Mailing List Archive

Hi Anthere,

Le Tuesday 03 August 2004 13:51, Anthere a écrit :
> http://www.wikimedia.org/wiki/Home
>
> Is the address of the new foundation website.
>
> It is currently totally a work in progress. Angela has been working on a
> nice html home page, so it look good later on, but it is not in place yet.
> I set a new menu yesterday and put some pages already.
> We need your help to participate :-) If you feel like it, you are most
> welcome :-)
>
> For now, only loggued-in user can work on it, and only sysop can create
> an accout.
>
> If you wish an account to update or improve the pages, please ask Angela
> for the next weeks. We reserve the right to refuse access, but we wish
> to give it pretty liberally :-) Any access given by Angela will be okay
> by me while I am away.
>
> Some areas will be restricted later on (for example financial reports
> will be protected) and editable only by sysop. For now, nothing is
> protected.
>
> We need your help so that this site appears decent. Thanks in advance :-)
>
> ant

I would like to help translate the foundation web site into French and to be
member of the Press Team.

Yann

--
http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence
http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net
http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclopédie libre
http://www.forget-me.net/pro/ | Formations et services Linux

--- Anthere <anthere9@yahoo.com> wrote:

> http://www.wikimedia.org/wiki/Home
>
> Is the address of the new foundation website.

I'm confused. In the meeting we decided to have it at wikimediafoundation.org.
That will happen when the website goes live, right? If this is the plan, then I
support that, but your post was not clear on this point.

Full HTML support is also still needed. Until then I really can't work on
donation pages for that website.

> Some areas will be restricted later on (for example financial reports
> will be protected) and editable only by sysop. For now, nothing is
> protected.

If the whole website will be HTML-enabled, then page protection alone will not
be enough to ensure security. That is unless only protected pages will support
full HTML.

-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)



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Yann Forget a écrit:
> Hi Anthere,
>
> Le Tuesday 03 August 2004 13:51, Anthere a écrit :
>
>>http://www.wikimedia.org/wiki/Home
>>
>>Is the address of the new foundation website.
>>
>>It is currently totally a work in progress. Angela has been working on a
>>nice html home page, so it look good later on, but it is not in place yet.
>>I set a new menu yesterday and put some pages already.
>>We need your help to participate :-) If you feel like it, you are most
>>welcome :-)
>>
>>For now, only loggued-in user can work on it, and only sysop can create
>>an accout.
>>
>>If you wish an account to update or improve the pages, please ask Angela
>>for the next weeks. We reserve the right to refuse access, but we wish
>>to give it pretty liberally :-) Any access given by Angela will be okay
>>by me while I am away.
>>
>>Some areas will be restricted later on (for example financial reports
>>will be protected) and editable only by sysop. For now, nothing is
>>protected.
>>
>>We need your help so that this site appears decent. Thanks in advance :-)
>>
>>ant
>
>
> I would like to help translate the foundation web site into French and to be
> member of the Press Team.
>
> Yann

Ton login est Yann. Envoi toi un nouveau mot de passe.

ant

Daniel Mayer a écrit:
> --- Anthere <anthere9@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>http://www.wikimedia.org/wiki/Home
>>
>>Is the address of the new foundation website.
>
>
> I'm confused. In the meeting we decided to have it at wikimediafoundation.org.
> That will happen when the website goes live, right? If this is the plan, then I
> support that, but your post was not clear on this point.

You are correct. We agreed that the adress would be wikimediafoundation,
in particular for domain names issues. I must remember we have to
contact the current owner. Would you perhaps do it Mav ? Tell us if you
do or do not please.


I suppose that once the www.wikimedia.org will be a little bit more
organised and MOSTLY when it will support the fundraising page, we will
remove the current site at wikimediafoundation.org and move the other one.

Till then, we'll have to have two sites in order to support the
fundraising page :-)


> Full HTML support is also still needed. Until then I really can't work on
> donation pages for that website.

I agree.


>>Some areas will be restricted later on (for example financial reports
>>will be protected) and editable only by sysop. For now, nothing is
>>protected.
>
>
> If the whole website will be HTML-enabled, then page protection alone will not
> be enough to ensure security. That is unless only protected pages will support
> full HTML.


I did not remembered that subtility. Well, if protecting ALL pages
requiring HTML is required for security, we could protect all of them I
guess.

Which pages do you think will require HTML ?


ant

Anthere a écrit:
>
>
> Yann Forget a écrit:
>
>> Hi Anthere,
>>
>> Le Tuesday 03 August 2004 13:51, Anthere a écrit :
>>
>>> http://www.wikimedia.org/wiki/Home
>>>
>>> Is the address of the new foundation website.
>>>
>>> It is currently totally a work in progress. Angela has been working on a
>>> nice html home page, so it look good later on, but it is not in place
>>> yet.
>>> I set a new menu yesterday and put some pages already.
>>> We need your help to participate :-) If you feel like it, you are most
>>> welcome :-)
>>>
>>> For now, only loggued-in user can work on it, and only sysop can create
>>> an accout.
>>>
>>> If you wish an account to update or improve the pages, please ask Angela
>>> for the next weeks. We reserve the right to refuse access, but we wish
>>> to give it pretty liberally :-) Any access given by Angela will be okay
>>> by me while I am away.
>>>
>>> Some areas will be restricted later on (for example financial reports
>>> will be protected) and editable only by sysop. For now, nothing is
>>> protected.
>>>
>>> We need your help so that this site appears decent. Thanks in advance :-)
>>>
>>> ant
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to help translate the foundation web site into French and
>> to be member of the Press Team.
>>
>> Yann
>
>
> Ton login est Yann. Envoi toi un nouveau mot de passe.
>
> an
> t

En fait, Angel a été plus rapide que moi.

Le Tuesday 03 August 2004 22:02, Anthere a écrit :

> http://www.wikimedia.org/wiki/Home
>
> Is the address of the new foundation website.

What structure was decided regarding languages?
What will be the home page in French f.e.?
How are done links to other languages?

> En fait, Angel a été plus rapide que moi.

Yes. ;o)

Yann
--
http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence
http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net
http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclopédie libre
http://www.forget-me.net/pro/ | Formations et services Linux

--- Anthere <anthere9@yahoo.com> wrote:
> .... I must remember we have to
> contact the current owner. Would you perhaps do it Mav ? Tell us if you
> do or do not please.

I could, but they will likely want us to pay for the domain name. I would
prefer if somebody who speaks German fluently could conduct those negotiations.


> I suppose that once the www.wikimedia.org will be a little bit more
> organised and MOSTLY when it will support the fundraising page, we will
> remove the current site at wikimediafoundation.org and move the other one.

Nod. Another thing that should happen is applying the skin that Angela has been
working on.

> I did not remembered that subtility. Well, if protecting ALL pages
> requiring HTML is required for security, we could protect all of them I
> guess.

I don't think it is currently possible to set HTML support based on whether or
not a page is protected. But that would be a very useful thing to have for the
foundation website since then we would not have to worry as much about just who
we allow to have accounts.

Another idea would be to have full HTML support only on templates (if coding
such a thing would be easier to set per namespace). Then HTML support could be
restricted via namespace instead of protection status. I'm pretty sure that
MediaWiki can already set access permissions based on namespace.

> Which pages do you think will require HTML ?

A set of fundraising pages and also various forms, such as signing up to be a
member or assigning copyright to the foundation, etc.

-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)



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Daniel Mayer a écrit:
> --- Anthere <anthere9@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>.... I must remember we have to
>>contact the current owner. Would you perhaps do it Mav ? Tell us if you
>>do or do not please.
>
>
> I could, but they will likely want us to pay for the domain name. I would
> prefer if somebody who speaks German fluently could conduct those negotiations.


Well, paying them for something they paid and could give us appears fair :-)

OKay, is there a german person willing to contact the owner of
http://www.wikimedia.com/ ?

Daniel Mayer wrote:
> I don't think it is currently possible to set HTML support based on whether or
> not a page is protected. But that would be a very useful thing to have for the
> foundation website since then we would not have to worry as much about just who
> we allow to have accounts.
>
> Another idea would be to have full HTML support only on templates (if coding
> such a thing would be easier to set per namespace). Then HTML support could be
> restricted via namespace instead of protection status. I'm pretty sure that
> MediaWiki can already set access permissions based on namespace.

Such restrictions would be really really unreliable. I would not
recommend it.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

I would love to see a simple "pick your language" portal, a la
http://www.easyjet.com/ . Then /wiki/en/Home or /wiki/de/Home,
perhaps.
Or even /en/Home and /de/Home, as long as that allows for non-wiki pages
to neatly fall into the directory structure.

~sj~

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:38:25 +0200, Yann Forget <yann@forget-me.net> wrote:
> What structure was decided regarding languages?
> What will be the home page in French f.e.?
> How are done links to other languages?
>
> > En fait, Angel a été plus rapide que moi.
>
> Yes. ;o)
>
>
>
> Yann
> --
> http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence
> http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net
> http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclopédie libre
> http://www.forget-me.net/pro/ | Formations et services Linux
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


--
:-------.-.--------.--.--------.-.--------.--.--------[...]
+sj+

Sj wrote:
> I would love to see a simple "pick your language" portal, a la
> http://www.easyjet.com/ .

Ugh, flags. No thanks.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

Brion Vibber wrote:

> Sj wrote:
>
>> I would love to see a simple "pick your language" portal, a la
>> http://www.easyjet.com/ .
>
> Ugh, flags. No thanks.

Word.

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 17:44:13 -0700, Brion Vibber <brion@pobox.com> wrote:
> Sj wrote:
> > I would love to see a simple "pick your language" portal, a la
> > http://www.easyjet.com/ .
>
> Ugh, flags. No thanks.

That's not what I meant... and there's a lot more not to like about it
than flags (bright orange?? bordered buttons?). However, it doen't
include navbars in the portal, and manages to fit seven languages onto
a screen, unlike our own portals (all of which, btw, are EN-centric;
cf. http://wikisource.org/wiki/Main_Page and
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks_portal).

-- :-------.-.--------.--.--------.-.--------.--.--------[...]
+sj+

So much as I would like this site to be multilingual, I must say I
disagree with you in this case Sj. What you suggest is interested for
meta probably (but the flags), but The Foundation is american, and the
language used is english, so it is really okay that the portal page is
in english.

I essentially wish that other languages are available for most, if not
all pages. And I wish that every reader see this is available.

But for an american foundation, it makes sense to give priority to
english language.

Btw, I do not think that all pages will be necessarily translated :-) so
our solution should include that when a page is not available, then
there is a switch back to english (or a "we are sorry" message on top,
with the english version below).

ant

Sj a écrit:
> On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 17:44:13 -0700, Brion Vibber <brion@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>>Sj wrote:
>>
>>>I would love to see a simple "pick your language" portal, a la
>>>http://www.easyjet.com/ .
>>
>>Ugh, flags. No thanks.
>
>
> That's not what I meant... and there's a lot more not to like about it
> than flags (bright orange?? bordered buttons?). However, it doen't
> include navbars in the portal, and manages to fit seven languages onto
> a screen, unlike our own portals (all of which, btw, are EN-centric;
> cf. http://wikisource.org/wiki/Main_Page and
> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks_portal).
>
> -- :-------.-.--------.--.--------.-.--------.--.--------[...]
> +sj+

--- Anthere <anthere9@yahoo.com> wrote:
> So much as I would like this site to be multilingual, I must say I
> disagree with you in this case Sj. What you suggest is interested for
> meta probably (but the flags), but The Foundation is american, and the
> language used is english, so it is really okay that the portal page is
> in english.

Anthere, you of all people should know that the foundation is global. The fact
that it is incorporated in the United States is not really relevant. Jimbo and
I have recently exchanged emails about this very topic and we want to form a
U.S. chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation in part to demonstrate this
distinction.

Thus a language-selection portal would be appropriate and expected for the
foundation website. Not having it right away is simply due to the lack of a
technically and aesthetically good implementation. A side benefit of creating
such a portal would be adapting it for use at www.wikipedia.org and other www
wikimedia project domains.

-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)



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On Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:02 AM
Anthere <anthere9@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Daniel Mayer a écrit:
>> --- Anthere <anthere9@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> .... I must remember we have to
>>> contact the current owner. Would you perhaps do it Mav ? Tell us if
>>> you do or do not please.
>>
>>
>> I could, but they will likely want us to pay for the domain name. I
>> would prefer if somebody who speaks German fluently could conduct
>> those negotiations.
>
>
> Well, paying them for something they paid and could give us appears
> fair :-)
>
> OKay, is there a german person willing to contact the owner of
> http://www.wikimedia.com/ ?

I'll try to contact her.


-Arne (akl)

Anthere wrote:

> But for an american foundation, it makes sense to give priority to
> english language.

I'm disappointed! :)

On Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:45 AM
Arne Klempert <wikipedia@klempert.de> wrote:

>> OKay, is there a german person willing to contact the owner of
>> http://www.wikimedia.com/ ?
>
> I'll try to contact her.

I sent her a mail (see below). If she doesn't respond until friday I
will try to reach her by phone.

-Arne (akl)


On Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:20 PM
Arne Klempert [wikimedia] <akl@wikimedia.de> wrote:

> Sehr geehrte Frau Rohrer,
>
> ich wende mich an Sie, weil Sie die Domain wikimedia.com reserviert
> haben.
>
> Vielleicht kennen Sie die freie Internet-Enzyklopädie Wikipedia
> (wikipedia.org). Dieses Projekt hat es sich zum Ziel gesetzt,
> ausschließlich durch die Arbeit freiwilliger Autoren Enzyklopädien in
> allen Sprachen der Welt zu erstellen und ist seit dem Start im Jahre
> 2001 diesem Ziel schon sehr nahe gekommen: mittlerweile existieren
> fast eine Million Artikel in über 80 Sprachen, darunter über 300.000
> in englischer und über 100.000 in deutscher Sprache.
>
> Getragen wird dieses Projekt von der Wikimedia Foundation (eine
> gemeinnützige Stiftung mit Sitz in Florida, USA). Derzeit versuchen
> wir, die Außendarstellung von Wikimedia auszubauen, um besser um
> Spenden für den Betrieb der Wikipedia und ihrer Schwesterprojekte
> werben zu können. Denn das Angebot soll auch in Zukunft kostenfrei
> nutzbar sein und ohne Werbung finanziert werden.
>
> In diesem Zusammenhang hätten wir großes Interesse an der von Ihnen
> registrierten Domain. Wikimedia verfügt bereits über die Domain
> wikimedia.org. Leider ist die Endung .org aber für viele
> Internetnutzer sehr ungewohnt, und es kommt erfahrungsgemäß häufig
> vor, dass ungewohnte Endungen durch .com ersetzt werden.
>
> Zudem bauen wir derzeit eine internationale Organisationsstruktur auf
> (in Deutschland wurde bereits ein Verein gegründet:
> http://wikimedia.de - andere Länder folgen in Kürze), so dass auch aus
> diesem Grund eine Erreichbarkeit von Wikimedia unter allen verfügbaren
> Endungen besonders wichtig ist.
>
> Wir würden uns deshalb sehr freuen, wenn Sie bereit wären, uns die
> Domain wikimedia.com zu übertragen. Der Dank von unzähligen
> freiwilligen Mitarbeiter der verschiedenen von Wikimedia geförderten
> Projekte wäre Ihnen sicher. Sofern Sie dies wünschen, setze ich mich
> auch gerne dafür ein, dass Ihnen durch die Registrierung entstandene
> Kosten ersetzt werden.
>
> Für Rückfragen stehe ich jederzeit gerne zur Verfügung.
>
>
> Viele Grüße
> Arne Klempert
>
> * Freiwilliger Mitarbeiter bei Wikipedia
> * Zweiter Vorsitzender des Vereins Wikimedia Deutschland -
> Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens

Arne Klempert wrote:

> I sent her a mail (see below).

Wow. Very good writing, very professional tone, and very well-structured
paragraphing. I'm impressed!

Thanks for your effort!
Timwi

mav wrote:
> If the whole website will be HTML-enabled, then page protection alone will not
> be enough to ensure security...

If HTML only on certain namespaces, or for protected pages only isn't
possible, and we can't limit the editing to trusted people only, what
other solution do we have? Shall we retain the current system which
allows certain pages to be exported from HTML even though that
involves someone with shell access adding new pages like this? In
theory, it shouldn't be much of an issue. The number of pages that we
need HTML for are very limited - basically the fundraising page and
membership application form - so once they are created, it would no
longer need shell access. It would just need someone who knows HTML to
edit the site.
This isn't as good as having HTML on the wiki where you can see how it
renders straight away, or as having a mixture of HTML and wikitext
would be, but if the option simply isn't available, I don't think we
should delay creating the new site while we wait for it to be
possible. We have to work with the tools available now, and
unfortunately that does mean editing isn't as easy as it normally
might be.

Yann wrote:
>What structure was decided regarding languages?
>What will be the home page in French f.e.?
>How are done links to other languages?

I think it is going to be possible to use interlanguage links that
point to pages within the same site.

Sj wrote:
> I would love to see a simple "pick your language" portal, a la
> http://www.easyjet.com/ .

I would rather this directed to the right page based on the language
settings in your browser rather than forcing you to choose a language.

Angela.

Daniel Mayer wrote:

>Thus a language-selection portal would be appropriate and expected for the
>foundation website. Not having it right away is simply due to the lack of a
>technically and aesthetically good implementation. A side benefit of creating
>such a portal would be adapting it for use at www.wikipedia.org and other www
>wikimedia project domains.
>
>
Unless we can get everyone translated accurately pretty quickly, we
might want to still give English primacy as the language in which
Foundation business is conducted. This wouldn't be related to where the
Foundation is incorporated, just due to the fact that if we were to list
all languages that members understand at least somewhat, English would
almost certainly come out ahead by far, and it's the language most
commonly used for cross-borders business these days outside of Wikipedia
as well. (If at some point it turns out that everyone learns Esperanto,
I'd be happy to move to that; or if people learn Latin again, we could
move back to using Latin as the international language of
correspondence, but for now it seems English has more speakers than any
of the alternatives).

Of course, instant high-quality translations would be even better, but
especially for sensitive things we have to be careful that the
translations actually all capture the same nuances of meaning.

-Mark

Thanks a lot Arne :-)

ant

Arne Klempert a écrit:
> On Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:45 AM
> Arne Klempert <wikipedia@klempert.de> wrote:
>
>
>>>OKay, is there a german person willing to contact the owner of
>>>http://www.wikimedia.com/ ?
>>
>>I'll try to contact her.
>
>
> I sent her a mail (see below). If she doesn't respond until friday I
> will try to reach her by phone.
>
> -Arne (akl)
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:20 PM
> Arne Klempert [wikimedia] <akl@wikimedia.de> wrote:
>
>
>>Sehr geehrte Frau Rohrer,
>>
>>ich wende mich an Sie, weil Sie die Domain wikimedia.com reserviert
>>haben.
>>
>>Vielleicht kennen Sie die freie Internet-Enzyklopädie Wikipedia
>>(wikipedia.org). Dieses Projekt hat es sich zum Ziel gesetzt,
>>ausschließlich durch die Arbeit freiwilliger Autoren Enzyklopädien in
>>allen Sprachen der Welt zu erstellen und ist seit dem Start im Jahre
>>2001 diesem Ziel schon sehr nahe gekommen: mittlerweile existieren
>>fast eine Million Artikel in über 80 Sprachen, darunter über 300.000
>>in englischer und über 100.000 in deutscher Sprache.
>>
>>Getragen wird dieses Projekt von der Wikimedia Foundation (eine
>>gemeinnützige Stiftung mit Sitz in Florida, USA). Derzeit versuchen
>>wir, die Außendarstellung von Wikimedia auszubauen, um besser um
>>Spenden für den Betrieb der Wikipedia und ihrer Schwesterprojekte
>>werben zu können. Denn das Angebot soll auch in Zukunft kostenfrei
>>nutzbar sein und ohne Werbung finanziert werden.
>>
>>In diesem Zusammenhang hätten wir großes Interesse an der von Ihnen
>>registrierten Domain. Wikimedia verfügt bereits über die Domain
>>wikimedia.org. Leider ist die Endung .org aber für viele
>>Internetnutzer sehr ungewohnt, und es kommt erfahrungsgemäß häufig
>>vor, dass ungewohnte Endungen durch .com ersetzt werden.
>>
>>Zudem bauen wir derzeit eine internationale Organisationsstruktur auf
>>(in Deutschland wurde bereits ein Verein gegründet:
>>http://wikimedia.de - andere Länder folgen in Kürze), so dass auch aus
>>diesem Grund eine Erreichbarkeit von Wikimedia unter allen verfügbaren
>>Endungen besonders wichtig ist.
>>
>>Wir würden uns deshalb sehr freuen, wenn Sie bereit wären, uns die
>>Domain wikimedia.com zu übertragen. Der Dank von unzähligen
>>freiwilligen Mitarbeiter der verschiedenen von Wikimedia geförderten
>>Projekte wäre Ihnen sicher. Sofern Sie dies wünschen, setze ich mich
>>auch gerne dafür ein, dass Ihnen durch die Registrierung entstandene
>>Kosten ersetzt werden.
>>
>>Für Rückfragen stehe ich jederzeit gerne zur Verfügung.
>>
>>
>>Viele Grüße
>>Arne Klempert
>>
>>* Freiwilliger Mitarbeiter bei Wikipedia
>>* Zweiter Vorsitzender des Vereins Wikimedia Deutschland -
>> Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissen
>
> s

Angela_ a écrit:
> I would rather this directed to the right page based on the language
> settings in your browser rather than forcing you to choose a language.
>
> Angela.

Why do I have the feeling this is just a repeat of a two year old
discussion with The cunctator ?

Hmmm, why would I be necessary redirected to french language even if I
do not want to ?

ant

Delirium a écrit:
> Daniel Mayer wrote:
>
>> Thus a language-selection portal would be appropriate and expected for the
>> foundation website. Not having it right away is simply due to the lack
>> of a
>> technically and aesthetically good implementation. A side benefit of
>> creating
>> such a portal would be adapting it for use at www.wikipedia.org and
>> other www
>> wikimedia project domains.
>>
> Unless we can get everyone translated accurately pretty quickly, we
> might want to still give English primacy as the language in which
> Foundation business is conducted. This wouldn't be related to where the
> Foundation is incorporated, just due to the fact that if we were to list
> all languages that members understand at least somewhat, English would
> almost certainly come out ahead by far, and it's the language most
> commonly used for cross-borders business these days outside of Wikipedia
> as well. (If at some point it turns out that everyone learns Esperanto,
> I'd be happy to move to that; or if people learn Latin again, we could
> move back to using Latin as the international language of
> correspondence, but for now it seems English has more speakers than any
> of the alternatives).
>
> Of course, instant high-quality translations would be even better, but
> especially for sensitive things we have to be careful that the
> translations actually all capture the same nuances of meaning.
>
> -Mark

Nod. I agree with this. I prefer english, at least for now.

But I think that if some people have strong opinion one way or another,
I will be glad to settle on the leading opinion, portal or english per
default.