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Hi Cetateanu --

As replied previously, we don't yet have infrastructure for conveniently
renaming sites. Given that the site has been locked for years and
there's nothing to replace it with at mo.wikipedia.org, it's no higher
on our priority list than the other sites that have language code
renames pending.

Since we've been in the midst of a slow migration of external text
storage as well, it's slid farther back on the burner than planned. I'll
see if we can make sure it's on the radar at least...


The problem isn't intractable, but merely inconvenient, and due to the
number of sites & databases needing renaming it needs to be scripted and
tested for safety first:

* Ensure language/localization files have been updated for new language code

* Lock site

* Rename public file storage subdirectories

* Rename private file storage subdirectories

* Ensure all site config entries have been updated for new language code

* Rename core database on primary database cluster (create new database,
rename all tables, drop old empty database)

* Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated

* Rename blob databases on all external storage clusters (for each of 22
clusters, create new database, rename all tables, drop old empty databases)

* Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated

* Make sure it didn't break anything _else_...

* Unlock site

* Rename or move data dump archives

* Check if anything else needs cleaning up in recent changes channels,
interwiki links, or other output.


-- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)


Cetateanu Moldovanu wrote:
> *Hi, I want to remind you that on 26 Nov 2008
> **http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047554.html** you
> have promised that subdomain name mo will become mo-cyrl, it's July now
> and mo is still not yet renamed.*
> * *
> *
> If you cannot rename please delete it altogether.
>
> Hope to get a ETA, or to know at which point is the progress.
>
> Brion Vibber and his superiors, please make a room for this task to be
> done, also I (as a programmer) can volunteer to help you do this thing
> if you have a lack of resources !
>
> IT'S IMPORTANT !
> *


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Hello Mister Vibber,

I'm glad to see you already made a plan, I supose you know the best
mediawiki and wikipedia architecture, aren't there anybody else to execute
those points from that plan ?

Even if those points sounds havy, since the number of articles&files from mo
is not so high, I'm sure you can do all those points in a day or two of
work.

>for each of 22 clusters
I'm sure you have a script to execute a command on all clusters at once and
see the results.

Or in the meantime you build a "infrastructure for conveniently renaming
sites", you can put in place a temporary solution that is easier to build.
You could just make a new vhost(mo-cyrill) that point to the same dir as mo.
And for mo you could make a htaccess (or equivalent) that would redirect all
the request to the mo-cyrill (with a script that get REQUEST_URI and output
a redirect header).

Hope to hear you soon.

Best regards,

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 2:03 AM, Brion Vibber <brion@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hi Cetateanu --
>
> As replied previously, we don't yet have infrastructure for conveniently
> renaming sites. Given that the site has been locked for years and there's
> nothing to replace it with at mo.wikipedia.org, it's no higher on our
> priority list than the other sites that have language code renames pending.
>
> Since we've been in the midst of a slow migration of external text storage
> as well, it's slid farther back on the burner than planned. I'll see if we
> can make sure it's on the radar at least...
>
>
> The problem isn't intractable, but merely inconvenient, and due to the
> number of sites & databases needing renaming it needs to be scripted and
> tested for safety first:
>
> * Ensure language/localization files have been updated for new language
> code
>
> * Lock site
>
> * Rename public file storage subdirectories
>
> * Rename private file storage subdirectories
>
> * Ensure all site config entries have been updated for new language code
>
> * Rename core database on primary database cluster (create new database,
> rename all tables, drop old empty database)
>
> * Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated
>
> * Rename blob databases on all external storage clusters (for each of 22
> clusters, create new database, rename all tables, drop old empty databases)
>
> * Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated
>
> * Make sure it didn't break anything _else_...
>
> * Unlock site
>
> * Rename or move data dump archives
>
> * Check if anything else needs cleaning up in recent changes channels,
> interwiki links, or other output.
>
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
>
>
> Cetateanu Moldovanu wrote:
>
>> *Hi, I want to remind you that on 26 Nov 2008 **
>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047554.html**you have promised that subdomain name mo will become mo-cyrl, it's July now
>> and mo is still not yet renamed.*
>>
>> * *
>> *
>> If you cannot rename please delete it altogether.
>> Hope to get a ETA, or to know at which point is the progress.
>> Brion Vibber and his superiors, please make a room for this task to be
>> done, also I (as a programmer) can volunteer to help you do this thing if
>> you have a lack of resources !
>> IT'S IMPORTANT !
>> *
>>
>
>
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Cetateanu Im going to be nice in how I say this, DO NOT DEMAND things from
developers. If dev says they are not ready THEY ARE NOT READY. please also
consider that these developers run one of the top ten websites on the
internet, so they must be doing it right for the most part or the servers
would be a smoking pile of rubble. There are a lot more complex and unseen
factors that exist on large scale server arrays such as wikimedia's than
what your recommending. If either of your ideas where feasible with the
current system it would have been taken care of. Here is a suggestion, LET
THE DEVELOPERS DEVELOP a good way to implement your request without breaking
things

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Cetateanu Moldovanu
<cetateanumd@gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello Mister Vibber,
>
> I'm glad to see you already made a plan, I supose you know the best
> mediawiki and wikipedia architecture, aren't there anybody else to execute
> those points from that plan ?
>
> Even if those points sounds havy, since the number of articles&files from
> mo
> is not so high, I'm sure you can do all those points in a day or two of
> work.
>
> >for each of 22 clusters
> I'm sure you have a script to execute a command on all clusters at once and
> see the results.
>
> Or in the meantime you build a "infrastructure for conveniently renaming
> sites", you can put in place a temporary solution that is easier to build.
> You could just make a new vhost(mo-cyrill) that point to the same dir as
> mo.
> And for mo you could make a htaccess (or equivalent) that would redirect
> all
> the request to the mo-cyrill (with a script that get REQUEST_URI and output
> a redirect header).
>
> Hope to hear you soon.
>
> Best regards,
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 2:03 AM, Brion Vibber <brion@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi Cetateanu --
> >
> > As replied previously, we don't yet have infrastructure for conveniently
> > renaming sites. Given that the site has been locked for years and there's
> > nothing to replace it with at mo.wikipedia.org, it's no higher on our
> > priority list than the other sites that have language code renames
> pending.
> >
> > Since we've been in the midst of a slow migration of external text
> storage
> > as well, it's slid farther back on the burner than planned. I'll see if
> we
> > can make sure it's on the radar at least...
> >
> >
> > The problem isn't intractable, but merely inconvenient, and due to the
> > number of sites & databases needing renaming it needs to be scripted and
> > tested for safety first:
> >
> > * Ensure language/localization files have been updated for new language
> > code
> >
> > * Lock site
> >
> > * Rename public file storage subdirectories
> >
> > * Rename private file storage subdirectories
> >
> > * Ensure all site config entries have been updated for new language code
> >
> > * Rename core database on primary database cluster (create new database,
> > rename all tables, drop old empty database)
> >
> > * Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated
> >
> > * Rename blob databases on all external storage clusters (for each of 22
> > clusters, create new database, rename all tables, drop old empty
> databases)
> >
> > * Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated
> >
> > * Make sure it didn't break anything _else_...
> >
> > * Unlock site
> >
> > * Rename or move data dump archives
> >
> > * Check if anything else needs cleaning up in recent changes channels,
> > interwiki links, or other output.
> >
> >
> > -- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
> >
> >
> > Cetateanu Moldovanu wrote:
> >
> >> *Hi, I want to remind you that on 26 Nov 2008 **
> >>
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047554.html**youhave promised that subdomain name mo will become mo-cyrl, it's July now
> >> and mo is still not yet renamed.*
> >>
> >> * *
> >> *
> >> If you cannot rename please delete it altogether.
> >> Hope to get a ETA, or to know at which point is the progress.
> >> Brion Vibber and his superiors, please make a room for this task to be
> >> done, also I (as a programmer) can volunteer to help you do this thing
> if
> >> you have a lack of resources !
> >> IT'S IMPORTANT !
> >> *
> >>
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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2009/7/10 John Doe <phoenixoverride@gmail.com>:
> Cetateanu Im going to be nice in how I say this, DO NOT DEMAND things from
> developers. If dev says they are not ready THEY ARE NOT READY. please also
> consider that these developers run one of the top ten websites on the
> internet, so they must be doing it right for the most part or the servers
> would be a smoking pile of rubble. There are a lot more complex and unseen
> factors that exist on large scale server arrays such as wikimedia's than
> what your recommending. If either of your ideas where feasible with the
> current system it would have been taken care of. Here is a suggestion, LET
> THE DEVELOPERS DEVELOP a good way to implement your request without breaking
> things

Given the current time over which the request has been ongoing and the
politics involved (remeber they only stopped shooting each other
17years ago) I think it is understandable if people are not entirely
prepared to sit back and hope the devs get on with it.

--
geni

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If there is one thing I've learned so far in my short life, it is that
patience is among the greatest virtues and that politeness will
usually get me much further than demands.

There are of course situations where it is necessary to be firm,
however this is not one of them considering the power dynamic. If I
want a developer to do something for me, the last thing I will do is
demand they do it (mind you it's been several years since I asked
anything of them as far as I can remember). It's certainly possible
that they will forget about my request so I may remind them from time
to time, but it's essential to recognize that they are very busy
people, an already-locked Wikipedia with only several hundred articles
is understandably going to be much lower on their list of priorities
than problems involving the heavy traffic Wikis such as en.wp or
de.wp.

I'm not suggesting that anybody ignore the issue, just that a
different approach be taken to resolution.

Mark

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:14 PM, geni<geniice@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2009/7/10 John Doe <phoenixoverride@gmail.com>:
>> Cetateanu Im going to be nice in how I say this, DO NOT DEMAND things from
>> developers. If dev says they are not ready THEY ARE NOT READY. please also
>> consider that these developers run one of the top ten websites on the
>> internet, so they must be doing it right for the most part or the servers
>> would be a smoking pile of rubble. There are a lot more complex and unseen
>> factors that exist on large scale server arrays such as wikimedia's than
>> what your recommending. If either of your ideas where feasible with the
>> current system it would have been taken care of. Here is a suggestion, LET
>> THE DEVELOPERS DEVELOP a good way to implement your request without breaking
>> things
>
> Given the current time over which the request has been ongoing and the
> politics involved (remeber they only stopped shooting each other
> 17years ago) I think it is understandable if people are not entirely
> prepared to sit back and hope the devs get on with it.
>
> --
> geni
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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2009/7/10 Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com>:

> I'm not suggesting that anybody ignore the issue, just that a
> different approach be taken to resolution.


I am. Nobody cares, approximately.


- d.

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Okay, I can agree with that.

Mark

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:25 PM, David Gerard<dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2009/7/10 Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com>:
>
>> I'm not suggesting that anybody ignore the issue, just that a
>> different approach be taken to resolution.
>
>
> I am. Nobody cares, approximately.
>
>
> - d.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 10:06 PM, John Doe <phoenixoverride@gmail.com>wrote:

> ...

consider that these developers run one of the top ten websites on the


I didn't try to underestimate the *importance* of wikipedia.
It just uber-ridicule that a rename of subdomain (even with all those
sub-things) can take more than 7 months..
In this span of time someone motivated can launch a new wikipedia (I talk
about the software), on the Internet things are happen fast.

I don't try to underestimate your work, but I think you could do those
things faster..

And yes, wikipedia is one of "top ten websites", so much power, normally,
that should involve you are more responsible, but I don't have such a
feeling.

Hopefully you can give to this *little* thing a higher priority, or maybe
you should hire more devs, you are a "top ten websites" or what the hell.

Deletion altogether of this subdomain is also acceptable, no point of
keeping a dead locked wikipedia on a subdomain. (and you still link it from
the first page of wikipedia..how ignorant can you be..).

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com> wrote:

> If there is one thing I've learned so far in my short life, it is that
> patience is among the greatest virtues and that politeness will
> usually get me much further than demands.

As I said before, I'm a developer my self, and I know from my "experience",
when something is not demanded, it is never implemented.

On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 12:25 AM, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am. Nobody cares, approximately.
>

Your point was very valuable to this thread, thank you. Amazingly, you
"don't care" but you still wrote.

I care (my friends cares, my parents cares, my neighbours cares), and I will
write as many time it will need.
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On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Cetateanu
Moldovanu<cetateanumd@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 10:06 PM, John Doe <phoenixoverride@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> ...
>
> consider that these developers run one of the top ten websites on the
>
>
> I didn't try to underestimate the *importance* of wikipedia.
> It just uber-ridicule that a rename of subdomain (even with all those
> sub-things) can take more than 7 months..
> In this span of time someone motivated can launch a new wikipedia (I talk
> about the software), on the Internet things are happen fast.
>
> I don't try to underestimate your work, but I think you could do those
> things faster..
>
> And yes, wikipedia is one of "top ten websites", so much power, normally,
> that should involve you are more responsible, but I don't have such a
> feeling.
>
> Hopefully you can give to this *little* thing a higher priority, or maybe
> you should hire more devs, you are a "top ten websites" or what the hell.
>
> Deletion altogether of this subdomain is also acceptable, no point of
> keeping a dead locked wikipedia on a subdomain. (and you still link it from
> the first page of wikipedia..how ignorant can you be..).
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If there is one thing I've learned so far in my short life, it is that
>> patience is among the greatest virtues and that politeness will
>> usually get me much further than demands.
>
> As I said before, I'm a developer my self, and I know from my "experience",
> when something is not demanded, it is never implemented.
>
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 12:25 AM, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am. Nobody cares, approximately.
>>
>

*sigh* brion answered, let's everybody ignore further demands and
things will happen when will happen
we're just making more and more noise by explaining to him over and
over that his request is not priority. Period.

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Cetateanu Moldovanu wrote:
> (and you still link it from
> the first page of wikipedia..how ignorant can you be..).

Be polite. I would otherwise sympathise with your situation, but
DON'T-BE-RUDE.
Moreover, the first page of wikipedia is managed by wikipedians, not by
the developers...


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