Mailing List Archive

> Paul Prescod sent the following note to the XML-SIG mailing list.
> Thoughts?

I don't know any of the acronyms, and I'm busy writing a funding
proposal plus two talks for the Monterey conference, so I don't have
any thoughts to spare at the moment. Perhaps someone could present
the case with some more background info? (It does sounds intriguing,
but then again I'm not sure how many people *really* need to parse XML
-- it doesn't strike me as something of the same generality as regular
expressions yet.)

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

"Andrew M. Kuchling" wrote:
>
> Paul Prescod sent the following note to the XML-SIG mailing list.
> Thoughts?
>

When I brought up some ideas for adding a separate validation mechanism
for PyExpat, some folks suggested that I should look at some other C
libraries, including one from the ILU folks and some other one
that I can't remember the name of off hand. Should we (used loosely ;)
look into the other libraries before including expat in the Python dist?

Jim

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Guido van Rossum writes:
>any thoughts to spare at the moment. Perhaps someone could present
>the case with some more background info? (It does sounds intriguing,

Paul is probably suggesting this so that Python comes with a fast,
standardized XML parser out of the box. On the other hand, where do
you draw the line? Paul suggests including PyExpat and easySAX (a
small SAX implementation), but why not full SAX, and why not DOM?

My personal leaning is that we can get more bang for the buck by
working on the Distutils effort, so that installing a package like
PyExpat becomes much easier, rather than piling more things into the
core distribution.

--
A.M. Kuchling http://starship.python.net/crew/amk/
The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to
sleep under the bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.
-- Anatole France

Andrew> My personal leaning is that we can get more bang for the buck by
Andrew> working on the Distutils effort, so that installing a package
Andrew> like PyExpat becomes much easier, rather than piling more things
Andrew> into the core distribution.

Amen to that. See Guido's note and my response regarding soundex in the
Doc-SIG. Perhaps you could get away with a very small core distribution
that only contained the stuff necessary to pull everything else from the net
via http or ftp...

Skip

Recently, Skip Montanaro <skip@mojam.com> said:
>
> Andrew> My personal leaning is that we can get more bang for the buck by
> Andrew> working on the Distutils effort, so that installing a package
> Andrew> like PyExpat becomes much easier, rather than piling more things
> Andrew> into the core distribution.
>
> Amen to that. See Guido's note and my response regarding soundex in the
> Doc-SIG. Perhaps you could get away with a very small core distribution
> that only contained the stuff necessary to pull everything else from the net
> via http or ftp...

I don't know whether this subject belongs on the python-dev list (is
there a separate distutils list?), but let's please be very careful
with this. The Perl people apparently think that their auto-install
stuff is so easy to use that if you find a tool on the net that needs
Perl they'll just give you a few incantations you need to build the
"correct" perl to run the tool, but I've never managed to do so. My
last try was when I spent 2 days to try and get the perl-based Palm
software for unix up and running. With various incompatilble versions
of perl installed in /usr/local by the systems staff and knowing
nothing about perl I had to give up at some point, because it was
costing far more time (and diskspace:-) than the whole thing was
worth.

Something like mailman is (afaik) easy to install for non-pythoneers
because it only depends on a single, well-defined Python distribution.
--
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Skip> Amen to that. See Guido's note and my response regarding soundex
Skip> in the Doc-SIG. Perhaps you could get away with a very small core
Skip> distribution that only contained the stuff necessary to pull
Skip> everything else from the net via http or ftp...

Jack> I don't know whether this subject belongs on the python-dev list
Jack> (is there a separate distutils list?), but let's please be very
Jack> careful with this. The Perl people apparently think that their
Jack> auto-install stuff is so easy to use ...

I suppose I should have added a <0.5 wink> to my note. Still, knowing what
Guido does and doesn't feel comfortable with in the core distribution would
be a good start at seeing where we might like the core to wind up.

Skip Montanaro | http://www.mojam.com/
skip@mojam.com | http://www.musi-cal.com/~skip/
518-372-5583

[large vs small distributions]

[Jack Jansen]
> I don't know whether this subject belongs on the python-dev list (is
> there a separate distutils list?), but let's please be very careful
> with this. [and recounts his problems with Perl]

I must say the idea of a minimal distribution sounds very appealing. But
then I consider that Guido never got me to even try Tk until he put it into
the std Windows distribution, and I've never given anyone any code that
won't work with a fresh-from-the-box distribution either. FrankS's snappy
"batteries included" wouldn't carry quite the same punch if it got reduced
to "coupons for batteries hidden in the docs" <wink>.

OTOH, I've got about as much use for XML as MarkH has for continuations
<twist>, and here-- as in many other places --we've been saved so far by
Guido's good judgment about what goes in & what stays out.

So it's a good thing he can't ever resign this responsibility <wink>.

if-20%-of-users-need-something-i'd-include-it-else-not-ly y'rs - tim