Mailing List Archive

topological "closeness" (RE: Web o' Wonder)
Michael Dillon's Web o' Wonder scenario keys on the ability of smart servers
to do an application level re-direction of load to a topographically more
appropriate server. Some of our customer's sites are doing a fair job of
this by weighting DNS responses to geographically dispersed sites which,
hopefully, are topographically dispersed.

>Seems to me that this scenario would also benefit from a tool and database
>that could determine topological "closeness" even if it doesn't need to
>generate filter lists.
>If this scenario were easier to implement it could reduce the load of the
>major exchange points by encouraging traffic to stay closer to the network
>periphery.

The CACHE research efforts (see: http://www.nlanr.net and others) indicates
that even greater reductions would be obtained if NSP/ISPs increase use of
caches for www. Individual campus statistics, the NLANR prototypes, and
statistics from CACHE sites deployed internationally suggest that
orders-of-magnitude reductions in external network access [i.e. our backbone
load] could be achieved.

I am implementing a CACHE simply to improve on-net customer satisfaction. I
expect the operational costs to be much less than the equivilent backbone or
transit costs. If it has a side effect of reducting meet point traffic, then
the entire net benefits.

I wonder, how many nets would implement such as cache if the effect would be
to reduce meet point traffic by orders-of-magnitude?

..mike..
Mike Trest, ATMNET Voice: 619 643-1805
5440 Morehouse Drive Fax: 619 643-1901
San Diego, CA 92121 Pager: 619 960-9070

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Re: topological "closeness" (RE: Web o' Wonder) [ In reply to ]
On Mon, 13 May 1996, Mike Trest wrote:

> I am implementing a CACHE simply to improve on-net customer satisfaction. I
> expect the operational costs to be much less than the equivilent backbone or
> transit costs. If it has a side effect of reducting meet point traffic, then
> the entire net benefits.

Doesn't this require reconfiguring the customer's browsers to point at a
proxy?

Michael Dillon Voice: +1-604-546-8022
Memra Software Inc. Fax: +1-604-546-3049
http://www.memra.com E-mail: michael@memra.com

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Re: topological "closeness" (RE: Web o' Wonder) [ In reply to ]
>On Mon, 13 May 1996, Mike Trest wrote:
>> I am implementing a CACHE simply to improve on-net customer satisfaction. I
>> expect the operational costs to be much less than the equivilent backbone or
>> transit costs. If it has a side effect of reducting meet point traffic, then
>> the entire net benefits.
>
>Doesn't this require reconfiguring the customer's browsers to point at a
>proxy?

Yes. Initial customer reaction is, at first, hesitant. However, when they
try it an see *DRAMTIC* improvements in response times. This is predicated
on the "closeness" of the cache relative to dragging the stuff over the
whole world.

Mike Trest, ATMNET Voice: 619 643-1805
5440 Morehouse Drive Fax: 619 643-1901
San Diego, CA 92121 Pager: 619 960-9070

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Re: topological "closeness" (RE: Web o' Wonder) [ In reply to ]
Original message <2.2.32.19960513194819.00692964@pop3.atmnet.net>
From: Mike Trest <trest@atmnet.net>
Date: May 13, 12:48
Subject: Re: topological "closeness" (RE: Web o' Wonder)
>
> >On Mon, 13 May 1996, Mike Trest wrote:
> >> I am implementing a CACHE simply to improve on-net customer satisfaction. I
> >> expect the operational costs to be much less than the equivilent backbone or
> >> transit costs. If it has a side effect of reducting meet point traffic, then
> >> the entire net benefits.
> >
> >Doesn't this require reconfiguring the customer's browsers to point at a
> >proxy?
>
> Yes. Initial customer reaction is, at first, hesitant. However, when they
> try it an see *DRAMTIC* improvements in response times. This is predicated
> on the "closeness" of the cache relative to dragging the stuff over the
> whole world.
>
> Mike Trest, ATMNET Voice: 619 643-1805
> 5440 Morehouse Drive Fax: 619 643-1901
> San Diego, CA 92121 Pager: 619 960-9070
>
>-- End of excerpt from Mike Trest


Installing a cache proxy also means adding yet another thing to the list
of "I wish I wasn't running one of these because some day I'll be in court
over this". I'm already unhappy that there isn't adequate legal protection
for me if/when I run a news server, and you're suggesting that I start keeping
local disk copies of all the {illegal, copyrighted, trade secrets} information
that's on the Web, TOO?

When your site gets raided by the Secret Service and they grab your cache
disks and take them home and run keyword searches on them, you're screwed.

As soon as some nice legislation gets passed to protect me, the ISP, when
I run a cache, I'll put one in and help solve the bandwidth problem. Saying
"the network will break without cache servers" isn't a valid defense to
charges of posession of illegal and/or copyrighted material.

-matthew kaufman
matthew@scruz.net

ps. Yes, if for some reason I ever get some time off of running an ISP myself,
I'm very likely to spend a lot of my time helping to make sure that the
legal situation for people like ISPs improves significantly.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Re: topological "closeness" (RE: Web o' Wonder) [ In reply to ]
On Mon, 13 May 1996, Mike Trest wrote:

|} Yes. Initial customer reaction is, at first, hesitant. However, when
|} they try it an see *DRAMTIC* improvements in response times. This is
|} predicated on the "closeness" of the cache relative to dragging the
|} stuff over the whole world.

There is definitely a benefit to the customer once the data is stored on
the cache. However, in order to scale at a reasonable cost one would
probably want to build a hierarchy in the caching servers.

With or without a hierarchy of caches (such as local area and network
border caches); the first user to request data through the cache will be
penalized with an additional delay not present in direct access.


-jh-

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Re: topological "closeness" (RE: Web o' Wonder) [ In reply to ]
At 03:04 PM 5/13/96 -0700, Matthew Kaufman wrote:

>As soon as some nice legislation gets passed to protect me, the ISP, when
>I run a cache, I'll put one in and help solve the bandwidth problem. Saying
>"the network will break without cache servers" isn't a valid defense to
>charges of posession of illegal and/or copyrighted material.
>
>-matthew kaufman
> matthew@scruz.net

Yep, its much cheaper for me to buy another ds-3 or so than to worry about
legal reprecussssions from proxying. This is something that has to be fixed.

Justin Newton * You have to change just to stay
Internet Architect * caught up.
Erol's Internet Services *

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -