Mailing List Archive

So,

This is the heading of the article:


Apache SpamAssassin Leads A Growing List of Open-Source Projects
Taking Steps to Correct Instances of Racism and White Privilege


Using the word "blacklist" is racism. Does everyone get this! By
definition you ARE a "RACIST" and ARE "White Privilege[d]."

This is a political movement to blacklist (oooooohhhhhhh, I said it)
anyone who does not comply. We're no longer angry, we're "not excited,"
how generous.

The spamassassin leadership team are political hacks.

Eric

On 7/15/2020 5:24 PM, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
> All:
>
> We're getting some positive attention from the verbiage change.  See
> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kmcgrail_apache-spamassassin-leads-a-growing-list-activity-6689260331719520256-gMy7
> for a link to a Guardian Digital post about it.
>
> Anyway, I hope those not excited by the change will come around.  We are
> working hard to make it as painless as possible and we have gotten word
> that several tools and projects that integrate with SpamAssassin will
> follow suit.
>
> Regards,
>
> KAM
>
>

On 7/15/20 9:12 PM, Eric Broch wrote:
>
> So,
>
> This is the heading of the article:
>
>
> Apache SpamAssassin Leads A Growing List of Open-Source Projects
> Taking Steps to Correct Instances of Racism and White Privilege
>
>
> Using the word "blacklist" is racism. Does everyone get this! By
> definition you ARE a "RACIST" and ARE "White Privilege[d]."
>
> This is a political movement to blacklist (oooooohhhhhhh, I said it)
> anyone who does not comply. We're no longer angry, we're "not
> excited," how generous.
>
> The spamassassin leadership team are political hacks.
>

Don't let the door hit you on the way out, then.

Thomas

On 16/07/2020 09:24, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:

> All:
>
> We're getting some positive attention from the verbiage change. See
> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kmcgrail_apache-spamassassin-leads-a-growing-list-activity-6689260331719520256-gMy7
> for a link to a Guardian Digital post about it.
>
> Anyway, I hope those not excited by the change will come around. We are
> working hard to make it as painless as possible and we have gotten word
> that several tools and projects that integrate with SpamAssassin will
> follow suit.
>
> Regards,
>
> KAM

December 27 (our quietest time of year generally) this year has been
slated for our changeover to remove spamassassin from our network.

Our policies have long excluded using politically motivated companies,
organisations, equipment and software. you made this political, you do
not care for the opinions of others unless they agree with yours, so
adios amigos.

Noel Butler skrev den 2020-07-16 04:34:

> December 27 (our quietest time of year generally) this year has been
> slated for our changeover to remove spamassassin from our network.

+1

> Our policies have long excluded using politically motivated companies,
> organisations, equipment and software. you made this political, you do
> not care for the opinions of others unless they agree with yours, so
> adios amigos.

whats problem drinking coconut milk now ?, or even take another brik of
white chokolate from Ritter Sport ?, does it need to be orange to be
good ?, or black ?, maybe brown ?, is it political ?

where will you go if not using spamassassin ?

You're the ones who've moved, I've gone nowhere. You'll never run out of
words to censor. Soon you'll be offended by everything. Where will you
hide then. I don't know how you'll escape the planet when everyone and
everything offends you.

More importantly calling those racists who are not racists is
slander--bearing false witness against you neighbor--a violation of the
9th commandment. Instead of fearing God alone you adore the praise of
wicked men.

On 7/15/2020 8:21 PM, Thomas Cameron wrote:
>
> On 7/15/20 9:12 PM, Eric Broch wrote:
>>
>> So,
>>
>> This is the heading of the article:
>>
>>
>> Apache SpamAssassin Leads A Growing List of Open-Source Projects
>> Taking Steps to Correct Instances of Racism and White Privilege
>>
>>
>> Using the word "blacklist" is racism. Does everyone get this! By
>> definition you ARE a "RACIST" and ARE "White Privilege[d]."
>>
>> This is a political movement to blacklist (oooooohhhhhhh, I said it)
>> anyone who does not comply. We're no longer angry, we're "not
>> excited," how generous.
>>
>> The spamassassin leadership team are political hacks.
>>
>
> Don't let the door hit you on the way out, then.
>
> Thomas

On 16/07/2020 13:15, Benny Pedersen wrote:

> Noel Butler skrev den 2020-07-16 04:34:
>
>> December 27 (our quietest time of year generally) this year has been
>> slated for our changeover to remove spamassassin from our network.
>
> +1
>
>> Our policies have long excluded using politically motivated companies,
>> organisations, equipment and software. you made this political, you do
>> not care for the opinions of others unless they agree with yours, so
>> adios amigos.
>
> whats problem drinking coconut milk now ?, or even take another brik of white chokolate from Ritter Sport ?, does it need to be orange to be good ?, or black ?, maybe brown ?, is it political ?
>
> where will you go if not using spamassassin ?

are you really so naive to think that SA is the only product around, or
even the only free product around if your skimp?

PS when i was a kid, a long, VERY long time ago I tried coconut milk -
it was disgusting

I dont eat chocolate. I dont eat sugar filled lollies, or any of that
crap junk trash.

--
Kind Regards,

Noel Butler

This Email, including attachments, may contain legally privileged
information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright
protected under international law. You may not disseminate any part of
this message without the authors express written authority to do so. If
you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete
all copies of this message including attachments immediately.
Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost
by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message.

I guess they're going to go back to the yellowish tinged incandescent
bulbs too, since LEDs available today produce " white " light. They'll
have to change their story books as well, cant call it after "dark" or
"dark" night|skies|...

It's amazing how SOME Americans are quick to jump on bandwagons about
innocent terms are called, yet FAIL to do ANYTHING about their
population - even KIDS, getting slaughtered and gunned down nearly every
second day in mass shootings. but you only have to look at how they are
acting with COVID19 to know they have NFI about civil priorities.

No wonder the USA is the joke of the world - and its not all Trumps
fault <--- (jesus christ, I never thought I'd hear myself say that)

On 16/07/2020 13:37, Eric Broch wrote:

> You're the ones who've moved, I've gone nowhere. You'll never run out of words to censor. Soon you'll be offended by everything. Where will you hide then. I don't know how you'll escape the planet when everyone and everything offends you.
>
> More importantly calling those racists who are not racists is slander--bearing false witness against you neighbor--a violation of the 9th commandment. Instead of fearing God alone you adore the praise of wicked men.
>
> On 7/15/2020 8:21 PM, Thomas Cameron wrote:
> On 7/15/20 9:12 PM, Eric Broch wrote:
> Using the word "blacklist" is racism. Does everyone get this! By definition you ARE a "RACIST" and ARE "White Privilege[d]."
>
> This is a political movement to blacklist (oooooohhhhhhh, I said it) anyone who does not comply. We're no longer angry, we're "not excited," how generous.
>
> The spamassassin leadership team are political hacks.
> Don't let the door hit you on the way out, then.
>
> Thomas

--
Kind Regards,

Noel Butler

This Email, including attachments, may contain legally privileged
information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright
protected under international law. You may not disseminate any part of
this message without the authors express written authority to do so. If
you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete
all copies of this message including attachments immediately.
Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost
by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message.

Q: What did Marxists use to light their homes before candles?

A: Electrcity.



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On Jul 15, 2020, 9:53 PM, at 9:53 PM, Noel Butler <noel.butler@ausics.net> wrote:
>I guess they're going to go back to the yellowish tinged incandescent
>bulbs too, since LEDs available today produce " white " light. They'll
>have to change their story books as well, cant call it after "dark" or
>"dark" night|skies|...
>
>It's amazing how SOME Americans are quick to jump on bandwagons about
>innocent terms are called, yet FAIL to do ANYTHING about their
>population - even KIDS, getting slaughtered and gunned down nearly
>every
>second day in mass shootings. but you only have to look at how they are
>acting with COVID19 to know they have NFI about civil priorities.
>
>No wonder the USA is the joke of the world - and its not all Trumps
>fault <--- (jesus christ, I never thought I'd hear myself say that)
>
>On 16/07/2020 13:37, Eric Broch wrote:
>
>> You're the ones who've moved, I've gone nowhere. You'll never run out
>of words to censor. Soon you'll be offended by everything. Where will
>you hide then. I don't know how you'll escape the planet when everyone
>and everything offends you.
>>
>> More importantly calling those racists who are not racists is
>slander--bearing false witness against you neighbor--a violation of the
>9th commandment. Instead of fearing God alone you adore the praise of
>wicked men.
>>
>> On 7/15/2020 8:21 PM, Thomas Cameron wrote:
>> On 7/15/20 9:12 PM, Eric Broch wrote:
>> Using the word "blacklist" is racism. Does everyone get this! By
>definition you ARE a "RACIST" and ARE "White Privilege[d]."
>>
>> This is a political movement to blacklist (oooooohhhhhhh, I said it)
>anyone who does not comply. We're no longer angry, we're "not excited,"
>how generous.
>>
>> The spamassassin leadership team are political hacks.
>> Don't let the door hit you on the way out, then.
>>
>> Thomas
>
>--
>Kind Regards,
>
>Noel Butler
>
> This Email, including attachments, may contain legally privileged
>information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright
>protected under international law. You may not disseminate any part of
>this message without the authors express written authority to do so. If
>you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then
>delete
>all copies of this message including attachments immediately.
>Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost
>by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message.

On 20200715 19:34:00, Noel Butler wrote:
> On 16/07/2020 09:24, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
>
>> All:
>>
>> We're getting some positive attention from the verbiage change.  See
>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kmcgrail_apache-spamassassin-leads-a-growing-list-activity-6689260331719520256-gMy7
>> for a link to a Guardian Digital post about it.
>>
>> Anyway, I hope those not excited by the change will come around.  We are
>> working hard to make it as painless as possible and we have gotten word
>> that several tools and projects that integrate with SpamAssassin will
>> follow suit.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> KAM
>>
>
> December 27 (our quietest time of year generally) this year has been slated for
> our changeover to remove spamassassin from our network.
>
> Our policies have long excluded using politically motivated companies,
> organisations, equipment and software. you made this political, you do not care
> for the opinions of others unless they agree with yours, so adios amigos.

You can probably fork the project and go on running what exists now going
forward. That is something I am mulling doing for myself. I just have to ask
myself, which is more painful?

{o.o}

Tokenism is a big thing in politics, probably everywhere on this planet. Gotta
be seen as doing something, ya know. We need a third house in our legislature,
the House of Repeals that strikes out dumb laws hastily drafted to appease loud
mouths.

{o.o}

On 20200715 20:52:51, Noel Butler wrote:
> I guess they're going to go back to the yellowish tinged incandescent bulbs too,
> since LEDs available today produce " white " light. They'll have to change their
> story books as well, cant call it after "dark" or "dark" night|skies|...
>
>
> It's amazing how SOME Americans are quick to jump on bandwagons about innocent
> terms are called, yet FAIL to do ANYTHING about their population - even KIDS,
> getting slaughtered and gunned down nearly every second day in mass shootings.
> but you only have to look at how they are acting with COVID19 to know they have
> NFI about civil priorities.
>
> No wonder the USA is the joke of the world - and its not all Trumps fault  <---
> (jesus christ, I never thought I'd hear myself say that)
>
>
> On 16/07/2020 13:37, Eric Broch wrote:
>
>> You're the ones who've moved, I've gone nowhere. You'll never run out of words
>> to censor. Soon you'll be offended by everything. Where will you hide then. I
>> don't know how you'll escape the planet when everyone and everything offends you.
>>
>> More importantly calling those racists who are not racists is slander--bearing
>> false witness against you neighbor--a violation of the 9th commandment.
>> Instead of fearing God alone you adore the praise of wicked men.
>>
>> On 7/15/2020 8:21 PM, Thomas Cameron wrote:
>>>
>>> On 7/15/20 9:12 PM, Eric Broch wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Using the word "blacklist" is racism. Does everyone get this! By definition
>>>> you ARE a "RACIST" and ARE "White Privilege[d]."
>>>>
>>>> This is a political movement to blacklist (oooooohhhhhhh, I said it) anyone
>>>> who does not comply. We're no longer angry, we're "not excited," how generous.
>>>>
>>>> The spamassassin leadership team are political hacks.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Don't let the door hit you on the way out, then.
>>>
>>> Thomas
>
>
> --
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Noel Butler
>
> This Email, including attachments, may contain legally privileged information,
> therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under
> international law. You may not disseminate any part of this message without the
> authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message
> including attachments immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal
> privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this
> message.
>

Your LinkedIn post thanks the Guardian while hitting on us by hiding our lack of consent.

-------- Original Message --------
On 16 Jul 2020, 01:24, Kevin A. McGrail < kmcgrail@apache.org> wrote:
All:
We're getting some positive attention from the verbiage change. See
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kmcgrail_apache-spamassassin-leads-a-growing-list-activity-6689260331719520256-gMy7
for a link to a Guardian Digital post about it.
Anyway, I hope those not excited by the change will come around. We are
working hard to make it as painless as possible and we have gotten word
that several tools and projects that integrate with SpamAssassin will
follow suit.
Regards,
KAM
--
Kevin A. McGrail
KMcGrail@Apache.org
Member, Apache Software Foundation
Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171

You are a racist when you are not treating people equal on the basis of
the skin colour (or check definition in dictionary). Therefore anyone
associating people of darker colour with blacklist and lighter colour
with whitelist and associate this with in-equal treatment, is a racist.

No one can complain about people trying to change things for the better.
But lets be real, nothing you do here will make a difference. And I only
fear that you feel so good about yourself, and then ignorantly continue
upholding the very system that perpetuates race inequality.
Yes yes that will happen, you will not think about slavery or inequality
when you buy your next pair of shoes or apply for a loan at a bank. I do
hope the people that are advocating this blacklist/whitelist removal so
strongly, that they:

Don't buy shoes manufactured under slave like conditions.
Don't buy phones manufactured under slave like conditions.
Don't do business with companies that have executive teams that do not
resemble the diversity of the local population.
Don't buy products from companies with billionaires (look at your US
billionaires list, does not really resemble the diversity in your
country)
Don't watch any movies produced in hollywood
Don't put your kids in all white schools


PS. It is my opinion really pathetic to reference a news article where
you are mentioned. This type of change should come from the heart,
regardless what others are doing and saying. Now you look like some
youtuber begging for acknowledgement asking for likes.
To me you are more behaving like someone that follows the crowd without
thinking, and history has shown that tends to be very dangerous.






-----Original Message-----
To: users@spamassassin.apache.org
Subject: Re: Thanks to Guardian Digital & LinuxSecurity for the nice
post about SpamAssassin's upcoming change

So,

This is the heading of the article:


Apache SpamAssassin Leads A Growing List of Open-Source Projects Taking
Steps to Correct Instances of Racism and White Privilege





Using the word "blacklist" is racism. Does everyone get this! By
definition you ARE a "RACIST" and ARE "White Privilege[d]."

This is a political movement to blacklist (oooooohhhhhhh, I said it)
anyone who does not comply. We're no longer angry, we're "not excited,"
how generous.


The spamassassin leadership team are political hacks.

Eric


On 7/15/2020 5:24 PM, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:


All:

We're getting some positive attention from the verbiage change.
See
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kmcgrail_apache-spamassassin-leads-a
-growing-list-activity-6689260331719520256-gMy7
for a link to a Guardian Digital post about it.

Anyway, I hope those not excited by the change will come around.
We are
working hard to make it as painless as possible and we have gotten
word
that several tools and projects that integrate with SpamAssassin
will
follow suit.

Regards,

KAM

Have you looked at this rspamd? That has configuration file of 3000
lines and is sort all-inclusive solution. I think it performs quite
well.




-----Original Message-----
To: users@spamassassin.apache.org
Subject: Re: Thanks to Guardian Digital & LinuxSecurity for the nice
post about SpamAssassin's upcoming change

On 16/07/2020 09:24, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:

All:

We're getting some positive attention from the verbiage change.
See
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kmcgrail_apache-spamassassin-leads-a
-growing-list-activity-6689260331719520256-gMy7
for a link to a Guardian Digital post about it.

Anyway, I hope those not excited by the change will come around.
We are
working hard to make it as painless as possible and we have gotten
word
that several tools and projects that integrate with SpamAssassin
will
follow suit.

Regards,

KAM






December 27 (our quietest time of year generally) this year has been
slated for our changeover to remove spamassassin from our network.

Our policies have long excluded using politically motivated companies,
organisations, equipment and software. you made this political, you do
not care for the opinions of others unless they agree with yours, so
adios amigos.

>> It's amazing how SOME Americans are quick to jump on bandwagons

If you get older you will realize that this typical behaviour of an
average person, and you will only notice this if your thinking is above
average. Sad thing, having a system where the average person rules, one
can only conclude that this human race is going to fail inevitably.

The only people who really understood that the only way the persevere on
the long run, is to live in harmony in this world (keep ecological
balance). And those were the ones that got enslaved.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-25/dumb-dumber-scientific-proof-people-are-getting-stupider

And when are you going to phase out Liniux?

https://www.theregister.com/2020/07/13/linux_adopts_inclusive_language/

/Gaute G

tor. 16. jul. 2020 kl. 04:34 skrev Noel Butler <noel.butler@ausics.net>:

> On 16/07/2020 09:24, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
>
> All:
>
> We're getting some positive attention from the verbiage change. See
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kmcgrail_apache-spamassassin-leads-a-growing-list-activity-6689260331719520256-gMy7
> for a link to a Guardian Digital post about it.
>
> Anyway, I hope those not excited by the change will come around. We are
> working hard to make it as painless as possible and we have gotten word
> that several tools and projects that integrate with SpamAssassin will
> follow suit.
>
> Regards,
>
> KAM
>
>
> December 27 (our quietest time of year generally) this year has been
> slated for our changeover to remove spamassassin from our network.
>
> Our policies have long excluded using politically motivated companies,
> organisations, equipment and software. you made this political, you do not
> care for the opinions of others unless they agree with yours, so adios
> amigos.
>
>
>
>

* Kevin A. McGrail:

> We're getting some positive attention from the verbiage change.

Pluralis Majestatis, is it? ;-)

What you call "the nice post" follows the overall theme of the US
cultural imperialism you pushed in this thread. I see no mention in the
purely US-centric article that (a) people across the world have quite
different concepts of the connection between colours and racially
charged language, (b) changing a few terms in lieu of making meaningful
changes in how people treat each other will probably achieve nothing,
and so forth.

SpamAssassin is not a US-only venture. While you are patting yourself on
the back, hoping to perhaps gain a few contributors (which you are
patronising along the way, if you have not noticed), I think that you
will lose others who find your approach as arrogant and outright silly
as I do. It may be a good time to check on Rspamd again, although I find
the team-of-one approach unnerving.

I can't stand how many American right-wingers behave, especially Exhibit
A in the White House, but this is an issue where left-wing zeal causes
its own screw-ups. Having followed US politics since the Ford
administration, I am sad how things have turned out. We have a lot of
problems of our own here, but I am very glad that I don't have to live
in the US.

-Ralph

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020, jdow wrote:

> Tokenism is a big thing in politics, probably everywhere on this planet.
> Gotta be seen as doing something, ya know. We need a third house in our
> legislature, the House of Repeals that strikes out dumb laws hastily drafted
> to appease loud mouths.
>
> {o.o}

+1

--
John Hardin KA7OHZ http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/
jhardin@impsec.org FALaholic #11174 pgpk -a jhardin@impsec.org
key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The one political issue that strips all politicians bare is
individual gun rights.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Today: the 75th anniversary of the dawn of the Atomic Age

On 15 Jul 2020, at 20:34, Noel Butler <noel.butler@ausics.net> wrote:
> December 27 (our quietest time of year generally) this year has been slated for our changeover to remove spamassassin from our network.

Nose. Spite. Face.

Can you stop posting about this topic now?

--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Brain, but won't it go straight to my hips?!"

On 17/07/2020 05:35, @lbutlr wrote:

> On 15 Jul 2020, at 20:34, Noel Butler <noel.butler@ausics.net> wrote:
>
>> December 27 (our quietest time of year generally) this year has been slated for our changeover to remove spamassassin from our network.
>
> Nose. Spite. Face.
>
> Can you stop posting about this topic now?

I did 24 hours back wanker, but just for you, I'll continue it

--
Kind Regards,

Noel Butler

This Email, including attachments, may contain legally privileged
information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright
protected under international law. You may not disseminate any part of
this message without the authors express written authority to do so. If
you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete
all copies of this message including attachments immediately.
Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost
by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message.

On Friday 17 July 2020 at 00:58:05, Noel Butler wrote:

> I did 24 hours back wanker, but just for you, I'll continue it

I request that anyone with this attitude to the list, and to people on it, be
removed.


Antony.

--
"There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home."

- Ken Olsen, President of Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC, later consumed
by Compaq, later merged with HP)

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.

ahhh ye ol "your opinion differs from mine, so I want you gone"

yes, sums your type up rather nicely, desperate for approval and
pathetic...

On 17/07/2020 18:44, Antony Stone wrote:

> On Friday 17 July 2020 at 00:58:05, Noel Butler wrote:
>
>> I did 24 hours back wanker, but just for you, I'll continue it
>
> I request that anyone with this attitude to the list, and to people on it, be
> removed.
>
> Antony.

On Friday 17 July 2020 at 12:50:57, Noel Butler wrote:

> ahhh ye ol "your opinion differs from mine, so I want you gone"

No, I don't mind you having a different opinion, or even expressing it
reasonably, but the language and attitude towards other individuals which you
displayed in the comment below is not in my opinion acceptable on a mailing
list.

> yes, sums your type up rather nicely, desperate for approval and
> pathetic...
>
> On 17/07/2020 18:44, Antony Stone wrote:
> > On Friday 17 July 2020 at 00:58:05, Noel Butler wrote:
> >> I did 24 hours back wanker, but just for you, I'll continue it
> >
> > I request that anyone with this attitude to the list, and to people on
> > it, be removed.
> >
> > Antony.

--
Pavlov is in the pub enjoying a pint.
The barman rings for last orders, and Pavlov jumps up exclaiming "Damn! I
forgot to feed the dog!"

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.

On 17 Jul 2020, at 13:02, Antony Stone wrote:

> On Friday 17 July 2020 at 12:50:57, Noel Butler wrote:
>
>> ahhh ye ol "your opinion differs from mine, so I want you gone"
>
> No, I don't mind you having a different opinion, or even expressing it
> reasonably, but the language and attitude towards other individuals
> which you
> displayed in the comment below is not in my opinion acceptable on a
> mailing
> list.

The xkcd for this: https://xkcd.com/1357/

Btw. I am in full support of Antony here

>
>> yes, sums your type up rather nicely, desperate for approval and
>> pathetic...
>>
>> On 17/07/2020 18:44, Antony Stone wrote:
>>> On Friday 17 July 2020 at 00:58:05, Noel Butler wrote:
>>>> I did 24 hours back wanker, but just for you, I'll continue it
>>>
>>> I request that anyone with this attitude to the list, and to people
>>> on
>>> it, be removed.

Cheers,

Niels (who doesn’t care about amendments since he’s no US-citizen
but the essential statement of the comic still stands)

but your OK with your supporters making their sarcastic comments, lol
you're a joke, if you disagree with my posts by all means email the list
owner address and cry away if it makes you feel big, I wont lose any
sleep over it, especially now i've seen the political motives that
direct spamassassins direction.

On 17/07/2020 21:02, Antony Stone wrote:

> On Friday 17 July 2020 at 12:50:57, Noel Butler wrote:
>
>> ahhh ye ol "your opinion differs from mine, so I want you gone"
>
> No, I don't mind you having a different opinion, or even expressing it
> reasonably, but the language and attitude towards other individuals which you
> displayed in the comment below is not in my opinion acceptable on a mailing
> list.

On 16/07/2020 14:47, jdow wrote:

> You can probably fork the project and go on running what exists now going forward. That is something I am mulling doing for myself. I just have to ask myself, which is more painful?

Actually, might not have to reinvent the wheel, last time I looked at
rspamd was several years ago.

Since the politically motivated change in spamassassin was made public
last week, I reinstalled it in a dev lab. Running over the weekend,
tests showed rspamd has remarkably improved, 603% speed increase over
spamassassin (well it does run in C), and 18% more hit rates, when it
came to known false positives, it equalled spamassassin though.

Obviously before moving production over to it, I need to run it again
over a much longer period of time, but it looks promising, I'll see it
how goes over the next 4 weeks.

--

Regards,
Noel Butler

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> On Jul 19, 2020, at 10:12 PM, Noel Butler <noel.butler@ausics.net> wrote:
>
> On 16/07/2020 14:47, jdow wrote:
>
>>
>> You can probably fork the project and go on running what exists now going forward. That is something I am mulling doing for myself. I just have to ask myself, which is more painful?
>>
>>
>
> Actually, might not have to reinvent the wheel, last time I looked at rspamd was several years ago.
>
> Since the politically motivated change in spamassassin was made public last week, I reinstalled it in a dev lab. Running over the weekend, tests showed rspamd has remarkably improved, 603% speed increase over spamassassin (well it does run in C), and 18% more hit rates, when it came to known false positives, it equalled spamassassin though.
>
> Obviously before moving production over to it, I need to run it again over a much longer period of time, but it looks promising, I'll see it how goes over the next 4 weeks.
>

Yes, but what if they choose to use inclusive language? Then where do you go to avoid this oppression?
>
> --
>
> Regards,
> Noel Butler
>
> This Email, including attachments, may contain legally privileged information, therefore at all times remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate this message without the authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message.
>

Noel Butler skrev den 2020-07-20 04:12:

> Actually, might not have to reinvent the wheel, last time I looked at
> rspamd was several years ago.

bah

> Since the politically motivated change in spamassassin was made public
> last week, I reinstalled it in a dev lab. Running over the weekend,
> tests showed rspamd has remarkably improved, 603% speed increase over
> spamassassin (well it does run in C), and 18% more hit rates, when it
> came to known false positives, it equalled spamassassin though.

sure political jokes does not come to rspamd, and rspamd is well simple
to configure for a programmer have screwdrivers in the pocket, ucl is
way more simple then xml is, counting all the craping xml standard
programs does not help much to ones own needs make it even more
complicted to just do what spamassassin does

if rspamd is a succes, why not just use dspam, learn it bayes spam and
bayes ham, job done, its really so simple that i would try it in fuglu
and have it all done in python code

but this step will still not be done from me since i like to stay with
the spamassassin problem for ever :-)

> Obviously before moving production over to it, I need to run it again
> over a much longer period of time, but it looks promising, I'll see it
> how goes over the next 4 weeks.

rspamd is hmm let me say it a joke of we want something better then
spamassassin, we could just nok dokument what we want as a programmer
point of view, so we make our own problem reinventing the wheel, sadly

are you saying just becourcs rspamd is in c its much better then
spamassassin ?

On 20/07/2020 13:57, Benny Pedersen wrote:

> rspamd is hmm let me say it a joke of we want something better then spamassassin, we could just nok dokument what we want as a programmer point of view, so we make our own problem reinventing the

I have proved over 60 hours that it is insanely better, but, it would be
remiss of me not to conduct a larger, lengthy test before committing
staff resources to wiping spamassassin from our networks

> are you saying just becourcs rspamd is in c its much better then spamassassin ?

I love perl, I can code it in my sleep, and likely may have on many a
time, but everyone knows that C is many magnitudes faster.

--
Regards,
Noel Butler

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What about mailfromd? I have this. I am really surprised it is not in
default repo's. I also looked at rspamd, but I have a bit of a problem
with these thousands of lines of config. Also their approach towards
stats/graphics is 'old fashioned', who is programming that when you have
tools like grafana.

I have proposed to the mailfromd to make something for prometheus
metrics, also where you can add your own metrics in the config file, so
you can tune and graph your config on specific areas.




-----Original Message-----
From: Noel Butler [mailto:noel.butler@ausics.net]
Sent: maandag 20 juli 2020 4:13
To: users@spamassassin.apache.org
Subject: Re: Thanks to Guardian Digital & LinuxSecurity for the nice
post about SpamAssassin's upcoming change

On 16/07/2020 14:47, jdow wrote:


You can probably fork the project and go on running what exists now
going forward. That is something I am mulling doing for myself. I just
have to ask myself, which is more painful?







Actually, might not have to reinvent the wheel, last time I looked at
rspamd was several years ago.

Since the politically motivated change in spamassassin was made public
last week, I reinstalled it in a dev lab. Running over the weekend,
tests showed rspamd has remarkably improved, 603% speed increase over
spamassassin (well it does run in C), and 18% more hit rates, when it
came to known false positives, it equalled spamassassin though.

Obviously before moving production over to it, I need to run it again
over a much longer period of time, but it looks promising, I'll see it
how goes over the next 4 weeks.




--

Regards,
Noel Butler

This Email, including attachments, may contain legally privileged
information, therefore at all times remains confidential and subject to
copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate
this message without the authors express written authority to do so. If
you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete
all copies of this message including attachments immediately.
Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost
by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message.

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 15:41:43 +1000
Noel Butler wrote:


>
> I have proved over 60 hours that it is insanely better, but, it would
> be remiss of me not to conduct a larger, lengthy test before
> committing staff resources to wiping spamassassin from our networks
>
> > are you saying just becourcs rspamd is in c its much better then
> > spamassassin ?
>
> I love perl, I can code it in my sleep, and likely may have on many a
> time, but everyone knows that C is many magnitudes faster.


My understanding is that most SA cpu cycles are spent in regular
expression library code and other binary libraries, and so the perl
interpreter overhead is relatively small.

The author of rspamd cited two reasons for its being faster. One is
that it uses automatic shortcircuiting to avoid evaluating the
more expensive dependencies of meta-rules. The other is that perl
programmers tend to overuse regular expressions.

I'm a bit suspicious about some of the speedup figures quoted, and
whether rspamd was tested against an optimized and similarly
parameterized SA. It's very easy to make SA look bad.

> I'm a bit suspicious about some of the speedup figures quoted, and
whether rspamd was tested
> against an optimized and similarly parameterized SA. It's very easy to
make SA look bad.

I agree. I have even asked on the mailing list how many test rspamd does
and how I can configure it to do just one test. Both questions were left
unanswered. Have a look at this mailfromd it is really nice.

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 17:05:25 +0200
Marc Roos wrote:

>> I'm a bit suspicious about some of the speedup figures quoted, and
>> whether rspamd was tested against an optimized and similarly
>> parameterized SA. It's very easy to make SA look bad.
>
> I agree. I have even asked on the mailing list how many test rspamd
> does and how I can configure it to do just one test. Both questions
> were left unanswered.

rspamd is threaded so it should process a single message much faster
than SA. Whether it has better throughput under heavy load is a
different matter.

If it's still true that most cpu time is spent on evaluating rule
regexes then the throughput should be similar, with SA getting a modest
boost from sa-compile and rspamd getting a modest boost from
shortcircuiting out some subrules.


It wouldn't surprise me if the factor of 6 simply came from scanning
the test corpus one at a time on a 6 core cpu.

On 21/07/2020 01:05, Marc Roos wrote:

>> I'm a bit suspicious about some of the speedup figures quoted, and
> whether rspamd was tested
>
>> against an optimized and similarly parameterized SA. It's very easy to
> make SA look bad.
>
> I agree. I have even asked on the mailing list how many test rspamd does
> and how I can configure it to do just one test. Both questions were left
> unanswered. Have a look at this mailfromd it is really nice.

you did? I did'nt see it, the batch i put through it was hundreds of
thousands of messages. my month long test should yield about 30 million
msgs, be glad to let you know at the end of that.

I did nothing fancy since i'm not an rspamd expert.

--
Regards,
Noel Butler

This Email, including attachments, may contain legally privileged
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On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 20:25:58 +1000
Noel Butler wrote:

> On 21/07/2020 01:05, Marc Roos wrote:
>
> >> I'm a bit suspicious about some of the speedup figures quoted, and
> >>
> > whether rspamd was tested
> >
> >> against an optimized and similarly parameterized SA. It's very
> >> easy to
> > make SA look bad.
> >
> > I agree. I have even asked on the mailing list how many test rspamd
> > does and how I can configure it to do just one test. Both questions
> > were left unanswered. Have a look at this mailfromd it is really
> > nice.
>
> you did? I did'nt see it, the batch i put through it was hundreds of
> thousands of messages. my month long test should yield about 30
> million msgs, be glad to let you know at the end of that.

I'd missed that it was your testing. So when testing speed did you
measure throughput with enough concurrent tests and spamd child
processes to keep all the CPU cores fully occupied?

On 22/07/20 16:00, RW wrote:

>
> I'd missed that it was your testing. So when testing speed did you
> measure throughput with enough concurrent tests and spamd child
> processes to keep all the CPU cores fully occupied?

I have two VMs with same HW (2vCPU, 4GB RAM), one SA 3.4.4 and one
Rspamd 2.6, being fed by the same mail stream (20-30k mail/day).

Rspamd is, I'd say, more than 50% light on CPU and memory. And also
orders of magnitude quicker in doing checks. But to truly compare SA and
Rspamd you should run Rspamd with the SpamAssassin compatibility module
(https://rspamd.com/doc/modules/spamassassin.html) and have it load all
SA rules too.

--
Best regards,
Riccardo Alfieri

Spamhaus Technology
https://www.spamhaustech.com/

On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 14:11:31 +0000
Riccardo Alfieri wrote:

> On 22/07/20 16:00, RW wrote:
>
> >
> > I'd missed that it was your testing. So when testing speed did you
> > measure throughput with enough concurrent tests and spamd child
> > processes to keep all the CPU cores fully occupied?

> Rspamd is, I'd say, more than 50% light on CPU and memory.


Which implies that it's really only twice as fast in terms of
throughput. And I'm guessing that's on a lighter rule set.

This seems consistent with my expectation that the underlying engines
are of similar efficiency. A factor of two could easily be explained by
SA's huge historic rule cruft and other rule differences.


> But to truly compare SA
> and Rspamd you should run Rspamd with the SpamAssassin compatibility
> module (https://rspamd.com/doc/modules/spamassassin.html) and have it
> load all SA rules too.

The original claim made by the rspamd project was that it's much faster
on SA's own rules. I'm still not seeing any real evidence based on
measuring throughput with a meaningful methodology that involves full
core use on both tools.

I am wondering what grey list should be renamed...
--

Something benign like
"we're-bending-over-backwards-to-invent-offenses-that-we-can-remedy-a-shade-halfway-between-welcomelist-and-blocklist"

On 7/22/2020 8:36 PM, Olivier wrote:
> I am wondering what grey list should be renamed...

Maybelist?
Neutrallist?
Pcbalancedlist?





Sent via the Samsung Galaxy, powered by Cricket Wireless


-------- Original message --------
From: Olivier <Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th>
Date: 7/22/20 7:38 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: users@spamassassin.apache.org
Subject: Re: Thanks to Guardian Digital & LinuxSecurity for the nice post about SpamAssassin's upcoming change

I am wondering what grey list should be renamed...
--

DelayList would be my off the cuff thought. Grey isn't racially charged
but renaming it would be more descriptive on what it does. The SA project
doesn't have any greylisting functionality, that is usually the MTA.

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 22:37 Olivier <Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th> wrote:

> I am wondering what grey list should be renamed...
> --
>

On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 09:36 +0700, Olivier wrote:
> I am wondering what grey list should be renamed...

Ageist!


;-)

Martin

On Thursday 23 July 2020 at 04:36:41, Olivier wrote:

> I am wondering what grey list should be renamed...

Why - has the zombie population started complaining about racial slurs?


Antony.

--
"The future is already here. It's just not evenly distributed yet."

- William Gibson

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.

On Thu, 23 Jul 2020, Antony Stone wrote:

> On Thursday 23 July 2020 at 04:36:41, Olivier wrote:
>
>> I am wondering what grey list should be renamed...
>
> Why - has the zombie population started complaining about racial slurs?

You have just pissed off Oscar the gray geriatric grouch. ;)

This is the letter G brought to you by Oscar the grouch.

--
Dave Funk University of Iowa
<dbfunk (at) engineering.uiowa.edu> College of Engineering
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Sys_admin/Postmaster/cell_admin Iowa City, IA 52242-1527
#include <std_disclaimer.h>
Better is not better, 'standard' is better. B{