Mailing List Archive

wikipedia dead again
But I can ssh there.

First line in top:

PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT %CPU %MEM TIME COMMAND
25451 mysql 17 0 989M 948M 670M R 99.9 47.1 110:55 mysqld
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
Tomasz Wegrzanowski wrote:

> PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT %CPU %MEM TIME COMMAND
> 25451 mysql 17 0 989M 948M 670M R 99.9 47.1 110:55 mysqld

Seems ok, less than 50% memory in use ;)

Smurf
--
--- Anthill Inside! ---
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
--- Tomasz Wegrzanowski <taw@users.sourceforge.net>
wrote:
> But I can ssh there.
>
> First line in top:
>
> PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT %CPU
> %MEM TIME COMMAND
> 25451 mysql 17 0 989M 948M 670M R 99.9
> 47.1 110:55 mysqld
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@wikipedia.org
> http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


I don't know what ssh means...

Slow Server Help ?
Silence ! Sleeping Happily ?
System Severily Hurt ?

Anyway, if the server is down, nothing special to say.
If the server is just slow, I would just say that no
connexions have been possible for the past two hours.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 06:17:13AM -0800, Anthere wrote:
>
> --- Tomasz Wegrzanowski <taw@users.sourceforge.net>
> wrote:
> > But I can ssh there.
> >
> > First line in top:
> >
> > PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT %CPU
> > %MEM TIME COMMAND
> > 25451 mysql 17 0 989M 948M 670M R 99.9
> > 47.1 110:55 mysqld
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l@wikipedia.org
> > http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
> I don't know what ssh means...
>
> Slow Server Help ?
> Silence ! Sleeping Happily ?
> System Severily Hurt ?
>
> Anyway, if the server is down, nothing special to say.
> If the server is just slow, I would just say that no
> connexions have been possible for the past two hours.

Somebody is going to have to give mysqld a kill (maybe a kill -9).
Anybody got root on the box?

--
Nick Reinking -- eschewing obfuscation since 1981 -- Minneapolis, MN
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 08:46:32AM -0600, Nick Reinking wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 06:17:13AM -0800, Anthere wrote:
> > I don't know what ssh means...
> >
> > Slow Server Help ?
> > Silence ! Sleeping Happily ?
> > System Severily Hurt ?

Secure SHell

> > Anyway, if the server is down, nothing special to say.
> > If the server is just slow, I would just say that no
> > connexions have been possible for the past two hours.

Server is not down, only HTTP doesn't respond.

> Somebody is going to have to give mysqld a kill (maybe a kill -9).
> Anybody got root on the box?

$ uname -a
Linux www.wikipedia.org 2.4.7-10smp #1 SMP Thu Sep 6 16:16:16 EDT 2001 i686 unknown
$

Should I try this ptrace() trick now ;-) ?
Just kidding ...
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
> (Anthere <anthere6@yahoo.com>):
>
> I don't know what ssh means...

"Secure Shell": the standard way to log onto a machine remotely
these days. At any rate, the server is up, it's just totally
slammed with traffic.

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
> (Tomasz Wegrzanowski <taw@users.sourceforge.net>):

>> Somebody is going to have to give mysqld a kill (maybe a kill -9).
>> Anybody got root on the box?

I just killed and restarted MySQL and Apache. Looks like we're
still getting slammed, and the logs don't show anything like an
out-of-control bot, so it looks like just ordinary heavy traffic.

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
--- Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> wrote:
> > (Anthere <anthere6@yahoo.com>):
> >
> > I don't know what ssh means...
>
> "Secure Shell": the standard way to log onto a
> machine remotely
> these days. At any rate, the server is up, it's
> just totally
> slammed with traffic.


hum

Say Lee, the last connexion to the french wiki was
done at 11:21 am
It was down from 11:21 to about a couple of minutes
ago (that is 20:23)
Between these two times (so ... 9 hours...),
absolutely NO connexions were possible
I just checked ...was the same on the en apparently

so....which traffic ? from where ? from who ? any idea
?



__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
> (Anthere <anthere6@yahoo.com>):
>
> Say Lee, the last connexion to the french wiki was
> done at 11:21 am
> It was down from 11:21 to about a couple of minutes
> ago (that is 20:23)
> Between these two times (so ... 9 hours...),
> absolutely NO connexions were possible
> I just checked ...was the same on the en apparently
>
> so....which traffic ? from where ? from who ? any idea

Well, that's the first time I'd heard that. And there's
only one server: just because there's no traffic on one of
the many wikis doesn't mean the server isn't busy as hell.

The only message I got this morning was "the wiki is down".
That didn't tell me anything, so I logged on and saw that
the CPU load was maxed out, and that there were hundreds
of active connections. Looked like regular traffic to me.

It seems to be responding better now after the kick, but
I'm reluctant to restart the server (which involves breaking
all active connections) unless I get a more specific report
than "the wiki is down".

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Lee Daniel Crocker wrote:
> I just killed and restarted MySQL and Apache. Looks like we're
> still getting slammed, and the logs don't show anything like an
> out-of-control bot, so it looks like just ordinary heavy traffic.

Lee, in the future when mysqld is doing its thang all too well; could you
try connecting (mysql -u root -p) and running a 'SHOW FULL PROCESSLIST'?
This should show the life-sucking query (somewhere among the big huge
list), and it is often possible to kill just that query using mysql's
KILL command.

(Mysql supposedly always reserves one connection for root for emergency
maintenance.)

If you already tried that and it didn't work, please ignore. :)

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 01:53:29PM -0600, Lee Daniel Crocker wrote:
> > (Anthere <anthere6@yahoo.com>):
> >
> > Say Lee, the last connexion to the french wiki was
> > done at 11:21 am
> > It was down from 11:21 to about a couple of minutes
> > ago (that is 20:23)
> > Between these two times (so ... 9 hours...),
> > absolutely NO connexions were possible
> > I just checked ...was the same on the en apparently
> >
> > so....which traffic ? from where ? from who ? any idea
>
> Well, that's the first time I'd heard that. And there's
> only one server: just because there's no traffic on one of
> the many wikis doesn't mean the server isn't busy as hell.
>
> The only message I got this morning was "the wiki is down".
> That didn't tell me anything, so I logged on and saw that
> the CPU load was maxed out, and that there were hundreds
> of active connections. Looked like regular traffic to me.
>
> It seems to be responding better now after the kick, but
> I'm reluctant to restart the server (which involves breaking
> all active connections) unless I get a more specific report
> than "the wiki is down".

Well, hard to expect much more than that from a user who doesn't have a
login to the server itself. By the way, my guess is that some query, or
perhaps some quirk, had caused MySQL to lock up. All of the apache
processes were likely in a blocked state, waiting for MySQL to respond.
Just because there are lots of processes running, doesn't mean they're
actually responding.

--
Nick Reinking -- eschewing obfuscation since 1981 -- Minneapolis, MN
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
> (Brion Vibber <vibber@sal-sun062.usc.edu>):
> On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Lee Daniel Crocker wrote:
> > I just killed and restarted MySQL and Apache. Looks like we're
> > still getting slammed, and the logs don't show anything like an
> > out-of-control bot, so it looks like just ordinary heavy traffic.
>
> Lee, in the future when mysqld is doing its thang all too well; could you
> try connecting (mysql -u root -p) and running a 'SHOW FULL PROCESSLIST'?
> This should show the life-sucking query (somewhere among the big huge
> list), and it is often possible to kill just that query using mysql's
> KILL command.
>
> (Mysql supposedly always reserves one connection for root for emergency
> maintenance.)
>
> If you already tried that and it didn't work, please ignore. :)

Nope, didn't know about that one. Thanks, I'll file that one away
for future use.

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
Nick Reinking wrote:
> Well, hard to expect much more than that from a user who doesn't have a
> login to the server itself.

Well, that's right.

> By the way, my guess is that some query, or
> perhaps some quirk, had caused MySQL to lock up. All of the apache
> processes were likely in a blocked state, waiting for MySQL to respond.
> Just because there are lots of processes running, doesn't mean they're
> actually responding.

One reason I like DB's I can attach an strace at each query. No better
way to get these buggers ;)

Nobody^H^H^H^H^H^HSmurf
--
------------------------- Anthill inside! ---------------------------
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
It looks like it was a miswritten query by one of our new sysops on
fr.wikipedia.org. He has learned respect for the database the hard way. :)

(Slow query log lists it as taking 31141 seconds, which is presumably
where it got cut off by a kill/restart. Ouch!)

I'll have to see if there's a way to have an automatic timeout/kill query
for a certain mysql user; that would reduce the impact of these occasional
accidents. (Sysop sql queries are sandboxed in a 'wikisql' user account
which has limited privledges. In a super-ideal world, they'd probably also
run on their own replicated server where they will never interfere with
the live system. But, that means more computers. :)

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
--- Nick Reinking <nick@twoevils.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 01:53:29PM -0600, Lee Daniel
> Crocker wrote:
> > > (Anthere <anthere6@yahoo.com>):
> > >
> > > Say Lee, the last connexion to the french wiki
> was
> > > done at 11:21 am
> > > It was down from 11:21 to about a couple of
> minutes
> > > ago (that is 20:23)
> > > Between these two times (so ... 9 hours...),
> > > absolutely NO connexions were possible
> > > I just checked ...was the same on the en
> apparently
> > >
> > > so....which traffic ? from where ? from who ?
> any idea
> >
> > Well, that's the first time I'd heard that. And
> there's
> > only one server: just because there's no traffic
> on one of
> > the many wikis doesn't mean the server isn't busy
> as hell.
> >
> > The only message I got this morning was "the wiki
> is down".
> > That didn't tell me anything, so I logged on and
> saw that
> > the CPU load was maxed out, and that there were
> hundreds
> > of active connections. Looked like regular traffic
> to me.

I dunno Lee
The wiki has been horribly slow for the past 2 weeks,
and many editors have already gave up editing because
of this
Today, it was just as if wiki didnot existed at all
during 9 hours, which were full day hours
And not only was there no response from the server at
all, but no response on the mailing list either. That
is a bit disturbing I would say.
In short, if 13/14 days it takes about 1 mn to respond
for each page during day time, and the 14th day wiki
doesnot exist at all, well, it won't be long for
anybody to just give up

Besides, I checked on the english wiki, and I saw
there were no edits in the recent changes log for many
hours, so you can hardly say it is no response from
"one of the numerous wiki". This was a general matter.
So, we wonder.

> > It seems to be responding better now after the
> kick, but
> > I'm reluctant to restart the server (which
> involves breaking
> > all active connections) unless I get a more
> specific report
> > than "the wiki is down".
>
> Well, hard to expect much more than that from a user
> who doesn't have a
> login to the server itself. By the way, my guess is
> that some query, or
> perhaps some quirk, had caused MySQL to lock up.
> All of the apache
> processes were likely in a blocked state, waiting
> for MySQL to respond.
> Just because there are lots of processes running,
> doesn't mean they're
> actually responding.
>
> --
> Nick Reinking -- eschewing obfuscation since 1981 --
> Minneapolis, MN

Nick, did you read that message I forwarded several
hours ago from Ryo ? I was on my old email address
when I did the forward, and the wikitech list refused
it (the weird thing is that I just checked pending
request, and there are none, so I don't know where
that mail actually is:-)). But it got accepted on the
main list.

In short, Ryo reported he made a query around 11 am.
Just after that query, there were no answer from the
server for about 5 mn. Shortly after the server
finally answered, he made another one, and immediately
after he made that query, the server stopped
answering...for about 9 hours

these are the queries he made

select l.cur_title, r.cur_title from cur l inner join
links lnk on binary l.cur_title = binary lnk.l_from
inner join cur r on binary r.cur_title = binary
lnk.l_to where r.cur_text like '%#redirect%'

then simply

select count( * ) from links

could this be an explanation ?
or not ?

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
> (Anthere <anthere6@yahoo.com>):
>
> select l.cur_title, r.cur_title from cur l inner join
> links lnk on binary l.cur_title = binary lnk.l_from
> inner join cur r on binary r.cur_title = binary
> lnk.l_to where r.cur_text like '%#redirect%'

"where ... like '%..." is a no-no, especially on a
join, as it will cause a full search of every record.

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 12:54:03PM -0800, Anthere wrote:
>
> --- Nick Reinking <nick@twoevils.org> wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 01:53:29PM -0600, Lee Daniel
> > Crocker wrote:
> > > > (Anthere <anthere6@yahoo.com>):
> > > >
> > > > Say Lee, the last connexion to the french wiki
> > was
> > > > done at 11:21 am
> > > > It was down from 11:21 to about a couple of
> > minutes
> > > > ago (that is 20:23)
> > > > Between these two times (so ... 9 hours...),
> > > > absolutely NO connexions were possible
> > > > I just checked ...was the same on the en
> > apparently
> > > >
> > > > so....which traffic ? from where ? from who ?
> > any idea
> > >
> > > Well, that's the first time I'd heard that. And
> > there's
> > > only one server: just because there's no traffic
> > on one of
> > > the many wikis doesn't mean the server isn't busy
> > as hell.
> > >
> > > The only message I got this morning was "the wiki
> > is down".
> > > That didn't tell me anything, so I logged on and
> > saw that
> > > the CPU load was maxed out, and that there were
> > hundreds
> > > of active connections. Looked like regular traffic
> > to me.
>
> I dunno Lee
> The wiki has been horribly slow for the past 2 weeks,
> and many editors have already gave up editing because
> of this
> Today, it was just as if wiki didnot existed at all
> during 9 hours, which were full day hours
> And not only was there no response from the server at
> all, but no response on the mailing list either. That
> is a bit disturbing I would say.
> In short, if 13/14 days it takes about 1 mn to respond
> for each page during day time, and the 14th day wiki
> doesnot exist at all, well, it won't be long for
> anybody to just give up
>
> Besides, I checked on the english wiki, and I saw
> there were no edits in the recent changes log for many
> hours, so you can hardly say it is no response from
> "one of the numerous wiki". This was a general matter.
> So, we wonder.
>
> > > It seems to be responding better now after the
> > kick, but
> > > I'm reluctant to restart the server (which
> > involves breaking
> > > all active connections) unless I get a more
> > specific report
> > > than "the wiki is down".
> >
> > Well, hard to expect much more than that from a user
> > who doesn't have a
> > login to the server itself. By the way, my guess is
> > that some query, or
> > perhaps some quirk, had caused MySQL to lock up.
> > All of the apache
> > processes were likely in a blocked state, waiting
> > for MySQL to respond.
> > Just because there are lots of processes running,
> > doesn't mean they're
> > actually responding.
> >
> > --
> > Nick Reinking -- eschewing obfuscation since 1981 --
> > Minneapolis, MN
>
> Nick, did you read that message I forwarded several
> hours ago from Ryo ? I was on my old email address
> when I did the forward, and the wikitech list refused
> it (the weird thing is that I just checked pending
> request, and there are none, so I don't know where
> that mail actually is:-)). But it got accepted on the
> main list.
>
> In short, Ryo reported he made a query around 11 am.
> Just after that query, there were no answer from the
> server for about 5 mn. Shortly after the server
> finally answered, he made another one, and immediately
> after he made that query, the server stopped
> answering...for about 9 hours
>
> these are the queries he made
>
> select l.cur_title, r.cur_title from cur l inner join
> links lnk on binary l.cur_title = binary lnk.l_from
> inner join cur r on binary r.cur_title = binary
> lnk.l_to where r.cur_text like '%#redirect%'
>
> then simply
>
> select count( * ) from links
>
> could this be an explanation ?
> or not ?

No, I didn't get the email. As far as I know, it didn't make it to the
list. I'm guessing that maybe he pushed the machine beyond what it
could handle, and perhaps MySQL just shat all over itself. To be fair,
it is hard to expect any software to run perfectly under low resource
situations. Perhaps an upgrade to a later kernel might help, but really
the problem is somebody using too much of a finite resource.

--
Nick Reinking -- eschewing obfuscation since 1981 -- Minneapolis, MN
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 03:00:43PM -0600, Lee Daniel Crocker wrote:
> > (Anthere <anthere6@yahoo.com>):
> >
> > select l.cur_title, r.cur_title from cur l inner join
> > links lnk on binary l.cur_title = binary lnk.l_from
> > inner join cur r on binary r.cur_title = binary
> > lnk.l_to where r.cur_text like '%#redirect%'
>
> "where ... like '%..." is a no-no, especially on a
> join, as it will cause a full search of every record.

Note that if we were running PostgreSQL, we could set timeout limits on
a per user basis. :P

--
Nick Reinking -- eschewing obfuscation since 1981 -- Minneapolis, MN
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Nick Reinking wrote:
> Note that if we were running PostgreSQL, we could set timeout limits on
> a per user basis. :P

Note that if someone wants us to run PostgreSQL, they should put their
code where their mouth is and adapt the software to run with it. :)

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 01:18:08PM -0800, Brion Vibber wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Nick Reinking wrote:
> > Note that if we were running PostgreSQL, we could set timeout limits on
> > a per user basis. :P
>
> Note that if someone wants us to run PostgreSQL, they should put their
> code where their mouth is and adapt the software to run with it. :)

Well, if I had a machine beefy enough to run a copy of the en Wikipedia,
I'd be happy to do so. Has the second box come in? Maybe we can throw
it on both, and have a little bakeoff?

--
Nick Reinking -- eschewing obfuscation since 1981 -- Minneapolis, MN
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
Brion Vibber wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Nick Reinking wrote:

> Note that if someone wants us to run PostgreSQL, they should put their
> code where their mouth is and adapt the software to run with it. :)
>

Adapting the software IMHO is not the main problem, what about all those
sysop's depending on e.g. mysql syntax? And I think there are more
open questions.
But soon after getting the latex conversion at work, I start testing if
I can gamble with wikipedia at home, and this requires wikipedia to run
on postgresql - no way using mysql on my home system ;)

Smurf
--
------------------------- Anthill inside! ---------------------------
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
> (Brion Vibber <vibber@aludra.usc.edu>):
> On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Nick Reinking wrote:
> > Note that if we were running PostgreSQL, we could set timeout limits on
> > a per user basis. :P
>
> Note that if someone wants us to run PostgreSQL, they should put their
> code where their mouth is and adapt the software to run with it. :)

As I said earlier, MySQL 4.0.12 is the first thing I want to
experiment with; Postgres might well be the second, and I already
isolated all the MySQL-isms of the code into one place so it
shouldn't be too hard to adapt.

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
> (Nick Reinking <nick@twoevils.org>):
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 01:18:08PM -0800, Brion Vibber wrote:
> > On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Nick Reinking wrote:
> > > Note that if we were running PostgreSQL, we could set timeout limits on
> > > a per user basis. :P
> >
> > Note that if someone wants us to run PostgreSQL, they should put their
> > code where their mouth is and adapt the software to run with it. :)
>
> Well, if I had a machine beefy enough to run a copy of the en Wikipedia,
> I'd be happy to do so. Has the second box come in? Maybe we can throw
> it on both, and have a little bakeoff?

It doesn't take much. My test setup at home is old Compaq with
a 400Mhz K6 and an 8Gb drive.

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Nick Reinking wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 01:18:08PM -0800, Brion Vibber wrote:
> > Note that if someone wants us to run PostgreSQL, they should put their
> > code where their mouth is and adapt the software to run with it. :)
>
> Well, if I had a machine beefy enough to run a copy of the en Wikipedia,
> I'd be happy to do so. Has the second box come in? Maybe we can throw
> it on both, and have a little bakeoff?

Feel free to experiment with one of the smaller databases to start with.

We've a wide distribution of shapes and sizes. :) You can start small 'n'
easy with Danish, for instance, or try French for a reasonable
intermediate size.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Re: wikipedia dead again [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 10:40:01PM +0100, Thomas Corell wrote:
> Brion Vibber wrote:
> >On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Nick Reinking wrote:
>
> >Note that if someone wants us to run PostgreSQL, they should put their
> >code where their mouth is and adapt the software to run with it. :)
> >
>
> Adapting the software IMHO is not the main problem, what about all those
> sysop's depending on e.g. mysql syntax? And I think there are more
> open questions.
> But soon after getting the latex conversion at work, I start testing if
> I can gamble with wikipedia at home, and this requires wikipedia to run
> on postgresql - no way using mysql on my home system ;)

I don't think the syntax is that radically different. Most of what
people do are simple SELECTS which should be pretty much the same across
every database, ever.

--
Nick Reinking -- eschewing obfuscation since 1981 -- Minneapolis, MN

1 2  View All