chris Brandstetter
> Linux/UNIX System Administrator
> Nebraska Wesleyan University
> ⌘
>

From Bugzilla (https://lists.bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=&passw=&list=GLOBAL&func=help&extra=unsubscribe) :
"The simplest way to remove your address from a mailing list is
to send the following command in the body of an e-mail message to
majordomo@bugzilla.org:
unsubscribe LISTNAME
Replace "LISTNAME" with the name of the list you wish to leave.”

From Greatcircle (Majordomo creators)(http://www.greatcircle.com/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=&passw=&list=GLOBAL&func=help&extra=unregister):
"The simplest way for you to unregister is to send the following command
in the body of an e-mail message to Majordomo@GreatCircle.COM:
unregister
(A confirmation message may be sent to your e-mail address.)”

Sorry I did not use the body that was my error.

Majordomo does support default lists which means if a default list is setup you can exclude the LISTNAME variable.

A Chris Brandstetter
Linux/UNIX System Administrator
Nebraska Wesleyan University
⌘

On Oct 27, 2014, at 3:47 PM, jdow <jdow@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Surely a system administrator, especially one for Linux/UNIX, would know to look in the message headers for things hints if there are none lurking at the bottom of the messages. That is where said system administrator would find things like this:
> list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>
>
> (And a real system administrator would be savvy enough to mention that had been tried and failed if that was the case and that this was done from the address used for subscribing. That way said system administrator would avoid snark like this.)
>
> {o.o} Joanne - just sayin'
>
> On 2014-10-27 12:52, Chris Brandstetter wrote:
>>
>>
>> A Chris Brandstetter
>> Linux/UNIX System Administrator
>> Nebraska Wesleyan University
>> ⌘
>>

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014, Chris Brandstetter wrote:

> From Bugzilla (https://lists.bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=&passw=&list=GLOBAL&func=help&extra=unsubscribe) :
> "The simplest way to remove your address from a mailing list is
> to send the following command in the body of an e-mail message to
> majordomo@bugzilla.org:
> unsubscribe LISTNAME
> Replace "LISTNAME" with the name of the list you wish to leave.”
>
> From Greatcircle (Majordomo creators)(http://www.greatcircle.com/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=&passw=&list=GLOBAL&func=help&extra=unregister):
> "The simplest way for you to unregister is to send the following command
> in the body of an e-mail message to Majordomo@GreatCircle.COM:
> unregister
> (A confirmation message may be sent to your e-mail address.)”
>
> Sorry I did not use the body that was my error.

And this list's email address is not "majordomo@spamassassin.apache.org".
Did you try sending an unsubscribe request to that address?

> Majordomo does support default lists which means if a default list is setup you can exclude the LISTNAME variable.

I doubt the Apache listserv has a default list defined. However, it's
possible that x@spamassassin.apache.org is a separate majordomo install,
so that might reasonably have the users list as a default; KAM, perhaps
infra can check on that?

--
John Hardin KA7OHZ http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/
jhardin@impsec.org FALaholic #11174 pgpk -a jhardin@impsec.org
key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...the Fates notice those who buy chainsaws...
-- www.darwinawards.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
4 days until Halloween

Am 27.10.2014 um 22:27 schrieb Chris Brandstetter:
> From Bugzilla (https://lists.bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=&passw=&list=GLOBAL&func=help&extra=unsubscribe) :
> "The simplest way to remove your address from a mailing list is
> to send the following command in the body of an e-mail message to
> majordomo@bugzilla.org:
> unsubscribe LISTNAME
> Replace "LISTNAME" with the name of the list you wish to leave.”
>
> From Greatcircle (Majordomo creators)(http://www.greatcircle.com/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=&passw=&list=GLOBAL&func=help&extra=unregister):
> "The simplest way for you to unregister is to send the following command
> in the body of an e-mail message to Majordomo@GreatCircle.COM:
> unregister
> (A confirmation message may be sent to your e-mail address.)”
>
> Sorry I did not use the body that was my error.
>
> Majordomo does support default lists which means if a default list is setup you can exclude the LISTNAME variable

and where do you read anything above about send it to the list?

a) it's not majordomo -> Mailing-List: contact
users-help@spamassassin.apache.org; run by ezmlm

b) users@spamassassin.apache.org != majordomo@spamassassin.apache.org


please stop try to pretend send to the list is a good idea anywhere
thank you!

Chris, read that CAREFULLY. You send messages to this at
users@spamassassin.apache.org. The mailer is not Majordomo; but, the address for
sending email to various lists with majordomo is pretty much the same. Do,
please, note that <listname>@<listserver_address> is quite different from
"majordomo@<listserver_address>".

You are busily shattering your rep as a system administrator. It would be wise
to stop digging and climb out of the hole when it starts filling itself faster
than you can dig.

{o.o}

On 2014-10-27 14:27, Chris Brandstetter wrote:
> From Bugzilla (https://lists.bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=&passw=&list=GLOBAL&func=help&extra=unsubscribe) :
> "The simplest way to remove your address from a mailing list is
> to send the following command in the body of an e-mail message to
> majordomo@bugzilla.org:
> unsubscribe LISTNAME
> Replace "LISTNAME" with the name of the list you wish to leave.”
>
> From Greatcircle (Majordomo creators)(http://www.greatcircle.com/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=&passw=&list=GLOBAL&func=help&extra=unregister):
> "The simplest way for you to unregister is to send the following command
> in the body of an e-mail message to Majordomo@GreatCircle.COM:
> unregister
> (A confirmation message may be sent to your e-mail address.)”
>
> Sorry I did not use the body that was my error.
>
> Majordomo does support default lists which means if a default list is setup you can exclude the LISTNAME variable.
>
> A Chris Brandstetter
> Linux/UNIX System Administrator
> Nebraska Wesleyan University
> ⌘
>
> On Oct 27, 2014, at 3:47 PM, jdow <jdow@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Surely a system administrator, especially one for Linux/UNIX, would know to look in the message headers for things hints if there are none lurking at the bottom of the messages. That is where said system administrator would find things like this:
>> list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>
>>
>> (And a real system administrator would be savvy enough to mention that had been tried and failed if that was the case and that this was done from the address used for subscribing. That way said system administrator would avoid snark like this.)
>>
>> {o.o} Joanne - just sayin'
>>
>> On 2014-10-27 12:52, Chris Brandstetter wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> A Chris Brandstetter
>>> Linux/UNIX System Administrator
>>> Nebraska Wesleyan University
>>> ⌘
>>>
>

Is ezmlm == majordomo? As I am saying he ought to take some time out, think, and
gather in some clues. If he is wise he'll treat it as a learning experience.
Only a few people manage to miss this misadventure with mailing lists at least
once in their lives. But when they sign it with "system administrator", well, it
just invites a goodly dose of snark - especially this recently after the last
time "unsubscribe" hit this list.

{^_-} Joanne

On 2014-10-27 14:35, John Hardin wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2014, Chris Brandstetter wrote:
>
>> From Bugzilla
>> (https://lists.bugzilla.org/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=&passw=&list=GLOBAL&func=help&extra=unsubscribe)
>> :
>> "The simplest way to remove your address from a mailing list is
>> to send the following command in the body of an e-mail message to
>> majordomo@bugzilla.org:
>> unsubscribe LISTNAME
>> Replace "LISTNAME" with the name of the list you wish to leave.”
>>
>> From Greatcircle (Majordomo
>> creators)(http://www.greatcircle.com/cgi-bin/mj_wwwusr?user=&passw=&list=GLOBAL&func=help&extra=unregister):
>>
>> "The simplest way for you to unregister is to send the following command
>> in the body of an e-mail message to Majordomo@GreatCircle.COM:
>> unregister
>> (A confirmation message may be sent to your e-mail address.)”
>>
>> Sorry I did not use the body that was my error.
>
> And this list's email address is not "majordomo@spamassassin.apache.org". Did
> you try sending an unsubscribe request to that address?
>
>> Majordomo does support default lists which means if a default list is setup
>> you can exclude the LISTNAME variable.
>
> I doubt the Apache listserv has a default list defined. However, it's possible
> that x@spamassassin.apache.org is a separate majordomo install, so that might
> reasonably have the users list as a default; KAM, perhaps infra can check on that?
>

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014, jdow wrote:

> Is ezmlm == majordomo?

And I didn't catch that, either. :)

--
John Hardin KA7OHZ http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/
jhardin@impsec.org FALaholic #11174 pgpk -a jhardin@impsec.org
key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...the Fates notice those who buy chainsaws...
-- www.darwinawards.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
4 days until Halloween

* don't hijack threads
* don't send "unsubscribe" to the whole list
* just unsubscribe yourself

list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>

the same applies to any other mailing list
https://www.google.at/#q=how+to+unsubscribe+from+a+mailing+list

Am 25.11.2014 um 14:31 schrieb Ralf Longwitz:
> Am 25.11.2014 10:41 schrieb "Paul Gardiner":
>
> Hi,
> I drive spamassassin using spampd.
>
> I've just swapped from using opensuse 13.1 to 13.2. That's taken
> me from spamassassin 3.3.2 to 3.4.0. I have two confusing changes.
>
> 1) The really problematic one is that I no longer see X-Spam-Level
> and X-Spam-Status headers in the processed mail. I do still have
> X-Spam-Checker-Version. I was using status to trigger rejection,
> so now effectively I have no filtering.
>
> 2) The confusing one: I used to have many .cf files in
> /usr/share/spamassassin/. I now have none.
>
> As you can probably tell, I don't really know much about
> spamassassin. I've to some degree been using it out of
> the box and having it just work. I realise the change could be
> down to opensuse packaging, but I thought someone here might
> know best where the problem lies. (I wondered if perhaps now
> spamassassin requires a cronjob to download and update the
> rules)
>
> Any advice gratefully received

how about you get fucked, dictator asswipe your a nobody here so just
fuck off to your own hole you troll every list you join you act like
god but your nothing but an offensive troll nobody

On 11/25/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
> * don't hijack threads
> * don't send "unsubscribe" to the whole list
> * just unsubscribe yourself
>
> list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>
>
> the same applies to any other mailing list
> https://www.google.at/#q=how+to+unsubscribe+from+a+mailing+list
>
> Am 25.11.2014 um 14:31 schrieb Ralf Longwitz:
>> Am 25.11.2014 10:41 schrieb "Paul Gardiner":
>>
>> Hi,
>> I drive spamassassin using spampd.
>>
>> I've just swapped from using opensuse 13.1 to 13.2. That's taken
>> me from spamassassin 3.3.2 to 3.4.0. I have two confusing changes.
>>
>> 1) The really problematic one is that I no longer see X-Spam-Level
>> and X-Spam-Status headers in the processed mail. I do still have
>> X-Spam-Checker-Version. I was using status to trigger rejection,
>> so now effectively I have no filtering.
>>
>> 2) The confusing one: I used to have many .cf files in
>> /usr/share/spamassassin/. I now have none.
>>
>> As you can probably tell, I don't really know much about
>> spamassassin. I've to some degree been using it out of
>> the box and having it just work. I realise the change could be
>> down to opensuse packaging, but I thought someone here might
>> know best where the problem lies. (I wondered if perhaps now
>> spamassassin requires a cronjob to download and update the
>> rules)
>>
>> Any advice gratefully received
>
>

Am 26.11.2014 um 13:19 schrieb Nick Edwards:
> how about you get fucked, dictator asswipe your a nobody here so just
> fuck off to your own hole you troll every list you join you act like
> god but your nothing but an offensive troll nobody

what is your problem?
i got even a off-list thank you mail in german from the user

so just shut up if nobody asked you!

> On 11/25/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>> * don't hijack threads
>> * don't send "unsubscribe" to the whole list
>> * just unsubscribe yourself
>>
>> list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>
>>
>> the same applies to any other mailing list
>> https://www.google.at/#q=how+to+unsubscribe+from+a+mailing+list
>>
>> Am 25.11.2014 um 14:31 schrieb Ralf Longwitz:
>>> Am 25.11.2014 10:41 schrieb "Paul Gardiner":
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I drive spamassassin using spampd.
>>>
>>> I've just swapped from using opensuse 13.1 to 13.2. That's taken
>>> me from spamassassin 3.3.2 to 3.4.0. I have two confusing changes.
>>>
>>> 1) The really problematic one is that I no longer see X-Spam-Level
>>> and X-Spam-Status headers in the processed mail. I do still have
>>> X-Spam-Checker-Version. I was using status to trigger rejection,
>>> so now effectively I have no filtering.
>>>
>>> 2) The confusing one: I used to have many .cf files in
>>> /usr/share/spamassassin/. I now have none.
>>>
>>> As you can probably tell, I don't really know much about
>>> spamassassin. I've to some degree been using it out of
>>> the box and having it just work. I realise the change could be
>>> down to opensuse packaging, but I thought someone here might
>>> know best where the problem lies. (I wondered if perhaps now
>>> spamassassin requires a cronjob to download and update the
>>> rules)
>>>
>>> Any advice gratefully received

my problem is pompus asswipe dictators like you who interfere where
not required, and go out of their way to abuse people and speak like
acid to them it is my aum in life to rid the internet of scum like you

centos list BANNED
fedora list MODERATED
roundcube list MODERATED
dovecot list FINAL WARNING
apache list FINAL WARNING
postfix list BANNED

says all anyone needs to know about your modus operandi

On 11/26/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>
> Am 26.11.2014 um 13:19 schrieb Nick Edwards:
>> how about you get fucked, dictator asswipe your a nobody here so just
>> fuck off to your own hole you troll every list you join you act like
>> god but your nothing but an offensive troll nobody
>
> what is your problem?
> i got even a off-list thank you mail in german from the user
>
> so just shut up if nobody asked you!
>
>> On 11/25/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>>> * don't hijack threads
>>> * don't send "unsubscribe" to the whole list
>>> * just unsubscribe yourself
>>>
>>> list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>
>>>
>>> the same applies to any other mailing list
>>> https://www.google.at/#q=how+to+unsubscribe+from+a+mailing+list
>>>
>>> Am 25.11.2014 um 14:31 schrieb Ralf Longwitz:
>>>> Am 25.11.2014 10:41 schrieb "Paul Gardiner":
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I drive spamassassin using spampd.
>>>>
>>>> I've just swapped from using opensuse 13.1 to 13.2. That's taken
>>>> me from spamassassin 3.3.2 to 3.4.0. I have two confusing changes.
>>>>
>>>> 1) The really problematic one is that I no longer see X-Spam-Level
>>>> and X-Spam-Status headers in the processed mail. I do still have
>>>> X-Spam-Checker-Version. I was using status to trigger rejection,
>>>> so now effectively I have no filtering.
>>>>
>>>> 2) The confusing one: I used to have many .cf files in
>>>> /usr/share/spamassassin/. I now have none.
>>>>
>>>> As you can probably tell, I don't really know much about
>>>> spamassassin. I've to some degree been using it out of
>>>> the box and having it just work. I realise the change could be
>>>> down to opensuse packaging, but I thought someone here might
>>>> know best where the problem lies. (I wondered if perhaps now
>>>> spamassassin requires a cronjob to download and update the
>>>> rules)
>>>>
>>>> Any advice gratefully received
>
>

Am 26.11.2014 um 13:30 schrieb Nick Edwards:
> my problem is pompus asswipe dictators like you who interfere where
> not required, and go out of their way to abuse people and speak like
> acid to them it is my aum in life to rid the internet of scum like you

there was nothing abusive in my response

* question akes ina wrong way
* question answered
* sub thread finished

*then you* decided as so oftento start your abusive bullshit

the only guy who acts abusive all the time you face in your mirror and
so better hire a psychologists because you need seriously help

> centos list BANNED

so what

> fedora list MODERATED

not true for many months

> roundcube list MODERATED

because repsonses like yours in that thread

> dovecot list FINAL WARNING

from you? *laugh*

> apache list FINAL WARNING

from you? *laugh*

> postfix list BANNED

active all the time

> says all anyone needs to know about your modus operandi

and who do you think you are to judge?
get your head closed boy!

> On 11/26/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>>
>> Am 26.11.2014 um 13:19 schrieb Nick Edwards:
>>> how about you get fucked, dictator asswipe your a nobody here so just
>>> fuck off to your own hole you troll every list you join you act like
>>> god but your nothing but an offensive troll nobody
>>
>> what is your problem?
>> i got even a off-list thank you mail in german from the user
>>
>> so just shut up if nobody asked you!
>>
>>> On 11/25/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>>>> * don't hijack threads
>>>> * don't send "unsubscribe" to the whole list
>>>> * just unsubscribe yourself
>>>>
>>>> list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>
>>>>
>>>> the same applies to any other mailing list
>>>> https://www.google.at/#q=how+to+unsubscribe+from+a+mailing+list
>>>>
>>>> Am 25.11.2014 um 14:31 schrieb Ralf Longwitz:
>>>>> Am 25.11.2014 10:41 schrieb "Paul Gardiner":
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I drive spamassassin using spampd.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've just swapped from using opensuse 13.1 to 13.2. That's taken
>>>>> me from spamassassin 3.3.2 to 3.4.0. I have two confusing changes.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) The really problematic one is that I no longer see X-Spam-Level
>>>>> and X-Spam-Status headers in the processed mail. I do still have
>>>>> X-Spam-Checker-Version. I was using status to trigger rejection,
>>>>> so now effectively I have no filtering.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) The confusing one: I used to have many .cf files in
>>>>> /usr/share/spamassassin/. I now have none.
>>>>>
>>>>> As you can probably tell, I don't really know much about
>>>>> spamassassin. I've to some degree been using it out of
>>>>> the box and having it just work. I realise the change could be
>>>>> down to opensuse packaging, but I thought someone here might
>>>>> know best where the problem lies. (I wondered if perhaps now
>>>>> spamassassin requires a cronjob to download and update the
>>>>> rules)
>>>>>
>>>>> Any advice gratefully received

On 11/26/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>
> Am 26.11.2014 um 13:30 schrieb Nick Edwards:
>> my problem is pompus asswipe dictators like you who interfere where
>> not required, and go out of their way to abuse people and speak like
>> acid to them it is my aum in life to rid the internet of scum like you
>
> there was nothing abusive in my response
>
> * question akes ina wrong way
> * question answered
> * sub thread finished
>
> *then you* decided as so oftento start your abusive bullshit
>
> the only guy who acts abusive all the time you face in your mirror and
> so better hire a psychologists because you need seriously help
>
>> centos list BANNED
>
> so what
>
>> fedora list MODERATED
>
> not true for many months
>

oh because you "allegedly" unsubscribed

>> roundcube list MODERATED
>
> because repsonses like yours in that thread
>
>> dovecot list FINAL WARNING
>
> from you? *laugh*
archives show the msg from Timo

>
>> apache list FINAL WARNING
>
> from you? *laugh*

archives show the msg from Guenther

>
>> postfix list BANNED
>
> active all the time
>

no, you were banned, but you resubscribed under another account

>> says all anyone needs to know about your modus operandi
>
> and who do you think you are to judge?
> get your head closed boy!

my head LOL, oh look who's talking you paranoid fool, you accused me
and someone else of being the same person, NEWSFLASH that same
someone else at this very time is rather near you, in Rodenbach
staying with friends, maybe he will pay you a visit LOL


>
>> On 11/26/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Am 26.11.2014 um 13:19 schrieb Nick Edwards:
>>>> how about you get fucked, dictator asswipe your a nobody here so just
>>>> fuck off to your own hole you troll every list you join you act like
>>>> god but your nothing but an offensive troll nobody
>>>
>>> what is your problem?
>>> i got even a off-list thank you mail in german from the user
>>>
>>> so just shut up if nobody asked you!
>>>
>>>> On 11/25/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>>>>> * don't hijack threads
>>>>> * don't send "unsubscribe" to the whole list
>>>>> * just unsubscribe yourself
>>>>>
>>>>> list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> the same applies to any other mailing list
>>>>> https://www.google.at/#q=how+to+unsubscribe+from+a+mailing+list
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 25.11.2014 um 14:31 schrieb Ralf Longwitz:
>>>>>> Am 25.11.2014 10:41 schrieb "Paul Gardiner":
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I drive spamassassin using spampd.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've just swapped from using opensuse 13.1 to 13.2. That's
>>>>>> taken
>>>>>> me from spamassassin 3.3.2 to 3.4.0. I have two confusing
>>>>>> changes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) The really problematic one is that I no longer see
>>>>>> X-Spam-Level
>>>>>> and X-Spam-Status headers in the processed mail. I do still
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> X-Spam-Checker-Version. I was using status to trigger
>>>>>> rejection,
>>>>>> so now effectively I have no filtering.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) The confusing one: I used to have many .cf files in
>>>>>> /usr/share/spamassassin/. I now have none.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you can probably tell, I don't really know much about
>>>>>> spamassassin. I've to some degree been using it out of
>>>>>> the box and having it just work. I realise the change could be
>>>>>> down to opensuse packaging, but I thought someone here might
>>>>>> know best where the problem lies. (I wondered if perhaps now
>>>>>> spamassassin requires a cronjob to download and update the
>>>>>> rules)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any advice gratefully received
>
>

Am 26.11.2014 um 13:46 schrieb Nick Edwards:
> On 11/26/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>>
>> Am 26.11.2014 um 13:30 schrieb Nick Edwards:
>>> my problem is pompus asswipe dictators like you who interfere where
>>> not required, and go out of their way to abuse people and speak like
>>> acid to them it is my aum in life to rid the internet of scum like you
>>
>> there was nothing abusive in my response
>>
>> * question akes ina wrong way
>> * question answered
>> * sub thread finished
>>
>> *then you* decided as so often to start your abusive bullshit
>>
>> the only guy who acts abusive all the time you face in your mirror and
>> so better hire a psychologists because you need seriously help
>>
>>> centos list BANNED
>>
>> so what
>>
>>> fedora list MODERATED
>>
>> not true for many months
>>
> oh because you "allegedly" unsubscribed

bullshit - fedora devel active all the time
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-November/thread.html

>>> roundcube list MODERATED
>>
>> because repsonses like yours in that thread
>>
>>> dovecot list FINAL WARNING
>>
>> from you? *laugh*
> archives show the msg from Timo

the archive shows clearly that the same abusive way you act here was the
reason for the flamewar

>>> apache list FINAL WARNING
>>
>> from you? *laugh*
>
> archives show the msg from Guenther

where?

>>> postfix list BANNED
>>
>> active all the time
>
> no, you were banned, but you resubscribed under another account

and the reason of the ban was a response to a ad hominem attack like you
do all the time

>>> says all anyone needs to know about your modus operandi
>>
>> and who do you think you are to judge?
>> get your head closed boy!
>
> my head LOL, oh look who's talking you paranoid fool, you accused me
> and someone else of being the same person, NEWSFLASH that same
> someone else at this very time is rather near you, in Rodenbach
> staying with friends, maybe he will pay you a visit LOL

why can't you just stop your personal attacks and name callings which
you accuse me all the time but the only guy doing so is you?

creep away and just don't read posts from people you don't like or do
you need a manual for your mail-client?

>>> On 11/26/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Am 26.11.2014 um 13:19 schrieb Nick Edwards:
>>>>> how about you get fucked, dictator asswipe your a nobody here so just
>>>>> fuck off to your own hole you troll every list you join you act like
>>>>> god but your nothing but an offensive troll nobody
>>>>
>>>> what is your problem?
>>>> i got even a off-list thank you mail in german from the user
>>>>
>>>> so just shut up if nobody asked you!
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/25/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>>>>>> * don't hijack threads
>>>>>> * don't send "unsubscribe" to the whole list
>>>>>> * just unsubscribe yourself
>>>>>>
>>>>>> list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the same applies to any other mailing list
>>>>>> https://www.google.at/#q=how+to+unsubscribe+from+a+mailing+list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 25.11.2014 um 14:31 schrieb Ralf Longwitz:
>>>>>>> Am 25.11.2014 10:41 schrieb "Paul Gardiner":
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> I drive spamassassin using spampd.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've just swapped from using opensuse 13.1 to 13.2. That's
>>>>>>> taken
>>>>>>> me from spamassassin 3.3.2 to 3.4.0. I have two confusing
>>>>>>> changes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) The really problematic one is that I no longer see
>>>>>>> X-Spam-Level
>>>>>>> and X-Spam-Status headers in the processed mail. I do still
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> X-Spam-Checker-Version. I was using status to trigger
>>>>>>> rejection,
>>>>>>> so now effectively I have no filtering.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) The confusing one: I used to have many .cf files in
>>>>>>> /usr/share/spamassassin/. I now have none.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As you can probably tell, I don't really know much about
>>>>>>> spamassassin. I've to some degree been using it out of
>>>>>>> the box and having it just work. I realise the change could be
>>>>>>> down to opensuse packaging, but I thought someone here might
>>>>>>> know best where the problem lies. (I wondered if perhaps now
>>>>>>> spamassassin requires a cronjob to download and update the
>>>>>>> rules)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any advice gratefully received

How about you take your own advice. On any of my lists that diatribe would get you banned no questions asked.

On November 26, 2014 7:19:15 AM EST, Nick Edwards <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
>how about you get fucked, dictator asswipe your a nobody here so just
>fuck off to your own hole you troll every list you join you act like
>god but your nothing but an offensive troll nobody
>
>On 11/25/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>> * don't hijack threads
>> * don't send "unsubscribe" to the whole list
>> * just unsubscribe yourself
>>
>> list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>
>>
>> the same applies to any other mailing list
>> https://www.google.at/#q=how+to+unsubscribe+from+a+mailing+list
>>
>> Am 25.11.2014 um 14:31 schrieb Ralf Longwitz:
>>> Am 25.11.2014 10:41 schrieb "Paul Gardiner":
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I drive spamassassin using spampd.
>>>
>>> I've just swapped from using opensuse 13.1 to 13.2. That's taken
>>> me from spamassassin 3.3.2 to 3.4.0. I have two confusing
>changes.
>>>
>>> 1) The really problematic one is that I no longer see
>X-Spam-Level
>>> and X-Spam-Status headers in the processed mail. I do still have
>>> X-Spam-Checker-Version. I was using status to trigger rejection,
>>> so now effectively I have no filtering.
>>>
>>> 2) The confusing one: I used to have many .cf files in
>>> /usr/share/spamassassin/. I now have none.
>>>
>>> As you can probably tell, I don't really know much about
>>> spamassassin. I've to some degree been using it out of
>>> the box and having it just work. I realise the change could be
>>> down to opensuse packaging, but I thought someone here might
>>> know best where the problem lies. (I wondered if perhaps now
>>> spamassassin requires a cronjob to download and update the
>>> rules)
>>>
>>> Any advice gratefully received
>>
>>

--
Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Girls,

Please take your feud offlist.
It's totally offtopic

Thank you

> How about you take your own advice. On any of my lists that diatribe
> would get you banned no questions asked.

I'm always amused by the abusive language people sometimes use on this
list.

Bad language, and personal attacks, reveal a lot more about the person
doing the writing than the person they're trying to attack.

Anthony
--
www.fonant.com - Quality web sites
Tel. 01903 867 810
Fonant Ltd is registered in England and Wales, company No. 7006596
Registered office: Amelia House, Crescent Road, Worthing, West Sussex,
BN11 1QR

I will contribute one post to this thread.

http://marc.info/?l=spamassassin-users&m=141444424117308&w=2

Just saying.

Regards,

David.

--On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 2:06 PM +0100 Axb <axb.lists@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Girls,

^^^^^^^^^ -> Extremely sexist. Please try some other form of insult in the
future. ;)

--Quanah


--

Quanah Gibson-Mount
Server Architect
Zimbra, Inc.
--------------------
Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration

On 11/26/2014 07:54 PM, Quanah Gibson-Mount wrote:
> --On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 2:06 PM +0100 Axb
> <axb.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Girls,
>
> ^^^^^^^^^ -> Extremely sexist. Please try some other form of insult in
> the future. ;)

blame my education or lack of.. 8-P

On Wed, 26 Nov 2014, Anthony Cartmell wrote:

>> How about you take your own advice. On any of my lists that diatribe would
>> get you banned no questions asked.
>
> I'm always amused by the abusive language people sometimes use on this list.
>
> Bad language, and personal attacks, reveal a lot more about the person doing
> the writing than the person they're trying to attack.

Agreed to both points.

Moderator, I am making an official request to ban Nick Edwards
<nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> for abuse. There is no call for and no excuse
for such behavior.

--
John Hardin KA7OHZ http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/
jhardin@impsec.org FALaholic #11174 pgpk -a jhardin@impsec.org
key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Bother," said Pooh as he struggled with /etc/sendmail.cf, "it never
does quite what I want. I wish Christopher Robin was here."
-- Peter da Silva in a.s.r
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
29 days until Christmas

On 11/26/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>> fedora list MODERATED
>>>
>>> not true for many months
>>>
>> oh because you "allegedly" unsubscribed
>
> bullshit - fedora devel active all the time
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-November/thread.html
>

dont mix words reindl im talking about fedora users and you bloody well know it

google reindl and his email address he copped nothing he has not
dished out to others for years, now he plays innocent, thankfully
google does not lie, or hide.


On 11/27/14, John Hardin <jhardin@impsec.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Nov 2014, Anthony Cartmell wrote:
>
>>> How about you take your own advice. On any of my lists that diatribe
>>> would
>
>

On Wednesday 26 November 2014 at 21:05:30 (EU time), John Hardin wrote:

> Moderator, I am making an official request to ban Nick Edwards
> <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> for abuse. There is no call for and no excuse
> for such behavior.

From just an "average member" of this list, seconded.

He's even continuing, despite both parties being asked to take this personal
dispute offlist.


Regards,


Antony.

Am 26.11.2014 um 23:42 schrieb Nick Edwards:
> On 11/26/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>> fedora list MODERATED
>>>>
>>>> not true for many months
>>>>
>>> oh because you "allegedly" unsubscribed
>>
>> bullshit - fedora devel active all the time
>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-November/thread.html
>
> dont mix words reindl im talking about fedora users and you bloody well know it

be precise or shut up *AND IN GENERAL* the past and other lists don#t
matter *AT ALL* and so creep out of my sight at all

what about stop acting like a child?

* i did nothing wrong in my reply caused you again
to start your vendetta

* even if - you are *not* in the position of a judge - *period*

* whatever you criticize i did *never* act in any way like
a asshole as you do here *because* even if i don't find
always nice enough words i *never* attack a person because
of the person - *you do*

so creep away and care about your own stuff
what i do and say is *clearly* not your stuff - nowhere

you are a nobody in context of playing judge

On Wednesday 26 November 2014 at 23:44:10 (EU time), Nick Edwards wrote:

> google reindl and his email address he copped nothing he has not
> dished out to others for years, now he plays innocent, thankfully
> google does not lie, or hide.

We don't care. This list is for SpamAssassin discussions. Please take up
your personal concerns about other members with them personally, not here.


Antony.

--
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but
rather when there is nothing left to take away.

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.

Am 26.11.2014 um 23:44 schrieb Nick Edwards:
> google reindl and his email address he copped nothing he has not
> dished out to others for years, now he plays innocent, thankfully
> google does not lie, or hide.

did you pure asshole ever consider that i try to do my best to be more
nice as been in the past?

who are you that you refer to how acted here and there by beeing *much
more* abusive and personal than *i ever* was?

get a life!

> On 11/27/14, John Hardin <jhardin@impsec.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, 26 Nov 2014, Anthony Cartmell wrote:
>>
>>>> How about you take your own advice. On any of my lists that diatribe
>>>> would

all people have to do is google you,

then they will know the truth about what nasty bit of work you really
are and how you attack people all the time, that and all those list
bannings and moderations should make them realize who they are really
dealing with.


On 11/27/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>
> Am 26.11.2014 um 23:42 schrieb Nick Edwards:
>> On 11/26/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> fedora list MODERATED
>>>>>
>>>>> not true for many months
>>>>>
>>>> oh because you "allegedly" unsubscribed
>>>
>>> bullshit - fedora devel active all the time
>>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-November/thread.html
>>
>> dont mix words reindl im talking about fedora users and you bloody well
>> know it
>
> be precise or shut up *AND IN GENERAL* the past and other lists don#t
> matter *AT ALL* and so creep out of my sight at all
>
> what about stop acting like a child?
>
> * i did nothing wrong in my reply caused you again
> to start your vendetta
>
> * even if - you are *not* in the position of a judge - *period*
>
> * whatever you criticize i did *never* act in any way like
> a asshole as you do here *because* even if i don't find
> always nice enough words i *never* attack a person because
> of the person - *you do*
>
> so creep away and care about your own stuff
> what i do and say is *clearly* not your stuff - nowhere
>
> you are a nobody in context of playing judge
>
>
>

Am 26.11.2014 um 23:54 schrieb Nick Edwards:
> all people have to do is google you,
>
> then they will know the truth about what nasty bit of work you really
> are and how you attack people all the time, that and all those list
> bannings and moderations should make them realize who they are really
> dealing with.

you still don't get it:

if someone should google me the same applies to you:
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.mail.roundcube.user/4500

it is *not* your business to judge *here* hwat i did in say in the past
and somewhere else, especially as long *you* are the real abusive
asshole - and there is no nicer word than asshole for your attitude

when i answer somewhere not that nice i *always* discuss about facts
you are *always* attacking in a pure personal way

care about your own acting and life while leave others in peace

> On 11/27/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>>
>> Am 26.11.2014 um 23:42 schrieb Nick Edwards:
>>> On 11/26/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> fedora list MODERATED
>>>>>>
>>>>>> not true for many months
>>>>>>
>>>>> oh because you "allegedly" unsubscribed
>>>>
>>>> bullshit - fedora devel active all the time
>>>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-November/thread.html
>>>
>>> dont mix words reindl im talking about fedora users and you bloody well
>>> know it
>>
>> be precise or shut up *AND IN GENERAL* the past and other lists don#t
>> matter *AT ALL* and so creep out of my sight at all
>>
>> what about stop acting like a child?
>>
>> * i did nothing wrong in my reply caused you again
>> to start your vendetta
>>
>> * even if - you are *not* in the position of a judge - *period*
>>
>> * whatever you criticize i did *never* act in any way like
>> a asshole as you do here *because* even if i don't find
>> always nice enough words i *never* attack a person because
>> of the person - *you do*
>>
>> so creep away and care about your own stuff
>> what i do and say is *clearly* not your stuff - nowhere
>>
>> you are a nobody in context of playing judge

Holy crap. You're adults, this is a professional list. Start acting like
adults and if you want to continue this pissing match, take this off list.
You're cluttering my inbox, and this is beyond rude to those on the list.

For being anti-spam it sure feels like I'm being sent some right now.
On Nov 26, 2014 6:01 PM, "Reindl Harald" <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:

>
> Am 26.11.2014 um 23:54 schrieb Nick Edwards:
>
>> all people have to do is google you,
>>
>> then they will know the truth about what nasty bit of work you really
>> are and how you attack people all the time, that and all those list
>> bannings and moderations should make them realize who they are really
>> dealing with.
>>
>
> you still don't get it:
>
> if someone should google me the same applies to you:
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.mail.roundcube.user/4500
>
> it is *not* your business to judge *here* hwat i did in say in the past
> and somewhere else, especially as long *you* are the real abusive asshole -
> and there is no nicer word than asshole for your attitude
>
> when i answer somewhere not that nice i *always* discuss about facts
> you are *always* attacking in a pure personal way
>
> care about your own acting and life while leave others in peace
>
> On 11/27/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Am 26.11.2014 um 23:42 schrieb Nick Edwards:
>>>
>>>> On 11/26/14, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> fedora list MODERATED
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> not true for many months
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> oh because you "allegedly" unsubscribed
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bullshit - fedora devel active all the time
>>>>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-
>>>>> November/thread.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> dont mix words reindl im talking about fedora users and you bloody well
>>>> know it
>>>>
>>>
>>> be precise or shut up *AND IN GENERAL* the past and other lists don#t
>>> matter *AT ALL* and so creep out of my sight at all
>>>
>>> what about stop acting like a child?
>>>
>>> * i did nothing wrong in my reply caused you again
>>> to start your vendetta
>>>
>>> * even if - you are *not* in the position of a judge - *period*
>>>
>>> * whatever you criticize i did *never* act in any way like
>>> a asshole as you do here *because* even if i don't find
>>> always nice enough words i *never* attack a person because
>>> of the person - *you do*
>>>
>>> so creep away and care about your own stuff
>>> what i do and say is *clearly* not your stuff - nowhere
>>>
>>> you are a nobody in context of playing judge
>>>
>>
>

On Wed, 26 Nov 2014, Reindl Harald wrote:

> Am 26.11.2014 um 23:44 schrieb Nick Edwards:
>> google reindl and his email address he copped nothing he has not
>> dished out to others for years, now he plays innocent, thankfully
>> google does not lie, or hide.
>
> did you pure asshole ever consider that i try to do my best to be more nice
> as been in the past?

Take it private or you'll get yourself banned too.

--
John Hardin KA7OHZ http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/
jhardin@impsec.org FALaholic #11174 pgpk -a jhardin@impsec.org
key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Bother," said Pooh as he struggled with /etc/sendmail.cf, "it never
does quite what I want. I wish Christopher Robin was here."
-- Peter da Silva in a.s.r
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
29 days until Christmas

On 8/18/2016 10:57 AM, Benjamin E. Nichols wrote:
>
>
>
> Benjamin E. Nichols
>
> http://www.squidblacklist.org
>
>
> 1-405-397-1360 <tel:1-405-397-1360>
>
Documentation on how to unsubscribe from the list can be found on
apache.org or in the notification you received when you first subscribed.

On 08/18/2016 05:05 PM, Joe Quinn wrote:
> On 8/18/2016 10:57 AM, Benjamin E. Nichols wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Benjamin E. Nichols
>>
>> http://www.squidblacklist.org
>>
>>
>> 1-405-397-1360 <tel:1-405-397-1360>
>>
> Documentation on how to unsubscribe from the list can be found on
> apache.org or in the notification you received when you first subscribed.
>

or in every list msg's headers .-)

On Thursday 18 August 2016 at 17:07:31, Axb wrote:

> On 08/18/2016 05:05 PM, Joe Quinn wrote:
> > On 8/18/2016 10:57 AM, Benjamin E. Nichols wrote:
> >> Benjamin E. Nichols
> >>
> >> http://www.squidblacklist.org
> >>
> >>
> >> 1-405-397-1360 <tel:1-405-397-1360>
> >
> > Documentation on how to unsubscribe from the list can be found on
> > apache.org or in the notification you received when you first subscribed.
>
> or in every list msg's headers .-)

Indeed:

list-help: <mailto:users-help@spamassassin.apache.org>
list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>
List-Post: <mailto:users@spamassassin.apache.org>


Antony.

--
Atheism is a non-prophet-making organisation.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.

On 2016-08-18 17:08, Antony Stone wrote:

>> or in every list msg's headers .-)

> Indeed:

squirrelmail have it, i still miss it in roundcube, horde hmm ?,
thunderbird have it as a plugin, microsoft and apple dont give a damm
about it :=)

pick your own battles

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Benjamin E. Nichols wrote:

>  Benjamin  E. Nicholshttp://www.squidblacklist.org
> 1-405-397-1360

Normally I don't respond to unsubscribe requests with this comment to be
polite, but in this case you have shown you don't deserve that
consideration...

The Internet is an intelligence test. You just failed.

--
John Hardin KA7OHZ http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/
jhardin@impsec.org FALaholic #11174 pgpk -a jhardin@impsec.org
key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is when people look at Yahoo, slashdot, or groklaw and
jump from obvious and correct observations like "Oh my God, this
place is teeming with utter morons" to incorrect conclusions like
"there's nothing of value here". -- Al Petrofsky, in Y! SCOX
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
6 days until the 1937th anniversary of the destruction of Pompeii

True that, but it's not entirely obvious how to view the message headers in many of today's mail clients. Of course, if you're on this list, you'd think you'd understand where to find them...


-----Original Message-----
From: John Hardin [mailto:jhardin@impsec.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 4:29 PM
To: users@spamassassin.apache.org
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017, junk@lexoncom.com wrote:
{nothing}

This is a self-service list. To unsubscribe, send an email to "users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org" from the address you wish to unsubscribe.

This is noted in the headers of *every* list message.

On Wed, 5 Apr 2017, Bret Miller wrote:

> True that, but it's not entirely obvious how to view the message headers in many of today's mail clients. Of course, if you're on this list, you'd think you'd understand where to find them...

My MUA recognizes them and exposes them to the user as a link:

[ Note: This message contains email list management information ]



>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Hardin [mailto:jhardin@impsec.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 4:29 PM
> To: users@spamassassin.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Unsubscribe
>
> On Tue, 4 Apr 2017, junk@lexoncom.com wrote:
> {nothing}
>
> This is a self-service list. To unsubscribe, send an email to "users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org" from the address you wish to unsubscribe.
>
> This is noted in the headers of *every* list message.
>

--
John Hardin KA7OHZ http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/
jhardin@impsec.org FALaholic #11174 pgpk -a jhardin@impsec.org
key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The most glaring example of the cognitive dissonance on the left
is the concept that human beings are inherently good, yet at the
same time cannot be trusted with any kind of weapon, unless the
magic fairy dust of government authority gets sprinkled upon them.
-- Moshe Ben-David
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
8 days until Thomas Jefferson's 274th Birthday

On 4/5/2017 11:53 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> * when you subscribe you get a welcome message
> * that message explains it and says "keep me stored"
> * HOW did you subscribe? the same way you unsubscribe

And if I subscribed 2 years ago, do you honestly think I remember how I
subscribed?

> * every mailing list on this planet works the same way

Actually, they don't. Most mailing lists I subscribe to contain an
unsubscribe link at the bottom of the message.

> common sense: how and why do you imagine that 1000, 2000 or how much
> subscribers a list has handle your request?

I don't. I'm just playing the other side here. Techies like us tend to
be unfriendly about the way we communicate. We also expect people to
just know stuff. But for people who are doing multiple jobs, and who
isn't these days, the people who "just know" stuff are fewer.

I would never send an unsubscribe to a list because I know it's bad
etiquette, just like I know that typing in all caps is "shouting". But
people do it all the time without meaning to offend anyone.

The technology world has changed. Many people are used to graphical
interfaces and haven't the slightest idea how to run anything from the
command line. Many of them have never seen a message header, let alone
could read it. I know there should be a higher expectation on this list.
But would it be so bad to add a footer that says how to unsubscribe?

It would be more friendly. And it would help people not offend others.

Just saying...

Bret++

--
Matt Jones

Senior Network Systems Specialist
x3967
@huddsweb





On 05/04/2017, 20:26, "Bret Miller" <bret.miller@gci.org> wrote:

>On 4/5/2017 11:53 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> * when you subscribe you get a welcome message
>> * that message explains it and says "keep me stored"
>> * HOW did you subscribe? the same way you unsubscribe
>
>And if I subscribed 2 years ago, do you honestly think I remember how I
>subscribed?
>
>> * every mailing list on this planet works the same way
>
>Actually, they don't. Most mailing lists I subscribe to contain an
>unsubscribe link at the bottom of the message.
>
>> common sense: how and why do you imagine that 1000, 2000 or how much
>> subscribers a list has handle your request?
>
>I don't. I'm just playing the other side here. Techies like us tend to
>be unfriendly about the way we communicate. We also expect people to
>just know stuff. But for people who are doing multiple jobs, and who
>isn't these days, the people who "just know" stuff are fewer.
>
>I would never send an unsubscribe to a list because I know it's bad
>etiquette, just like I know that typing in all caps is "shouting". But
>people do it all the time without meaning to offend anyone.
>
>The technology world has changed. Many people are used to graphical
>interfaces and haven't the slightest idea how to run anything from the
>command line. Many of them have never seen a message header, let alone
>could read it. I know there should be a higher expectation on this list.
>But would it be so bad to add a footer that says how to unsubscribe?
>
>It would be more friendly. And it would help people not offend others.
>
>Just saying...

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On 2020-12-23 16:22, Richard Ozer wrote:
>
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
<mailto:users-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@netbeans.apache.org
<mailto:users-help@netbeans.apache.org>

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On Wed, 23 Dec 2020, Richard Ozer wrote:

>
>

In the headers of every message from the mailing list:

list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>


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On Wednesday 23 December 2020 at 22:29:50, Alan wrote:

> On 2020-12-23 16:22, Richard Ozer wrote:
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> <mailto:users-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@netbeans.apache.org
> <mailto:users-help@netbeans.apache.org>

Hm, strange - I thought it was (quoting from the headers of any email on this
list):

list-help: <mailto:users-help@spamassassin.apache.org>
list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>
List-Post: <mailto:users@spamassassin.apache.org>
List-Id: <users.spamassassin.apache.org>


Antony.

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On 2020-12-23 16:33, Antony Stone wrote:
> On Wednesday 23 December 2020 at 22:29:50, Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2020-12-23 16:22, Richard Ozer wrote:
>>
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
>> <mailto:users-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@netbeans.apache.org
>> <mailto:users-help@netbeans.apache.org>
> Hm, strange - I thought it was (quoting from the headers of any email on this
> list):
>
> list-help: <mailto:users-help@spamassassin.apache.org>
> list-unsubscribe: <mailto:users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org>
> List-Post: <mailto:users@spamassassin.apache.org>
> List-Id: <users.spamassassin.apache.org>
>
>
> Antony.

Argh. I have a bad case of mailing list schizophrenia. Hence a signature
to remind me where the heck I am. :(

My apologies.

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On 19.02.24 15:03, Dejan Doder wrote:
>Please unsubscribe me from list

We can't, the process is user-driven.

send mail to users-unsubscribe@spamassassin.apache.org
and confirm in the confirmation mail that will be sent to tou.

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