Mailing List Archive: Developper limits

Developper limits

Apr 30, 2003, 4:07 AM

Post #1 of 14 (350 views)

Hum, I am a bit embarrassed here. But well...

We have a bottle neck problem I fear.

Utilisateur:Alvaro asked to be a sysop on the french
wiki quite a while ago, and nobody spoke against
(indeed, several spoke for him). Then, since this is
asked on our pump, he was first forgot for a while.
Had to kindly ask again.
So I put a message asking for him to be made sysop in
the database on your page Brion, on the english
wikipedia, as well as the metapedia if I remember
well.

He still is not sysop. It is clear it is a pain for
you developpers to do this type of chore; Ed
mentionned it several times. So, we wait, and ask
again, and again.

But, then, isnot there a way for us to make people on
the international wikipedia ourselves ?

Could there be something like a query, which could
allow french sysop to make french user (just an
example of course) a sysop automatically ? Maybe a
list of user could be displayed, and one sysop could
click on the name of one user to make him sysop ? Of
course, it would be absolutely required then than a
log is clearly visible to everyone, to avoid abuse.

Is something like this possible or not ?

Meanwhile, could someone please make Alvaro sysop ?

Also, as Aoineko mentionned previously, the mispelling
page is quite broken, and has never been working well
since we are phase III (31th of october). It was
already reported.

I know you are overbooked. Is there something we can
do (ok, not me, but there are some developpers among
us) to make that work ? Do the other international
wikipedias using accentuated letters do have the
problem as well ?

Anthere

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Re: Developper limits [ In reply to ]

jasonr at bomis

Apr 30, 2003, 4:33 AM

Post #2 of 14 (350 views)

Permalink

Done... This is the first I recal hearing of this. Was it posted to
this list originally?

jason

Anthere wrote:

>
> Hum, I am a bit embarrassed here. But well...
>
> We have a bottle neck problem I fear.
>
> Utilisateur:Alvaro asked to be a sysop on the french
> wiki quite a while ago, and nobody spoke against
> (indeed, several spoke for him). Then, since this is
> asked on our pump, he was first forgot for a while.
> Had to kindly ask again.
> So I put a message asking for him to be made sysop in
> the database on your page Brion, on the english
> wikipedia, as well as the metapedia if I remember
> well.
>
> He still is not sysop. It is clear it is a pain for
> you developpers to do this type of chore; Ed
> mentionned it several times. So, we wait, and ask
> again, and again.
>
> But, then, isnot there a way for us to make people on
> the international wikipedia ourselves ?
>
> Could there be something like a query, which could
> allow french sysop to make french user (just an
> example of course) a sysop automatically ? Maybe a
> list of user could be displayed, and one sysop could
> click on the name of one user to make him sysop ? Of
> course, it would be absolutely required then than a
> log is clearly visible to everyone, to avoid abuse.
>
> Is something like this possible or not ?
>
> Meanwhile, could someone please make Alvaro sysop ?
>
> Also, as Aoineko mentionned previously, the mispelling
> page is quite broken, and has never been working well
> since we are phase III (31th of october). It was
> already reported.
>
> I know you are overbooked. Is there something we can
> do (ok, not me, but there are some developpers among
> us) to make that work ? Do the other international
> wikipedias using accentuated letters do have the
> problem as well ?
>
> Anthere
>
> __________________________________
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> _______________________________________________
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> Wikitech-l@wikipedia.org
> http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

--
"Jason C. Richey" <jasonr@bomis.com>

Re: Developper limits [ In reply to ]

anthere6 at yahoo

Apr 30, 2003, 4:39 AM

Post #3 of 14 (349 views)

Permalink

> Done, Alvaro is now a sysop.

thanks for him

> > Could there be something like a query, which could
> > allow french sysop to make french user (just an
> > example of course) a sysop automatically ?
>
> I believe the last thing that was suggested was to
> require some minimum
> time to pass before it took effect, and to allow
> other people to cancel
> the request during that time. See:
>
http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_details_special_page

when are we started this debate again ?

> > Also, as Aoineko mentionned previously, the
> mispelling
> > page is quite broken...
>
> If I understand it correctly, those using latin1
> will likely have the
> same problem, while those using unicode should _not_
> have that problem.
> On the other hand, they might not work at all. I'm
> not very familiar
> with the workings of the mispeelings page... Making
> it both work right
> _and_ not bog down the server may be tricky.

Then maybe I should say there is no problem, before
any one suggest we should upgrade to
unicode...oups...I said nothing...everything is
working perfectly :-)))

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Re: Developper limits [ In reply to ]

anthere6 at yahoo

Apr 30, 2003, 4:47 AM

Post #4 of 14 (347 views)

Permalink

--- Jason Richey <jasonr@bomis.com> wrote:
> Done... This is the first I recal hearing of this.
> Was it posted to
> this list originally?
>
> jason
>
no, we usually ask Brion directly (which I did on meta
and english). Or post it at the french list, which
Brion read. But, when I saw he was obviously not
around, I thought useless to post it on our list,
where no other developper would see it. I don't any
other developper did upgrade anyone sysop for us. So,
we entirely rely on Brion. I don't think it is the
best option to entirely rely only on one person.

the option indicated on meta would be a good one

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Re: Developper limits [ In reply to ]

brion at pobox

Apr 30, 2003, 4:52 AM

Post #5 of 14 (348 views)

Permalink

On Wed, 2003-04-30 at 04:07, Anthere wrote:
> Utilisateur:Alvaro asked to be a sysop on the french
> wiki quite a while ago...
> So I put a message asking for him to be made sysop in
> the database on your page Brion, on the english
> wikipedia, as well as the metapedia if I remember
> well.

So you did. I was out of town last week and got behind on various
messages, sorry!!

Done, Alvaro is now a sysop.

> Could there be something like a query, which could
> allow french sysop to make french user (just an
> example of course) a sysop automatically ?

I believe the last thing that was suggested was to require some minimum
time to pass before it took effect, and to allow other people to cancel
the request during that time. See:
http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_details_special_page

> Also, as Aoineko mentionned previously, the mispelling
> page is quite broken...

If I understand it correctly, those using latin1 will likely have the
same problem, while those using unicode should _not_ have that problem.
On the other hand, they might not work at all. I'm not very familiar
with the workings of the mispeelings page... Making it both work right
_and_ not bog down the server may be tricky.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

Re: Developper limits [ In reply to ]

lee at piclab

Apr 30, 2003, 10:22 AM

Post #6 of 14 (345 views)

Permalink

> (Anthere <anthere6@yahoo.com>):
>
> no, we usually ask Brion directly (which I did on meta
> and english). Or post it at the french list, which
> Brion read. But, when I saw he was obviously not
> around, I thought useless to post it on our list,
> where no other developper would see it. I don't any
> other developper did upgrade anyone sysop for us. So,
> we entirely rely on Brion. I don't think it is the
> best option to entirely rely only on one person.

This mailing list is the place to put sysop requests.
That's what the Wikipedia:Administrators page says to do,
and if that page isn't yet translated onto the French wiki,
it should be. ALL of the developers read this list, and
any of us can respond to a simple sysop request.

In the long run, we'll have a process that doesn't require
developer intervention, but we've got more pressing matters
to deal with at the moment.

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC

Re: Developper limits [ In reply to ]

giskart at wikipedia

Apr 30, 2003, 12:11 PM

Post #7 of 14 (347 views)

Permalink

Anthere <anthere6@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:20030430110711.39550.qmail@web41708.mail.yahoo.com:
>
> But, then, isnot there a way for us to make people on
> the international wikipedia ourselves ?
>
> Could there be something like a query, which could
> allow french sysop to make french user (just an
> example of course) a sysop automatically ? Maybe a
> list of user could be displayed, and one sysop could
> click on the name of one user to make him sysop ? Of

I must say that until now the responds time about serious problems or
requests to make a user a sysop is not to bad if you take in account how
much work Brion has.

So far I know if a user has "developer" status you can run a query to make
user sysop or remove sysop status.

But I suppose you can do a lot of damage to a wikipedia if you run a bad
query when you have developer status. Something to be carefull whit.

--
Contact: giskart AT wikipedia.be
Ook een artikeltje schrijven? WikipediaNL, de vrije GNU/FDL encyclopedie
http://www.wikipedia.be

Re: Re: Developper limits [ In reply to ]

taw at users

Apr 30, 2003, 12:24 PM

Post #8 of 14 (347 views)

Permalink

On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 07:11:27PM +0000, Giskart wrote:
> I must say that until now the responds time about serious problems or
> requests to make a user a sysop is not to bad if you take in account how
> much work Brion has.
>
> So far I know if a user has "developer" status you can run a query to make
> user sysop or remove sysop status.
>
> But I suppose you can do a lot of damage to a wikipedia if you run a bad
> query when you have developer status. Something to be carefull whit.

Here's standard one:
update user set user_rights = 'sysop' where user_name = 'NameOfNewAdmin';

-- Taw, developer

Re: Developper limits [ In reply to ]

anthere6 at yahoo

Apr 30, 2003, 1:04 PM

Post #9 of 14 (346 views)

Permalink

--- Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> wrote:
> This mailing list is the place to put sysop
> requests.
> That's what the Wikipedia:Administrators page says
> to do,
> and if that page isn't yet translated onto the
> French wiki,
> it should be. ALL of the developers read this list,
> and
> any of us can respond to a simple sysop request.
>
> In the long run, we'll have a process that doesn't
> require
> developer intervention, but we've got more pressing
> matters
> to deal with at the moment.

Okay. Will add it to our admin page.

No, all of our meta pages are not entirely translated
from the english wiki.
It is not especially fun to do, not many people do
care of these matters, so many things are not done
yet.
Besides, some of our meta decisions are different from
the english wiki, so some of our pages are different.

But, I agree on this matter, this list is the right
place to ask, so from now on, I will ask here.

I just feel a bit "cheated". As already said, Brion
has been the only one to ever help us on these
matters, you specifically mentionned many months ago
you did not intend to take care of international
matters, and Ed sounds like he is bored about it.
Hence, the habit of asking Brion directly. I am sorry
that was a wrong move. Apologies. Anthere

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Re: Re: Developper limits [ In reply to ]

anthere6 at yahoo

Apr 30, 2003, 1:09 PM

Post #10 of 14 (348 views)

Permalink

--- Giskart <giskart@wikipedia.be> wrote:
> Anthere <anthere6@yahoo.com> wrote in
>
news:20030430110711.39550.qmail@web41708.mail.yahoo.com:
> >
> > But, then, isnot there a way for us to make people
> on
> > the international wikipedia ourselves ?
> >
> > Could there be something like a query, which could
> > allow french sysop to make french user (just an
> > example of course) a sysop automatically ? Maybe a
> > list of user could be displayed, and one sysop
> could
> > click on the name of one user to make him sysop ?
> Of
>
> I must say that until now the responds time about
> serious problems or
> requests to make a user a sysop is not to bad if you
> take in account how
> much work Brion has.

Absolutely ! But given the amount of important things
the developpers have to do right now, to solve
performance issue, I think we are somehow making poor
use of their time having this kind of request. I am
just trying to have a more efficient process here.

er....delegation of authority ? handing over chores to
others ? unballasting a ship ? :-)

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Re: Re: Developper limits [ In reply to ]

giskart at wikipedia

Apr 30, 2003, 1:19 PM

Post #11 of 14 (346 views)

Permalink

Tomasz Wegrzanowski
<taw@users.sourceforge.net> wrote in
news:20030430192437.GA6461@tavaiah:
> Here's standard one:
> update user set user_rights = 'sysop' where user_name =
> 'NameOfNewAdmin';
>
> -- Taw, developer

Yes, i know. I have put it on the list of Database queries of my wikipedia
a while ago. Not that you can do a lot whit it.

--
Contact: giskart AT wikipedia.be
Ook een artikeltje schrijven? WikipediaNL, de vrije GNU/FDL encyclopedie
http://www.wikipedia.be

Re: Developper limits [ In reply to ]

anthere6 at yahoo

Apr 30, 2003, 3:07 PM

Post #12 of 14 (349 views)

Permalink

--- Anthere <anthere6@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --- Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> wrote:
> > This mailing list is the place to put sysop
> > requests.
> > That's what the Wikipedia:Administrators page says
> > to do,

Btw, the en:Wikipedia:Administrators page absolutely
do not indicate this mailing list as being the right
place to ask for sysop rights. It mentions it *only*
for developper status.

The page recommand to ask sysop status on the
en.mailing list. Then I guess someone agrees for the
new sysop, then by some magic, the user is named
sysop.

Clearly, international wikipedias cannot follow that
pattern. No international user will come either to the
english list, nor to the tech list for sysophood, but
likely to the specific language list, or the admin
page, or pump. Hence, the procedure given for
english-speaking people cannot be identically followed
on international wikipedia. It requires one more step,
as not only other users have to agree, but someone has
to ask and check until it is done.

Regards

Anthere

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Re: Developper limits [ In reply to ]

lee at piclab

Apr 30, 2003, 3:18 PM

Post #13 of 14 (348 views)

Permalink

> (Anthere <anthere6@yahoo.com>):
>
> Btw, the en:Wikipedia:Administrators page absolutely
> do not indicate this mailing list as being the right
> place to ask for sysop rights. It mentions it *only*
> for developper status.
>
> The page recommand to ask sysop status on the
> en.mailing list. Then I guess someone agrees for the
> new sysop, then by some magic, the user is named
> sysop.

Sorry, I assumed this was posted to wikipedia-l, not
wikitech-l, since it's not a technical issue. Yes,
wikipedia-l is the right place to ask.

And the magic is "update user set user_rights='sysop'
where user_name='newsysopname';", which can be done
from a MySQL prompt on the server, or with the SQL
query page by any developer.

> Clearly, international wikipedias cannot follow that
> pattern. No international user will come either to the
> english list, nor to the tech list for sysophood, but
> likely to the specific language list, or the admin
> page, or pump. Hence, the procedure given for
> english-speaking people cannot be identically followed
> on international wikipedia. It requires one more step,
> as not only other users have to agree, but someone has
> to ask and check until it is done.

Until a few more French and German an other foreign
language-speaking developers step up to help manage
things, you won't get quick response on lists the
current developers don't read.

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC

Re: Developper limits [ In reply to ]

anthere6 at yahoo

Apr 30, 2003, 3:46 PM

Post #14 of 14 (346 views)

Permalink

--- Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> wrote:
> > (Anthere <anthere6@yahoo.com>):
> >
> > Btw, the en:Wikipedia:Administrators page
> absolutely
> > do not indicate this mailing list as being the
> right
> > place to ask for sysop rights. It mentions it
> *only*
> > for developper status.
> >
> > The page recommand to ask sysop status on the
> > en.mailing list. Then I guess someone agrees for
> the
> > new sysop, then by some magic, the user is named
> > sysop.
>
> Sorry, I assumed this was posted to wikipedia-l, not
> wikitech-l, since it's not a technical issue. Yes,
> wikipedia-l is the right place to ask.

ok again. Changing the page.

> And the magic is "update user set
> user_rights='sysop'
> where user_name='newsysopname';", which can be done
> from a MySQL prompt on the server, or with the SQL
> query page by any developer.

I know so little of database handling that I would
never dare doing it myself :-)))

> Until a few more French and German an other foreign
> language-speaking developers step up to help manage
> things, you won't get quick response on lists the
> current developers don't read.

So true. Sigh. But I can't resist a user making droopy
eyes because he asked to be sysop nearly a month ago
and still is not :-(((

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