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Delete "moldovan" Wikipedia
1. Wikipedia has a pretended version of it in "Moldovan language" using
the Cyrillic script
2. The state language is Moldovan (identical to Romanian), and it is
written in the Latin alphabet, not Cyrillic
3. we request you to delete the fake "Moldovan version in Cyrillic" from
Wikipedia

We have 2,212 people on facebook who signed the petition.
http://apps.facebook.com/causes/39775

Or at least rename it to mo-cyrillic.wikipedia
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Re: Delete "moldovan" Wikipedia [ In reply to ]
How many times have you sent this request to this list now?

skype: node.ue



2009/2/5 Cetateanu Moldovanu <cetateanumd@gmail.com>:
> 1. Wikipedia has a pretended version of it in "Moldovan language" using
> the Cyrillic script
> 2. The state language is Moldovan (identical to Romanian), and it is
> written in the Latin alphabet, not Cyrillic
> 3. we request you to delete the fake "Moldovan version in Cyrillic" from
> Wikipedia
>
> We have 2,212 people on facebook who signed the petition.
> http://apps.facebook.com/causes/39775
>
> Or at least rename it to mo-cyrillic.wikipedia
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Delete "moldovan" Wikipedia [ In reply to ]
I read the text of the petition, here:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/moldovanwikipedia/

Parts of it are very humorous.

"It would be absurd to have a Wikipedia in "English" of "French" with
Arabic or Cyrillic letters. It is as absurd to have a "Moldovan
Wikipedia" with a Cyrillic script."

Well, sure, it would be... but is there a part of the world where
people actually write English or French in Arabic or Cyrillic, the way
Cyrillic is used for Moldovan on the left bank of the Dniester*? If
you can show me one, I'll happily support Wikipedias for them.

"You would probably intervene if somebody would start re-writing the
English Wikipedia in Arabic letters, and you would probably not allow
that."

Well, if somebody tried to start such a project within Wikimedia, it
would probably be rejected... but then, there's no case for writing
English in Arabic. Historically, it's not been done, and it isn't done
that way by any native speaker today. On the other hand, Moldovan was
written in Cyrillic in ALL of Moldova until 1989, and today it is
still used on the left bank of the Dniester and (perhaps) in some
Moldovan expatriot communities in the former Soviet Union. What SCHOOL
teaches children English-speaking children to write their own language
using Arabic letters, the way that most Moldavian-language schools
teach Moldavian children to use Cyrillic in that territory?

I realize this is an emotional issue for you, but please don't distort
facts. If your argument is really reasonable, you should be able to
make it without resorting to invalid analogies.

---
* The politically neutral name for what is sometimes referred to as
Transnistria or the PMR.

skype: node.ue

2009/2/5 Cetateanu Moldovanu <cetateanumd@gmail.com>:
> 1. Wikipedia has a pretended version of it in "Moldovan language" using
> the Cyrillic script
> 2. The state language is Moldovan (identical to Romanian), and it is
> written in the Latin alphabet, not Cyrillic
> 3. we request you to delete the fake "Moldovan version in Cyrillic" from
> Wikipedia
>
> We have 2,212 people on facebook who signed the petition.
> http://apps.facebook.com/causes/39775
>
> Or at least rename it to mo-cyrillic.wikipedia
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Delete "moldovan" Wikipedia [ In reply to ]
2009/2/5 Cetateanu Moldovanu <cetateanumd@gmail.com>:
> 1. Wikipedia has a pretended version of it in "Moldovan language" using
> the Cyrillic script
> 2. The state language is Moldovan (identical to Romanian), and it is
> written in the Latin alphabet, not Cyrillic
> 3. we request you to delete the fake "Moldovan version in Cyrillic" from
> Wikipedia
>
> We have 2,212 people on facebook who signed the petition.
> http://apps.facebook.com/causes/39775
>
> Or at least rename it to mo-cyrillic.wikipedia

This matter has been discussed on this list, and others, numerous
times. All the issues are known, there is no point going over it all
again. I can't remember the outcome of the last discussion, but if the
wiki is going to be renamed, it will happen with or without you
bringing it up again and again. Petitions certainly won't help - you
haven't even given a number of people that think it should stay where
it is, so how can we possibly know if 2,212 is a significant number?

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Re: Delete "moldovan" Wikipedia [ In reply to ]
2009/2/5 Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com>:
> How many times have you sent this request to this list now?
>

Quite a few but since we have agreed that switching to mo-cy is the
right thing to do prodding us once a month to try and get the change
done is a not unreasonable approach.

--
geni

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Re: Delete "moldovan" Wikipedia [ In reply to ]
If that were the only purpose of his message, that'd be one thing, but
he's asking us to delete it, and then at the end of the message only
says "Or at least..." do what was said would be done.

Mark


skype: node.ue

2009/2/5 geni <geniice@gmail.com>:
> 2009/2/5 Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com>:
>> How many times have you sent this request to this list now?
>>
>
> Quite a few but since we have agreed that switching to mo-cy is the
> right thing to do prodding us once a month to try and get the change
> done is a not unreasonable approach.
>
> --
> geni
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Delete "moldovan" Wikipedia [ In reply to ]
Certainly mo-Cyrl <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_15924> (or, preforrably
ro-Cyrl, as the mo code is obsolete); Moldovan/Romanian is to my knowledge
not in any mentionable extent spoken in
Cyprus<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1>
.

2009/2/5 geni <geniice@gmail.com>

> 2009/2/5 Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com>:
> > How many times have you sent this request to this list now?
> >
>
> Quite a few but since we have agreed that switching to mo-cy is the
> right thing to do prodding us once a month to try and get the change
> done is a not unreasonable approach.
>
> --
> geni
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
Jon Harald Søby
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by
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Re: Delete "moldovan" Wikipedia [ In reply to ]
The point is you did not the yet renamed mo to mo-cyrl as stated here (
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047554.html).
I'll send a remind every month, I want to let you know this is important for
us.
Also I feel responsible for this, since I wrote on my blog that
"mo.wikipedia becomes mo-cyrl.wikipedia" in November 2008, everyone was
happy, but It's February now and the change didn't come.

I'm a web-programmer/sys-admin myself, I can help your staff if you want.
Doing more than 4 years of php5 oop programming, also have experience with
mysql replication and sql optimization, memcached, familiar with different
design patterns, also familiar with your cache strategy (squid is caching a
lot).
I'll be glad to dedicate any amount of time to help you made the changes in
a reliable fashion.

>Mark Williamson
>the way that most Moldavian-language schools
>teach Moldavian children to use Cyrillic in that territory
And if a English school in some country ruled by a army start to teach their
children to write English in Arabic, would you change en.wikipedia to Arabic
script too ? You should know that in Transitria there's a Russian army, and
it's not a democratic country(even if they say so), if you'll try to do any
protest there here is what happening "In September 2007, the leader of the
Transnistrian Communist party, Oleg
Horjan<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Oleg_Horjan&action=edit&redlink=1>,
was sentenced at a suspended sentence of 1½ years imprisonment for
organising unsanctioned actions of protest." [
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria]
Also did you know "Despite the fact that Moldovans are around a third of
Transnistrian population, no ethnic Moldovans are members in the
Transnistrian council of ministers."
"Transnistrian local authorities insist that public education for ethnic
Moldovans in their mother tongue is done using the Soviet-originated Moldovan
Cyrillic alphabet <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_Cyrillic_alphabet>,
having restricted the usage of the Latin
script<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_script>
"
A foreign power cannot decide in witch script our language on mo.wikipedia
should be.
And since in "Transnistrian council of ministers" there is no moldovian
representant, they have no right to say in witch script moldovans there
should be write, and I call you to delete mo.wikipedia for ever.


On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Jon Harald Søby <jhsoby@gmail.com> wrote:

> Certainly mo-Cyrl <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_15924> (or,
> preforrably
> ro-Cyrl, as the mo code is obsolete); Moldovan/Romanian is to my knowledge
> not in any mentionable extent spoken in
> Cyprus<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1>
> .
>
> 2009/2/5 geni <geniice@gmail.com>
>
> > 2009/2/5 Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com>:
> > > How many times have you sent this request to this list now?
> > >
> >
> > Quite a few but since we have agreed that switching to mo-cy is the
> > right thing to do prodding us once a month to try and get the change
> > done is a not unreasonable approach.
> >
> > --
> > geni
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jon Harald Søby
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: Delete "moldovan" Wikipedia [ In reply to ]
2009/2/7 Cetateanu Moldovanu <cetateanumd@gmail.com>:
> The point is you did not the yet renamed mo to mo-cyrl as stated here (
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047554.html).

"You"? I hope you realize this is a mailinglist. The majority of
people who are getting these e-mails aren't capable of making such a
change, myself included. This is just an annoyance for most of us.

> I'll send a remind every month, I want to let you know this is important for
> us.

I think we understand that already. However, the developers are very
busy. It's on their radar, they will do it eventually.

> Also I feel responsible for this, since I wrote on my blog that
> "mo.wikipedia becomes mo-cyrl.wikipedia" in November 2008, everyone was
> happy, but It's February now and the change didn't come.

Give it more time. In English there is a saying, "good things come to
those who wait". Patience, please.

>>Mark Williamson
>>the way that most Moldavian-language schools
>>teach Moldavian children to use Cyrillic in that territory
> And if a English school in some country ruled by a army start to teach their
> children to write English in Arabic, would you change en.wikipedia to Arabic
> script too ?

If that were the case, I wouldn't object to having a such a version of
Wikipedia. Why should I? If it's being taught to children.

> You should know that in Transitria there's a Russian army, and
> it's not a democratic country(even if they say so), if you'll try to do any

I don't care about the politics, that is irrelevant here. I can read
Moldovan, and I have read all of your blogs and many of the articles
related to this Wikipedia, and I have seen how people call it "Soviet
Wikipedia" and things like that. However, when considering such
issues, politics are not considered relevant by the Wikimedia
Foundation. What is relevant is whether or not people actually are
using a language, and that is very clear in this situation, although
it is also clear that most of those people have no Internet access.

> protest there here is what happening "In September 2007, the leader of the
> Transnistrian Communist party, Oleg
> Horjan<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Oleg_Horjan&action=edit&redlink=1>,

I'm familiar with the situation.

> Also did you know "Despite the fact that Moldovans are around a third of
> Transnistrian population, no ethnic Moldovans are members in the
> Transnistrian council of ministers."

It's true that ethnic Moldavians are underrepresented in the PMR
government, but it's absolutely false to say that they aren't present
at all. There are certainly Moldavian politicians in PMR. Also,
independent polls by Western organizations show very clearly that the
vast majority of Moldavian inhabitants of the area under PMR control
support PMR independence.

> "Transnistrian local authorities insist that public education for ethnic
> Moldovans in their mother tongue is done using the Soviet-originated Moldovan
> Cyrillic alphabet <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_Cyrillic_alphabet>,
> having restricted the usage of the Latin
> script<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_script>
> "

That paragraph isn't exactly NPOV.

> A foreign power cannot decide in witch script our language on mo.wikipedia
> should be.

A foreign power?

> And since in "Transnistrian council of ministers" there is no moldovian
> representant, they have no right to say in witch script moldovans there
> should be write, and I call you to delete mo.wikipedia for ever.

This is somewhat deceptive. There are indeed Latin-script schools in
PMR area, as far as I am aware, although they are small in number.
Demand is not as huge as you imply; most people have more pressing
concerns (such as putting food on the table).

Mark

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Re: Delete "moldovan" Wikipedia [ In reply to ]
Also, I'd like to add:

I feel it is deceptive that you use a pseudonym (Moldovan for
"Moldovan Citizen") rather than your real name. What do you have to
hide? Using your real name gives you more credibility.

Mark

2009/2/7 Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com>:
> 2009/2/7 Cetateanu Moldovanu <cetateanumd@gmail.com>:
>> The point is you did not the yet renamed mo to mo-cyrl as stated here (
>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047554.html).
>
> "You"? I hope you realize this is a mailinglist. The majority of
> people who are getting these e-mails aren't capable of making such a
> change, myself included. This is just an annoyance for most of us.
>
>> I'll send a remind every month, I want to let you know this is important for
>> us.
>
> I think we understand that already. However, the developers are very
> busy. It's on their radar, they will do it eventually.
>
>> Also I feel responsible for this, since I wrote on my blog that
>> "mo.wikipedia becomes mo-cyrl.wikipedia" in November 2008, everyone was
>> happy, but It's February now and the change didn't come.
>
> Give it more time. In English there is a saying, "good things come to
> those who wait". Patience, please.
>
>>>Mark Williamson
>>>the way that most Moldavian-language schools
>>>teach Moldavian children to use Cyrillic in that territory
>> And if a English school in some country ruled by a army start to teach their
>> children to write English in Arabic, would you change en.wikipedia to Arabic
>> script too ?
>
> If that were the case, I wouldn't object to having a such a version of
> Wikipedia. Why should I? If it's being taught to children.
>
>> You should know that in Transitria there's a Russian army, and
>> it's not a democratic country(even if they say so), if you'll try to do any
>
> I don't care about the politics, that is irrelevant here. I can read
> Moldovan, and I have read all of your blogs and many of the articles
> related to this Wikipedia, and I have seen how people call it "Soviet
> Wikipedia" and things like that. However, when considering such
> issues, politics are not considered relevant by the Wikimedia
> Foundation. What is relevant is whether or not people actually are
> using a language, and that is very clear in this situation, although
> it is also clear that most of those people have no Internet access.
>
>> protest there here is what happening "In September 2007, the leader of the
>> Transnistrian Communist party, Oleg
>> Horjan<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Oleg_Horjan&action=edit&redlink=1>,
>
> I'm familiar with the situation.
>
>> Also did you know "Despite the fact that Moldovans are around a third of
>> Transnistrian population, no ethnic Moldovans are members in the
>> Transnistrian council of ministers."
>
> It's true that ethnic Moldavians are underrepresented in the PMR
> government, but it's absolutely false to say that they aren't present
> at all. There are certainly Moldavian politicians in PMR. Also,
> independent polls by Western organizations show very clearly that the
> vast majority of Moldavian inhabitants of the area under PMR control
> support PMR independence.
>
>> "Transnistrian local authorities insist that public education for ethnic
>> Moldovans in their mother tongue is done using the Soviet-originated Moldovan
>> Cyrillic alphabet <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_Cyrillic_alphabet>,
>> having restricted the usage of the Latin
>> script<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_script>
>> "
>
> That paragraph isn't exactly NPOV.
>
>> A foreign power cannot decide in witch script our language on mo.wikipedia
>> should be.
>
> A foreign power?
>
>> And since in "Transnistrian council of ministers" there is no moldovian
>> representant, they have no right to say in witch script moldovans there
>> should be write, and I call you to delete mo.wikipedia for ever.
>
> This is somewhat deceptive. There are indeed Latin-script schools in
> PMR area, as far as I am aware, although they are small in number.
> Demand is not as huge as you imply; most people have more pressing
> concerns (such as putting food on the table).
>
> Mark
>

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