Mailing List Archive

> Your new software is up and running. I think it looks o.k., but I'm
often wrong
> about such things. :-)

I am getting redirected from www.wikipedia.de to de.wikipedia.org, which
is the english wikipedia, but maybe that'll change in the next minutes.

What I can see, is that
http://de-beta.wikipedia.org
has a new database, but still with the upper/lowercase problems. Has
someone saved the old bug reports, or have really all bugs been
corrected?


Kurt

> Your new software is up and running. I think it looks o.k.,
> but I'm often wrong about such things. :-)
>
> If this goes well, then which language is next? :-)

Astronomer already did most of the Spanish translation, so that
should be easy (especially since my Spanish is almost adequate to
make fixes in it as well). I think the Polish guys are also hot
to get started, but I haven't seen anyone step up as possible
administrative help there.

>It looks like the case-fixing script was not run. Examples:
>
>Broken link on the main page to [[Körper des Menschen]], article is
>still at [[Körper Des Menschen]].

I know I ran it; maybe I don't understand how it's supposed to work
and ran it at the wrong time or something. How tricky would it be
for you to update to run against the new DB format?

On Wed, Aug 28, 2002 at 12:29:27PM -0700, Jimmy Wales wrote:
> Your new software is up and running. I think it looks o.k., but I'm often wrong
> about such things. :-)
>

Hi Jimmy,

I can't find the images. E.g. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_am_Main
references an image which can not be found. [[Spezial:Imagelist]] lists
no images.

Regards,

JeLuF

Jimmy Wales wrote:
> Your new software is up and running. I think it looks o.k., but I'm often wrong
> about such things. :-)

It looks like the case-fixing script was not run. Examples:

Broken link on the main page to [[Körper des Menschen]], article is
still at [[Körper Des Menschen]].

Broken link on [[Wikipedia Beteiligen]] to [[Wikipedia Urheberrechte
beachten]], article is still at [[Wikipedia Urheberrechte Beachten]].

Probably plenty more of those.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

> I can't find the images. E.g.
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_am_Main
> references an image which can not be found.
> [[Spezial:Imagelist]] lists no images.

Ah, I see what happened. For the English wiki conversion,
I changed all the external links to local images into
[[image:...]] references. The external references to
wikipedia images on the German site really are external,
though, and they probably shouldn't have been translated.
On the other hand, those images really should be moved to
the new site so that the wikis are more independent, so I'm
inclined to think that leaving them "broken" is the right
thing to do, to encourage authors toput them into the new
site. I'm open to other idea though.

On Wednesday 28 August 2002 19:25, lcrocker@nupedia.com wrote:
> Ah, I see what happened. For the English wiki conversion,
> I changed all the external links to local images into
> [[image:...]] references. The external references to
> wikipedia images on the German site really are external,
> though, and they probably shouldn't have been translated.
> On the other hand, those images really should be moved to
> the new site so that the wikis are more independent, so I'm
> inclined to think that leaving them "broken" is the right
> thing to do, to encourage authors toput them into the new
> site. I'm open to other idea though.

Some images should be on a wiki in a particular language (for instance the
map of China and environs) and some should be on one wiki and usable by all
(most chemical diagrams, pictures without words). How about
[[en:image:foo.jpg]] to mean that an image is on the English wiki, even if
the link is on the German one?

phma

lcrocker@nupedia.com wrote:
>>It looks like the case-fixing script was not run. Examples:
>>
>>Broken link on the main page to [[Körper des Menschen]], article is
>>still at [[Körper Des Menschen]].
>
> I know I ran it; maybe I don't understand how it's supposed to work
> and ran it at the wrong time or something.

Hmm, did it spit out a bunch of messages like "Renaming XXX to YYY...",
"Making redirect from XXX to YYY..." and "(don't need to rename XXX)"?

> How tricky would it be
> for you to update to run against the new DB format?

Shouldn't be too hard, I'll get right on that.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

> Your new software is up and running. I think it looks o.k., but I'm often
wrong
> about such things. :-)
>
> If this goes well, then which language is next? :-)

French, French, French !!!

Aoineko ;o)

> Any objection to batch-adding them?
> I was just starting on that now.

I'd have no objection to a batch process that added images
that are already referenced to the new site, and properly
updated the database. I wouldn't want to move images that
aren't referenced.

> Some images should be on a wiki in a particular language (for
> instance the map of China and environs) and some should be on
> one wiki and usable by all (most chemical diagrams, pictures
> without words). How about [[en:image:foo.jpg]] to mean that an
> image is on the English wiki, even if the link is on the German
> one?

I would generally prefer to encourage duplication; that way, the
whole German (or Spanish, etc.) wiki could be easily reproduced
from a database and image directory backup. But since images are
kind of "external" anyway, and the links properly define where to
get them, I might be convinced that inter-wiki image links are OK.
I would think the simplest way to do it is to have [[image:...]]
reference the English wiki, and [[bild:...]] the German one.

> French, French, French !!!

Choose a volunteer, then go to http://wikipedia.sourceforge.net .
Browse the new codebase in CVS, and look at the files
"Language.php" and "LanguageDe.php" for an example of what
needs to be done for the translation. As soon as someone
makes me a "LanguageFr.php" that's reasonably complete, we
can move forward.

> Choose a volunteer, then go to http://wikipedia.sourceforge.net .
> Browse the new codebase in CVS, and look at the files
> "Language.php" and "LanguageDe.php" for an example of what
> needs to be done for the translation. As soon as someone
> makes me a "LanguageFr.php" that's reasonably complete, we
> can move forward.

We finised translation some weeks ago.
But it's seem the version we translated is not the more recent version...
I'm waiting about Brion feedback.

Aoineko

> Sorry, I haven't gotten a chance to work on it yet; I just finished the
> Esperanto one. By all means, start work on converting the French!

Thank you very much.
If we can help, please tell !

Aoineko

lcrocker@nupedia.com wrote:
> Ah, I see what happened. For the English wiki conversion,
> I changed all the external links to local images into
> [[image:...]] references. The external references to
> wikipedia images on the German site really are external,
> though, and they probably shouldn't have been translated.
> On the other hand, those images really should be moved to
> the new site so that the wikis are more independent, so I'm
> inclined to think that leaving them "broken" is the right
> thing to do, to encourage authors toput them into the new
> site. I'm open to other idea though.

Any objection to batch-adding them? I was just starting on that now.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

Guillaume wrote:
>>Choose a volunteer, then go to http://wikipedia.sourceforge.net .
>>Browse the new codebase in CVS, and look at the files
>>"Language.php" and "LanguageDe.php" for an example of what
>>needs to be done for the translation. As soon as someone
>>makes me a "LanguageFr.php" that's reasonably complete, we
>>can move forward.
>
>
> We finised translation some weeks ago.
> But it's seem the version we translated is not the more recent version...
> I'm waiting about Brion feedback.

Sorry, I haven't gotten a chance to work on it yet; I just finished the
Esperanto one. By all means, start work on converting the French!

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

A few other oddities:

* Redirects with special pages don't work; something goes awry, and the
request goes to la-la land and fails. Example:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letzte_%C4nderungen/Test
(which should redirect to Spezial:Recentchanges) and
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spezial:Randompage

* The access log (/usr/local/apache/logs/de.wikipedia.org-access_log)
has stopped logging accesses to /w/wiki.phtml. This makes it a little
difficult to track what's going on!

I do see these show up in the generic error_log, though, whenever I
access a page on the German wiki:

Wed Aug 28 16:36:47 2002] [notice] child pid 4451 exit signal Illegal
instruction (4)

* Somebody commented out the rewrite rules I added that kept existing
links to the wiki intact. I put them back.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

> * Redirects with special pages don't work;

I'll take a look at that--that's a special piece of code
in Article.php.

> * Somebody commented out the rewrite rules I added that kept
> existing links to the wiki intact. I put them back.

That was me; I was just debugging something and I wasn't
sure what they did so I commented them out to make sure
they weren't causing my problem. But if they work OK now,
they shoulud certainly be left in.

I wrote:
> * Redirects with special pages don't work; something goes awry, and the
> request goes to la-la land and fails.
...
> * The access log (/usr/local/apache/logs/de.wikipedia.org-access_log)
> has stopped logging accesses to /w/wiki.phtml.

Both fixed. Note: when in doubt, clear out the *_apc cache files.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

lcrocker@nupedia.com wrote:
>>Any objection to batch-adding them?
>>I was just starting on that now.
>
> I'd have no objection to a batch process that added images
> that are already referenced to the new site, and properly
> updated the database. I wouldn't want to move images that
> aren't referenced.

The used images are copied over now, but just for future reference, the
conversion script needs to be changed to use the language-approriate
namespace instead of hardcoding "image" into the articles.

I'll run another little script to flip all the references over to "bild"
for now so that the links actually work!

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

On Wednesday 28 August 2002 20:03, lcrocker@nupedia.com wrote:
> I would think the simplest way to do it is to have [[image:...]]
> reference the English wiki, and [[bild:...]] the German one.

So what do you call the French one? And isn't "bild" also in some other
Germanic language?

phma

>> I would think the simplest way to do it is to have [[image:...]]
>> reference the English wiki, and [[bild:...]] the German one.

> So what do you call the French one? And isn't "bild" also in some
> other Germanic language?

The latter isn't a problem; it can link to local images in the
Dutch wikipedia as well--I didn't intend to be able to cross-link
from any language to any other, just to have "local" and "main"
images. But your point about French is a good one. I aleady do
accept links like "en:user:Fred", so "en:bild:Fred.jpg" isn't
much of a stretch.

Okay, I just wanted to say "Thank you!" to everybody who made this
possible: Lee, Brion, Magnus, and everybody else involved. The new
software has a really nice "feel", and the features are just great. I
knew the software from the English Wikipedia, but it's another thing to
see it on "our own" wiki.

Brion is working on the upper to lower case script, so that problem will
be solved soon.

I'd like to delete a few pages (empty ones, of course <g>), and make
some database queries (yes, I'll be careful), so could someone please
make me admin, sysop or whatever I need to be able to do this?

It would be nice to have the old German usemod Wikipedia on a subdomain,
just in case something got lost on the way to the new database (like the
talk pages from our HomePage). If we do this, could we prevent google
and others from indexing it?

Google has indexed test-de.wikipedia.com and de-beta.wikipedia.com, so
maybe we should redirect from there to www.wikipedia.de, if we don't
already do this.


Kurt

Kurt Jansson wrote:
> Okay, I just wanted to say "Thank you!" to everybody who made this
> possible: Lee, Brion, Magnus, and everybody else involved. The new
> software has a really nice "feel", and the features are just great. I
> knew the software from the English Wikipedia, but it's another thing to
> see it on "our own" wiki.

As the first non-English to get a production conversion, you're the
guinea pigs. Keep finding those problems for us. ;)

> I'd like to delete a few pages (empty ones, of course <g>), and make
> some database queries (yes, I'll be careful), so could someone please
> make me admin, sysop or whatever I need to be able to do this?

Poof, you're a sysop.

> It would be nice to have the old German usemod Wikipedia on a subdomain,
> just in case something got lost on the way to the new database (like the
> talk pages from our HomePage). If we do this, could we prevent google
> and others from indexing it?

I second this; the old stuff needs to be accessible, at least until
everyone's confident that large swathes of data aren't missing (anymore).

Which reminds me: how can I get at the old Usemod database for the
English wikipedia? I'd like to get the old revisions merged in at some
point, but I can't do it without the data!

> Google has indexed test-de.wikipedia.com and de-beta.wikipedia.com, so
> maybe we should redirect from there to www.wikipedia.de, if we don't
> already do this.

de-beta.wikipedia.org should already bring up the correct wiki;
test-de.wikipedia.com needs to be changed in the DNS. Jimbo, Jason?

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)