Mailing List Archive: Fwd: Should WMF opt out of Phorm?

Fwd: Should WMF opt out of Phorm?

Apr 1, 2009, 7:33 AM

Post #1 of 9 (1731 views)

http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2009/03/22/open-letter-call-for-major-websites-to-opt-out-of-phorm/

Should we say "er, no, not our data either" or ignore them?

(This has been discussed on internal lists as well, with all
commenting saying "HELL YES." The question then is whether, by some
obscure legal twist, this would leave WMF somehow exposed. And whether
it's worth it anyway.)

- d.

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Re: Fwd: Should WMF opt out of Phorm? [ In reply to ]

kaldari at gmail

Apr 1, 2009, 11:48 AM

Post #2 of 9 (1679 views)

Permalink

At this point I would suggest that we go ahead and block access to
Wikipedia from the UK entirely. Wikipedia isn't compatible with their
censorship, libel, copyright, or privacy policies.

Ryan Kaldari

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:33 AM, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2009/03/22/open-letter-call-for-major-websites-to-opt-out-of-phorm/
>
> Should we say "er, no, not our data either" or ignore them?
>
> (This has been discussed on internal lists as well, with all
> commenting saying "HELL YES." The question then is whether, by some
> obscure legal twist, this would leave WMF somehow exposed. And whether
> it's worth it anyway.)
>
>
> - d.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Fwd: Should WMF opt out of Phorm? [ In reply to ]

kaldari at gmail

Apr 1, 2009, 11:50 AM

Post #3 of 9 (1673 views)

Permalink

On a serious note, however, I would say HELL YES.

Ryan Kaldari

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Ryan Kaldari <kaldari@gmail.com> wrote:
> At this point I would suggest that we go ahead and block access to
> Wikipedia from the UK entirely. Wikipedia isn't compatible with their
> censorship, libel, copyright, or privacy policies.
>
> Ryan Kaldari
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:33 AM, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2009/03/22/open-letter-call-for-major-websites-to-opt-out-of-phorm/
>>
>> Should we say "er, no, not our data either" or ignore them?
>>
>> (This has been discussed on internal lists as well, with all
>> commenting saying "HELL YES." The question then is whether, by some
>> obscure legal twist, this would leave WMF somehow exposed. And whether
>> it's worth it anyway.)
>>
>>
>> - d.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>

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Re: Fwd: Should WMF opt out of Phorm? [ In reply to ]

neuro.wikipedia at googlemail

Apr 1, 2009, 1:56 PM

Post #4 of 9 (1677 views)

Permalink

HELL PERHAPS.

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 7:50 PM, Ryan Kaldari <kaldari@gmail.com> wrote:

> On a serious note, however, I would say HELL YES.
>
> Ryan Kaldari
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Ryan Kaldari <kaldari@gmail.com> wrote:
> > At this point I would suggest that we go ahead and block access to
> > Wikipedia from the UK entirely. Wikipedia isn't compatible with their
> > censorship, libel, copyright, or privacy policies.
> >
> > Ryan Kaldari
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:33 AM, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2009/03/22/open-letter-call-for-major-websites-to-opt-out-of-phorm/
> >>
> >> Should we say "er, no, not our data either" or ignore them?
> >>
> >> (This has been discussed on internal lists as well, with all
> >> commenting saying "HELL YES." The question then is whether, by some
> >> obscure legal twist, this would leave WMF somehow exposed. And whether
> >> it's worth it anyway.)
> >>
> >>
> >> - d.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> foundation-l mailing list
> >> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: Fwd: Should WMF opt out of Phorm? [ In reply to ]

geniice at gmail

Apr 1, 2009, 1:58 PM

Post #5 of 9 (1673 views)

Permalink

2009/4/1 David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com>:
> http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2009/03/22/open-letter-call-for-major-websites-to-opt-out-of-phorm/
>
> Should we say "er, no, not our data either" or ignore them?
>
> (This has been discussed on internal lists as well, with all
> commenting saying "HELL YES." The question then is whether, by some
> obscure legal twist, this would leave WMF somehow exposed. And whether
> it's worth it anyway.)
>
>
> - d.

Wikipedia is not a campaigning organisation. We already supply
information to people who's net access is monitored by far more
worrying groups than phorm. So the privacy issues would not on their
own be a justification.

--
geni

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Re: Fwd: Should WMF opt out of Phorm? [ In reply to ]

kaldari at gmail

Apr 1, 2009, 2:43 PM

Post #6 of 9 (1667 views)

Permalink

Yes, but how many of them let you opt out? If we could opt out of the
Great Firewall of China, I imagine we would :)

Ryan Kaldari

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 3:58 PM, geni <geniice@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2009/4/1 David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com>:
>> http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2009/03/22/open-letter-call-for-major-websites-to-opt-out-of-phorm/
>>
>> Should we say "er, no, not our data either" or ignore them?
>>
>> (This has been discussed on internal lists as well, with all
>> commenting saying "HELL YES." The question then is whether, by some
>> obscure legal twist, this would leave WMF somehow exposed. And whether
>> it's worth it anyway.)
>>
>>
>> - d.
>
> Wikipedia is not a campaigning organisation. We already supply
> information to people who's net access is monitored by far more
> worrying groups than phorm. So the privacy issues would not on their
> own be a justification.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> geni
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Fwd: Should WMF opt out of Phorm? [ In reply to ]

geniice at gmail

Apr 1, 2009, 3:03 PM

Post #7 of 9 (1673 views)

Permalink

2009/4/1 Ryan Kaldari <kaldari@gmail.com>:
> Yes, but how many of them let you opt out? If we could opt out of the
> Great Firewall of China, I imagine we would :)

Most of these national firewalls limit the number of ISPs people can
access through. Blocking them or forcing to https would not present
too great a challenge.

--
geni

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Re: Fwd: Should WMF opt out of Phorm? [ In reply to ]

magnusmanske at googlemail

Apr 16, 2009, 7:21 AM

Post #8 of 9 (1465 views)

Permalink

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:03 PM, geni <geniice@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2009/4/1 Ryan Kaldari <kaldari@gmail.com>:
>> Yes, but how many of them let you opt out? If we could opt out of the
>> Great Firewall of China, I imagine we would :)
>
> Most of these national firewalls limit the number of ISPs people can
> access through. Blocking them or forcing to https would not present
> too great a challenge.

To revive this discussion, Amazon just submitted its opt-out.

So, unless we care less about the freedom of the Intertubes than Amazon...

Magnus

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Re: Fwd: Should WMF opt out of Phorm? [ In reply to ]

brion at wikimedia

Apr 16, 2009, 10:12 AM

Post #9 of 9 (1465 views)

Permalink

On 4/16/09 7:21 AM, Magnus Manske wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:03 PM, geni<geniice@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2009/4/1 Ryan Kaldari<kaldari@gmail.com>:
>>> Yes, but how many of them let you opt out? If we could opt out of the
>>> Great Firewall of China, I imagine we would :)
>> Most of these national firewalls limit the number of ISPs people can
>> access through. Blocking them or forcing to https would not present
>> too great a challenge.
>
> To revive this discussion, Amazon just submitted its opt-out.
>
> So, unless we care less about the freedom of the Intertubes than Amazon...

It's already slated, it's just been a wacky wild week. :) Should be done
today.

-- brion

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