Mailing List Archive

You are not authorized to speak on behalf of the Foundation. That
should be clear.

-----Original Message-----
From: foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org
[mailto:foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Walter van
Kalken
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 5:11 PM
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
Subject: [Foundation-l] Contact in Thailand

This night at 23 hours I was called by a Thai organisation which is
doing in Thailand approximately the same as Kennisnet to talk with them
tomorrow about some ideas they have for co-operation with the
Foundation.

As I have been totally purged by the foundation of all my
"responsibilities" like presscontact for Asia and steward because I am
to critical of the way things go not because I ever abused them!
Although those are the rumours that are floating. I want to know if the
foundation has any "trust" in me to go talk with these people? It would
be nice to have an answer ASAP.

I am still disappointed in the way people get purged if they are to
critical even if they never abuse the responsabilities they have been
trusted with and the board never answers why one "clerk": Dannyisme can
take someone's stewardship away under the notion of temporarity and then
never has to respond in public to requests to restore it. Also I do not
understand why I was taken of the list of the presscontacts. I have
always defended wikimedia in radiointerviews and done quite a good job
with it, no one in the Dutch community can deny that. I stayed up late
for those things I never did say anything wrong and this is how you are
treated like you are a piece of garbage.

Waerth/Walter
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer under IRS Circular 230: Unless expressly stated otherwise in this transmission, nothing contained in this message is intended or written to be used, nor may it be relied upon or used, (1) by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer under the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended and/or (2) by any person to support the promotion or marketing of or to recommend any Federal tax transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed in this message.

If you desire a formal opinion on a particular tax matter for the purpose of avoiding the imposition of any penalties, we will discuss the additional Treasury requirements that must be met and whether it is possible to meet those requirements under the circumstances, as well as the anticipated time and additional fees involved.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Confidentiality Disclaimer: This e-mail message and any attachments are private communication sent by a law firm, Fowler White Boggs Banker P.A., and may contain confidential, legally privileged information meant solely for the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message, then delete the e-mail and any attachments from your system. Thank you.
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Patrick, Brad wrote:

>You are not authorized to speak on behalf of the Foundation. That
>should be clear.
>
>
Says ?????? Do I know you?

Waerth/Walter



>-----Original Message-----
>From: foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org
>[mailto:foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Walter van
>Kalken
>Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 5:11 PM
>To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>Subject: [Foundation-l] Contact in Thailand
>
>This night at 23 hours I was called by a Thai organisation which is
>doing in Thailand approximately the same as Kennisnet to talk with them
>tomorrow about some ideas they have for co-operation with the
>Foundation.
>
>As I have been totally purged by the foundation of all my
>"responsibilities" like presscontact for Asia and steward because I am
>to critical of the way things go not because I ever abused them!
>Although those are the rumours that are floating. I want to know if the
>foundation has any "trust" in me to go talk with these people? It would
>be nice to have an answer ASAP.
>
>I am still disappointed in the way people get purged if they are to
>critical even if they never abuse the responsabilities they have been
>trusted with and the board never answers why one "clerk": Dannyisme can
>take someone's stewardship away under the notion of temporarity and then
>never has to respond in public to requests to restore it. Also I do not
>understand why I was taken of the list of the presscontacts. I have
>always defended wikimedia in radiointerviews and done quite a good job
>with it, no one in the Dutch community can deny that. I stayed up late
>for those things I never did say anything wrong and this is how you are
>treated like you are a piece of garbage.
>
>Waerth/Walter
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Disclaimer under IRS Circular 230: Unless expressly stated otherwise in this transmission, nothing contained in this message is intended or written to be used, nor may it be relied upon or used, (1) by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer under the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended and/or (2) by any person to support the promotion or marketing of or to recommend any Federal tax transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed in this message.
>
>If you desire a formal opinion on a particular tax matter for the purpose of avoiding the imposition of any penalties, we will discuss the additional Treasury requirements that must be met and whether it is possible to meet those requirements under the circumstances, as well as the anticipated time and additional fees involved.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Confidentiality Disclaimer: This e-mail message and any attachments are private communication sent by a law firm, Fowler White Boggs Banker P.A., and may contain confidential, legally privileged information meant solely for the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message, then delete the e-mail and any attachments from your system. Thank you.
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

I'm the lawyer for the Foundation. I represent Wikimedia Foundation,
Inc. I answer to the Board.

You are *not* authorized to speak for the Foundation.

-----Original Message-----
From: foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org
[mailto:foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Walter van
Kalken
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 5:20 PM
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Contact in Thailand

Patrick, Brad wrote:

>You are not authorized to speak on behalf of the Foundation. That
>should be clear.
>
>
Says ?????? Do I know you?

Waerth/Walter



>-----Original Message-----
>From: foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org
>[mailto:foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Walter van
>Kalken
>Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 5:11 PM
>To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>Subject: [Foundation-l] Contact in Thailand
>
>This night at 23 hours I was called by a Thai organisation which is
>doing in Thailand approximately the same as Kennisnet to talk with them

>tomorrow about some ideas they have for co-operation with the
>Foundation.
>
>As I have been totally purged by the foundation of all my
>"responsibilities" like presscontact for Asia and steward because I am
>to critical of the way things go not because I ever abused them!
>Although those are the rumours that are floating. I want to know if the

>foundation has any "trust" in me to go talk with these people? It would

>be nice to have an answer ASAP.
>
>I am still disappointed in the way people get purged if they are to
>critical even if they never abuse the responsabilities they have been
>trusted with and the board never answers why one "clerk": Dannyisme can

>take someone's stewardship away under the notion of temporarity and
>then never has to respond in public to requests to restore it. Also I
>do not understand why I was taken of the list of the presscontacts. I
>have always defended wikimedia in radiointerviews and done quite a good

>job with it, no one in the Dutch community can deny that. I stayed up
>late for those things I never did say anything wrong and this is how
>you are treated like you are a piece of garbage.
>
>Waerth/Walter
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------------
>Disclaimer under IRS Circular 230: Unless expressly stated otherwise in
this transmission, nothing contained in this message is intended or
written to be used, nor may it be relied upon or used, (1) by any
taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed on
the taxpayer under the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended and/or
(2) by any person to support the promotion or marketing of or to
recommend any Federal tax transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed in this
message.
>
>If you desire a formal opinion on a particular tax matter for the
purpose of avoiding the imposition of any penalties, we will discuss the
additional Treasury requirements that must be met and whether it is
possible to meet those requirements under the circumstances, as well as
the anticipated time and additional fees involved.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------------
>Confidentiality Disclaimer: This e-mail message and any attachments are
private communication sent by a law firm, Fowler White Boggs Banker
P.A., and may contain confidential, legally privileged information meant
solely for the intended recipient. If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
Please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message, then
delete the e-mail and any attachments from your system. Thank you.
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Patrick, Brad wrote:

>I'm the lawyer for the Foundation. I represent Wikimedia Foundation,
>Inc. I answer to the Board.
>
>You are *not* authorized to speak for the Foundation.
>
>
Wow then who can speak to these people? It is obvious that you are one
of the people who put me on the garbagebelt in the foundation judging on
your tone.

Waerth/Walter


>-----Original Message-----
>From: foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org
>[mailto:foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Walter van
>Kalken
>Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 5:20 PM
>To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Contact in Thailand
>
>Patrick, Brad wrote:
>
>
>
>>You are not authorized to speak on behalf of the Foundation. That
>>should be clear.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Says ?????? Do I know you?
>
>Waerth/Walter
>
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org
>>[mailto:foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Walter van
>>Kalken
>>Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 5:11 PM
>>To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>>Subject: [Foundation-l] Contact in Thailand
>>
>>This night at 23 hours I was called by a Thai organisation which is
>>doing in Thailand approximately the same as Kennisnet to talk with them
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>tomorrow about some ideas they have for co-operation with the
>>Foundation.
>>
>>As I have been totally purged by the foundation of all my
>>"responsibilities" like presscontact for Asia and steward because I am
>>to critical of the way things go not because I ever abused them!
>>Although those are the rumours that are floating. I want to know if the
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>foundation has any "trust" in me to go talk with these people? It would
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>be nice to have an answer ASAP.
>>
>>I am still disappointed in the way people get purged if they are to
>>critical even if they never abuse the responsabilities they have been
>>trusted with and the board never answers why one "clerk": Dannyisme can
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>take someone's stewardship away under the notion of temporarity and
>>then never has to respond in public to requests to restore it. Also I
>>do not understand why I was taken of the list of the presscontacts. I
>>have always defended wikimedia in radiointerviews and done quite a good
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>job with it, no one in the Dutch community can deny that. I stayed up
>>late for those things I never did say anything wrong and this is how
>>you are treated like you are a piece of garbage.
>>
>>Waerth/Walter
>>_______________________________________________
>>foundation-l mailing list
>>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>------------------------------------
>>Disclaimer under IRS Circular 230: Unless expressly stated otherwise in
>>
>>
>this transmission, nothing contained in this message is intended or
>written to be used, nor may it be relied upon or used, (1) by any
>taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed on
>the taxpayer under the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended and/or
>(2) by any person to support the promotion or marketing of or to
>recommend any Federal tax transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed in this
>message.
>
>
>>If you desire a formal opinion on a particular tax matter for the
>>
>>
>purpose of avoiding the imposition of any penalties, we will discuss the
>additional Treasury requirements that must be met and whether it is
>possible to meet those requirements under the circumstances, as well as
>the anticipated time and additional fees involved.
>
>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>------------------------------------
>>Confidentiality Disclaimer: This e-mail message and any attachments are
>>
>>
>private communication sent by a law firm, Fowler White Boggs Banker
>P.A., and may contain confidential, legally privileged information meant
>solely for the intended recipient. If you are not the intended
>recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
>distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>Please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message, then
>delete the e-mail and any attachments from your system. Thank you.
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>foundation-l mailing list
>>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

No local press contact ever speaks on behalf of the Foundation. I think it
should be OK if Walter talks with that Thai organisation.

Johan Bos (Jcb)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick, Brad" <bpatrick@fowlerwhite.com>
To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <foundation-l@wikimedia.org>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Contact in Thailand


> You are not authorized to speak on behalf of the Foundation. That
> should be clear.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org
> [mailto:foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Walter van
> Kalken
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 5:11 PM
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> Subject: [Foundation-l] Contact in Thailand
>
> This night at 23 hours I was called by a Thai organisation which is
> doing in Thailand approximately the same as Kennisnet to talk with them
> tomorrow about some ideas they have for co-operation with the
> Foundation.
>
> As I have been totally purged by the foundation of all my
> "responsibilities" like presscontact for Asia and steward because I am
> to critical of the way things go not because I ever abused them!
> Although those are the rumours that are floating. I want to know if the
> foundation has any "trust" in me to go talk with these people? It would
> be nice to have an answer ASAP.
>
> I am still disappointed in the way people get purged if they are to
> critical even if they never abuse the responsabilities they have been
> trusted with and the board never answers why one "clerk": Dannyisme can
> take someone's stewardship away under the notion of temporarity and then
> never has to respond in public to requests to restore it. Also I do not
> understand why I was taken of the list of the presscontacts. I have
> always defended wikimedia in radiointerviews and done quite a good job
> with it, no one in the Dutch community can deny that. I stayed up late
> for those things I never did say anything wrong and this is how you are
> treated like you are a piece of garbage.
>
> Waerth/Walter
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Disclaimer under IRS Circular 230: Unless expressly stated otherwise in
> this transmission, nothing contained in this message is intended or
> written to be used, nor may it be relied upon or used, (1) by any taxpayer
> for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer
> under the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended and/or (2) by any
> person to support the promotion or marketing of or to recommend any
> Federal tax transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed in this message.
>
> If you desire a formal opinion on a particular tax matter for the purpose
> of avoiding the imposition of any penalties, we will discuss the
> additional Treasury requirements that must be met and whether it is
> possible to meet those requirements under the circumstances, as well as
> the anticipated time and additional fees involved.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Confidentiality Disclaimer: This e-mail message and any attachments are
> private communication sent by a law firm, Fowler White Boggs Banker P.A.,
> and may contain confidential, legally privileged information meant solely
> for the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
> hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of
> this communication is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender
> immediately by replying to this message, then delete the e-mail and any
> attachments from your system. Thank you.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Don't assume anything. If you are speaking as a person interested in
Wikipedia, great. I'm sure you have good things to say about Wikipedia
in Thailand. Good for you. All I am saying is that you do *not* have
the authority to speak on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org
[mailto:foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Walter van
Kalken
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 5:23 PM
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Contact in Thailand

Patrick, Brad wrote:

>I'm the lawyer for the Foundation. I represent Wikimedia Foundation,
>Inc. I answer to the Board.
>
>You are *not* authorized to speak for the Foundation.
>
>
Wow then who can speak to these people? It is obvious that you are one
of the people who put me on the garbagebelt in the foundation judging on
your tone.

Waerth/Walter


>-----Original Message-----
>From: foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org
>[mailto:foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Walter van
>Kalken
>Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 5:20 PM
>To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Contact in Thailand
>
>Patrick, Brad wrote:
>
>
>
>>You are not authorized to speak on behalf of the Foundation. That
>>should be clear.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Says ?????? Do I know you?
>
>Waerth/Walter
>
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org
>>[mailto:foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Walter van
>>Kalken
>>Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 5:11 PM
>>To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>>Subject: [Foundation-l] Contact in Thailand
>>
>>This night at 23 hours I was called by a Thai organisation which is
>>doing in Thailand approximately the same as Kennisnet to talk with
>>them
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>tomorrow about some ideas they have for co-operation with the
>>Foundation.
>>
>>As I have been totally purged by the foundation of all my
>>"responsibilities" like presscontact for Asia and steward because I am

>>to critical of the way things go not because I ever abused them!
>>Although those are the rumours that are floating. I want to know if
>>the
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>foundation has any "trust" in me to go talk with these people? It
>>would
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>be nice to have an answer ASAP.
>>
>>I am still disappointed in the way people get purged if they are to
>>critical even if they never abuse the responsabilities they have been
>>trusted with and the board never answers why one "clerk": Dannyisme
>>can
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>take someone's stewardship away under the notion of temporarity and
>>then never has to respond in public to requests to restore it. Also I
>>do not understand why I was taken of the list of the presscontacts. I
>>have always defended wikimedia in radiointerviews and done quite a
>>good
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>job with it, no one in the Dutch community can deny that. I stayed up
>>late for those things I never did say anything wrong and this is how
>>you are treated like you are a piece of garbage.
>>
>>Waerth/Walter
>>_______________________________________________
>>foundation-l mailing list
>>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-
>>------------------------------------
>>Disclaimer under IRS Circular 230: Unless expressly stated otherwise
>>in
>>
>>
>this transmission, nothing contained in this message is intended or
>written to be used, nor may it be relied upon or used, (1) by any
>taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed on
>the taxpayer under the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended and/or
>(2) by any person to support the promotion or marketing of or to
>recommend any Federal tax transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed in this

>message.
>
>
>>If you desire a formal opinion on a particular tax matter for the
>>
>>
>purpose of avoiding the imposition of any penalties, we will discuss
>the additional Treasury requirements that must be met and whether it is

>possible to meet those requirements under the circumstances, as well as

>the anticipated time and additional fees involved.
>
>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-
>>------------------------------------
>>Confidentiality Disclaimer: This e-mail message and any attachments
>>are
>>
>>
>private communication sent by a law firm, Fowler White Boggs Banker
>P.A., and may contain confidential, legally privileged information
>meant solely for the intended recipient. If you are not the intended
>recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
>distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>Please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message, then
>delete the e-mail and any attachments from your system. Thank you.
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>foundation-l mailing list
>>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

You are starting to speak like a repetative record. A bit more respect
in your tone could well get us somewhere. A person interested in
wikipedia. I have spend more fucking hours in the past 2,5 years for
wikimedia FOR FREE then you will ever do on your salary! Without people
like me contributing to these projects there wouldn't be any money to
pay for your cushy job earning topdollars over my back. So a bit more
respect and a more normal tone should be warranted. Also you are not on
the board as far as I know.

Waerth/Walter

>Don't assume anything. If you are speaking as a person interested in
>Wikipedia, great. I'm sure you have good things to say about Wikipedia
>in Thailand. Good for you. All I am saying is that you do *not* have
>the authority to speak on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org
>[mailto:foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Walter van
>Kalken
>Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 5:23 PM
>To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Contact in Thailand
>
>Patrick, Brad wrote:
>
>
>
>>I'm the lawyer for the Foundation. I represent Wikimedia Foundation,
>>Inc. I answer to the Board.
>>
>>You are *not* authorized to speak for the Foundation.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Wow then who can speak to these people? It is obvious that you are one
>of the people who put me on the garbagebelt in the foundation judging on
>your tone.
>
>Waerth/Walter
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org
>>[mailto:foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Walter van
>>Kalken
>>Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 5:20 PM
>>To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Contact in Thailand
>>
>>Patrick, Brad wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>You are not authorized to speak on behalf of the Foundation. That
>>>should be clear.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Says ?????? Do I know you?
>>
>>Waerth/Walter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org
>>>[mailto:foundation-l-bounces@wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Walter van
>>>Kalken
>>>Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 5:11 PM
>>>To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>>>Subject: [Foundation-l] Contact in Thailand
>>>
>>>This night at 23 hours I was called by a Thai organisation which is
>>>doing in Thailand approximately the same as Kennisnet to talk with
>>>them
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>tomorrow about some ideas they have for co-operation with the
>>>Foundation.
>>>
>>>As I have been totally purged by the foundation of all my
>>>"responsibilities" like presscontact for Asia and steward because I am
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>to critical of the way things go not because I ever abused them!
>>>Although those are the rumours that are floating. I want to know if
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>foundation has any "trust" in me to go talk with these people? It
>>>would
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>be nice to have an answer ASAP.
>>>
>>>I am still disappointed in the way people get purged if they are to
>>>critical even if they never abuse the responsabilities they have been
>>>trusted with and the board never answers why one "clerk": Dannyisme
>>>can
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>take someone's stewardship away under the notion of temporarity and
>>>then never has to respond in public to requests to restore it. Also I
>>>do not understand why I was taken of the list of the presscontacts. I
>>>have always defended wikimedia in radiointerviews and done quite a
>>>good
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>job with it, no one in the Dutch community can deny that. I stayed up
>>>late for those things I never did say anything wrong and this is how
>>>you are treated like you are a piece of garbage.
>>>
>>>Waerth/Walter
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>foundation-l mailing list
>>>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>-
>>>------------------------------------
>>>Disclaimer under IRS Circular 230: Unless expressly stated otherwise
>>>in
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>this transmission, nothing contained in this message is intended or
>>written to be used, nor may it be relied upon or used, (1) by any
>>taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed on
>>the taxpayer under the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended and/or
>>(2) by any person to support the promotion or marketing of or to
>>recommend any Federal tax transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed in this
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>message.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>If you desire a formal opinion on a particular tax matter for the
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>purpose of avoiding the imposition of any penalties, we will discuss
>>the additional Treasury requirements that must be met and whether it is
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>possible to meet those requirements under the circumstances, as well as
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>the anticipated time and additional fees involved.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>-
>>>------------------------------------
>>>Confidentiality Disclaimer: This e-mail message and any attachments
>>>are
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>private communication sent by a law firm, Fowler White Boggs Banker
>>P.A., and may contain confidential, legally privileged information
>>meant solely for the intended recipient. If you are not the intended
>>recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
>>distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>>Please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message, then
>>delete the e-mail and any attachments from your system. Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>foundation-l mailing list
>>>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>foundation-l mailing list
>>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>_______________________________________________
>>foundation-l mailing list
>>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Patrick, Brad wrote:
> I'm the lawyer for the Foundation. I represent Wikimedia Foundation,
> Inc. I answer to the Board.
>
> You are *not* authorized to speak for the Foundation.
>

Lawyer or ex-lawyer? I heard a rumour that your term had ended.

-- Tim Starling

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Hi Waerth

I think that is fine you go and contact these people. I'll be happy if
something gets out of it.

As for "speaking in the name of the Foundation"... in truth Walter,
board members should not themselves speak *in the name* of the Foundation.

It is not because any of us have an opinion than the others will have
the same opinion. Technically, none of us should do that.

Just present yourself as a long time wikipedian, that should be fine I
guess. You have to remember that most people outside understand
*nothing* of the way we are organised. As long as you do not make
believe others that you are allowed to make decisions in the name of the
Foundation, that's fine. Just make that clear.

Ant


Walter van Kalken wrote:
> This night at 23 hours I was called by a Thai organisation which is
> doing in Thailand approximately the same as Kennisnet to talk with them
> tomorrow about some ideas they have for co-operation with the Foundation.
>
> As I have been totally purged by the foundation of all my
> "responsibilities" like presscontact for Asia and steward because I am
> to critical of the way things go not because I ever abused them!
> Although those are the rumours that are floating. I want to know if the
> foundation has any "trust" in me to go talk with these people? It would
> be nice to have an answer ASAP.
>
> I am still disappointed in the way people get purged if they are to
> critical even if they never abuse the responsabilities they have been
> trusted with and the board never answers why one "clerk": Dannyisme can
> take someone's stewardship away under the notion of temporarity and then
> never has to respond in public to requests to restore it. Also I do not
> understand why I was taken of the list of the presscontacts. I have
> always defended wikimedia in radiointerviews and done quite a good job
> with it, no one in the Dutch community can deny that. I stayed up late
> for those things I never did say anything wrong and this is how you are
> treated like you are a piece of garbage.
>
> Waerth/Walter

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Tim Starling wrote:

> Patrick, Brad wrote:
>
>> I'm the lawyer for the Foundation. I represent Wikimedia Foundation,
>> Inc. I answer to the Board.
>>
>> You are *not* authorized to speak for the Foundation.
>
> Lawyer or ex-lawyer? I heard a rumour that your term had ended.

Brad is still part of the Wikimedia Foundation's legal team. However, he
has obligations to paying clients and cannot afford to devote all of his
time to pro bono work for Wikimedia. That seems to have been garbled
into the notion that he's gone altogether, which is not the case.

In this situation, he was simply reiterating a position on behalf of his
client, one that had already been communicated privately to Waerth. I
trust he will graciously receive Waerth's apology and we need not air
this matter further. If the prospects for collaboration with this
organization in Thailand seem promising, hopefully Waerth can get them
in touch with the Special Projects committee to work out the details.

--Michael Snow
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

>In this situation, he was simply reiterating a position on behalf of his
>client, one that had already been communicated privately to Waerth.
>
Really ???? Can someone resend that private communication that I should
have received than. I for one have never received this. Unless you mean
a mail earlier today by Brad ..... I didn't read it that way. Anyway the
fact that people do not *assume good faith* while I have done these kind
of things before are really disappointing me. I have always taken great
care. Start reading Dutch and listen to my radiointerviews and read my
newspaperintervieuws than come back and make assumptions. Just because
they haven't been done in the Anglosaxon speech, and I am not a native
speaker of the imperialistic lingo doesn't mean that I am some backward
hick who needs a nanny on every step that he takes.

> I trust he will graciously receive Waerth's apology and we need not air
>this matter further. If the prospects for collaboration with this
>organization in Thailand seem promising, hopefully Waerth can get them
>in touch with the Special Projects committee to work out the details.
>
Delivering them to a selfappointed wikibureaucracy not recognized by the
community? We will see, in Asia it is all about face, if I have the
slightest feeling I could loose face with contacts that I have been
working on for a long time if someone not familiair with Thai culture
and Thai sensitivities takes over I will rather save my own face.

Learn to have faith all selfappointed bureaucrats. Just because I do no
life in Europe/North America doesn't mean I am not worthy.

Your pile of trash,
Waerth/Walter

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Patrick, Brad wrote:
> Don't assume anything. If you are speaking as a person interested in
> Wikipedia, great. I'm sure you have good things to say about Wikipedia
> in Thailand. Good for you. All I am saying is that you do *not* have
> the authority to speak on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>

I'm not sure if you're new here or what, but this isn't how we do things
at the Wikimedia Foundation. We discuss politely, if sometimes
heatedly, on the mailing list, not brusquely and dictatorially.

Waerth asked if the Foundation had confidence in him to discuss with
this organization; not if he legally has the authority to enter into
commitments on behalf of the foundation, which is quite a different
matter. In short, his question did not call for a legal opinion, and
offering one unsolicited was unhelpful, misrepresenting the matter, and
impolite.

-Mark

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

On 5/19/06, Walter van Kalken <walter@vankalken.net> wrote:
> You are starting to speak like a repetative record. A bit more respect
> in your tone could well get us somewhere. A person interested in
> wikipedia. I have spend more fucking hours in the past 2,5 years for
> wikimedia FOR FREE then you will ever do on your salary! Without people
> like me contributing to these projects there wouldn't be any money to
> pay for your cushy job earning topdollars over my back. So a bit more
> respect and a more normal tone should be warranted. Also you are not on
> the board as far as I know.
>
> Waerth/Walter


Walter,

you're misinterpreting what Brad said - he simply pointed out that
you're not (legally) authorised to speak for the foundation - which is
true. The fact that you're interested in pursuing a collaboration is
great - he even said this (read it again - it's below).

I'll also repeat what Michael pointed out in that Brad has done *huge*
amounts of work for the foundation, behind the scenes, *for free*.
Really, huge. He really believes in our ideals - and he knows how the
community works. But the fact that not many people know him possibly
isn't such a surprise :-)

If this collaboration goes well, you're welcome to pass it on to the
Special projects committee
<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special_projects_committee> - we're
here to help out in any way.

All the best,

Cormac (Cormaggio)



Brad Patrick wrote:

>
> >Don't assume anything. If you are speaking as a person interested in
> >Wikipedia, great. I'm sure you have good things to say about Wikipedia
> >in Thailand. Good for you. All I am saying is that you do *not* have
> >the authority to speak on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> >
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Cormac Lawler wrote:
> On 5/19/06, Walter van Kalken <walter@vankalken.net> wrote:
>
>>You are starting to speak like a repetative record. A bit more respect
>>in your tone could well get us somewhere. A person interested in
>>wikipedia. I have spend more fucking hours in the past 2,5 years for
>>wikimedia FOR FREE then you will ever do on your salary! Without people
>>like me contributing to these projects there wouldn't be any money to
>>pay for your cushy job earning topdollars over my back. So a bit more
>>respect and a more normal tone should be warranted. Also you are not on
>>the board as far as I know.
>>
>>Waerth/Walter
>
>
>
> Walter,
>
> you're misinterpreting what Brad said - he simply pointed out that
> you're not (legally) authorised to speak for the foundation - which is
> true. The fact that you're interested in pursuing a collaboration is
> great - he even said this (read it again - it's below).
>
> I'll also repeat what Michael pointed out in that Brad has done *huge*
> amounts of work for the foundation, behind the scenes, *for free*.
> Really, huge. He really believes in our ideals - and he knows how the
> community works. But the fact that not many people know him possibly
> isn't such a surprise :-)
>
> If this collaboration goes well, you're welcome to pass it on to the
> Special projects committee
> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special_projects_committee> - we're
> here to help out in any way.
>
> All the best,
>
> Cormac (Cormaggio)

hmmm, tiny correction Cormac (I know it is just an issue of phrasing it
more clearly). If the collaboration goes well, Waerth should not *pass*
it on the committee. He should goes on working on this collaboration and
consider the committee as his contact (rather than the board's). The
committee is not meant to take over what editors are trying to organise.
It is meant to "second/replace" the board in helping the collaboration
to become official. Cormac knows this very well, but I think the words
used may be confusing :-)

ant

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Waerth wrote:
> I am still disappointed in the way people get purged if they are to
> critical even if they never abuse the responsabilities

You have hardly been purged. You are welcome to contribute in the
projects, and it has always been my hope that your issues with various
things can be resolved in a positive manner!

Your stewardship and status as press contact were both revoked after you
threatened to abuse both of them. When you were desysopped in the Dutch
community following a community process, you threatened to use your
steward status to make yourself a sysop again, as I understand it. When
you were unhappy with something about the formation of the dutch
chapter, rather than coming to me or the board with a complaint, you
threatened to go to the press with your complaints.

--Jimbo

Anthere wrote:

>Cormac Lawler wrote:
>
>
>>On 5/19/06, Walter van Kalken <walter@vankalken.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>You are starting to speak like a repetative record. A bit more respect
>>>in your tone could well get us somewhere. A person interested in
>>>wikipedia. I have spend more fucking hours in the past 2,5 years for
>>>wikimedia FOR FREE then you will ever do on your salary! Without people
>>>like me contributing to these projects there wouldn't be any money to
>>>pay for your cushy job earning topdollars over my back. So a bit more
>>>respect and a more normal tone should be warranted. Also you are not on
>>>the board as far as I know.
>>>
>>>Waerth/Walter
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Walter,
>>
>>you're misinterpreting what Brad said - he simply pointed out that
>>you're not (legally) authorised to speak for the foundation - which is
>>true. The fact that you're interested in pursuing a collaboration is
>>great - he even said this (read it again - it's below).
>>
>>I'll also repeat what Michael pointed out in that Brad has done *huge*
>>amounts of work for the foundation, behind the scenes, *for free*.
>>Really, huge. He really believes in our ideals - and he knows how the
>>community works. But the fact that not many people know him possibly
>>isn't such a surprise :-)
>>
>>If this collaboration goes well, you're welcome to pass it on to the
>>Special projects committee
>><http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special_projects_committee> - we're
>>here to help out in any way.
>>
>>All the best,
>>
>>Cormac (Cormaggio)
>>
>>
>
>hmmm, tiny correction Cormac (I know it is just an issue of phrasing it
>more clearly). If the collaboration goes well, Waerth should not *pass*
>it on the committee. He should goes on working on this collaboration and
>consider the committee as his contact (rather than the board's). The
>committee is not meant to take over what editors are trying to organise.
>It is meant to "second/replace" the board in helping the collaboration
>to become official. Cormac knows this very well, but I think the words
>used may be confusing :-)
>
>ant
>
>
Thank you Anthere for this. This does give a person a smile :) I had a
quick introduction today with 2 other persons from the Thai side and I
basically had to tell all over again what wikimedia is and is
doing/tries to accomplish (sometimes things go very slow in this part of
the world). Good thing is I had a free lunch :) And tomorrow we will
speak again, again around lunchtime. The young people are convinced
(were already convinced before meeting me) that wikimedia is the
solution for them. Now we need to convince the older decision people.
And we need to convince them in such a way that it looks like the idea
is theirs! And not from some foreigner and their juniors. This is a
difficult process and if they loose face because it looks like the
foreigner and/or their juniors came up with it ........ well then forget
about it. This is why I am non to thrilled if people from other parts of
the world not knowing the local culture (which is even less than the
tiny bit I understand of Thai culture) announce they want to take over.
No pun intended, but this ain't the States nor Europe. Things work
differently here. And like I said I cannot afford loosing my own face
amongst these people. I am but a foreigner here. My next re-entry in
Thailand I can be refused on whatever grounds people like and no lawyer
who would get me out of that mess.

Waerth/Walter


_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Delirium wrote:

> Patrick, Brad wrote:
>
>> Don't assume anything. If you are speaking as a person interested in
>> Wikipedia, great. I'm sure you have good things to say about Wikipedia
>> in Thailand. Good for you. All I am saying is that you do *not* have
>> the authority to speak on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>
> I'm not sure if you're new here or what, but this isn't how we do
> things at the Wikimedia Foundation. We discuss politely, if sometimes
> heatedly, on the mailing list, not brusquely and dictatorially.
>
> Waerth asked if the Foundation had confidence in him to discuss with
> this organization; not if he legally has the authority to enter into
> commitments on behalf of the foundation, which is quite a different
> matter. In short, his question did not call for a legal opinion, and
> offering one unsolicited was unhelpful, misrepresenting the matter,
> and impolite.

This criticism is totally misplaced. Note that Brad addressed whether
Waerth could *speak* on behalf of the Foundation, responding directly to
Waerth's question. The issue is not limited to whether Waerth is
authorized to act as an agent of the Foundation to enter into agreements.

Lawyers are not restricted to giving legal opinions and nothing else,
sometimes they need to represent their clients in communicating with
third parties, as Brad did here. Brad's intervention was helpful
(because it got across his client's position), misrepresented nothing,
and if it wasn't as polite as suits your tastes, it's because more
polite ways of communicating this hadn't yet gotten the message across.

--Michael Snow
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Michael Snow wrote:

>Delirium wrote:
>
>
>
>>Patrick, Brad wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Don't assume anything. If you are speaking as a person interested in
>>>Wikipedia, great. I'm sure you have good things to say about Wikipedia
>>>in Thailand. Good for you. All I am saying is that you do *not* have
>>>the authority to speak on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>I'm not sure if you're new here or what, but this isn't how we do
>>things at the Wikimedia Foundation. We discuss politely, if sometimes
>>heatedly, on the mailing list, not brusquely and dictatorially.
>>
>>Waerth asked if the Foundation had confidence in him to discuss with
>>this organization; not if he legally has the authority to enter into
>>commitments on behalf of the foundation, which is quite a different
>>matter. In short, his question did not call for a legal opinion, and
>>offering one unsolicited was unhelpful, misrepresenting the matter,
>>and impolite.
>>
>>
>
>This criticism is totally misplaced. Note that Brad addressed whether
>Waerth could *speak* on behalf of the Foundation, responding directly to
>Waerth's question. The issue is not limited to whether Waerth is
>authorized to act as an agent of the Foundation to enter into agreements.
>
>
>
Lawyers are not restricted to giving legal opinions and nothing else,

>sometimes they need to represent their clients in communicating with
>third parties, as Brad did here. Brad's intervention was helpful
>(because it got across his client's position), misrepresented nothing,
>and if it wasn't as polite as suits your tastes, it's because more
>polite ways of communicating this hadn't yet gotten the message across.
>
>
>
You do not know when to stop insulting do you?? Third party. Are you
deliberately trying to hurt someone and chase him away? As far as I knew
we had lawyers to talk with non wikimedians. Since when does a
wikimedian have to speak with the lawyer before he gets to speak with
the board. Fuck this.

Waerth/Walter
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Jimmy Wales wrote:

>Waerth wrote:
>
>
>>I am still disappointed in the way people get purged if they are to
>>critical even if they never abuse the responsabilities
>>
>>
>
>You have hardly been purged. You are welcome to contribute in the
>projects, and it has always been my hope that your issues with various
>things can be resolved in a positive manner!
>
>Your stewardship and status as press contact were both revoked after you
>threatened to abuse both of them. When you were desysopped in the Dutch
>community following a community process, you threatened to use your
>steward status to make yourself a sysop again, as I understand it.
>
Nope when I was blocked for a week without any good reason I said that,
I wasn't a sysop anymore already for a few weeks, as I was desysopped by
a 28% ''Majority'' (meant ironically 72% supported me) But it was merely
said in anger. Nothing more. I didn't do it. So I didn't abuse anything.

> When
>you were unhappy with something about the formation of the dutch
>chapter, rather than coming to me or the board with a complaint, you
>threatened to go to the press with your complaints.
>
Because when things were discussed here on these mailinglists I didn't
get any reactions and people ignored things, other Dutch people also
mentioned it on this very same list. RonaldB the main person responsible
for this mess who has given himself leadershipfunctions in both
organizations that were founded (why 2 and not 1 as in all other
countries .... I know what was said secretly on private channels when I
still was in favour with people, but people will deny it when I give the
reasons out loud) and who registered both organisation near his own
hometown instead of a central location in the Netherlands as was asked
for, still refuses to answer all questions asked to him by Dutch editors
about why and how. If he answers it is like air, whole skies of text,
but so thin that it is meaningless, no straight answers. So when we did
not get any answers about a Dutch chapter and RonaldB seems to want to
use the name of wikimedia for projects nothing to do with wikimedia. As
RonaldB put it: collect money and put it in projects which have nothing
to do with current wikimediaprojects! Then I have serious doubts yes,
extremely serious doubts, because that means (selfish mode) taking my
work flaunting with it for the promotion and financing of non-relevant
things this is even harder for me to swallow as I am once again facing
quiet months in my work and I haven't paid rent for 2 months, after
three months I get thrown out. Untill this day RonaldB has answered NILL
questions, although Oscar has answered some and Delphine gave me certain
guarantees. I am still astonished that RonaldB gets rewarded for staying
silent and not answering questions. A desysop procedure was started
against him in which many people raised doubt about what he did and
asked him to start answering! But they didn't feel it was enough to
desysop him for. Still a majority did fill in in their comments they
want RonaldB to open up, and he never responded. I still want clarity
and certainly from someone who has taken a mandate given to him and a
group of people by a group of editors to form a Dutch chapter and they
came back with something we never asked for and now that it is a faith
accompli refuses any form of communication!

You are right this pisses/pissed me of. It still does. But just to make
things clear I would have never ever walked to the press as a
representative of the foundation. I would have gone as a private person.
Thinking that I would have done else is presuming. As a
pressrepresentative just as as a steward I have a total clean sheet!
Check my interviews both radio and paper. By taking both of them away
from me. People assumed. I was tried without a lawyer without even a
crime that had happened. I was never asked anything by you. You assumed.
This has hurt me both inside and outside, as people have presumed I have
committed wrongs I have never committed. And I had to listen to that
shit and defend myself.

Also a private chat with Danny on IRC hasn't done any good as to my
faith in the board as I was let known I am considered to be one of the 2
idiots from nl.wikipedia. So there goes assuming good faith. I am still
awaiting apologies for that! Certainly since it came from the same
person that took my stewardship. Promised it would be temporarily,
promised it would be discussed. And nothing happened! Nothing!

I am happy you have finally responded in the open so I can finally
answer in the open.

pissed off, and disillusioned
Waerth/Walter
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Michael Snow wrote:
> Delirium wrote:
>
>
>> Patrick, Brad wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Don't assume anything. If you are speaking as a person interested in
>>> Wikipedia, great. I'm sure you have good things to say about Wikipedia
>>> in Thailand. Good for you. All I am saying is that you do *not* have
>>> the authority to speak on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>>>
>> I'm not sure if you're new here or what, but this isn't how we do
>> things at the Wikimedia Foundation. We discuss politely, if sometimes
>> heatedly, on the mailing list, not brusquely and dictatorially.
>>
>> Waerth asked if the Foundation had confidence in him to discuss with
>> this organization; not if he legally has the authority to enter into
>> commitments on behalf of the foundation, which is quite a different
>> matter. In short, his question did not call for a legal opinion, and
>> offering one unsolicited was unhelpful, misrepresenting the matter,
>> and impolite.
>>
>
> This criticism is totally misplaced. Note that Brad addressed whether
> Waerth could *speak* on behalf of the Foundation, responding directly to
> Waerth's question. The issue is not limited to whether Waerth is
> authorized to act as an agent of the Foundation to enter into agreements.
>
> Lawyers are not restricted to giving legal opinions and nothing else,
> sometimes they need to represent their clients in communicating with
> third parties, as Brad did here. Brad's intervention was helpful
> (because it got across his client's position), misrepresented nothing,
> and if it wasn't as polite as suits your tastes, it's because more
> polite ways of communicating this hadn't yet gotten the message across.
>

It *did* misrepresent the matter, and does not appear to have accurately
represented his client's position either, as the more helpful and
accurate reply by Anthere (an *actual* board member) was quite different
from Brad's.

-- Unhelpful reply (Brad): "You do *not* have the authority to speak on
behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.".

-- Helpful reply (Anthere): "I think that is fine you go and contact
these people. I'll be happy if something gets out of it. ... As long as
you do not make believe others that you are allowed to make decisions in
the name of the Foundation, that's fine. Just make that clear."

So the actual position of at least one board member seems to be,
contrary to what you claim, that the issue *is* limited to whether
Waerth is authorized to act as an agent of the Foundation (he isn't, and
doesn't believe himself to be), but that it's perfectly fine if he
contacts third parties for collaboration with Wikimedia as long as he
doesn't represent himself as being an agent of the Foundation. Which
seems a lot more sensible and helpful as a reply to me.

-Mark

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Dear Jimbo,

You should know one thing. I am a native Dutch speaker, so I could perfectly
follow all the communication around the troubles with Waerth. I also read
some of the communications towards you and I concluded that you have been
misinformed a bit. The internation messages which I read did totally not
represent the matter in a righteous way. Let me state one thing quite clear:

¡Waerth would never have abused his stewardship or his being a press
contact!

Your conclusions are at least partly based on false information and you have
been impeded too much by your disability of understanding Dutch.

Regards,

Johan Bos (Jcb)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jimmy Wales" <jwales@wikia.com>
To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <foundation-l@wikimedia.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Contact in Thailand


> Waerth wrote:
>> I am still disappointed in the way people get purged if they are to
>> critical even if they never abuse the responsabilities
>
> You have hardly been purged. You are welcome to contribute in the
> projects, and it has always been my hope that your issues with various
> things can be resolved in a positive manner!
>
> Your stewardship and status as press contact were both revoked after you
> threatened to abuse both of them. When you were desysopped in the Dutch
> community following a community process, you threatened to use your
> steward status to make yourself a sysop again, as I understand it. When
> you were unhappy with something about the formation of the dutch
> chapter, rather than coming to me or the board with a complaint, you
> threatened to go to the press with your complaints.
>
> --Jimbo
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

foundation-l-request@wikimedia.org wrote:

> Michael Snow wrote:
>
>> Delirium wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick, Brad wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't assume anything. If you are speaking as a person interested in
>>>> Wikipedia, great. I'm sure you have good things to say about
>>>> Wikipedia
>>>> in Thailand. Good for you. All I am saying is that you do *not* have
>>>> the authority to speak on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation,
>>>> Inc.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure if you're new here or what, but this isn't how we do
>>> things at the Wikimedia Foundation. We discuss politely, if
>>> sometimes heatedly, on the mailing list, not brusquely and
>>> dictatorially.
>>>
>>> Waerth asked if the Foundation had confidence in him to discuss with
>>> this organization; not if he legally has the authority to enter into
>>> commitments on behalf of the foundation, which is quite a different
>>> matter. In short, his question did not call for a legal opinion,
>>> and offering one unsolicited was unhelpful, misrepresenting the
>>> matter, and impolite.
>>
>> This criticism is totally misplaced. Note that Brad addressed whether
>> Waerth could *speak* on behalf of the Foundation, responding directly
>> to Waerth's question. The issue is not limited to whether Waerth is
>> authorized to act as an agent of the Foundation to enter into
>> agreements.
>>
>> Lawyers are not restricted to giving legal opinions and nothing else,
>> sometimes they need to represent their clients in communicating with
>> third parties, as Brad did here. Brad's intervention was helpful
>> (because it got across his client's position), misrepresented
>> nothing, and if it wasn't as polite as suits your tastes, it's
>> because more polite ways of communicating this hadn't yet gotten the
>> message across.
>
> It *did* misrepresent the matter, and does not appear to have
> accurately represented his client's position either, as the more
> helpful and accurate reply by Anthere (an *actual* board member) was
> quite different from Brad's.
>
> -- Unhelpful reply (Brad): "You do *not* have the authority to speak
> on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.".
>
> -- Helpful reply (Anthere): "I think that is fine you go and contact
> these people. I'll be happy if something gets out of it. ... As long
> as you do not make believe others that you are allowed to make
> decisions in the name of the Foundation, that's fine. Just make that
> clear."
>
> So the actual position of at least one board member seems to be,
> contrary to what you claim, that the issue *is* limited to whether
> Waerth is authorized to act as an agent of the Foundation (he isn't,
> and doesn't believe himself to be), but that it's perfectly fine if he
> contacts third parties for collaboration with Wikimedia as long as he
> doesn't represent himself as being an agent of the Foundation. Which
> seems a lot more sensible and helpful as a reply to me.

I suppose it's convenient for you to overlook another part of Anthere's
reply: "in truth Walter, board members should not themselves speak *in
the name* of the Foundation." In the end, I see no particular
contradiction between Anthere's statement and Brad's. If they want to
play good-cop/bad-cop, that's their business, but Brad did not
misrepresent anything. He was seeing to it that the Foundation's
previously communicated position was clear, just the sort of thing an
attorney should be doing for a client.

--Michael Snow
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

On 5/20/06, Anthere <Anthere9@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Cormac Lawler wrote:
> > On 5/19/06, Walter van Kalken <walter@vankalken.net> wrote:
> >
> >>You are starting to speak like a repetative record. A bit more respect
> >>in your tone could well get us somewhere. A person interested in
> >>wikipedia. I have spend more fucking hours in the past 2,5 years for
> >>wikimedia FOR FREE then you will ever do on your salary! Without people
> >>like me contributing to these projects there wouldn't be any money to
> >>pay for your cushy job earning topdollars over my back. So a bit more
> >>respect and a more normal tone should be warranted. Also you are not on
> >>the board as far as I know.
> >>
> >>Waerth/Walter
> >
> >
> >
> > Walter,
> >
> > you're misinterpreting what Brad said - he simply pointed out that
> > you're not (legally) authorised to speak for the foundation - which is
> > true. The fact that you're interested in pursuing a collaboration is
> > great - he even said this (read it again - it's below).
> >
> > I'll also repeat what Michael pointed out in that Brad has done *huge*
> > amounts of work for the foundation, behind the scenes, *for free*.
> > Really, huge. He really believes in our ideals - and he knows how the
> > community works. But the fact that not many people know him possibly
> > isn't such a surprise :-)
> >
> > If this collaboration goes well, you're welcome to pass it on to the
> > Special projects committee
> > <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special_projects_committee> - we're
> > here to help out in any way.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Cormac (Cormaggio)
>
> hmmm, tiny correction Cormac (I know it is just an issue of phrasing it
> more clearly). If the collaboration goes well, Waerth should not *pass*
> it on the committee. He should goes on working on this collaboration and
> consider the committee as his contact (rather than the board's). The
> committee is not meant to take over what editors are trying to organise.
> It is meant to "second/replace" the board in helping the collaboration
> to become official. Cormac knows this very well, but I think the words
> used may be confusing :-)
>
> ant


Yes, very well said Anthere. That is indeed what I meant - even though
that is not what I said :-)

Cormac
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Johan Bos wrote:
> Dear Jimbo,
>
> You should know one thing. I am a native Dutch speaker, so I could perfectly
> follow all the communication around the troubles with Waerth. I also read
> some of the communications towards you and I concluded that you have been
> misinformed a bit. The internation messages which I read did totally not
> represent the matter in a righteous way. Let me state one thing quite clear:
>
> ¡Waerth would never have abused his stewardship or his being a press
> contact!

"Would not"? or "did not threaten to"? Because if you just mean the
first, then I'm afraid I have to say the actions taken in removing
Waerth as steward and press contact were 100% correct.

--sannse
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l