Mailing List Archive

Transition to new server
The new server is up and has all the software installed on it,
so now we need to come up with a plan for moving the systems to
the new setup.

It will /almost/ be possible to do it cleanly with DNS without
anyone noticing--just bring apache up on the new server, whose
scripts will read and write the database on the old server, and
switch "www" to point to it. During the time when user's DNS
caches are still live, some will point to the old server, but
it will be sharing the same database, so both systems can run
concurrently with no problem.

The glitch: images. Those are written to the filesystem rather
than to the database, so images uploaded on one server will
appear in the database of both, but only on one filesystem.

One way to fix this is to NFS-mount the image filesystem on
both machines, but NFS is not terribly reliable and will increase
network traffic.

Another way to do it is a more traditional switchover that will
turn off the scripts on the old server when we enable to new one,
and put up a static page that points people to the new server
under a name other than "www" while their caches are still live.

Another thing to consider is moving "test" over first, pointing
to the old database, and try the transition method on that before
we try it on "www".

Jason, regardless of which way we go, you can start by reducing
the lifetime of "test" and "www" in DNS, and make entries for
"pliny" and "larousse". We also need to change the canonical
name of ww to pliny--I can do that, but I'm not sure what else
that might effect, so I haven't done it yet.

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC
Re: Transition to new server [ In reply to ]
Lee Daniel Crocker wrote:
> The glitch: images. Those are written to the filesystem rather
> than to the database, so images uploaded on one server will
> appear in the database of both, but only on one filesystem.

Isn't this true: for all images already uploaded, there is no problem.
Only when a new image is uploaded, it will go to one or the other
filesystem?

I think this could be tolerable if we disable image uploading on the
"old" server (now the "database server"), just to make sure nothing
gets uploaded there.

If a few images look broken for 24 hours while DNS propagates, it's no
biggie.

> Another way to do it is a more traditional switchover that will
> turn off the scripts on the old server when we enable to new one,
> and put up a static page that points people to the new server
> under a name other than "www" while their caches are still live.

That's good, too.

--Jimbo
Re: Transition to new server [ In reply to ]
I think that the database server should have it's IP changed to
130.94.122.199 (That's what the new server is currently using). We
can then change the new server to use the current wiki IP.

This way, the upgrade is complete and immediate, and we don't have DNS
issues, which we know can be more pain than they're worth.

Of course, there is the one scary question: "What if they don't come
up with the right IP's and we can't do anything about it?". That
would be bad, but I don't think it would be a problem if we just
changed the IP's in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0, and did
a reboot when we were ready.

Either way, I'll try to set the TTL to a low value.

Jason

Of, course, we can do whatever. I just think that this will be the
least painful for everyone involved.

Lee Daniel Crocker wrote:

>
> The new server is up and has all the software installed on it,
> so now we need to come up with a plan for moving the systems to
> the new setup.
>
> It will /almost/ be possible to do it cleanly with DNS without
> anyone noticing--just bring apache up on the new server, whose
> scripts will read and write the database on the old server, and
> switch "www" to point to it. During the time when user's DNS
> caches are still live, some will point to the old server, but
> it will be sharing the same database, so both systems can run
> concurrently with no problem.
>
> The glitch: images. Those are written to the filesystem rather
> than to the database, so images uploaded on one server will
> appear in the database of both, but only on one filesystem.
>
> One way to fix this is to NFS-mount the image filesystem on
> both machines, but NFS is not terribly reliable and will increase
> network traffic.
>
> Another way to do it is a more traditional switchover that will
> turn off the scripts on the old server when we enable to new one,
> and put up a static page that points people to the new server
> under a name other than "www" while their caches are still live.
>
> Another thing to consider is moving "test" over first, pointing
> to the old database, and try the transition method on that before
> we try it on "www".
>
> Jason, regardless of which way we go, you can start by reducing
> the lifetime of "test" and "www" in DNS, and make entries for
> "pliny" and "larousse". We also need to change the canonical
> name of ww to pliny--I can do that, but I'm not sure what else
> that might effect, so I haven't done it yet.
>
> --
> Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
> "All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
> are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
> for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@wikipedia.org
> http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

--
"Jason C. Richey" <jasonr@bomis.com>
Re: Transition to new server [ In reply to ]
I am only in control of wikipedia.com, I don't know who can change the
TTL on wikipedi.org subdomains.

Jason

Lee Daniel Crocker wrote:

>
> Jason, regardless of which way we go, you can start by reducing
> the lifetime of "test" and "www" in DNS, and make entries for
> "pliny" and "larousse". We also need to change the canonical
> name of ww to pliny--I can do that, but I'm not sure what else
> that might effect, so I haven't done it yet.
>
> --
> Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
> "All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
> are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
> for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@wikipedia.org
> http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

--
"Jason C. Richey" <jasonr@bomis.com>
Re: Transition to new server [ In reply to ]
Jason's suggestions (of an ip number swap) sounds totally
straightforward and appropriate to me. It means we don't have
to fiddle with the vagaries of DNS, it's instant, and it's easily
reversible.

--Jimbo
Re: Transition to new server [ In reply to ]
Oops... I was wrong here... I guess I've only messed around with the
.com names in the past. Don't mind me... Something is wrong with my
brain today.

Jason

Jason Richey wrote:

> I am only in control of wikipedia.com, I don't know who can change the
> TTL on wikipedi.org subdomains.
>
> Jason
>
> Lee Daniel Crocker wrote:
>
> >
> > Jason, regardless of which way we go, you can start by reducing
> > the lifetime of "test" and "www" in DNS, and make entries for
> > "pliny" and "larousse". We also need to change the canonical
> > name of ww to pliny--I can do that, but I'm not sure what else
> > that might effect, so I haven't done it yet.
> >
> > --
> > Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
> > "All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
> > are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
> > for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l@wikipedia.org
> > http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> --
> "Jason C. Richey" <jasonr@bomis.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@wikipedia.org
> http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

--
"Jason C. Richey" <jasonr@bomis.com>
Re: Transition to new server [ In reply to ]
> (Jimmy Wales <jwales@bomis.com>):
> Lee Daniel Crocker wrote:
> > The glitch: images. Those are written to the filesystem rather
> > than to the database, so images uploaded on one server will
> > appear in the database of both, but only on one filesystem.
>
> Isn't this true: for all images already uploaded, there is no problem.
> Only when a new image is uploaded, it will go to one or the other
> filesystem?
> I think this could be tolerable if we disable image uploading on the
> "old" server (now the "database server"), just to make sure nothing
> gets uploaded there.

Yes, that's the case; disabling uploads in the old server would
still allow uploads on the new one, and pages would look fine on
the new server, and there would be a few broken images on the
old server during transition. It would also be necessary to disable
rendering new equations on the old server as well, and that might
be more annoying that disabling uploads.

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC
Re: Transition to new server [ In reply to ]
> (Jimmy Wales <jwales@bomis.com>):
> Jason's suggestions (of an ip number swap) sounds totally
> straightforward and appropriate to me. It means we don't have
> to fiddle with the vagaries of DNS, it's instant, and it's easily
> reversible.

OK, I'll just need to take a few minutes to wrap my brain around
how that will work with the software (...drawing diagrams...)

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC
Re: Transition to new server [ In reply to ]
How's that? I'm sorry, I don't understand. It's all in my register.com
account, right?

Jason Richey wrote:

> I am only in control of wikipedia.com, I don't know who can change the
> TTL on wikipedi.org subdomains.
>
> Jason
>
> Lee Daniel Crocker wrote:
>
> >
> > Jason, regardless of which way we go, you can start by reducing
> > the lifetime of "test" and "www" in DNS, and make entries for
> > "pliny" and "larousse". We also need to change the canonical
> > name of ww to pliny--I can do that, but I'm not sure what else
> > that might effect, so I haven't done it yet.
> >
> > --
> > Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
> > "All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
> > are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
> > for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l@wikipedia.org
> > http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> --
> "Jason C. Richey" <jasonr@bomis.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@wikipedia.org
> http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Transition to new server [ In reply to ]
Yeah, I noticed that right after I sent this mail... For some reason,
I thought that wikipedia.org was a different situation (in terms of
DNS) than wikipedia.com. I don't know what made me think that.

Jason

Jimmy Wales wrote:

> How's that? I'm sorry, I don't understand. It's all in my register.com
> account, right?
>
> Jason Richey wrote:
>
> > I am only in control of wikipedia.com, I don't know who can change the
> > TTL on wikipedi.org subdomains.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > Lee Daniel Crocker wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Jason, regardless of which way we go, you can start by reducing
> > > the lifetime of "test" and "www" in DNS, and make entries for
> > > "pliny" and "larousse". We also need to change the canonical
> > > name of ww to pliny--I can do that, but I'm not sure what else
> > > that might effect, so I haven't done it yet.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
> > > "All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
> > > are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
> > > for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > Wikitech-l@wikipedia.org
> > > http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> > --
> > "Jason C. Richey" <jasonr@bomis.com>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l@wikipedia.org
> > http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@wikipedia.org
> http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

--
"Jason C. Richey" <jasonr@bomis.com>
Re: Transition to new server (DNS) [ In reply to ]
I belive that it would be a worthwhile investment for wikipedia to invest in
an easyDNS account. i believe its important for the project to have full
control over their dns at all times.... and its not expensive at all. i use
it and i absolutely love it.. and if a couple of people want to, im willing
to chip in for it.

Lightning


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Richey" <jasonr@bomis.com>
To: <wikitech-l@wikipedia.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Transition to new server


> Yeah, I noticed that right after I sent this mail... For some reason,
> I thought that wikipedia.org was a different situation (in terms of
> DNS) than wikipedia.com. I don't know what made me think that.
>
> Jason
>
> Jimmy Wales wrote:
>
> > How's that? I'm sorry, I don't understand. It's all in my register.com
> > account, right?
> >
> > Jason Richey wrote:
> >
> > > I am only in control of wikipedia.com, I don't know who can change the
> > > TTL on wikipedi.org subdomains.
> > >
> > > Jason
> > >
> > > Lee Daniel Crocker wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Jason, regardless of which way we go, you can start by reducing
> > > > the lifetime of "test" and "www" in DNS, and make entries for
> > > > "pliny" and "larousse". We also need to change the canonical
> > > > name of ww to pliny--I can do that, but I'm not sure what else
> > > > that might effect, so I haven't done it yet.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
> > > > "All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and
past,
> > > > are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or
modified
> > > > for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or
notification."--LDC
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > Wikitech-l@wikipedia.org
> > > > http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > >
> > > --
> > > "Jason C. Richey" <jasonr@bomis.com>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > Wikitech-l@wikipedia.org
> > > http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l@wikipedia.org
> > http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> --
> "Jason C. Richey" <jasonr@bomis.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@wikipedia.org
> http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
Re: Transition to new server (DNS) [ In reply to ]
On Thu, May 08, 2003 at 09:29:22PM -0400, Lightning wrote:
> I belive that it would be a worthwhile investment for wikipedia to invest in
> an easyDNS account. i believe its important for the project to have full
> control over their dns at all times.... and its not expensive at all. i use
> it and i absolutely love it.. and if a couple of people want to, im willing
> to chip in for it.
>
> Lightning

I use easyDNS right now, and I have to agree - it is awesome. The web
interface is good, customer service is quick, and my transfer from
register.com (who messed up my WHOIS record _twice_ leaving me stranded
for a week [their automated scripts made an error, boo!]) was pretty
painless.

--
Nick Reinking -- eschewing obfuscation since 1981 -- Minneapolis, MN
Re: Transition to new server (DNS) [ In reply to ]
Lightning wrote:
> I belive that it would be a worthwhile investment for wikipedia to
> invest in an easyDNS account. i believe its important for the
> project to have full control over their dns at all times.... and its
> not expensive at all. i use it and i absolutely love it.. and if a
> couple of people want to, im willing to chip in for it.

Well, we do run our own DNS servers, too. It's really just a matter
of convenience and tradition that we've never moved the DNS from
register.com to our own DNS servers. We could do that, it's just a
matter of time.

--Jimbo