Mailing List Archive

Would you consider being on the Board?
With the talk on this list recently of jobs that need doing, I'm
interested to know whether there are many people who would be
interested in being a member of the Board if there were more seats
available. If that is something you'd consider, please let me know.

Note that I'm not saying this is a possibility right now, but it would
make planning easier if we had something more than guesswork of who
might be a candidate to go on.

Angela.
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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
I could be but am unable to travel (I care for my disabled brother).

Fred

On Jun 5, 2006, at 11:06 AM, Angela wrote:

> With the talk on this list recently of jobs that need doing, I'm
> interested to know whether there are many people who would be
> interested in being a member of the Board if there were more seats
> available. If that is something you'd consider, please let me know.
>
> Note that I'm not saying this is a possibility right now, but it would
> make planning easier if we had something more than guesswork of who
> might be a candidate to go on.
>
> Angela.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
On 6/5/06, Angela <beesley@gmail.com> wrote:
> With the talk on this list recently of jobs that need doing, I'm
> interested to know whether there are many people who would be
> interested in being a member of the Board if there were more seats
> available. If that is something you'd consider, please let me know.
>
> Note that I'm not saying this is a possibility right now, but it would
> make planning easier if we had something more than guesswork of who
> might be a candidate to go on.

I think before (or maybe along with) this call, you need to specify
the requirements of Board members. Some people may not understand
fully the time requirements, etc. but may be interested in being on
the Board. Although my guess is the kind of people we want on the
Board already know what this requires. So I guess you can probably
disregard this message.
--LV
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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
On 6/6/06, Lord Voldemort <lordbishopvoldemort@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think before (or maybe along with) this call, you need to specify
> the requirements of Board members. Some people may not understand
> fully the time requirements

It's hard to say what the time requirements will be since a lot of
what the Board previously did is being decentralised though
committees, or handed over to staff, such as the future CEO.

Angela.
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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
Sorry Fred, I think you misunderstood Angela's email. I believe this
was an entree intended for someone specifically, at least thats the
impression I got, and the email is just a mere polite pretext. Is this
not the case?

We've had past board elections, and based on the turnout it is clear
that there is no shortage of people who believe they are willing to
take the charge. So I can see no other reason to ask this question now
and here other than to begin discussion with a specific person without
creating an impression of private dealings.

Since Angela has been advocating a high degree of openness, why don't
we start with this request? When did random requests on troll
infested mailinglists become an appropriate way to select board
members?


On 6/5/06, Fred Bauder <fredbaud@ctelco.net> wrote:
> I could be but am unable to travel (I care for my disabled brother).
>
> Fred
>
> On Jun 5, 2006, at 11:06 AM, Angela wrote:
>
> > With the talk on this list recently of jobs that need doing, I'm
> > interested to know whether there are many people who would be
> > interested in being a member of the Board if there were more seats
> > available. If that is something you'd consider, please let me know.
> >
> > Note that I'm not saying this is a possibility right now, but it would
> > make planning easier if we had something more than guesswork of who
> > might be a candidate to go on.
> >
> > Angela.
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l@wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
There is no sense in this question. Who takes part in the board should have
quality of leadership because we are a community.

If a person has other relevant qualities but the community doesn't accept
he as leader, there is no other reason to have he in the board. The board
should be representative and to verify this condition there is only one way.

Regards

Ilario


>-- Messaggio originale --
>Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 03:06:25 +1000
>From: Angela <beesley@gmail.com>
>To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <foundation-l@wikimedia.org>
>Subject: [Foundation-l] Would you consider being on the Board?
>Reply-To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l@wikimedia.org>
>
>
>With the talk on this list recently of jobs that need doing, I'm
>interested to know whether there are many people who would be
>interested in being a member of the Board if there were more seats
>available. If that is something you'd consider, please let me know.
>
>Note that I'm not saying this is a possibility right now, but it would
>make planning easier if we had something more than guesswork of who
>might be a candidate to go on.
>
>Angela.
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
The community could accept only representative members voted with normal
procedure.

Because who has this mandate, he should have the possibility to complete
his job until the end of his own mandate without change of mind. Please,
accept the good sides of democracy and not those negative.

Regards

Ilario


>-- Messaggio originale --
>Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 03:06:25 +1000
>From: Angela <beesley@gmail.com>
>To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <foundation-l@wikimedia.org>
>Subject: [Foundation-l] Would you consider being on the Board?
>Reply-To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l@wikimedia.org>
>
>
>With the talk on this list recently of jobs that need doing, I'm
>interested to know whether there are many people who would be
>interested in being a member of the Board if there were more seats
>available. If that is something you'd consider, please let me know.
>
>Note that I'm not saying this is a possibility right now, but it would
>make planning easier if we had something more than guesswork of who
>might be a candidate to go on.
>
>Angela.

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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
I know I would stand a minimal chance if one at all, but the thought has
crossed my mind yes. Especially with the last elections (when I was in
good standing with everyone). But I figured that you and Anthere were
doing a great job so why run. If htere would have been a third seat back
then I would have run.

At this moment I am to "damaged" by my own doing to stand a chance. But
yes I would be interested.

Waerth/Walter


>With the talk on this list recently of jobs that need doing, I'm
>interested to know whether there are many people who would be
>interested in being a member of the Board if there were more seats
>available. If that is something you'd consider, please let me know.
>
>Note that I'm not saying this is a possibility right now, but it would
>make planning easier if we had something more than guesswork of who
>might be a candidate to go on.
>
>Angela.
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>
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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
Angela wrote:

>On 6/6/06, Lord Voldemort <lordbishopvoldemort@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I think before (or maybe along with) this call, you need to specify
>>the requirements of Board members. Some people may not understand
>>fully the time requirements
>>
>>
>
>It's hard to say what the time requirements will be since a lot of
>what the Board previously did is being decentralised though
>committees, or handed over to staff, such as the future CEO.
>
>
This is a semi-digression, but one thing that would also be nice to know
is how to get on those (new or old) committees, and what sorts of time
and expertise they require. I know I'd be willing to devote some time
to a committee if it aligned with my interests and expertise, but the
process is currently a bit murky to me.

As for the board, I don't think there will be a lack of interested
people. Both of the board elections we've had so far, if I recall
correctly, have had at least 8 or so people with significant approval
(though 6 of those had approval less significant than the two who were
actually elected to the board, of course ;-).

-Mark

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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
Angela wrote:
> With the talk on this list recently of jobs that need doing, I'm
> interested to know whether there are many people who would be
> interested in being a member of the Board if there were more seats
> available. If that is something you'd consider, please let me know.
>
> Note that I'm not saying this is a possibility right now, but it would
> make planning easier if we had something more than guesswork of who
> might be a candidate to go on.

And I would like to add that this might or might not involve going
through the election process, depending...
Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
valdelli@bluemail.ch wrote:
> The community could accept only representative members voted with normal
> procedure.

Of course.

But community vote is not the only way to get board members. We have
some very good board candidates who are not famous in the community and
who could bring to the table professional expertise that we greatly
need, but who would not put themselves through the troll wars of an
election.
Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
On 6/5/06, Delirium <delirium@hackish.org> wrote:

> This is a semi-digression, but one thing that would also be nice to know
> is how to get on those (new or old) committees, and what sorts of time
> and expertise they require. I know I'd be willing to devote some time
> to a committee if it aligned with my interests and expertise, but the
> process is currently a bit murky to me.
>


Hi Mark,
you can find all existing committees listed at:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_committees

Not all committees have their details or procedures outlined yet (I'm
not sure if some of them are operational), but the following committee
pages detail how their membership is managed:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special_projects_committee
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapters_committee/Rules_of_procedure
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications_committee

With regards to time, I can only speak for the committee that I'm
involved with (the special projects committee), and even still, it
really depends on the kind of work that you're interested in doing.
Some work is constant (ie evaluating and responding to requests for
collaboration, requests to use our content in some way etc.), some
work is occasional, like writing grant proposals, but, overall, it's
an hour or two per day along with a three hour or so meeting more or
less every two weeks. Again, different committees will have different
workloads, methods, so it's difficult to say exactly what and how much
is involved.

With regards to expertise, that's something that I'd like to get a
much better picture of, as we sometimes get proposals for things that
we are just not currently equipped to deal with, and it would be good
to know who in the community to turn to at times like those. I think I
can speak for the whole SPC that we'd love to hear ideas on how to
improve this process, get more people involved, and generally get
through our burgeoning workload that bit faster and more efficiently.

Cormac
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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
Jimmy Wales wrote:

>valdelli@bluemail.ch wrote:
>
>
>>The community could accept only representative members voted with normal
>>procedure.
>>
>>
>
>Of course.
>
>But community vote is not the only way to get board members. We have
>some very good board candidates who are not famous in the community and
>who could bring to the table professional expertise that we greatly
>need, but who would not put themselves through the troll wars of an
>election.
>
>
This sounds reasonable, although I think they're not entirely different
things, if we're speaking in an informal sense (which is really what
will dominate community-board relations more than the formal setup
will). It's possible, for example, that there are people who would
actually prevail in an election, but are deterred from running because
of the election process. If they were appointed, those people could be
said in some tea-leaf-reading sense to actually represent the
community. Then there are gradations---people who wouldn't actually win
an election, but who are generally respected and don't engender much
objection; then unknown people; and finally people who are actively
disliked by a large segment of the community.

We could try some variation on some of the consensus-style methods we
tend to use on the encyclopedia. For example, solicit nominations,
possibly in private, and then privately contact the people nominated to
ask if they'd accept a position if chosen. Then make a (public) list of
potential candidates, and solicit feedback on them, possibly
privately-expressed feedback so people don't have to publicly attack
anyone. Then appoint the people who have reasonably good consensus
support. Assuming the feedback is indeed expressed in private, and the
list is more than a handful of people, those not selected shouldn't
really be negatively impacted (not being selected for 2 slots out of a
list of, say, 15 isn't particularly bad).

This is a little trickier than the way we do it on articles, because to
avoid public flamewars and driving people off, much of it would have to
be done in private communications, and therefore the decision of what
constitutes consensus would have to be made by whoever reads those
emails. It could be the current board, or someone they designate.
Technically/formally, that would essentially be the board appointing new
members itself, but if you five agree to follow some rough community
consensus in making those appointments, I'm pretty sure you're not going
to actually lie to us and claim someone had consensus support when they
didn't, even if we have no way of verifying that.

Anyway that's a pretty off-the-top-of-my-head outline of how to design a
system that merges community consensus and sensitivity towards potential
members who aren't politicians, so I'm sure there are better ways of
doing it. I do think some sort of balancing of those goals is
necessary, though.

-Mark

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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> Sorry Fred, I think you misunderstood Angela's email. I believe this
> was an entree intended for someone specifically, at least thats the
> impression I got, and the email is just a mere polite pretext. Is this
> not the case?

Not at all! We are genuinely interested in assessing who from the
community would be available and interested.

> Since Angela has been advocating a high degree of openness, why don't
> we start with this request? When did random requests on troll
> infested mailinglists become an appropriate way to select board
> members?

This is foundation-l, where we discuss the foundation. The board has
expressed an interest in having more people involved on the board, and
would like a general indication of interest in serving, both from people
who are willing to go through the election process to be a "community
representative" in the formal sense, and also those who have
professional or other qualifications but who might not have the fame or
popularity within the community to go through that process.

--Jimbo
Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
Delirium wrote:
> Anyway that's a pretty off-the-top-of-my-head outline of how to design a
> system that merges community consensus and sensitivity towards potential
> members who aren't politicians, so I'm sure there are better ways of
> doing it. I do think some sort of balancing of those goals is
> necessary, though.

Yes, that is more or less what I would have said, Mark. I agree with
the general outlines, and share with you some uncertainty as to whether
the exact details you outlined are exactly right. But certainly,
something in that neighborhood.
Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
>
>But community vote is not the only way to get board members. We have
>some very good board candidates who are not famous in the community and
>who could bring to the table professional expertise that we greatly
>need, but who would not put themselves through the troll wars of an
>election.
>

Personally I (totally) agree, impersonally I disagree.

I've had experience on this situation when I was in Italy when a politic
government could not be done in the past and the nation have had a "technical"
government with very good ministers. They have made a very, very good job
but for a limited time because the representatives of politic didn't accept
to be replaced. What is the moral? There is a part in the community who can
move opinions and destroy the good job of "skilled" persons, if these technical
members don't have the ability to be a little more leader.

Regards

Ilario

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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
I know I would stand a minimal chance if one at all, but the thought has
crossed my mind yes. Especially with the last elections (when I was in
good standing with everyone). But I figured that you and Anthere were
doing a great job so why run. If htere would have been a third seat back
then I would have run.

At this moment I am to "damaged" by my own doing to stand a chance. But
yes I would be interested.

Waerth/Walter


>With the talk on this list recently of jobs that need doing, I'm
>interested to know whether there are many people who would be
>interested in being a member of the Board if there were more seats
>available. If that is something you'd consider, please let me know.
>
>Note that I'm not saying this is a possibility right now, but it would
>make planning easier if we had something more than guesswork of who
>might be a candidate to go on.
>
>Angela.
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>

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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
On Mon, June 5, 2006 20:20, Jimmy Wales wrote:
> We have
> some very good board candidates who are not famous in the community and
> who could bring to the table professional expertise that we greatly
> need, but who would not put themselves through the troll wars of an
> election.

To pick up on this point, it has become a truism that there are editors
who think this is a social democracy of some sort - that user interaction
is the main point of our projects - and those who are more aware that this
is about the creation of a freely-accessible encyclopedia to every person
on the planet*. But whilst volunteers like me and you may find the social
aspects to our activities here very enjoyable, that creation process is
what matters far more.

This means that whilst the projects themselves can be pretty much
self-organised and democratic, the foundation really cannot be. The
foundation has legal requirements upon it; it is a Company with its own
legal and financial identity and the management of that company has to
move to a more secure and 'professional' basis, which means that it isn't
a matter of 'support by the masses of registered users' but demonstrations
of experience, skills and knowledge that can be brought to improve the
prospects of reaching that target we all seek.

During the last five years of founding and growth Wikipedia has been
pretty much like one of those garage companies; the choice of people
getting involved as much for their connections with the founders as their
skills. Nothing at all wrong with that; some great companies have started
out like that. But they've all known that at some point some changes would
have to happen in order to reach the next level. We need to grow our
finances and our public relationships to match and support the plans of
our editors, and the bigger we get the more that really matters.

And this is the point that, it seems to me, we have recently arrived at.
We shouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater; the way the projects
work is mostly brilliant, and what isn't people are working on. But the
Foundation has to have a secure basis on which to proceed, so some
selectivity has be used if it is to continue to support the projects in
the way we all want and expect.

I would hope that anyone interested in joining the board - now or in the
future - would be someone already aware of the way we work well together
(mostly!), someone who has been 'around here' a while, but that isn't all
that can matter anymore.

Alison Wheeler



* Those in orbit are very welcome too!
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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
On 6/5/06, Alison Wheeler <wikimedia@alisonwheeler.com> wrote:
[snip]
> is about the creation of a freely-accessible encyclopedia to every person
> on the planet*.
[snip]

And when did the purpose of the project relax from being the creation
of perpetually [[Free content]] to merely the creation of content
which is accessible without a charge?

I'm picking a nit here, no doubt, but it's an important one... and I
don't want to see this thread cited in a later argument when Wikimedia
UK isn't around to clarify.
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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
On Mon, June 5, 2006 21:10, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> On 6/5/06, Alison Wheeler <wikimedia@alisonwheeler.com> wrote:
> [snip]
>> is about the creation of a freely-accessible encyclopedia to every
>> person
>> on the planet*.
> [snip]
>
> And when did the purpose of the project relax from being the creation
> of perpetually [[Free content]] to merely the creation of content
> which is accessible without a charge?
>
> I'm picking a nit here, no doubt, but it's an important one... and I
> don't want to see this thread cited in a later argument when Wikimedia
> UK isn't around to clarify.
>

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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> On 6/5/06, Alison Wheeler <wikimedia@alisonwheeler.com> wrote:
> [snip]
>> is about the creation of a freely-accessible encyclopedia to every person
>> on the planet*.
> [snip]
>
> And when did the purpose of the project relax from being the creation
> of perpetually [[Free content]] to merely the creation of content
> which is accessible without a charge?

Greg, please, calm down. I am quite certain that Alison means
"freely-accessible" as in "free as in speech, not free as in beer".

I say "freely accessible" a lot myself.

--Jimbo
Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
On 6/5/06, Angela <beesley@gmail.com> wrote:
> With the talk on this list recently of jobs that need doing, I'm
> interested to know whether there are many people who would be
> interested in being a member of the Board if there were more seats
> available. If that is something you'd consider, please let me know.
>
> Note that I'm not saying this is a possibility right now, but it would
> make planning easier if we had something more than guesswork of who
> might be a candidate to go on.

I find it far more interesting how many more volunteers for the Board
we got than we did for general volunteer help.....

I certainly am not volunteering for the Board. If asked, I would not
reject the request out of hand, but I have a busy life already and I
am not convinced that I can commit the time required for the position
without compromising my other obligations.

Kelly
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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
On 6/5/06, Jimmy Wales <jwales@wikia.com> wrote:
> Greg, please, calm down. I am quite certain that Alison means
> "freely-accessible" as in "free as in speech, not free as in beer".
>
> I say "freely accessible" a lot myself.

What the heck Jimbo?

I was asking for the benefit of the archives, and I said as much in
the text you so helpfully snipped from my post in your reply.
Although I was actually surprised at Alison's private response and
we're currently sorting out the confusion out-of-band....
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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
(just found that my answer lost itself!)

On Mon, June 5, 2006 21:10, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> On 6/5/06, Alison Wheeler <wikimedia@alisonwheeler.com> wrote:
> [snip]
>> is about the creation of a freely-accessible encyclopedia to every
>> person
>> on the planet*.
> [snip]
>
> And when did the purpose of the project relax from being the creation
> of perpetually [[Free content]] to merely the creation of content
> which is accessible without a charge?
>
> I'm picking a nit here, no doubt, but it's an important one... and I
> don't want to see this thread cited in a later argument when Wikimedia
> UK isn't around to clarify.

Firstly, it was a post by me and nothing to do with WMUK, but
"freely-accessible" content *is* "perpetually free content" so far as I
too am concerned and is not restricted just to charges. Freedom can refer
to platform, access, language, methods (eg not just print but braille and
spoken) not just cash and where it goes. Just as Wikimedia isn't now only
about Wikipedia - where we started. We have all the projects to improve
and expand.

The cash we need to support our range of projects though, is another thing
entirely. We need lots of that ... and to spend it wisely ...

Alison Wheeler


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Re: Would you consider being on the Board? [ In reply to ]
On 6/5/06, Angela <beesley@gmail.com> wrote:
> With the talk on this list recently of jobs that need doing, I'm
> interested to know whether there are many people who would be
> interested in being a member of the Board if there were more seats
> available.

I probably would throw my hat into the ring once more, especially now
that the Board is shifting towards strategic long-term thinking and
planning. I might also be interested in working within an ExecCom,
depending on its roles and responsibilities. However, this should all
be decided through open processes.

I think the more relevant discussion is the one about outsiders or
semi-insiders who have important qualifications and whom we might want
to invite to serve in a board role or an advisory one.

Erik
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