Mailing List Archive

Chris Withers wrote:
> Is there nothing we can help Andreas to do to purge the caches when he
> does a release so Michael doesn't have to deal with everyone who gets
> the "insufficient priveleges" message?

I'd be happy to help if there are instructions on how to.

Jim

--
Jim Fulton mailto:jim@zope.com Python Powered!
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For now, I've edited the Products page, http://www.zope.org/Products/
to havs static links to the 2.8.3 windows and source releases. I don't
know if this is good enough. If it isn't, let me know and I'll try to hack more
pages. Sigh.

Jim

Chris Withers wrote:
> Is there nothing we can help Andreas to do to purge the caches when he
> does a release so Michael doesn't have to deal with everyone who gets
> the "insufficient priveleges" message?
>
> I wonder how many people are actually turning away from Zope due to the
> shocking state of Zope.org?
>
> cheers,
>
> Chris
>
> Michael Haubenwallner wrote:
>
>> Dieter Fischer wrote:
>>
>>> even when I'm logged in.
>>>
>>
>> Hi Dieter,
>> this is a caching problem we experience sometimes when new releases
>> are published.
>>
>> Please use http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope/2.8.3/folder_contents
>> for now - the other link should be accessible within a few hours.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>


--
Jim Fulton mailto:jim@zope.com Python Powered!
CTO (540) 361-1714 http://www.python.org
Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
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I'm inclined to make the Zope 2, Zope 3, and possibly the ZODB release areas
totally static. This would mean that making a new release would require
using the ZMI to create a subfolder (e.g. for 2.8.3) and editing some number
of pages by hand.

Any objections?

Anybody wanna help?

Jim

Jim Fulton wrote:
> For now, I've edited the Products page, http://www.zope.org/Products/
> to havs static links to the 2.8.3 windows and source releases. I don't
> know if this is good enough. If it isn't, let me know and I'll try to
> hack more
> pages. Sigh.
>
> Jim
>
> Chris Withers wrote:
>
>> Is there nothing we can help Andreas to do to purge the caches when he
>> does a release so Michael doesn't have to deal with everyone who gets
>> the "insufficient priveleges" message?
>>
>> I wonder how many people are actually turning away from Zope due to
>> the shocking state of Zope.org?
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Michael Haubenwallner wrote:
>>
>>> Dieter Fischer wrote:
>>>
>>>> even when I'm logged in.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Dieter,
>>> this is a caching problem we experience sometimes when new releases
>>> are published.
>>>
>>> Please use http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope/2.8.3/folder_contents
>>> for now - the other link should be accessible within a few hours.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>
>
>


--
Jim Fulton mailto:jim@zope.com Python Powered!
CTO (540) 361-1714 http://www.python.org
Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
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This would solve which problems?

Andreas

--On 19. Oktober 2005 14:04:23 -0400 Jim Fulton <jim@zope.com> wrote:

> I'm inclined to make the Zope 2, Zope 3, and possibly the ZODB release
> areas
> totally static. This would mean that making a new release would require
> using the ZMI to create a subfolder (e.g. for 2.8.3) and editing some
> number
> of pages by hand.
>
> Any objections?
>
> Anybody wanna help?
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Fulton wrote:
>> For now, I've edited the Products page, http://www.zope.org/Products/
>> to havs static links to the 2.8.3 windows and source releases. I don't
>> know if this is good enough. If it isn't, let me know and I'll try to
>> hack more
>> pages. Sigh.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> Chris Withers wrote:
>>
>>> Is there nothing we can help Andreas to do to purge the caches when he
>>> does a release so Michael doesn't have to deal with everyone who gets
>>> the "insufficient priveleges" message?
>>>
>>> I wonder how many people are actually turning away from Zope due to
>>> the shocking state of Zope.org?
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> Michael Haubenwallner wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dieter Fischer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> even when I'm logged in.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Dieter,
>>>> this is a caching problem we experience sometimes when new releases
>>>> are published.
>>>>
>>>> Please use http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope/2.8.3/folder_contents
>>>> for now - the other link should be accessible within a few hours.
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Jim Fulton mailto:jim@zope.com Python Powered!
> CTO (540) 361-1714 http://www.python.org
> Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org

We think we understand the problem now.

It is cache related.

We've changed the caching policy so that the pages in question aren't cached.

The problem ocurred because:

- The product product has the *insane* policy that if any files aren't
published, the entire product is inaccessible.

Does anyone know how to fix this? Is there a knob for this somewhere in
CMF?

- Tim uploaded a windows exe.

- before he could change it's state, someone tried to access the product
and got redirected to a login form. This got cached somehow.

If we decode we do want to cache these pages, we may want a policy that
a release should not be announced until all of the files have been uploaded.
Alternatively, a number of people need to know how to reset the cache.

Andrew will have more to say about the caching issues.

I've revered the products page to be the way it was before.

I retract my proposal to make this static -- for now.

Jim

Jim Fulton wrote:
> I'm inclined to make the Zope 2, Zope 3, and possibly the ZODB release
> areas
> totally static. This would mean that making a new release would require
> using the ZMI to create a subfolder (e.g. for 2.8.3) and editing some
> number
> of pages by hand.
>
> Any objections?
>
> Anybody wanna help?
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Fulton wrote:
>
>> For now, I've edited the Products page, http://www.zope.org/Products/
>> to havs static links to the 2.8.3 windows and source releases. I don't
>> know if this is good enough. If it isn't, let me know and I'll try to
>> hack more
>> pages. Sigh.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> Chris Withers wrote:
>>
>>> Is there nothing we can help Andreas to do to purge the caches when
>>> he does a release so Michael doesn't have to deal with everyone who
>>> gets the "insufficient priveleges" message?
>>>
>>> I wonder how many people are actually turning away from Zope due to
>>> the shocking state of Zope.org?
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> Michael Haubenwallner wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dieter Fischer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> even when I'm logged in.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Dieter,
>>>> this is a caching problem we experience sometimes when new releases
>>>> are published.
>>>>
>>>> Please use http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope/2.8.3/folder_contents
>>>> for now - the other link should be accessible within a few hours.
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


--
Jim Fulton mailto:jim@zope.com Python Powered!
CTO (540) 361-1714 http://www.python.org
Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

Andreas Jung wrote:
> This would solve which problems?

We were in a state in which no one could download 2.8.3
using the widely available URLs. This is something we wrestled
with when we made the 3.0 release and I was sick of it.

We appear now to have this somewhat under control now.

Jim

> Andreas
>
> --On 19. Oktober 2005 14:04:23 -0400 Jim Fulton <jim@zope.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm inclined to make the Zope 2, Zope 3, and possibly the ZODB release
>> areas
>> totally static. This would mean that making a new release would require
>> using the ZMI to create a subfolder (e.g. for 2.8.3) and editing some
>> number
>> of pages by hand.
>>
>> Any objections?
>>
>> Anybody wanna help?
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> Jim Fulton wrote:
>>
>>> For now, I've edited the Products page, http://www.zope.org/Products/
>>> to havs static links to the 2.8.3 windows and source releases. I don't
>>> know if this is good enough. If it isn't, let me know and I'll try to
>>> hack more
>>> pages. Sigh.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> Chris Withers wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is there nothing we can help Andreas to do to purge the caches when he
>>>> does a release so Michael doesn't have to deal with everyone who gets
>>>> the "insufficient priveleges" message?
>>>>
>>>> I wonder how many people are actually turning away from Zope due to
>>>> the shocking state of Zope.org?
>>>>
>>>> cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> Michael Haubenwallner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dieter Fischer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> even when I'm logged in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Dieter,
>>>>> this is a caching problem we experience sometimes when new releases
>>>>> are published.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please use http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope/2.8.3/folder_contents
>>>>> for now - the other link should be accessible within a few hours.
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Fulton mailto:jim@zope.com Python Powered!
>> CTO (540) 361-1714 http://www.python.org
>> Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org
>
>
>
>


--
Jim Fulton mailto:jim@zope.com Python Powered!
CTO (540) 361-1714 http://www.python.org
Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 03:25:11PM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote:
| - The product product has the *insane* policy that if any files aren't
| published, the entire product is inaccessible.
|
| Does anyone know how to fix this? Is there a knob for this somewhere in
| CMF?

I don't think that's a CMF 'feature', unless the product is using
'contentValues()' which is part of the CMF API.

I'm sure that's an easy fix.

--
Sidnei da Silva
Enfold Systems, LLC.
http://enfoldsystems.com
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

Sidnei da Silva wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 03:25:11PM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote:
> | - The product product has the *insane* policy that if any files aren't
> | published, the entire product is inaccessible.
> |
> | Does anyone know how to fix this? Is there a knob for this somewhere in
> | CMF?
>
> I don't think that's a CMF 'feature', unless the product is using
> 'contentValues()' which is part of the CMF API.
>
> I'm sure that's an easy fix.

Can you give us a hint of how to fix it? Is it a knob somewhere?
A DTML script? ;)

Jim

--
Jim Fulton mailto:jim@zope.com Python Powered!
CTO (540) 361-1714 http://www.python.org
Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 03:50:32PM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote:
| Sidnei da Silva wrote:
| >On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 03:25:11PM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote:
| >| - The product product has the *insane* policy that if any files aren't
| >| published, the entire product is inaccessible.
| >|
| >| Does anyone know how to fix this? Is there a knob for this somewhere in
| >| CMF?
| >
| >I don't think that's a CMF 'feature', unless the product is using
| >'contentValues()' which is part of the CMF API.
| >
| >I'm sure that's an easy fix.
|
| Can you give us a hint of how to fix it? Is it a knob somewhere?
| A DTML script? ;)

The traceback is usually a valuable source of information.

--
Sidnei da Silva
Enfold Systems, LLC.
http://enfoldsystems.com
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

Sidnei da Silva wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 03:50:32PM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote:
> | Sidnei da Silva wrote:
> | >On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 03:25:11PM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote:
> | >| - The product product has the *insane* policy that if any files aren't
> | >| published, the entire product is inaccessible.
> | >|
> | >| Does anyone know how to fix this? Is there a knob for this somewhere in
> | >| CMF?
> | >
> | >I don't think that's a CMF 'feature', unless the product is using
> | >'contentValues()' which is part of the CMF API.

BTW, this doesn't mean anything to me.

> | >I'm sure that's an easy fix.
> |
> | Can you give us a hint of how to fix it? Is it a knob somewhere?
> | A DTML script? ;)
>
> The traceback is usually a valuable source of information.

We don't get tracebacks. We get unauthorized responses.

Do you, as the author of zope.org, have any idea where this behavior came
from? Is this product behavior something you implemented, or did it come
from some product product that you reused? Or is this some kind of
workflow thing?

This policy causes us a world of pain, so if it's easy to fix, I'd
really like to know how.

Jim

--
Jim Fulton mailto:jim@zope.com Python Powered!
CTO (540) 361-1714 http://www.python.org
Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
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On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 04:17:02PM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote:
| >| >I don't think that's a CMF 'feature', unless the product is using
| >| >'contentValues()' which is part of the CMF API.
|
| BTW, this doesn't mean anything to me.

I guess it doesn't.

| >| >I'm sure that's an easy fix.
| >|
| >| Can you give us a hint of how to fix it? Is it a knob somewhere?
| >| A DTML script? ;)
| >
| >The traceback is usually a valuable source of information.
|
| We don't get tracebacks. We get unauthorized responses.
|
| Do you, as the author of zope.org, have any idea where this behavior came
| from? Is this product behavior something you implemented, or did it come
| from some product product that you reused? Or is this some kind of
| workflow thing?
|
| This policy causes us a world of pain, so if it's easy to fix, I'd
| really like to know how.

Yes, it's caused by the initial workflow state for 'Software Release
File' or whatever it is called being set to 'private'. That's what was
agreed on during the initial development. It's supposed to be trivial
to change it for someone with minimal DCWorkflow skills.

I'm surprised that if it causes so much pain that nobody has fixed it
yet.

--
Sidnei da Silva
Enfold Systems, LLC.
http://enfoldsystems.com
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

Sidnei da Silva wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 04:17:02PM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote:
> | >| >I don't think that's a CMF 'feature', unless the product is using
> | >| >'contentValues()' which is part of the CMF API.
> |
> | BTW, this doesn't mean anything to me.
>
> I guess it doesn't.

It did to me. I tried to solve this properly by actually going and
editing the disk based software. The results are in
Products/CMFPackage/SoftwarePackage.py.chrisw.2005-10-20 on app1. It was
only after several confusing refreshes on zope.org that I remembered
Andrew saying he'd added another app server to Zope.org. *sigh* It'd be
REAL nice if even the hardware setup of zope.org was documented
SOMEWHERE so that if any of us do get pissed off enough to actually try
and fix anything, we have a vague clue of where we need to go to update
stuff :-(

> | This policy causes us a world of pain, so if it's easy to fix, I'd
> | really like to know how.
>
> Yes, it's caused by the initial workflow state for 'Software Release
> File' or whatever it is called being set to 'private'. That's what was
> agreed on during the initial development. It's supposed to be trivial
> to change it for someone with minimal DCWorkflow skills.
>
> I'm surprised that if it causes so much pain that nobody has fixed it
> yet.

Yes, well, Sidnei, as someone who should really have known how that
software was setup, you could have taken the half hour needed to fix
this damn problem.

Anyway, upshot is that, after reading the disk-based software, laughing,
and then crying, I've employed two large tal:on-error hammers to make
this rediculous problem go away.

custom/swpackage_view
custom/swpackage_releases

..both have tal:on-error="nothing" in strategic places which should just
hide releases which have problems.

Admittedly, this hides a load of potential other problems, but no-one
really cares, right? ;-)

Anyway, I'm going to go and beat some walls down with my head. Hope the
changes I've made help even a little...

cheers,

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web

Chris Withers wrote:
> Sidnei da Silva wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 04:17:02PM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote:
>> | >| >I don't think that's a CMF 'feature', unless the product is using
>> | >| >'contentValues()' which is part of the CMF API.
>> | | BTW, this doesn't mean anything to me.
>>
>> I guess it doesn't.
>
>
> It did to me. I tried to solve this properly by actually going and
> editing the disk based software. The results are in
> Products/CMFPackage/SoftwarePackage.py.chrisw.2005-10-20 on app1. It was
> only after several confusing refreshes on zope.org that I remembered
> Andrew saying he'd added another app server to Zope.org. *sigh* It'd be
> REAL nice if even the hardware setup of zope.org was documented
> SOMEWHERE so that if any of us do get pissed off enough to actually try
> and fix anything, we have a vague clue of where we need to go to update
> stuff :-(

I made an attempt to document the hardware setup. I announced this
a long time ago. If you have the right privileges, you can:

svn co svn+ssh://svn.zope.org/repos/zope.org/system-documentation/trunk

I don't think it's up to date, but it does reflect at least a partial
reality. I wish this would be kept up to date. :/

...

> Admittedly, this hides a load of potential other problems, but no-one
> really cares, right? ;-)

Nope. We are just limping along until the ZF can create a new new (or
is that new new new) zope.org. :/

> Anyway, I'm going to go and beat some walls down with my head. Hope the
> changes I've made help even a little...

Much thanks Chris!

Jim

--
Jim Fulton mailto:jim@zope.com Python Powered!
CTO (540) 361-1714 http://www.python.org
Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org
_______________________________________________
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Jim Fulton wrote:
>
> I made an attempt to document the hardware setup. I announced this
> a long time ago. If you have the right privileges, you can:
>
> svn co svn+ssh://svn.zope.org/repos/zope.org/system-documentation/trunk
>
> I don't think it's up to date, but it does reflect at least a partial
> reality. I wish this would be kept up to date. :/

Yay! I have system docs now. Apologies to Andrew for not knowing these
existed *blush*


>> Anyway, I'm going to go and beat some walls down with my head. Hope
>> the changes I've made help even a little...
>
> Much thanks Chris!

Michael, have you noticed this making any difference?

cheers,

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk

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Chris Withers wrote:

> Jim Fulton wrote:
>
>>
>> I made an attempt to document the hardware setup. I announced this
>> a long time ago. If you have the right privileges, you can:
>>
>> svn co svn+ssh://svn.zope.org/repos/zope.org/system-documentation/trunk
>>
>> I don't think it's up to date, but it does reflect at least a partial
>> reality. I wish this would be kept up to date. :/
>
>
> Yay! I have system docs now. Apologies to Andrew for not knowing these
> existed *blush*
>
>
> >> Anyway, I'm going to go and beat some walls down with my head. Hope
> >> the changes I've made help even a little...
> >
> > Much thanks Chris!
>
> Michael, have you noticed this making any difference?
>

Works atm, the next zope release will show ...

Michael

--
http://zope.org/Members/d2m
http://planetzope.org

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