Mailing List Archive: wish list

wish list

Nov 4, 1999, 1:58 PM

Post #1 of 8 (2644 views)

I got the wish list below. Anyone care to comment on how close we are
on fulfilling some or all of this?

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

------- Forwarded Message

Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 20:26:54 +0700
From: "Claudio Ramón" <rmn70@hotmail.com>
To: guido@python.org

Hello,
I'm a python user (excuse my english, I'm spanish and...). I think it is a
very complete language and I use it in solve statistics, phisics,
mathematics, chemistry and biology problemns. I'm not an
experienced programmer, only a scientific with problems to solve.
The motive of this letter is explain to you a needs that I have in
the python use and I think in the next versions...
* GNU CC for Win32 compatibility (compilation of python interpreter and
"Freeze" utility). I think MingWin32 (Mummint Khan) is a good alternative
eviting the cygwin dll user.
* Add low level programming capabilities for system access and speed of code
fragments eviting the C-C++ or Java code use. Python, I think, must be a
complete programming language in the "programming for every body" philosofy.
* Incorporate WxWindows (wxpython) and/or Gtk+ (now exist a win32 port) GUI
in the standard distribution. For example, Wxpython permit an html browser.
It is very importan for document presentations. And Wxwindows and Gtk+ are
faster than tk.
* Incorporate a database system in the standard library distribution. To be
possible with relational and documental capabilites and with import facility
of DBASE, Paradox, MSAccess files.
* Incorporate a XML/HTML/Math-ML editor/browser with graphics capability (to
be possible with XML how internal file format). And to be possible with
Microsoft Word import export facility. For example, AbiWord project can be
an alternative but if lacks programming language. If we can make python the
programming language for AbiWord project...

Thanks.
Ramón Molina.
rmn70@hotmail.com

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------- End of Forwarded Message

Re: wish list [ In reply to ]

skip at mojam

Nov 4, 1999, 2:06 PM

Post #2 of 8 (2613 views)

Permalink

* Incorporate a database system in the standard library
distribution. To be possible with relational and documental
capabilites and with import facility of DBASE, Paradox, MSAccess
files.

I know Digital Creations has a dbase module knocking around there somewhere.
I hacked on it for them a couple years ago. You might see if JimF can
scrounge it up and donate it to the cause.

Skip Montanaro | http://www.mojam.com/
skip@mojam.com | http://www.musi-cal.com/
847-971-7098 | Python: Programming the way Guido indented...

Re: wish list [ In reply to ]

fdrake at acm

Nov 4, 1999, 2:08 PM

Post #3 of 8 (2618 views)

Permalink

Guido van Rossum writes:
> I got the wish list below. Anyone care to comment on how close we are
> on fulfilling some or all of this?

Claudio Ramón <rmn70@hotmail.com> wrote:
> * Incorporate WxWindows (wxpython) and/or Gtk+ (now exist a win32 port) GUI
> in the standard distribution. For example, Wxpython permit an html browser.
> It is very importan for document presentations. And Wxwindows and Gtk+ are
> faster than tk.

And GTK+ looks better, too. ;-)
None the less, I don't think GTK+ is as solid or mature as Tk.
There are still a lot of oddities, and several warnings/errors get
messages printed on stderr/stdout (don't know which) rather than
raising exceptions. (This is a failing of GTK+, not PyGTK.) There
isn't an equivalent of the Tk text widget, which is a real shame.
There are people working on something better, but it's not a trivial
project and I don't have any idea how its going.

> * Incorporate a database system in the standard library distribution. To be
> possible with relational and documental capabilites and with import facility
> of DBASE, Paradox, MSAccess files.

Doesn't sound like part of a core library really, though I could see
combining the Win32 extensions with the core package to produce a
single installable. That should at least provide access to MSAccess,
and possible the others, via ODBC.

> * Incorporate a XML/HTML/Math-ML editor/browser with graphics capability (to
> be possible with XML how internal file format). And to be possible with
> Microsoft Word import export facility. For example, AbiWord project can be
> an alternative but if lacks programming language. If we can make python the
> programming language for AbiWord project...

I think this would be great to have. But I wouldn't put the
editor/browser in the core. I would stick something like the
XML-SIG's package in, though, once that's better polished.

-Fred

--
Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fdrake@acm.org>
Corporation for National Research Initiatives

Re: wish list [ In reply to ]

jim at interet

Nov 4, 1999, 5:09 PM

Post #4 of 8 (2604 views)

Permalink

Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> I got the wish list below. Anyone care to comment on how close we are
> on fulfilling some or all of this?

> * GNU CC for Win32 compatibility (compilation of python interpreter and
> "Freeze" utility). I think MingWin32 (Mummint Khan) is a good alternative
> eviting the cygwin dll user.

I don't know what this means.

> * Add low level programming capabilities for system access and speed of code
> fragments eviting the C-C++ or Java code use. Python, I think, must be a
> complete programming language in the "programming for every body" philosofy.

I don't know what this means in practical terms either. I use
the C interface for this.

> * Incorporate WxWindows (wxpython) and/or Gtk+ (now exist a win32 port) GUI
> in the standard distribution. For example, Wxpython permit an html browser.
> It is very importan for document presentations. And Wxwindows and Gtk+ are
> faster than tk.

As a Windows user, I don't feel comfortable publishing GUI code
based on these tools. Maybe they have progressed and I should
look at them again. But I doubt the Python world is going to
standardize on a single GUI anyway.

Does anyone out there publish Windows Python code with a Windows
Python GUI? If so, what GUI toolkit do you use?

Jim Ahlstrom

Re: wish list [ In reply to ]

rushing at nightmare

Nov 5, 1999, 12:22 AM

Post #5 of 8 (2608 views)

Permalink

James C. Ahlstrom writes:
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > I got the wish list below. Anyone care to comment on how close we are
> > on fulfilling some or all of this?
>
> > * GNU CC for Win32 compatibility (compilation of python interpreter and
> > "Freeze" utility). I think MingWin32 (Mummint Khan) is a good alternative
> > eviting the cygwin dll user.
>
> I don't know what this means.

mingw32: 'minimalist gcc for win32'. it's gcc on win32 without trying
to be unix. It links against crtdll, so for example it can generate
small executables that run on any win32 platform. Also, an
alternative to plunking down money ever year to keep up with MSVC++

I used to use mingw32 a lot, and it's even possible to set up egcs to
cross-compile to it. At one point using egcs on linux I was able to
build a stripped-down python.exe for win32...

http://agnes.dida.physik.uni-essen.de/~janjaap/mingw32/

-Sam

Re: wish list [ In reply to ]

jim at interet

Nov 5, 1999, 7:04 AM

Post #6 of 8 (2602 views)

Permalink

Sam Rushing wrote:

> mingw32: 'minimalist gcc for win32'. it's gcc on win32 without trying
> to be unix. It links against crtdll, so for example it can generate

OK, thanks. But I don't believe this is something that
Python should pursue. Binaries are available for Windows
and Visual C++ is widely available and has a professional
debugger (etc.).

Jim Ahlstrom

Re: wish list [ In reply to ]

gstein at lyra

Nov 5, 1999, 3:19 PM

Post #7 of 8 (2611 views)

Permalink

On Fri, 5 Nov 1999, James C. Ahlstrom wrote:
> Sam Rushing wrote:
> > mingw32: 'minimalist gcc for win32'. it's gcc on win32 without trying
> > to be unix. It links against crtdll, so for example it can generate
>
> OK, thanks. But I don't believe this is something that
> Python should pursue. Binaries are available for Windows
> and Visual C++ is widely available and has a professional
> debugger (etc.).

If somebody is willing to submit patches, then I don't see a problem with
it. There are quite a few people who are unable/unwilling to purchase
VC++. People may also need to build their own Python rather than using the
prebuilt binaries.

Cheers,
-g

--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

Re: wish list [ In reply to ]

mal at lemburg

Nov 8, 1999, 2:33 AM

Post #8 of 8 (2612 views)

Permalink

Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> * GNU CC for Win32 compatibility (compilation of python interpreter and
> "Freeze" utility). I think MingWin32 (Mummint Khan) is a good alternative
> eviting the cygwin dll user.

I think this would be a good alternative for all those not having MS VC
for one reason or another. Since Mingw32 is free this might be an
appropriate solution for e.g. schools which don't want to spend lots
of money for VC licenses.

> * Add low level programming capabilities for system access and speed of code
> fragments eviting the C-C++ or Java code use. Python, I think, must be a
> complete programming language in the "programming for every body" philosofy.

Don't know what he meant here...

> * Incorporate WxWindows (wxpython) and/or Gtk+ (now exist a win32 port) GUI
> in the standard distribution. For example, Wxpython permit an html browser.
> It is very importan for document presentations. And Wxwindows and Gtk+ are
> faster than tk.

GUIs tend to be fast moving targets, better leave them out of the
main distribution.

> * Incorporate a database system in the standard library distribution. To be
> possible with relational and documental capabilites and with import facility
> of DBASE, Paradox, MSAccess files.

Database interfaces are usually way to complicated and largish for the standard
dist. IMHO, they should always be packaged separately. Note that simple
interfaces such as a standard CSV file import/export module would be
neat extensions to the dist.

> * Incorporate a XML/HTML/Math-ML editor/browser with graphics capability (to
> be possible with XML how internal file format). And to be possible with
> Microsoft Word import export facility. For example, AbiWord project can be
> an alternative but if lacks programming language. If we can make python the
> programming language for AbiWord project...

I'm getting the feeling that Ramon is looking for a complete
visual programming environment here. XML support in the standard
dist (faster than xmllib.py) would be nice. Before that we'd need solid builtin
Unicode support though...

--
Marc-Andre Lemburg
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