Mailing List Archive

Confused with a result from the wizard
I am just 1 day into implementing spf which will eventually be done for all
our dns hosted domains. I am doing dns first, then i must patch our gateway.

I am going to display my entire dns host zone record (live test domain but i
own it so i can play with it) here since it is reasonably short. This is a
test domain before I modify our production domains (several have more than
800 A records :( )

Here is the record first, then there are some questions, one is about what the
wizard said.

$ORIGIN .
$TTL 86400 ; 1 day
forestoflives.com IN SOA ns1.sbbsnet.net.
sysadmin@sbbsnet.net. (
2004080801 ; serial
3600 ; refresh (1 hours)
900 ; retry (15 min)
259200 ; 3 days
86400 ; minimum (1 day)
)
NS ns1.sbbsnet.net.
NS ns.sbbsnet.net.
NS ns2.sbbsnet.net.
NS ns3.sbbsnet.net.
A 64.113.34.18
TXT "v=spf1 a mx -all"
MX 10 mailproc.sbbsnet.net.

$ORIGIN forestoflives.com.
www A 64.113.39.8
kamomo A 64.113.39.8
localhost A 127.0.0.1
news CNAME news.sbbsnet.net.
nntp CNAME news-feeds.sbbsnet.net.
pop3 A 64.113.34.18
smtp A 64.113.34.6
webmail CNAME pop3.forestoflives.com.


Now a little explanation. the primary zone ip is our pop3 server ip.
mailproc.sbbsnet.net mx record is our system wide smtp gateway. every domain
uses it (more than 400) and nothing can go to the outside world nor can it
come into our pop server without passing through mailproc. To simplify for
our customers we include an smtp.domain A record which is the ip address for
mailproc. During mail negotiations however, mailproc identifies itself as
only mailproc.sbbsnet.net. We use webmail on our pop3 server. Outgoing from
that is directed to mailproc again. The same goes for our web server for form
mailings.

I know I have to put an spf record for every A record that does not send mail
denying the ability to use mail at all. I have not done that yet. I believe
it would be the form:

hostname IN TXT "v=spf1 -all"

so a real life situation from above would be

kamomo A 64.113.39.8
kamomo TXT "v=spf1 -all"

yes?


For specific reasons, any mail coming from website forms and destined to our
local pop server must use the form account@pop3.hosteddomain in the to:,
however the from is never from account@www1.sbbsnet.net or
account@www.hosteddomain, it is always a true email address of
account@hosteddomain. our web mailing scripts also use smtp auth with the
gateway since some are allowed to relay to their outside email address.
If i put a spf txt record for the www entry, and our gateway does spf
checking, should i put allow or deny in the TXT record for the www server?
I would think I could put deny in there since it does not send to the outside
world. I have not reviewed the patch information or config information to
determine if I need to do anything to allow mailproc to receive mail from
www1, but not from the outside if @www1.

As you can see I put the one spf TXT line for the domain in as per the wizard
but then the wizard made a comment which confused me. It said:

-----------------------------------
So this should also appear in DNS. You may or may not be in charge of the DNS
for these entries; if you are, add them.

mailproc.sbbsnet.net. IN TXT "v=spf1 a -all"

-------------------------------------
does this go in the above forestoflives zone record (which would be out of
zone data) and all other of our domains, or do I put this once in the sbbsnet
zone record?


---
Jesse




--

Jesse
"I wouldn't want to be Gamul, that's for sure!"
The Guild Chronicles:An Odyssey of Light

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Re: Confused with a result from the wizard [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 08:36:41PM -0400, Jesse Weiss wrote:
> hostname IN TXT "v=spf1 -all"
>
> so a real life situation from above would be
>
> kamomo A 64.113.39.8
> kamomo TXT "v=spf1 -all"
>
> yes?

Sounds reasonable.

> For specific reasons, any mail coming from website forms and destined to our
> local pop server must use the form account@pop3.hosteddomain in the to:,
> however the from is never from account@www1.sbbsnet.net or
> account@www.hosteddomain, it is always a true email address of
> account@hosteddomain. our web mailing scripts also use smtp auth with the
> gateway since some are allowed to relay to their outside email address.
> If i put a spf txt record for the www entry, and our gateway does spf
> checking, should i put allow or deny in the TXT record for the www server?

As long as there's never a MAIL FROM: foo@www.bar.com, you can put deny
in the spf record just like you did for kamomo above. However, if you
sometimes have a HELO www.bar.com and a MAIL FROM: <> (a bounce), spf
will check the HELO domain for spf records..

> I would think I could put deny in there since it does not send to the outside
> world. I have not reviewed the patch information or config information to
> determine if I need to do anything to allow mailproc to receive mail from
> www1, but not from the outside if @www1.

What patch are you referring to btw? Most patches allow you to set up a
whitelist / local policy for cases like this.


> As you can see I put the one spf TXT line for the domain in as per the wizard
> but then the wizard made a comment which confused me. It said:
>
> -----------------------------------
> So this should also appear in DNS. You may or may not be in charge of the DNS
> for these entries; if you are, add them.
>
> mailproc.sbbsnet.net. IN TXT "v=spf1 a -all"
>
> -------------------------------------
> does this go in the above forestoflives zone record (which would be out of
> zone data) and all other of our domains, or do I put this once in the sbbsnet
> zone record?

this one should be in sbbsnet.net zone of course, since that zone will
be used to look it up. It's for mailproc.sbbsnet.net to send bounces I
believe, which will usually be from something like
MAILER-DAEMON@mailproc.sbbsnet.net

Koen

--
K.F.J. Martens, Sonologic, http://www.sonologic.nl/
Networking, embedded systems, unix expertise, artificial intelligence.
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Re: Confused with a result from the wizard [ In reply to ]
On Mon August 9 2004 03:38 am, Koen Martens wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 08:36:41PM -0400, Jesse Weiss wrote:
> > hostname IN TXT "v=spf1 -all"
> >
> > so a real life situation from above would be
> >
> > kamomo A 64.113.39.8
> > kamomo TXT "v=spf1 -all"
> >
> > yes?
>
> Sounds reasonable.

good. thank you.


>
> > For specific reasons, any mail coming from website forms and destined to
> > our local pop server must use the form account@pop3.hosteddomain in the
> > to:, however the from is never from account@www1.sbbsnet.net or
> > account@www.hosteddomain, it is always a true email address of
> > account@hosteddomain. our web mailing scripts also use smtp auth with the
> > gateway since some are allowed to relay to their outside email address.
> > If i put a spf txt record for the www entry, and our gateway does spf
> > checking, should i put allow or deny in the TXT record for the www
> > server?
>
> As long as there's never a MAIL FROM: foo@www.bar.com, you can put deny
> in the spf record just like you did for kamomo above. However, if you
> sometimes have a HELO www.bar.com and a MAIL FROM: <> (a bounce), spf
> will check the HELO domain for spf records..
>

yes that does sometimes happen, especially with the weaker scripts that are
only allowed to send locally. To be honest, I really don't care if those are
dropped/lost. I still have not gotten around to making everyone change to our
more secure scripts yet. Caring for a network of this size can sometimes be
very time consuming.

> > I would think I could put deny in there since it does not send to the
> > outside world. I have not reviewed the patch information or config
> > information to determine if I need to do anything to allow mailproc to
> > receive mail from www1, but not from the outside if @www1.
>
> What patch are you referring to btw? Most patches allow you to set up a
> whitelist / local policy for cases like this.

Ok good. As I said I have not even reviewed the patching requirements or what
config functions they bring to the table. I put that last due to the amount
of work involved. We are running a highly modified qmail smtp server. Since
there are so many modifications I have done already, I am going to have to
manually apply the patching.

>
> > As you can see I put the one spf TXT line for the domain in as per the
> > wizard but then the wizard made a comment which confused me. It said:
> >
> > -----------------------------------
> > So this should also appear in DNS. You may or may not be in charge of the
> > DNS for these entries; if you are, add them.
> >
> > mailproc.sbbsnet.net. IN TXT "v=spf1 a -all"
> >
> > -------------------------------------
> > does this go in the above forestoflives zone record (which would be out
> > of zone data) and all other of our domains, or do I put this once in the
> > sbbsnet zone record?
>
> this one should be in sbbsnet.net zone of course, since that zone will
> be used to look it up. It's for mailproc.sbbsnet.net to send bounces I
> believe, which will usually be from something like
> MAILER-DAEMON@mailproc.sbbsnet.net
>
> Koen

Again, thank you for the clear and concise answers!


--

Jesse
"I wouldn't want to be Gamul, that's for sure!"
The Guild Chronicles:An Odyssey of Light

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