Mailing List Archive

an alternative language for CP4E, perhaps?
http://www.cobolscript.com/

"[COBOL's] just a language whose superiority for
developing certain types of modern systems has
been overlooked until now"

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well, why not? :-)

</F>
Re: an alternative language for CP4E, perhaps? [ In reply to ]
> http://www.cobolscript.com/
>
> "[COBOL's] just a language whose superiority for
> developing certain types of modern systems has
> been overlooked until now"

The whole site sort-of makes me wonder whether this is one big elaborate joke.
But if it is somebody put an incredible amount of work in it.

The funny thing is that the idea of using Cobol for web-programming _did_
initially strike me as a neat idea: because of the elaborate data descriptions
and report generation facilities you could conceivably use all that info to
automatically generate all the input forms and such. But they have apparently
done no such thing...

The timesheet example is, uhm, interesting. 1500 lines of code, with many
parameters hardcoded in the source. I'd be surprised if it would take more
than 100 lines in Python, with a lot more customizability too.
--
Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm
Re: an alternative language for CP4E, perhaps? [ In reply to ]
> X-Last-Band-Seen: Raggende Mannen afscheidsconcert (Paradiso, 4-10)
> X-Mini-Review: IK HEB HET OVERLEEFD! IK HEB HET OVERLEEFD! IK HEB HET
> OVERLEEFD!

Ach! Wish I was there!

> > http://www.cobolscript.com/
> >
> > "[COBOL's] just a language whose superiority for
> > developing certain types of modern systems has
> > been overlooked until now"

> The whole site sort-of makes me wonder whether this is one big
> elaborate joke. But if it is somebody put an incredible amount of
> work in it.

Definitely a joke. Try

http://www.cobolscript.com/csfaq.htm#question9

"One of the other advantages of COBOL is that COBOL file processing
statements are very simple, with no knowledge of disk head positioning
required."

But yes, an incredibly good one! Worth filling out the form on the
"contact us page" and seeing what they send back.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
Re: an alternative language for CP4E, perhaps? [ In reply to ]
[Guido, on http://www.cobolscript.com/]

> Definitely a joke. Try
>
> http://www.cobolscript.com/csfaq.htm#question9
>
> "One of the other advantages of COBOL is that COBOL file
> processing statements are very simple, with no knowledge of disk
> head positioning required."
>
> But yes, an incredibly good one! Worth filling out the form on
> the "contact us page" and seeing what they send back.

While funny, I can virtually guaruntee these people are serious.

It is a common misperception among mainframe/COBOL
types that C/Unix has *only* character I/O (which does not
exist in the former environment at all - even terminals are
block I/O). They regard this as a sign of their vast superiority.
(And I dearly wish that born-again "Windoze" bashers be
sentenced to work in this environment - they'll soon realize
how closely related Windows and Unix are).

I did a number of stints introducing client / server to Big Blue
shops. (Unix made it's entry *only* because RDBMS's ran on
them, and all these shops claimed they would dump Unix as
soon as these products worked right on big iron). I *always*
had an endless fight with the people who wanted to use
COBOL instead of C / C++ (on both the Unix boxes and the
PCs).

MicroFocus distributed a "white paper" comparing COBOL to
C that I came to know very, very well. It came in 4 sections:
- the Executive Summary said COBOL was vastly superior in
all respects
- the White Paper said COBOL was more maintainable
(translation - you can hire brown-nosing dorks in suits, instead
of geeks in T-shirts) and often had superior performance
- the Benchmark showed that C smoked COBOL in absolutely
everything except binary search (a COBOL builtin)
- the Appendix showed that the C code for "binary search"
was a very badly coded linear search.

But no shop had ever read past the Executive Summary.

And don't forget that there is probably more than one order-of-
magnitude more COBOL source out there than source in any
other (or maybe all other) language(s). All with no built-in date
type; and hardly ever using common date routines either
(calling external programs in COBOL is expensive, and
awkward, because all variables are global).

Y2K-compliant-by-omission-ly y'rs

- Gordon
Re: an alternative language for CP4E, perhaps? [ In reply to ]
Now I'm confused... I typed in the comment box:

Very good joke. ROFL.
Where do you guys find the
time and energy to do this!
:-)

and got this back:

Mr. van Rossum

Glad you took the time out of your busy schedule to berate us.
We must be doing something right! ;)

Chuck Shereda
Deskware, Inc.
www.deskware.com
www.cobolscript.com

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
Re: an alternative language for CP4E, perhaps? [ In reply to ]
On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, Guido van Rossum wrote:

> Now I'm confused... I typed in the comment box:
>
> [...]
> and got this back:
>
> Mr. van Rossum
>
> Glad you took the time out of your busy schedule to berate us.
> We must be doing something right! ;)
>
> Chuck Shereda
> Deskware, Inc.
> www.deskware.com
> www.cobolscript.com

Apparently deskware is a known, bona fide organization. Considering the
massive number of cobol programmers around, and despite how cumbersome the
prospect is (and with the advantage of factoring in the things gordon
said), i guess someone thinks there's leverage in making cobol a scripting
language. I think it's not so different than making interpreted versions
of C (but i'm not very C friendly).

Ken
klm@digicool.com
RE: an alternative language for CP4E, perhaps? [ In reply to ]
Concerning the possibility of cobolscript, i wrote:

> said), i guess someone thinks there's leverage in making cobol a
scripting
> language. I think it's not so different than making interpreted
versions
> of C (but i'm not very C friendly).

After posting i thought this might come off as more ignorantly bigoted
than i meant for it to seem:-) I was trying to say that C doesn't seem
very well suited to scripting/running interpreted, like cobol - not that
C is as fraught with ancient and awkward design as cobol (seems).

Sigh.

Ken
klm@digicool.com