Ray Saintonge wrote:
>Effective resistance is more a matter of opportunity than
>premeditation. If I have not been served with a gag order I can't
>resist it. I am not one of those who would avoid trouble at any price,
>but manipulating circumstances for the sole purpose of spurring the
>patriotism police into action is still trolling.
>
>
>
Opportunity for martyrdom perhaps. Pretty useless unless some
premediation goes into post execution or incarceration publication.
Unless one buys into prayer as a universal method communications. I
understand the Ayotollah's are not counting on prayer. I have seen it
alleged that authentic suicide martyrs are being signed up as terrorist
retalitory smart bots in inflict maximum reprisal in the event of a
surprise, announced, authorised, or otherwise engaged or stealthy or
alleged official and/or unofficial or plausibly denied U.S. policy
enforcement action in preemptive defense of the god fearing peoples of
the free world against dirty or real atomic bombs.
Clearly discussion of this responsibly takes careful preplanning if one
wishes to avoid the consequence (personally) of one's actions.
Consider that terrorist maniac who assaulted an entire campus of
diligent students looking both ways before crossing the street or lying
down in the grass at the memorial union with an American Gas Guzzler and
manage to injure an entire nine people before calling 911 to report the
hit and run self alleged terrorist campaign.
When he gets done fullfilling his responsibilities to society for that
premedicated attempt at mass murder maybe someone should hire him as a
driver's ed teacher or a NASCAR driver. Many U.S. drivers cannot keep
their vehicles sufficiently under control in posted 20 mph kiddie zones
or behind schools buses to avoid manslaughter and this master of
misinformation managed to injure (not kill) 9 people on a crime spree
through a major U.S. college campus. On my personal fandango through
the Boise International Airport I think I could have got a few if I had
not created my racing friction clutch in my Mazda RX-7. Amazing how
calm people can be with a 150hp rotary rocket screaming and grit
grinding the clutch. Somebody was winding a turboprop up to
destruction I do not think I would be confident the fan could not pull
it .... at least not enough to walzt out with the kiddies and wives in
tow. Maybe I could nerve myself up to risk the baggage. No need to
take my word for it. There is a report somewhere because I was
apprehended wandering off from the incident.
Is it cartoon physics sent down from God to protect those bible belt
believers or sheer keystone incompetence resulting from reduced blood
flow to the brain from winding those turbines too tight?
Personally I recall the CIA recruiting on campus. It might be fun to
drive over there in a special caterpillar training with the new
prototype transmission which comes standard with four power take offs
with couple of tanks of willy wonkas biodiesal and setup a special
patriotic web transmisssion. Then watch the shock and awe as local
super patriots that know how to scream at football games but can not
quite drift from the sugar daddy's lines yet figure out not everyone in
the crowd is a peace worshipping muslim.
If we get short on attendence we could always take some video for Lou
Dobbs of authentic U.S. college graduates burning Mexican flags and
walking barefoot ala Kung Fooiu over Israeli, Iranium, and Iraguis flags
before sewing them together and siccing the nano weather elements on
them at some International Seaport that needs modernization and
publicity. Coos Bay, Oregon could use some publicity and investment
capital (it is one of the largest natural seaports on the West Coast)
but it is upwind from our Capital City and just incidentall my future
humble abode. I therefoe benovolently propose we allow Portland to
continue targeting itself for dirty bombs as the only usable economic
port between Seatle and San Franscico.
Voting is premeditated in the U.S. Most places require registration in
advance. This is necessary to allow the system time to prepare
validation lists that can be checked by diverse (usually two, one
Republican, one Democrat but sometimes I guess another party has
volunteers) volunteers auditing or witnessing the voting and counting.
Interesting! I suppose if the winners of the vote are planning on
executing anyone found guilty of treason or war crimes then voting might
be construed by some sovereigns as premediated murder!
Or would that be assassination since the sovereign voter is dispatching
an employee apparatus to carry out the sentence?
It is going to be a greek tragedy if Osama Bin Laden successfully has
this maniac martry who cannot find a gas peddle or a steering despite a
Master's degree from the local campus assassinated or assaulted and then
pins the blame on American "Patriots" or sloppy incompentent police
custody. Look at that American MP executive incapable of protecting
prisoneers in her custody from torturers and sadistic pregnant women.
.... and we could have that on video or animate it for cash and carry
primetime U.S. TV!!!! well .... subject to the needs of War on Drugs,
and the War on Poverty, and the War on Colds, and the War on Rich
Murderers, and the War on Aging, and the War on the Beast of the
Apocylypse, and the actual alsmost declared War on Saddam Hussein,
...... I think I forgot some Wars but I guess only the rating wars
really hit the bottom in any significant way and only then if the
feedback loops are managed appropriately.
>>If you are a U.S. voter I will point out that it is likely to be more
>>effective voting representatives into office who will take out the
>>totalitarian trash rather than resisting smart missiles launched by the
>>U.S. military from hundreds of miles away or secret warrants or
>>decisions made out of view of the public, allegedly for the benefit of
>>the U.S. public.
>>
>>
>>
>Good luck!
>
>
Used my quota already. I am a natural born U.S. citizen. Never cared
much for gambling either although my parents support of the local indian
tribes has replaced my letterman jacket twice over with a stealth
walking jacket. When feeling paranoid strolling the starlights
fantastic, when I hear critical supplies headed anywhere after hours I
listen closely and prepare to exit stage orthogonal.
Engineering used to be about calculated risks ... so I was informed at
Oregon State University anyway. They left out the part about local
maxima and minima along other arbitrary, capricious, or self serving
axis. If the game is rigged properly it is not really gambling until
the games changes unexpectedly, is it? Nothing like shooting a patriot
for treason because he was so good at doing his job at the front that
the rear echelon heroes manage to phases changes the rules after mid
morning tea and crumpets in secret in contravention of secret laws
specifying late creative accounting justifying mission critical
initiative. I mean one could the benefit in an appropriately managed
training environment until the instructors started using their god like
control of the environment to inflict dogma or brain washing on the
neophytes or less mortals or generalists or other field specialists
offspring and/or interests.
>
>
>>If you are not a U.S. citizen, I should point out that large social
>>systems with lots of momentum often take large aggregate inputs and time
>>to change course. A choice to actively resist U.S.G. totalitarian trash
>>may be a life or death altering decision that is effectively irrevocable
>>for the next few decades or centuries.
>>
>>
>>
>Those of us outside the US see these things more clearly. It's easier
>to see the whole forest when you're standing outside of it.
>
>
>
This reassuring. Did you have some specific public data that you wanted
to bring to my attention? A few links should not overload the
Foundation's magnificent servers .... might be good if at least a few
links were applicable to the Foundations interest in all human knowledge
.... actually if you could find a link outside of those interests we
could contact the SETI@home folks and get some real publicity!
>Perhaps "vote of confidence" might have been a better term. Entropy in
>a volunteer organization becomes manifest when it substitutes rules for
>principles.
>
>
I disagree. Rules and principles represent standard operating
procedure, nothing more. A child is warned to look both ways and cross
at a crosswalk. An adult strolls where he pleases but is accountable
for his behavior. A stroll through a freeway that results in several
hundred car pileup might be prosecuted as mass murder where as a child
squashed might be prosecuted as child endangerment or vehicular
homicide. In Oregon the basic rule of the road is that you are
responsible for being able to halt the vehicle before hitting a
stationary object.
Vote of confidence indeed. What kind of confidence is Eric going to
get from a trolling sock puppet voting in his favor? Placebo was
adequate even if not the best term for it previously held place in the
semantic web. Now that I have modified its useage creatively (and self
beneficially I might note with pride) I wonder if the term must be kept
even more secret from the patient than was previously the case?
>
>
>>People unfamilar with law as
>>it is practiced in the United States have a tendency towards gullibility
>>when a well educated lawyer in a crisp three piece suit getting paid big
>>bucks gives them free advice. ... It turns out that a lawyer
>>representing his client is apparently free (of consequences) to give
>>others poor legal advice (lie or attempt to deceive people other than
>>his client regarding matters of law) if it serves the interests of their
>>official paying client or some other similar self serving mumbo jumbo.
>>
>>
>>
>There is an element of institutionalized chutzpah to it all. Lawyers
>play a large role in writing laws. And what lawyer turned judge would
>recuse himself for conflict of interest in a case that attacks the
>privileges of his profession?
>
>It's fascinating to observe how otherwise normal rebels who regularly
>confront elitism in the professions will still pusilanimously pepper
>their comments with "IANAL".
>
>
lol Personally I always considered it a fair warning. I mean you
never really know if you are really talking to the master of the local
universe or some precocious teenager or some government agent or 60 year
old genus coasting or obsessing over important issues rather than your
interests. I have encountered some barracks lawyers who talk a pretty
chat as a result of hefty, detailed reading. Some of them have even
seen a judge pull a technicality out of his ass or thin air or even a
creative or admitted violation of law sure to overturned upon appeal
.... If you want fair results you better be damn sure to do the local
investigation and politicking necessary to rerig the local game within a
scope you are comfortable local assets can deal with fairly if they
choose to. Then you better do the background checks on key players
.... then pray for whatever is needed ..... then settle if you can get
"fair" or "adequate" or "better than nothing" deal.
or be a good loser
or be a good winner. Ever wonder what would happen if after winning an
environmental lawsuit a major multinational did the "right thing" and
issued checks for audited damages and cleaned up the damn mess? They
can pay an executive hundreds of millions for effectively lying,
murdering, pillaging, etc. etc. but they cannot invest a few million or
tens or hundreds necessary to mitigate damage killing or damaging
people, cultures, nations and even planets.
be a better winner ... pay for the heart attack victims' medical bills.
IANAL could be construed as fair warning, a proud boast (I can read even
if I did not attend Harvard or Yale or secret presidential tutorials
after election), or a prudent attempt to limit liability or propagate
accurate information. Shorthand for check the facts for yourself.
>
>
>>Drat! I forgot to ask whether his firm does business with Bomis or
>>Wikia or other businesses owned, operated or invested in by members of
>>the stacked Board. Maybe next time.
>>
>>Hmm ... also forgot to ask whether he volunteers time as an editor at
>>any Wikimedia projects or operates any investigatory sock puppets. ....
>>Maybe the time after the next time minus negative three or four?
>>
>>
>>
>I think that I would prefer an approach that does not make one lawyer a
>scapegoat for his entire industry.
>
>
Scapegoat how? He keeps saying he works for the Foundation. The
Foundation by definition belongs to the God-King, he stated he was going
to set it up that way and then proceeded to do so. So does he have a
responsiblity to other stacked Board members or not? Do the Board
Members take turns signing paychecks? Maybe they should. Maybe it
would be perceived as an unusual attempt to distribute blame or
responsibility in a premeditated fashion .... thus increasing legal
risks in an already possibly hazardous situation.
The situation in America is fraught with hazards for business. We
usually do not firebomb the bastards, we usually try to drop a quarter
(or silver dollar or email) on them or call a lawyer. We are the most
litiginous society on Earth and some business people claim it is killing
their bottom line.
I assure you that anybody that ever comes after Jimbo on charges that he
is mismanaging a nonprofit for personal benefit and exercising total
control and is thus liable on a personal basis for damages (I hope he
bought a nice home with cash, it is my understanding that Florida is
popular for bankruptcies because afterward one can sell the house and
use the capital to start over.) is going to be looking hard at client
lawyer relationships and intermingled financial affairs.
Nobody warns a scapegoat. They are slaughtered at the convenience of
the owners for their own benefit by definition.
>
>
>>I guess what I should have or could have asked is: In your
>>professional opinion, would it reduce current or future legal
>>liabilities and/or expenses if different guidelines (from the apparently
>>nonexistent ones or the ones currently in use) regarding conflicts of
>>interest or potential conflicts of interest were developed and
>>implemented by the Wikimedia Foundation?
>>
>>
>>
>Is this really the stuff for lawyers' opinions? In all fairness to
>lawyers people who ask them questions are more often looking for
>certainty instead of mere opinion. A relatively honest lawyer after due
>research may tell them that a certain course of action has a 99% chance
>of not leading to a lawsuit, but the client is not satisfied with the 1%
>risk so he rejects the more profitable course of action out of fear. It
>really comes down to people making decisions and accepting the
>responsibility and consequences of those decisions without looking for
>someone else (like a lawyer) to blame when things go sour.
>
>
lol So how come the Wikimedia Foundation hired a lawyer? Maybe Jimbo
had more money than time when he researched how to get started in
business. I had more time than money but I still payed a lawyer for
expertise and administrative processing when it was time to put my
initial attempt at business entrepreneurship out of its misery.
Worked out ok. Everybody's paychecks cleared but I stiffed my credit
card companies. They were not happy about this role reversal but they
had little recourse, all the i's were dotted and t's crossed. Most of
the local businesses when they go under protect their credit ratings by
paying the big guys and bouncing the payroll checks. We have local
entrepreneurs that go bankrupt every quarter or two and usually have no
less than two or three businesses active at a time. They live pretty
good lifestyles. All I can figure is they are tied in pretty well with
the local networks of professionals.
>
>
>>>I am often highly critical of the current management format, but I can
>>>also see enough dangers in a totally democratic system to be wary of
>>>such a model.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I also would be skeptical of a "pure" "democracy" of one sock puppet one
>>vote. I doubt it is even feasible to set up such a structure up as a
>>U.S. liability limited non profit or for profit corporation. It is my
>>understanding that U.S. law requires specific accountable points of
>>contact when filing for the legal priveleges granted to regulated legal
>>organizations. However, there is a wide range of lattitude left to the
>>individual registered organization in the U.S. regarding how they
>>"manage" their own affairs within the constraints of the law. The
>>dichotomy of our current and past discussion alternating between
>>unilateral bandwidthianism (the guy with control of the centralized
>>editing bandwidth makes the rules) and total chaos (one sock puppet one
>>vote) barely scratches the surface of the range of possibilities
>>available in the good old USA.
>>
>>
>>
>U.S. corporate structures are governed by state law. It says something
>when a state like Delaware has corporate headquarters completely out of
>proportion to its population. Voting in profit corporations is
>democratically on a one share one vote basis; you can buy as many
>sockpuppets as you can afford.
>
This is factually incorrect. Voting proceeds in accordance with how the
stocks, shares, other mumbo jumbo financial instruments are defined and
voting procedures and priveleges defined in the law, offerings,
procedures, guidelines, etc. Preferred shares usually get dividends
before others such as common stock but have no vote; a lawyer better
have read the fine print or you may find your "share" is a share of
liability like Lloyd's of Londons new partners encountered a few years
back when joining that prestigious partnership.
Common stock often means one dollar of initial capital and one vote just
as you have stated above. It also often means whatever someone wants it
to mean. The guy that writes the charter probably also writes or
supervises writing the shares and the voting procedures .... caveat
emptor right? lol I do not think I have ever seen a case study or a
wiki collaboration on that kind of stuff. I wonder if the business
school at Wikiversity will be interested or if we will have to setup a
business engineering department to protect the rights of the hoard of
free engineers I expect we will develop over the next few centuries via
our masterful community management?
>I don't really have a solution to
>suggest about how Wikimedia should be run. In the early days there were
>many sceptics who could not imagine such a scheme as viable, and look
>where it ranks now within the top 20 websites in the world. Wikiholics
>(even just American ones) are not typical of their ambient populations.
>It's a gang of people with insanely strong individual POVs trying to
>bring NPOV to the world. Go figure!
>
>
Ok, you have me giggling now so I have to go setup my mom's new gateway
computer or get some sleep or something. First amendment convolved
with infinite automated soapboxbots presented almost worldwide via a
global focal point. Nobody leanin nottung except maybe how to use oa
spell checker if not to lazy .... image what can be accomplished if we
can just tell those people how to study at our impending official
wikiversity. Truly staggering what a corrupt self serving tyrant can
accomplish in collaboration with secret police and informers or whiners.
So kindergarden works .... what will we do for first grade if Jimbo
edicts no game cheating manuals? Script cheating kiddies unite!!!!
Thinking ... thinking .... nothing ... maybe go check out Jimbo Neutrino
for a clue .... btw. Saw either a Quantum or Chesire at Barion alley
downtown tonight. Mentioned it to a local newsman. When asked
pointblank about Wikipedia he admitted he used it regularly. We discuss
various modus operandis and scamming techniques and he paraphrased back
enough that I could tell I had met my master in conspiracy analsis. I
reminded him how to find Wikinews (link on main page of Wikimedia) and
he acknowledge he might wander by sometime to check it out.
BTW Elvis may have left the building. There is an independent
calculational chemistry wiki and a quantum physics wiki club online. I
have not reviewed either in detail sufficient to have an opinion on
whether they will thrive and grow or whither and fade away. Some
mother's may I milkweed seeds have obviously drifted away .... whether
they will waft back into poor little weedy Wikiversity to sow dandy
lionesses or useful tansy tee ooffs, probably up to sun spots or
neutrinos fluxes or something; if it ever gets started; might be a good
aerodynamics simulation exercise ... how does one photograph virtual
smoke rings or streamlines in a time tagged temporarily ordered even if
not completely accurately enough to be confident in short term trends?
I wonder if FlightGear.org could be usefully mutated or augmented with
such a beast .... a virtual plane with its own wind tunnel for adhoc mod
testing .... this could be the answer to TA2 if we cannot attract the
halo addicts because Jimbo, in his infinite wisdom, has decided there is
no need for an english war college no matter how useful it would be to
various offshoots of the global infestation of former Englishmen and
simmering irate pit bulls.
So when we are fantasizing about saving the day on Flight 93 by pulling
a Rambo on opportunity because we were to stupid (or smart! ... I will
make the case that Bin Laden is CIA indian off the reservation as a
misinformation ploy to establish Amercian totacracy for the next
millenium another time to save space and time herein) to premediate a
locking door or former combat pilot side arm training via pinball
simulators we can have a combat engineer design us a robot pilot capable
of flying the now mangled 777 hanging by two thirds of fusalege and a
single source transister supplier or simply change the control laws on
the autopilot to sinc appropriately with the stealth bombers recalled
from Iranium asphalting ...... a wing with a landing system and a pilot
... my kingdom for a wings and some live pilots inaccessbile to
panicking passengers all racing to the front in a horde to exceed the
control authority of the flappers in the increasing breeze on the way down.
Too bad those heroes never had a centroid or center of mass aware
wargame when they playing corporate team paintball ..... in clean
green english I acknowledge and agree they were heroes and people are
alive on the ground today because they forced the plane down. Still
Rambo amano amano may have been a better strategy with women and kids
dispatched symetrically to the back ... maybe that is how they did it.
Have not seen the authoritative movie or post mortem yet. Too bad
there is no $200 video camera and attached telemetry for the super
dupers global realtime (oxymoron unless FTL particle or appropriate time
multiplexing has been discovered or designed) IFDAPS (Integrated Flight
Data Acquistion Processing System) or RAPIDS (Realtime Acquistion
Processing Instrumentation and Data System) ejection capsule or black
box. Maybe next time.
I wonder if we could use the swordfish guy's 747 if we
God I love that statement. "Nobody ever thought a 747 could be used for
a cruise missile." I can understand that maybe she did not care for
John Wayne movies or the pacific ocean ..... but how was she missed WWII
at an Ivy League ...... maybe she studied under Japanese tutors
conspiring against us. Kamakaze would a smoky purple merry sort of
drink .... and suicide martyr or hijacker would be .... I am at loss.
Have to come back later.
Have a nice day, Ray
Michael R. Irwin
SCI Upgrade Program Manager,
retired, combat fatigued
cc:carnivore
cc:cape canaveral
cc:Louis L'Amour's brain excised co-conspirator, billy bobbers,
cc:chesire cat & quantum pb lead poisening barion possum depleted
radiation ammunition poisening or breeder feul ? who is financing which
war?
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l