Thanks Benoit, I'm so happy to see the Editing Team and the WMF are working
on this! I think it will be another great success, just like the talk pages
project. Keep up the good work !!
El sáb., 9 de mar. de 2024 9:43 a. m., Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
galder158@hotmail.com> escribió:
> Hello,
> When I was born, I didn't know how to speak or walk. When I started in the
> school, I didn't know how to multiply 2x2. When I started in the
> University, I didn't know how to research a topic within academy standards.
> When I first drove a car in the driving school, I didn't know how to drive
> properly. In everyone of these learning steps, I had someone helping me: my
> parents, my teachers, my professors, my driving-teacher(?). When I started
> writing in Wikipedia, I didn't know what a template was, how to make a
> redirect, what to link or not and how to properly add a reference. Instead
> of just deleting things, we (the community) should help newbies. You can
> learn with a text written inside a box or whatever, but way better is if we
> help them, take what they did and correct it and let them improve. Could
> the editing platform be better designed? For sure. But we are a community.
> It is in our hands to be rude with the newbies or welcoming. I try to chose
> the second one.
>
> Best,
>
> Galder
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 9, 2024 1:18 PM
> *To:* effeietsanders@gmail.com <effeietsanders@gmail.com>; Wikimedia
> Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Mopping with the tap open
>
> could there be message box that asks a simple question like "thank you for
> the contribution, where did you get this information from?" with a text
> field, it just adds it to the edit description. so something is captured in
> the edit history.
>
> On Sat, 9 Mar 2024 at 10:25, effe iets anders <effeietsanders@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks Benoit,
> This sounds like a good step in the right direction. We'll need to try out
> several of these approaches, but also improve our own documentation on
> nl.wikipedia. My impression is that it is currently far too hard to add a
> reference, to expect that this is done by most new contributors.
>
> Do we know more about:
> * How many new contributors know they should add a reference, e.g. when
> writing a new article
> * If they know that they should add a reference, how many know how to
> recognize a good reference from a poor one
> * How many new contributors, if they know that they should add a
> reference, can figure out how to actually make this happen (assuming they
> know the url already)
> * Assuming that they can find the reference button, and know their URL, in
> how many cases does the auto-convert feature work? (we could test this by
> taking a random sample of reference URLs, and entering them in the
> reference insertion tool)
>
> These are not just technical problems - some of them are more about
> awareness (we can focus for example a little less on copyright, and more on
> other quality aspects) or good documentation (how to recognize a good
> source?). I also suspect that these numbers might vary quite a bit across
> communities/countries.
>
> In my personal experience, it is hard to add references to articles even
> if all the 'social' steps work smoothly (they often dont!). Maybe my sample
> is biased, but it feels like I get much more often an error in nlwiki when
> I try to convert a url to a citation, than in enwiki. Does anyone know if
> this is indeed the case? Is anyone tracking statistics on this?
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
>
> On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 4:03?PM <bevellin@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> Some wikis have added the requirement to add citations at the edit summary
> step. But it is clearly too late in the process, as users just want to
> publish. Some users will add citations as a second step, but it might be
> too late, as the edit has a great chance of being reverted meanwhile.
>
> You might be interested in the Editing team's current project, Edit check <
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Edit_check>.
>
> This project aims to provide in-context help by checking on the edit. The
> first iteration is "Reference Check": if a user adds a paragraph with zero
> source, they are encouraged to add one. We are currently testing it at 22
> Wikipedias, to verify if the prompt to add citations is not blocking users.
>
> You can test it at your wiki using an URL parameter:
> 1. Edit any article in the main namespace using the VisualEditor.
> 2. Add &ecenable=1 to the URL in your browser. -- For example in Dutch, as
> Romaine started the thread:
> https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Zon&veaction=edit&ecenable=1
> 3. Reload the page with the new URL.
> 4. Create a new paragraph, that is at least 50 characters long without
> adding a citation
> 5. Press the Publish… Notice the prompt that appears
> 6. Test is completed, don't save your edit unless you know what you are
> doing.
>
> All edits are tagged, so that you can find them in Recent Changes or in
> your Watchlist. If a user selects "no" after the prompt, they have to
> select a reason why. That reason is tagged as well, easing experienced
> users' work on patrolling and improving these edits.
>
> We will soon add a message if the added citation is listed on
> MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist or MediaWiki:BlockedExternalDomains.json.
>
> As Edit Check only checks the first paragraph added, the next iteration
> will be to add multi-Reference checks. We are currently working on the
> design for multi-checks.
>
> Of course, Edit Check is not limited to adding citations. We can imagine
> other ways to close the tap. Your suggestions are welcomed, as are your
> questions.
>
> Thank you,
> --
> Benoît Evellin - Trizek_(WMF) (he/him)
> Community Relations Specialist
> Wikimedia Foundation
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> Public archives at
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/RWQIXLQEBNC62THG5J4TY7OCHCKRAPUF/
> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> Public archives at
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/Z4Q5NQEEOM4SACUUIBKQRSMM3EVG6WMV/
> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>
>
>
> --
> Boodarwun
> Gnangarra
> 'ngany dabakarn koorliny arn boodjera dardon nlangan Nyungar koortabodjar'
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> Public archives at
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/NDGP3UJGISAE75URQK3ONDTAT64S7NSS/
> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
on this! I think it will be another great success, just like the talk pages
project. Keep up the good work !!
El sáb., 9 de mar. de 2024 9:43 a. m., Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
galder158@hotmail.com> escribió:
> Hello,
> When I was born, I didn't know how to speak or walk. When I started in the
> school, I didn't know how to multiply 2x2. When I started in the
> University, I didn't know how to research a topic within academy standards.
> When I first drove a car in the driving school, I didn't know how to drive
> properly. In everyone of these learning steps, I had someone helping me: my
> parents, my teachers, my professors, my driving-teacher(?). When I started
> writing in Wikipedia, I didn't know what a template was, how to make a
> redirect, what to link or not and how to properly add a reference. Instead
> of just deleting things, we (the community) should help newbies. You can
> learn with a text written inside a box or whatever, but way better is if we
> help them, take what they did and correct it and let them improve. Could
> the editing platform be better designed? For sure. But we are a community.
> It is in our hands to be rude with the newbies or welcoming. I try to chose
> the second one.
>
> Best,
>
> Galder
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 9, 2024 1:18 PM
> *To:* effeietsanders@gmail.com <effeietsanders@gmail.com>; Wikimedia
> Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Mopping with the tap open
>
> could there be message box that asks a simple question like "thank you for
> the contribution, where did you get this information from?" with a text
> field, it just adds it to the edit description. so something is captured in
> the edit history.
>
> On Sat, 9 Mar 2024 at 10:25, effe iets anders <effeietsanders@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks Benoit,
> This sounds like a good step in the right direction. We'll need to try out
> several of these approaches, but also improve our own documentation on
> nl.wikipedia. My impression is that it is currently far too hard to add a
> reference, to expect that this is done by most new contributors.
>
> Do we know more about:
> * How many new contributors know they should add a reference, e.g. when
> writing a new article
> * If they know that they should add a reference, how many know how to
> recognize a good reference from a poor one
> * How many new contributors, if they know that they should add a
> reference, can figure out how to actually make this happen (assuming they
> know the url already)
> * Assuming that they can find the reference button, and know their URL, in
> how many cases does the auto-convert feature work? (we could test this by
> taking a random sample of reference URLs, and entering them in the
> reference insertion tool)
>
> These are not just technical problems - some of them are more about
> awareness (we can focus for example a little less on copyright, and more on
> other quality aspects) or good documentation (how to recognize a good
> source?). I also suspect that these numbers might vary quite a bit across
> communities/countries.
>
> In my personal experience, it is hard to add references to articles even
> if all the 'social' steps work smoothly (they often dont!). Maybe my sample
> is biased, but it feels like I get much more often an error in nlwiki when
> I try to convert a url to a citation, than in enwiki. Does anyone know if
> this is indeed the case? Is anyone tracking statistics on this?
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
>
> On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 4:03?PM <bevellin@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> Some wikis have added the requirement to add citations at the edit summary
> step. But it is clearly too late in the process, as users just want to
> publish. Some users will add citations as a second step, but it might be
> too late, as the edit has a great chance of being reverted meanwhile.
>
> You might be interested in the Editing team's current project, Edit check <
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Edit_check>.
>
> This project aims to provide in-context help by checking on the edit. The
> first iteration is "Reference Check": if a user adds a paragraph with zero
> source, they are encouraged to add one. We are currently testing it at 22
> Wikipedias, to verify if the prompt to add citations is not blocking users.
>
> You can test it at your wiki using an URL parameter:
> 1. Edit any article in the main namespace using the VisualEditor.
> 2. Add &ecenable=1 to the URL in your browser. -- For example in Dutch, as
> Romaine started the thread:
> https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Zon&veaction=edit&ecenable=1
> 3. Reload the page with the new URL.
> 4. Create a new paragraph, that is at least 50 characters long without
> adding a citation
> 5. Press the Publish… Notice the prompt that appears
> 6. Test is completed, don't save your edit unless you know what you are
> doing.
>
> All edits are tagged, so that you can find them in Recent Changes or in
> your Watchlist. If a user selects "no" after the prompt, they have to
> select a reason why. That reason is tagged as well, easing experienced
> users' work on patrolling and improving these edits.
>
> We will soon add a message if the added citation is listed on
> MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist or MediaWiki:BlockedExternalDomains.json.
>
> As Edit Check only checks the first paragraph added, the next iteration
> will be to add multi-Reference checks. We are currently working on the
> design for multi-checks.
>
> Of course, Edit Check is not limited to adding citations. We can imagine
> other ways to close the tap. Your suggestions are welcomed, as are your
> questions.
>
> Thank you,
> --
> Benoît Evellin - Trizek_(WMF) (he/him)
> Community Relations Specialist
> Wikimedia Foundation
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> Public archives at
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/RWQIXLQEBNC62THG5J4TY7OCHCKRAPUF/
> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> Public archives at
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/Z4Q5NQEEOM4SACUUIBKQRSMM3EVG6WMV/
> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>
>
>
> --
> Boodarwun
> Gnangarra
> 'ngany dabakarn koorliny arn boodjera dardon nlangan Nyungar koortabodjar'
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> Public archives at
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/NDGP3UJGISAE75URQK3ONDTAT64S7NSS/
> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org