Mailing List Archive

volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig
Hi there,

It's nearing september, and I'd like to start some work on zope.org, in
particular www.zope.org/foundation. I'm looking for volunteers to help.

As you all probably know, we have a Zope Foundation, of which I'm a
board member (representative for the committer members). Aroldo
Souza-Leite is also on the board as chairman.

Aroldo and I are the board members responsible for the zope.org website
committee. The task of the zope.org committee is to improve the zope.org
web presence. Aroldo and I won't be doing the work or decision making
alone, but since we have the backing of the foundation, we can make
decisions stick. Volunteers are welcome to join this committee!

One of the first tasks at hand is to improve the presence of the Zope
Foundation on the web. We currently have a section here:

http://www.zope.org/foundation

This website doesn't look very pretty at all. My proposal is to
reorganize it, have some introductory text, put in links to relevant
information resources, such as mailing lists (including this one), and
to stick a nice layout around it.

This project will serve two purposes:

* to create a nice website for the foundation.

* serve as an example and test case for the wider zope.org renewal project.

So, please help us out.

Layout
------

I propose we use Tom Von Lahndorff's design for the foundation website.
For the purposes of the foundation site we should strip it down:

* no login necessary

* no search (unless we integrate google-based search, perhaps)

* possibly no drop-down menus at the top. We could simply have links
there, or possibly a standard left-hand side navigation. This design is
the top page; we need to see a sub-page design as well.

Tom, are you still there? This time we're going to use what you made
quickly, if you're willing!

Structure and text
------------------

Aroldo and I (Aroldo, I'm volunteering you :) are willing to work on a
bunch of restructured text documents that introduce the zope foundation
and set up the site structure.

Technology
----------

I've said this before, and I'll just repeat it again: let's try to avoid
technology discussions as much as we can. Most of us, including myself,
are techies, so it's attractive to do this, but we just want to put a
website up. This doesn't require any new technology, nor does it require
a heavy-duty CMS.

To break my own rule on no technology discussions right way:

I propose letting www.zope.org/foundation point to a Apache directory,
where we maintain HTML files. We will then generate such HTML files from
restructured text we maintain in the zope SVN repository, using a simple
script that drives docutils.

If you want examples of websites that are managed this way and I have
personal experience with, check out the following places on codespeak:

http://codespeak.net/z3/

http://codespeak.net/lxml/

Since we're not aiming for a big site, this should be sufficient technology.

For the larger zope.org, we may need something else, or we may not.
Let's treat the foundation website as a trial case here too, and see how
we like it.

There's one alternative to this approach that will also work on the
short term: a volunteer that's willing to work with zope.org and
integrate the layout and text and structure we want into existing
zope.org infrastructure. If someone volunteers to work on this, I'd be
happy to do it that way as well. Does anyone volunteer?

Any other technological approaches require more setup and I'd like to
defer them for the time being. We can take them up when we tackle
zope.org proper.

I hope we can all have this together in a couple of weeks, so let's
start working!

Regards,

Martijn
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> It's nearing september, and I'd like to start some work on zope.org, in
> particular www.zope.org/foundation. I'm looking for volunteers to help.
>

[...]

>
> I hope we can all have this together in a couple of weeks, so let's
> start working!
>

I liked what i read, count me in.

Michael

--
http://zope.org/Members/d2m
http://planetzope.org

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
What's up with zopefoundation.org - especially since it's changed since I
looked at it yesterday? :P)

A


On 8/22/06 1:43 PM, "Martijn Faassen" <faassen@infrae.com> wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> It's nearing september, and I'd like to start some work on zope.org, in
> particular www.zope.org/foundation. I'm looking for volunteers to help.
>
> As you all probably know, we have a Zope Foundation, of which I'm a
> board member (representative for the committer members). Aroldo
> Souza-Leite is also on the board as chairman.
>
> Aroldo and I are the board members responsible for the zope.org website
> committee. The task of the zope.org committee is to improve the zope.org
> web presence. Aroldo and I won't be doing the work or decision making
> alone, but since we have the backing of the foundation, we can make
> decisions stick. Volunteers are welcome to join this committee!
>
> One of the first tasks at hand is to improve the presence of the Zope
> Foundation on the web. We currently have a section here:
>
> http://www.zope.org/foundation
>
> This website doesn't look very pretty at all. My proposal is to
> reorganize it, have some introductory text, put in links to relevant
> information resources, such as mailing lists (including this one), and
> to stick a nice layout around it.
>
> This project will serve two purposes:
>
> * to create a nice website for the foundation.
>
> * serve as an example and test case for the wider zope.org renewal project.
>
> So, please help us out.
>
> Layout
> ------
>
> I propose we use Tom Von Lahndorff's design for the foundation website.
> For the purposes of the foundation site we should strip it down:
>
> * no login necessary
>
> * no search (unless we integrate google-based search, perhaps)
>
> * possibly no drop-down menus at the top. We could simply have links
> there, or possibly a standard left-hand side navigation. This design is
> the top page; we need to see a sub-page design as well.
>
> Tom, are you still there? This time we're going to use what you made
> quickly, if you're willing!
>
> Structure and text
> ------------------
>
> Aroldo and I (Aroldo, I'm volunteering you :) are willing to work on a
> bunch of restructured text documents that introduce the zope foundation
> and set up the site structure.
>
> Technology
> ----------
>
> I've said this before, and I'll just repeat it again: let's try to avoid
> technology discussions as much as we can. Most of us, including myself,
> are techies, so it's attractive to do this, but we just want to put a
> website up. This doesn't require any new technology, nor does it require
> a heavy-duty CMS.
>
> To break my own rule on no technology discussions right way:
>
> I propose letting www.zope.org/foundation point to a Apache directory,
> where we maintain HTML files. We will then generate such HTML files from
> restructured text we maintain in the zope SVN repository, using a simple
> script that drives docutils.
>
> If you want examples of websites that are managed this way and I have
> personal experience with, check out the following places on codespeak:
>
> http://codespeak.net/z3/
>
> http://codespeak.net/lxml/
>
> Since we're not aiming for a big site, this should be sufficient technology.
>
> For the larger zope.org, we may need something else, or we may not.
> Let's treat the foundation website as a trial case here too, and see how
> we like it.
>
> There's one alternative to this approach that will also work on the
> short term: a volunteer that's willing to work with zope.org and
> integrate the layout and text and structure we want into existing
> zope.org infrastructure. If someone volunteers to work on this, I'd be
> happy to do it that way as well. Does anyone volunteer?
>
> Any other technological approaches require more setup and I'd like to
> defer them for the time being. We can take them up when we tackle
> zope.org proper.
>
> I hope we can all have this together in a couple of weeks, so let's
> start working!
>
> Regards,
>
> Martijn
> _______________________________________________
> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web


_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
I'm here. I'll tweak the design per the suggestions below and send it
out. I actually worked on another one since then. Ill send that out
as well.


On Aug 22, 2006, at 1:43 PM, Martijn Faassen wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> It's nearing september, and I'd like to start some work on
> zope.org, in particular www.zope.org/foundation. I'm looking for
> volunteers to help.
>
> As you all probably know, we have a Zope Foundation, of which I'm a
> board member (representative for the committer members). Aroldo
> Souza-Leite is also on the board as chairman.
>
> Aroldo and I are the board members responsible for the zope.org
> website committee. The task of the zope.org committee is to improve
> the zope.org web presence. Aroldo and I won't be doing the work or
> decision making alone, but since we have the backing of the
> foundation, we can make decisions stick. Volunteers are welcome to
> join this committee!
>
> One of the first tasks at hand is to improve the presence of the
> Zope Foundation on the web. We currently have a section here:
>
> http://www.zope.org/foundation
>
> This website doesn't look very pretty at all. My proposal is to
> reorganize it, have some introductory text, put in links to
> relevant information resources, such as mailing lists (including
> this one), and to stick a nice layout around it.
>
> This project will serve two purposes:
>
> * to create a nice website for the foundation.
>
> * serve as an example and test case for the wider zope.org renewal
> project.
>
> So, please help us out.
>
> Layout
> ------
>
> I propose we use Tom Von Lahndorff's design for the foundation
> website. For the purposes of the foundation site we should strip it
> down:
>
> * no login necessary
>
> * no search (unless we integrate google-based search, perhaps)
>
> * possibly no drop-down menus at the top. We could simply have
> links there, or possibly a standard left-hand side navigation. This
> design is the top page; we need to see a sub-page design as well.
>
> Tom, are you still there? This time we're going to use what you
> made quickly, if you're willing!
>
> Structure and text
> ------------------
>
> Aroldo and I (Aroldo, I'm volunteering you :) are willing to work
> on a bunch of restructured text documents that introduce the zope
> foundation and set up the site structure.
>
> Technology
> ----------
>
> I've said this before, and I'll just repeat it again: let's try to
> avoid technology discussions as much as we can. Most of us,
> including myself, are techies, so it's attractive to do this, but
> we just want to put a website up. This doesn't require any new
> technology, nor does it require a heavy-duty CMS.
>
> To break my own rule on no technology discussions right way:
>
> I propose letting www.zope.org/foundation point to a Apache
> directory, where we maintain HTML files. We will then generate such
> HTML files from restructured text we maintain in the zope SVN
> repository, using a simple script that drives docutils.
>
> If you want examples of websites that are managed this way and I
> have personal experience with, check out the following places on
> codespeak:
>
> http://codespeak.net/z3/
>
> http://codespeak.net/lxml/
>
> Since we're not aiming for a big site, this should be sufficient
> technology.
>
> For the larger zope.org, we may need something else, or we may not.
> Let's treat the foundation website as a trial case here too, and
> see how we like it.
>
> There's one alternative to this approach that will also work on the
> short term: a volunteer that's willing to work with zope.org and
> integrate the layout and text and structure we want into existing
> zope.org infrastructure. If someone volunteers to work on this, I'd
> be happy to do it that way as well. Does anyone volunteer?
>
> Any other technological approaches require more setup and I'd like
> to defer them for the time being. We can take them up when we
> tackle zope.org proper.
>
> I hope we can all have this together in a couple of weeks, so let's
> start working!
>
> Regards,
>
> Martijn

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
On 8/22/06, Martijn Faassen <faassen@infrae.com> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> It's nearing september, and I'd like to start some work on zope.org, in
> particular www.zope.org/foundation. I'm looking for volunteers to help.
>
> As you all probably know, we have a Zope Foundation, of which I'm a
> board member (representative for the committer members). Aroldo
> Souza-Leite is also on the board as chairman.

Well, as already mentioned, I'd love to help. That said I'm not sure I
have much i can do on this particular task, but maybe. :)

> I propose letting www.zope.org/foundation point to a Apache directory,
> where we maintain HTML files. We will then generate such HTML files from
> restructured text we maintain in the zope SVN repository, using a simple
> script that drives docutils.

I'm torn between on one hand, the sillyness of not using Zope + what I
think is a bit tricky from a maintaining point of view and on the
other hand, the benefit of having things versioned.

I have worked with the codespeak stuff, and I can't really say I like
it, although it makes sense when it comes to code, with the automatic
tarball generation form release tags and all that.

In the end, what I care most about it that things happen now. So if
this is faster than setting up a plone/cps/silva site, then by all
means, go ahead.

> There's one alternative to this approach that will also work on the
> short term: a volunteer that's willing to work with zope.org and
> integrate the layout and text and structure we want into existing
> zope.org infrastructure. If someone volunteers to work on this, I'd be
> happy to do it that way as well. Does anyone volunteer?

No. :-)

However, integrating that layout into something that can be used
primarily on Plone (or CPS. Or maybe both, with CPSSkins) usable for
any *.zope.org microsites seems to be to be a worthwhile task.

> I hope we can all have this together in a couple of weeks,

Weeks? Wasn't it working yesterday? :-)

On 8/22/06, Andrew Sawyers <andrew@sawdog.com> wrote:
> What's up with zopefoundation.org - especially since it's changed since I
> looked at it yesterday? :P)

Yeah, I second that question. :^) It seems to me that the fastest way
of doing this is doing what was done yesterday, and redirecting
www.zope.org/foundation there.

--
Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/
CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
http://modscape.com/zope
I added "Design 2". I like it much better than "Design 1". I think we
should work off of "Design 2" Thoughts?


On Aug 22, 2006, at 1:43 PM, Martijn Faassen wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> It's nearing september, and I'd like to start some work on
> zope.org, in particular www.zope.org/foundation. I'm looking for
> volunteers to help.
>
> As you all probably know, we have a Zope Foundation, of which I'm a
> board member (representative for the committer members). Aroldo
> Souza-Leite is also on the board as chairman.
>
> Aroldo and I are the board members responsible for the zope.org
> website committee. The task of the zope.org committee is to improve
> the zope.org web presence. Aroldo and I won't be doing the work or
> decision making alone, but since we have the backing of the
> foundation, we can make decisions stick. Volunteers are welcome to
> join this committee!
>
> One of the first tasks at hand is to improve the presence of the
> Zope Foundation on the web. We currently have a section here:
>
> http://www.zope.org/foundation
>
> This website doesn't look very pretty at all. My proposal is to
> reorganize it, have some introductory text, put in links to
> relevant information resources, such as mailing lists (including
> this one), and to stick a nice layout around it.
>
> This project will serve two purposes:
>
> * to create a nice website for the foundation.
>
> * serve as an example and test case for the wider zope.org renewal
> project.
>
> So, please help us out.
>
> Layout
> ------
>
> I propose we use Tom Von Lahndorff's design for the foundation
> website. For the purposes of the foundation site we should strip it
> down:
>
> * no login necessary
>
> * no search (unless we integrate google-based search, perhaps)
>
> * possibly no drop-down menus at the top. We could simply have
> links there, or possibly a standard left-hand side navigation. This
> design is the top page; we need to see a sub-page design as well.
>
> Tom, are you still there? This time we're going to use what you
> made quickly, if you're willing!
>
> Structure and text
> ------------------
>
> Aroldo and I (Aroldo, I'm volunteering you :) are willing to work
> on a bunch of restructured text documents that introduce the zope
> foundation and set up the site structure.
>
> Technology
> ----------
>
> I've said this before, and I'll just repeat it again: let's try to
> avoid technology discussions as much as we can. Most of us,
> including myself, are techies, so it's attractive to do this, but
> we just want to put a website up. This doesn't require any new
> technology, nor does it require a heavy-duty CMS.
>
> To break my own rule on no technology discussions right way:
>
> I propose letting www.zope.org/foundation point to a Apache
> directory, where we maintain HTML files. We will then generate such
> HTML files from restructured text we maintain in the zope SVN
> repository, using a simple script that drives docutils.
>
> If you want examples of websites that are managed this way and I
> have personal experience with, check out the following places on
> codespeak:
>
> http://codespeak.net/z3/
>
> http://codespeak.net/lxml/
>
> Since we're not aiming for a big site, this should be sufficient
> technology.
>
> For the larger zope.org, we may need something else, or we may not.
> Let's treat the foundation website as a trial case here too, and
> see how we like it.
>
> There's one alternative to this approach that will also work on the
> short term: a volunteer that's willing to work with zope.org and
> integrate the layout and text and structure we want into existing
> zope.org infrastructure. If someone volunteers to work on this, I'd
> be happy to do it that way as well. Does anyone volunteer?
>
> Any other technological approaches require more setup and I'd like
> to defer them for the time being. We can take them up when we
> tackle zope.org proper.
>
> I hope we can all have this together in a couple of weeks, so let's
> start working!
>
> Regards,
>
> Martijn

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
Andrew Sawyers wrote:
> What's up with zopefoundation.org - especially since it's changed since I
> looked at it yesterday? :P)

We were making sure zopefoundation.org points to
www.zope.org/foundation. zopefoundation.org was on a completely separate
system that Mark Pratt was kind enough to set up for us, but the board
decided it was not for us for the time being. Since then we've made
zopefoundation.org point to the canonical location, which is, to repeat:

http://www.zope.org/foundation

Regards,

Martijn
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
>
> I'm here. I'll tweak the design per the suggestions below and send it
> out. I actually worked on another one since then. Ill send that out as
> well.

Tom, you're awesome! Thanks!

Regards,

Martijn
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
Lennart Regebro wrote:
> On 8/22/06, Martijn Faassen <faassen@infrae.com> wrote:
[snip]
>> I propose letting www.zope.org/foundation point to a Apache directory,
>> where we maintain HTML files. We will then generate such HTML files from
>> restructured text we maintain in the zope SVN repository, using a simple
>> script that drives docutils.
>
> I'm torn between on one hand, the sillyness of not using Zope + what I
> think is a bit tricky from a maintaining point of view and on the
> other hand, the benefit of having things versioned.
>
> I have worked with the codespeak stuff, and I can't really say I like
> it, although it makes sense when it comes to code, with the automatic
> tarball generation form release tags and all that.

Yes, this strategy indeed makes more sense with code (where
documentation is often maintained along with the code) than with
something like this site.

> In the end, what I care most about it that things happen now. So if
> this is faster than setting up a plone/cps/silva site, then by all
> means, go ahead.

I do think it's faster to get going with this.

[snip]
> However, integrating that layout into something that can be used
> primarily on Plone (or CPS. Or maybe both, with CPSSkins) usable for
> any *.zope.org microsites seems to be to be a worthwhile task.

That's a very welcome offer! We have a (hopefully still) standing offer
from the Plone community to host the site on the plone.org
infrastructure that we definitely need to investigate.

>> I hope we can all have this together in a couple of weeks,
>
> Weeks? Wasn't it working yesterday? :-)
>
> On 8/22/06, Andrew Sawyers <andrew@sawdog.com> wrote:
>> What's up with zopefoundation.org - especially since it's changed since I
>> looked at it yesterday? :P)
>
> Yeah, I second that question. :^) It seems to me that the fastest way
> of doing this is doing what was done yesterday, and redirecting
> www.zope.org/foundation there.

Unfortunately it was in a hosted environment entirely separate from
zope.org or even the zope community as far as I'm aware. We also had the
impression that it seemed to offer limited content management facilities
- more facilities to maintain members and so on, but we don't have a
need for something like that just yet.

Regards,

Martijn

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
On 8/23/06, Martijn Faassen <faassen@infrae.com> wrote:
> I do think it's faster to get going with this.

OK. We can always switch. I have a mantra: "If it works now, then use
it". This means to never hold out for something that might be better
in the future, because it aint gonna happen. :)

> > However, integrating that layout into something that can be used
> > primarily on Plone (or CPS. Or maybe both, with CPSSkins) usable for
> > any *.zope.org microsites seems to be to be a worthwhile task.
>
> That's a very welcome offer! We have a (hopefully still) standing offer
> from the Plone community to host the site on the plone.org
> infrastructure that we definitely need to investigate.

I have never adapted a design for Plone (or even CPS for that matter)
so I have no idea what kind of effort is involved. I have heard evil
things though. :-) Maybe we can start a product to hold the skins
somewhere, so several people can work on different bits of it?

> > Yeah, I second that question. :^) It seems to me that the fastest way
> > of doing this is doing what was done yesterday, and redirecting
> > www.zope.org/foundation there.
>
> Unfortunately it was in a hosted environment entirely separate from
> zope.org or even the zope community as far as I'm aware. We also had the
> impression that it seemed to offer limited content management facilities
> - more facilities to maintain members and so on, but we don't have a
> need for something like that just yet.

So, is there a reason NOT to use it? And if there is, is there a
reason not to use it temporarily. Pointing it there now, and switching
to a script based system in a couple of weeks, would be much better
than just switching in a couple of weeks, imo.

--
Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/
CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
Hi,

>>> I hope we can all have this together in a couple of weeks,
>> Weeks? Wasn't it working yesterday? :-)
>> On 8/22/06, Andrew Sawyers <andrew@sawdog.com> wrote:
>>> What's up with zopefoundation.org - especially since it's changed
>>> since I
>>> looked at it yesterday? :P)
>> Yeah, I second that question. :^) It seems to me that the fastest way
>> of doing this is doing what was done yesterday, and redirecting
>> www.zope.org/foundation there.
>
> Unfortunately it was in a hosted environment entirely separate from
> zope.org or even the zope community as far as I'm aware. We also
> had the impression that it seemed to offer limited content
> management facilities - more facilities to maintain members and so
> on, but we don't have a need for something like that just yet.

Well, considering what kind of files are currently posted on
www.zope.org/foundation (these seem to be all .pdf files) these could
have been easily posted in the File Center of "yesterdays"
www.zopefoundation.org site.

For an example of another site doing this see:

http://new.ispad.org/FileCenter.html

The previous system certainly does offer limited CMS capabilities (by
design) ... but so far I don't see any content that would prove a
problem.

The goal was to help out the foundation quickly *have a presence*.
For this reason I took the initiative and coordinated with Rob and
Tom and our designer/developers and our hosting provider to set
something up right away -- to build momentum.

If the foundation liked the system great / if not than at least there
was something to start with and later to copy and paste to another
site/cms once it was ready. Now we don't have a foundation website to
speak of and "weeks" to wait until we have something comparable?

Doesn't matter what system is used but we certainly have less than
before -- unless anybody considers a zope.org page with 8 pdf
downloads progress.

Anyway, good luck with that.

Regards,

Mark




_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
On 23 Aug 2006, at 12:57, Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:

>
> http://modscape.com/zope
> I added "Design 2". I like it much better than "Design 1". I think
> we should work off of "Design 2" Thoughts?

My vote is for Design 1. IMHO Design 2 gives me this gut feeling of a
site that wants to be overly flashy or fashionable. It looks less
"business-like". I perceive design 1 as cleaner, the different boxes
and content areas are more delineated as well.

jens


_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
Mark Pratt wrote:
[snip]
> Doesn't matter what system is used but we certainly have less than
> before -- unless anybody considers a zope.org page with 8 pdf downloads
> progress.

I agree we have less than before, sorry. Then again, before we had two
foundation websites with diverging information, and now we have one, so
that's progress. :)

Regards,

Martijn
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
Martijn Faassen wrote:
> I propose we use Tom Von Lahndorff's design for the foundation website.
> For the purposes of the foundation site we should strip it down:

+lots

> * possibly no drop-down menus at the top. We could simply have links
> there, or possibly a standard left-hand side navigation. This design is
> the top page; we need to see a sub-page design as well.

I like the dropdowns ;-)

> I propose letting www.zope.org/foundation point to a Apache directory,
> where we maintain HTML files. We will then generate such HTML files from
> restructured text we maintain in the zope SVN repository, using a simple
> script that drives docutils.

+1

> There's one alternative to this approach that will also work on the
> short term: a volunteer that's willing to work with zope.org and
> integrate the layout and text and structure we want into existing
> zope.org infrastructure. If someone volunteers to work on this, I'd be
> happy to do it that way as well. Does anyone volunteer?

-1

comments-from-peanut-gallery-ly yours,

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
Martijn Faassen wrote:
>
> I agree we have less than before, sorry. Then again, before we had two
> foundation websites with diverging information, and now we have one, so
> that's progress. :)

+1

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
Chris Withers wrote:
> Martijn Faassen wrote:

>> * possibly no drop-down menus at the top. We could simply have links
>> there, or possibly a standard left-hand side navigation. This design
>> is the top page; we need to see a sub-page design as well.
>
> I like the dropdowns ;-)

Tom said he'd work on a version without dropdowns, so we'll see; I'm
leaning strongly to a non-dropdown structure myself. I think a version
without dropdowns might fit better in, say, a Plone site, which is
interesting as we're exploring the plone.org hosting infrastructure
offer as well.

Regards,

Martijn
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Tom said he'd work on a version without dropdowns, so we'll see; I'm
> leaning strongly to a non-dropdown structure myself. I think a version
> without dropdowns might fit better in, say, a Plone site, which is
> interesting as we're exploring the plone.org hosting infrastructure
> offer as well.

I really don't see how the two are related...

Dropdowns can be implemented in php, python or flat html, or even a
Plone site...

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
On 8/25/06, Chris Withers <chris@simplistix.co.uk> wrote:
> Dropdowns can be implemented in php, python or flat html, or even a
> Plone site...

Without using hover? Dropdowns on hover are immensly annoying, since
they flyout just if you move the mouse over the menu, and because you
need to take care not to "touch" another part of the menu when
selecting something in the submenu, because then another submenu will
fly out.

If you can, in pure CSS and without JS, make a dropdown menu that
works on clicks, and/or with a hover delay, that works both on IE and
firefox, and on other browsers fall back to a non-dropdown menu in a
useable and accessible manner, then I'd be happy with drop-downs. :-)

--
Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/
CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
Yeah, thats the problem. Because IE6 doesnt fully support the hover
function in CSS you need a javascript 'hack' to get a flyout to work.
It actually a very small and clean script, but an IE hack
nonetheless. More info here:

http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/

I think we could have submenus display under the menu item once a
section is clicked, but until IE gets it together (Im not reading too
many promising reviews of IE7) we should probably avoid any 'IE hacks'.


On Aug 25, 2006, at 5:28 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote:

> On 8/25/06, Chris Withers <chris@simplistix.co.uk> wrote:
>> Dropdowns can be implemented in php, python or flat html, or even a
>> Plone site...
>
> Without using hover? Dropdowns on hover are immensly annoying, since
> they flyout just if you move the mouse over the menu, and because you
> need to take care not to "touch" another part of the menu when
> selecting something in the submenu, because then another submenu will
> fly out.
>
> If you can, in pure CSS and without JS, make a dropdown menu that
> works on clicks, and/or with a hover delay, that works both on IE and
> firefox, and on other browsers fall back to a non-dropdown menu in a
> useable and accessible manner, then I'd be happy with drop-downs. :-)
>
> --
> Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/
> CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
On 8/25/06, Tom Von Lahndorff <tom@modscape.com> wrote:
>
> Yeah, thats the problem. Because IE6 doesnt fully support the hover
> function in CSS you need a javascript 'hack' to get a flyout to work.

Nono, we don't WANT it to flyout. On-hover menus is a pain in the ass.
We want it to flyout when we klick. That's the problem.
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
Chris Withers wrote:
> Martijn Faassen wrote:
>> Tom said he'd work on a version without dropdowns, so we'll see; I'm
>> leaning strongly to a non-dropdown structure myself. I think a version
>> without dropdowns might fit better in, say, a Plone site, which is
>> interesting as we're exploring the plone.org hosting infrastructure
>> offer as well.
>
> I really don't see how the two are related...
>
> Dropdowns can be implemented in php, python or flat html, or even a
> Plone site...

Oh, I'm not saying Plone can't do it, I'm well aware that this is
possible. I meant to say that www.plone.org in particular uses a
different structure for navigation, and if we want to mimic their
success and use their technology, we might want to mimic their
navigation. (not that I'm saying it's at all certain we will use their
technology)

Anyway, quite apart from that, I prefer left-hand side navigation. :)

Regards,

Martijn

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
>
> Yeah, thats the problem. Because IE6 doesnt fully support the hover
> function in CSS you need a javascript 'hack' to get a flyout to work. It
> actually a very small and clean script, but an IE hack nonetheless. More
> info here:
>
> http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/
>
> I think we could have submenus display under the menu item once a
> section is clicked, but until IE gets it together (Im not reading too
> many promising reviews of IE7) we should probably avoid any 'IE hacks'.

Instead of worrying about the drop-downs too much, I'd really like to
see a template that uses a fairly standard left-hand-side navigation
(perhaps with major categories on the top). www.plone.org uses this
pattern, for instance.

Regards,

Martijn
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: Re: volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig [ In reply to ]
Working on it. :)

On Aug 25, 2006, at 6:59 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote:

> Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
>> Yeah, thats the problem. Because IE6 doesnt fully support the
>> hover function in CSS you need a javascript 'hack' to get a flyout
>> to work. It actually a very small and clean script, but an IE hack
>> nonetheless. More info here:
>> http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/
>> I think we could have submenus display under the menu item once a
>> section is clicked, but until IE gets it together (Im not reading
>> too many promising reviews of IE7) we should probably avoid any
>> 'IE hacks'.
>
> Instead of worrying about the drop-downs too much, I'd really like
> to see a template that uses a fairly standard left-hand-side
> navigation (perhaps with major categories on the top).
> www.plone.org uses this pattern, for instance.
>
> Regards,
>
> Martijn

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web