Mailing List Archive

Fredrik Lundh writes:
>> Define version_info to be a tuple (major, minor, micro, level); level
>> is a string "a2", "b1", "c1", or '' for a final release.
>maybe level should be chosen so that version_info for a final
>release is larger than version_info for the corresponding beta ?

'a2' < 'b1' < 'c1' < 'final'

--amk

Fredrik Lundh writes:
> maybe level should be chosen so that version_info for a final
> release is larger than version_info for the corresponding beta ?

I thought about that, but didn't like it; should it perhaps be
'final'? If the purpose is to simply make it increase monotonically
like sys.hexversion, why not just use sys.hexversion?


-Fred

--
Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fdrake at acm.org>
Corporation for National Research Initiatives

> Fredrik Lundh writes:
> > maybe level should be chosen so that version_info for a final
> > release is larger than version_info for the corresponding beta ?
>
> I thought about that, but didn't like it; should it perhaps be
> 'final'? If the purpose is to simply make it increase monotonically
> like sys.hexversion, why not just use sys.hexversion?

readability?

the sys.hexversion stuff isn't exactly obvious:

>>> dir(sys)
... 'hexversion' ...
>>> sys.hexversion
17170594

eh? is that version 1.71, or what?

"final" is okay, I think. better than "f0", at least ;-)

</F>

Fredrik Lundh writes:
> readability?

But hexversion retains the advantage that it's been there longer,
and that's just too hard to change at this point. (Guido didn't leave
the keys to his time machine...)

> the sys.hexversion stuff isn't exactly obvious:

I didn't say hexversion was pretty or that anyone liked it! Writing
the docs, version_info is a *lot* easier to explain.


-Fred

--
Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fdrake at acm.org>
Corporation for National Research Initiatives

>>>>> "FL" == Fredrik Lundh <effbot@telia.com> writes:

FL> maybe level should be chosen so that version_info for a final
FL> release is larger than version_info for the corresponding beta
FL> ?

Yes, absolutely. Please don't break the comparability of version_info
or the connection with the patchversion.h macros.

-Barry

>>>>> "AMK" == Andrew M Kuchling <akuchlin@mems-exchange.org> writes:

AMK> Fredrik Lundh writes:
>> Define version_info to be a tuple (major, minor, micro, level);
>> level is a string "a2", "b1", "c1", or '' for a final release.
>> maybe level should be chosen so that version_info for a final
>> release is larger than version_info for the corresponding beta
>> ?

AMK> 'a2' < 'b1' < 'c1' < 'final'

Another reason I don't like the strings:

'b9' > 'b10' :(

I can imagine a remote possibility of more than 9 pre-releases
(counting from 1), but not more than 15 (since PY_RELEASE_SERIAL has
to fit in 4 bits), so at the very least, make that string 'a02',
'a03', etc.

-Barry

Barry A. Warsaw writes:
> Yes, absolutely. Please don't break the comparability of version_info
> or the connection with the patchversion.h macros.

So I'm the only person here today who prefers the release level of a
final version to be '' instead of 'final'? Or did I miss all the
messages of enthusiastic support for '' from my screaming fans?


-Fred

--
Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fdrake at acm.org>
Corporation for National Research Initiatives

>>>>> "FL" == Fredrik Lundh <effbot@telia.com> writes:

FL> readability?

Yup.

FL> "final" is okay, I think. better than "f0", at least ;-)

And I think (but am not 100% positive) that once a final release comes
out, Guido stops incrementing the PY_RELEASE_SERIAL's and instead
starts incrementing PY_MICRO_VERSION. If that's not the case, then
it complicates things a bit.

-Barry

>>>>> "Fred" == Fred L Drake, Jr <fdrake@acm.org> writes:

Fred> I didn't say hexversion was pretty or that anyone liked
Fred> it! Writing the docs, version_info is a *lot* easier to
Fred> explain.

So is it easier to explain that the empty string means a final release
or that 'final' means a final release? :)

-Barry

Barry A. Warsaw writes:
> I can imagine a remote possibility of more than 9 pre-releases
> (counting from 1), but not more than 15 (since PY_RELEASE_SERIAL has
> to fit in 4 bits), so at the very least, make that string 'a02',
> 'a03', etc.

Doesn't this further damage the human readability of the value? I
thought that was an important reason to break it up from
sys.hexversion. (Note also that you're not just saying more than 9
pre-releases, but more than 9 at any one of alpha, beta, or release
candidate stages. 1-9 at each stage is already 27 pre-release
packages.)


-Fred

--
Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fdrake at acm.org>
Corporation for National Research Initiatives

> I can imagine a remote possibility of more than 9 pre-releases
> (counting from 1), but not more than 15 (since PY_RELEASE_SERIAL has
> to fit in 4 bits)

or rather, "I can imagine a remote possibility of more than 5 pre-releases
(counting from 1), but not more than 9 (since PY_RELEASE_SERIAL has to
fit in a single decimal digit"?

in the very unlikely case that I'm wrong, feel free to break the glass
and install the following patch:

#define PY_RELEASE_LEVEL_DESPAIR 0xD
#define PY_RELEASE_LEVEL_EXTRAMUNDANE 0xE
#define PY_RELEASE_LEVEL_FINAL 0xF /* Serial should be 0 here */

</F>

Barry A. Warsaw writes:
> And I think (but am not 100% positive) that once a final release comes
> out, Guido stops incrementing the PY_RELEASE_SERIAL's and instead
> starts incrementing PY_MICRO_VERSION. If that's not the case, then
> it complicates things a bit.

patchlevel.h includes a comment that indicates serial should be 0
for final releases.

> So is it easier to explain that the empty string means a final release
> or that 'final' means a final release? :)

I think it's the same; either is a special value. The only
significant advantage of 'final' is the monotonicity provided by
'final'. I'm not convinced that it's otherwise any better. It also
means to create a formatter version number from this that you need to
special-case the last item in sys.version_info.


-Fred

--
Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fdrake at acm.org>
Corporation for National Research Initiatives

>>>>> "Fred" == Fred L Drake, Jr <fdrake@acm.org> writes:

Fred> So I'm the only person here today who prefers the release
Fred> level of a final version to be '' instead of 'final'? Or
Fred> did I miss all the messages of enthusiastic support for ''
Fred> from my screaming fans?

I've blocked those messages at your mta, so you would't be fooled into
doing the wrong thing. I'll repost them to you, but only after you
change it back to 'final' means final. Then you can be rightfully
indignant at all of us losers who wanted it the other way, and caused
you all that extra work! :)

root-of-all-evil-ly y'rs,
-Barry

Barry A. Warsaw writes:
> I've blocked those messages at your mta, so you would't be fooled into
> doing the wrong thing. I'll repost them to you, but only after you

I don't mind that, just don't stop the groupies! ;)


-Fred

--
Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fdrake at acm.org>
Corporation for National Research Initiatives

>>>>> "Fred" == Fred L Drake, Jr <fdrake@acm.org> writes:

Fred> Doesn't this further damage the human readability of the
Fred> value?

A little, but it's a fine compromise between the various constraints.
Another way you could structure that tuple is to split the
PY_RELEASE_LEVEL and the PY_RELEASE_SERIAL. Make the former even more
readable if you want, and make the latter a real int. Thus Python
1.6a2 would have a sys.version_info() of (1, 6, 0, 'alpha', 2),
e.g. the form is:

(major, minor, micro, level, serial)

You can't use 'gamma' though because then you break comparability.
Maybe use 'candidate' instead? Sigh.

Fred> I thought that was an important reason to break it
Fred> up from sys.hexversion. (Note also that you're not just
Fred> saying more than 9 pre-releases, but more than 9 at any one
Fred> of alpha, beta, or release candidate stages. 1-9 at each
Fred> stage is already 27 pre-release packages.)

Well, Guido hisself must have thought that there was a remote
possibility of more than 9 releases at a particular level, otherwise
he'd have jammed PY_RELEASE_SERIAL in 3 bits. I mean, there's no
other possible explanation for his choices is there?! :)

-Barry

bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us writes:
> A little, but it's a fine compromise between the various constraints.
> Another way you could structure that tuple is to split the
> PY_RELEASE_LEVEL and the PY_RELEASE_SERIAL. Make the former even more
> readable if you want, and make the latter a real int. Thus Python
> 1.6a2 would have a sys.version_info() of (1, 6, 0, 'alpha', 2),
> e.g. the form is:
>
> (major, minor, micro, level, serial)

I've thought of this as well, and certainly prefer it to the 'a01'
solution.

> You can't use 'gamma' though because then you break comparability.
> Maybe use 'candidate' instead? Sigh.

Yeah.

> Well, Guido hisself must have thought that there was a remote
> possibility of more than 9 releases at a particular level, otherwise
> he'd have jammed PY_RELEASE_SERIAL in 3 bits. I mean, there's no
> other possible explanation for his choices is there?! :)

Clearly. I'll have to break his heart when I release 1.6a16 this
afternoon. ;)


-Fred

--
Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fdrake at acm.org>
Corporation for National Research Initiatives

BAW> Thus Python 1.6a2 would have a sys.version_info() of (1, 6, 0,
BAW> 'alpha', 2), e.g. the form is:

BAW> (major, minor, micro, level, serial)

BAW> You can't use 'gamma' though because then you break comparability.

Yeah, you can. Don't use 'final'. Use 'omega'... ;-)

Skip

>>>>> "Fred" == Fred L Drake, Jr <fdrake@acm.org> writes:

Fred> I don't mind that, just don't stop the groupies! ;)

Hey, take it from me, groupies are a dime a dozen. They ask you all
kinds of boring questions like what kind of strings you use (or how
fast your disk drives are).

It's the "gropies" you want.

'Course, tappin' away at a keyboard that only makes one kind of
annoying clicking sound and isn't midi-fied won't get you any gropies.
Even if you're an amazing hunk of a bass god, it's tough (so you know
I'm at a /severe/ disadvantage :)

-Barry

>>>>> "SM" == Skip Montanaro <skip@mojam.com> writes:

BAW> Thus Python 1.6a2 would have a sys.version_info() of (1, 6,
BAW> 0, 'alpha', 2), e.g. the form is:

BAW> (major, minor, micro, level, serial)

BAW> You can't use 'gamma' though because then you break
BAW> comparability.

SM> Yeah, you can. Don't use 'final'. Use 'omega'... ;-)

Or how 'bout:

"zats the last one yer gonna git, ya peons, now leave me ALONE"

?
-Barry