Mailing List Archive

> [...]
> that USWest, SISNA (who now claims to be the 3rd largest ISP/NSP and still
> have only a T1 to MCI, and claim that is a DS3) and all these other
> people who think that they are connected to the internet back bone.
> [...]

In Farmington, New Mexico, SISNA uses compressing DSU's on each side of
their 56K line to their main office. They claim their 56K line is a
"T1-speed" line.

Being in local competition with them, that bugs me more than the "250MB"
tape drives that are only 120MB!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Rosenberg | The Four Corner's Finest Internet Access
Chief System Administrator | kevin@cyberport.com
CyberPort Station | http://www.cyberport.com

> [...]
> that USWest, SISNA (who now claims to be the 3rd largest ISP/NSP and still
> have only a T1 to MCI, and claim that is a DS3) and all these other
> people who think that they are connected to the internet back bone.
> [...]

In Farmington, New Mexico, SISNA uses compressing DSU's on each side of
their 56K line to their main office. They claim their 56K line is a
"T1-speed" line.

Being in local competition with them, that bugs me more than the "250MB"
tape drives that are only 120MB!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Rosenberg | The Four Corner's Finest Internet Access
Chief System Administrator | kevin@cyberport.com
CyberPort Station | http://www.cyberport.com

On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Kevin Rosenberg wrote:

> In Farmington, New Mexico, SISNA uses compressing DSU's on each side of
> their 56K line to their main office. They claim their 56K line is a
> "T1-speed" line.

And all the sites here in Utah, as Salt lake is the Main Link,
they use 56k links and MUX and De-MUX all the 28.8 modems, which gives
them no TCP/IP accross the link, no resending of lost packets, and than
they say they can put 50 dial-ups on that line... Oh well.

Christian Nielsen
Vyzynz International Inc. cnielsen@vii.com,CN46,KB7HAP
Phone 801-568-0999 Fax 801-568-0953
Private Email - Christian@Nielsen.Net BOFH - cnielsen@one.dot PS :)

Sue them under truth is advertisements laws.

--vadim

> So please someon,e please tell me I am correct in saying to all these
>not so bright people that there really is not an 'Internet Backbone'
>that USWest, SISNA (who now claims to be the 3rd largest ISP/NSP and
>still have only a T1 to MCI, and claim that is a DS3) and all these
>other people who think that they are connected to the internet back
>bone.

Hang on one second, Christian. SISNA, as well as a couple of your very
close neighbors, all subscribe to the odd end of that same DS3 and ALL
call it THEIRS and THEIRS ALONE!! Some blithering idiots call it fiber.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but GW only has that DS3 cranked out to
about 18Mb, right?

When in doubt traceroute.

To answer the question without being a bitter sod because I'm just as
pissed at these arrogant #%@&ers for lying through their teeth (isn't that
what business is about?), used to be (way back when glass was sand and
Ethernet was king), the term "backbone" implied you were connected to at
least one of the major IXes AND HAD FULL PEERING. This technicality was a
verifyable way of saying that ALL your traffic went the shortest route
possible to its destination, REGARDLESS if you were a customer or not,
because NOBODY filtered you out.

These days, the BYU marketing twits have it stuck in slo-mo that
"backbone" means MCI, Sprint, AnyoneElse Inc or BestISP-USA, and you know
what the sad part is? People eat it up. You have no idea what we go
through trying to educate people that NAP connections PLUS NSP connections
equals better reliability than a T-1 through SmallAdISP who's connected to
someone recently termed "backbone" by Idiots On The Web Magazine (April
issue, page 3248).

I'm with ya 100% However, the realist inside remembers people local to
you and me with big stinky mouths that are still in business Nationwide
for some stupid reason, and that makes me realize that people like that
will never go away. The silver lining is that customers will eventually
realize what "good" really is, and that's when it'll be time to put up or
shut up.

Biting dogs on this side, barking dogs on that side.



Carl

Cogito Ergo Amicrosoft
And, BTW, dear reader, don't CC me and the bloody list / group too!

> And all the sites here in Utah, as Salt lake is the Main Link,
> they use 56k links and MUX and De-MUX all the 28.8 modems, which gives
> them no TCP/IP accross the link, no resending of lost packets, and than
> they say they can put 50 dial-ups on that line... Oh well.

I'm not sure if they are MUXing and DeMUXing here, but they do have
18 modems on one 56K line. I wonder where they learned their arithmetic?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Rosenberg | The Four Corner's Finest Internet Access
Chief System Administrator | kevin@cyberport.com
CyberPort Station | http://www.cyberport.com

> Ok, I am really getting sick of hearing, I am connected to 'the
> Internet Backbone' We are connected to the Internet Backbone so we are
> better than X and Y put together.

We have a local, new, competitor who generally lies out his ass and also says
'We are the Internet backbone. Only we can offer you 100% Full Bandwidth'.
They have a T1 to a provider with a T1 to MCI and a T1 to AGIS.

Of course, they claim to have 3 T3s and they claim that MAE-East an
unimportant private exchange point between AT&T and Sprint.

And they solicit our customers, sigh.

And someone with 2 T1s to Sprint has been saying "We are *the* Internet
Backbone in South Jersey".

> I guess this is what happens when you get back from Interop and
> here all these people, uh they start with USWEST in their name, tell me
> and everyone else, We are connected to The Internet Backbone.
>
> So please someon,e please tell me I am correct in saying to all
> these not so bright people that there really is not an 'Internet Backbone'
> that USWest, SISNA (who now claims to be the 3rd largest ISP/NSP and still
> have only a T1 to MCI, and claim that is a DS3) and all these other
> people who think that they are connected to the internet back bone.

Everyone (of importance) agrees that in order to claim you're a backbone
you have to (now, not a year ago) be connected to at least 2 public NAPs/MAEs
and have at least one circuit that runs at DS3 or higher speed.

> Well, thanks for all your help. because I wanna be an isp :) Now
> where did I put that Lart.

I'm not sure how much of the NANOG community reads alt.sysadmin.recovery,
but I'd recommend it to all... (Lart is a sysadmin term meaning Luser
Attitude Readjustment Tool).

> Christian Nielsen
> Vyzynz International Inc. cnielsen@vii.com,CN46,KB7HAP
> Phone 801-568-0999 Fax 801-568-0953
> Private Email - Christian@Nielsen.Net BOFH - cnielsen@one.dot PS :)

Avi

On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Avi Freedman wrote:

> We have a local, new, competitor who generally lies out his ass and also says
> 'We are the Internet backbone. Only we can offer you 100% Full Bandwidth'.
> They have a T1 to a provider with a T1 to MCI and a T1 to AGIS.

I guess you could get that in writting from him and than sue him
when there is a problem, ie not getting 100%. I know of an FTP site that
could fill that up :)

> Of course, they claim to have 3 T3s and they claim that MAE-East an
> unimportant private exchange point between AT&T and Sprint.

Well, having a T3 is really no big deal, or having fiber. Lets
see, we run fiber in our office, so we fiber to the net.

> And they solicit our customers, sigh.

The bad thing about AS's, Internic, etc. Everyone knows who your
customers are :(

> And someone with 2 T1s to Sprint has been saying "We are *the* Internet
> Backbone in South Jersey".

*sigh* I guess this goes on everywhere.

I guess that the only way to be the 'winner' in this market is to
be truthfull to the customers. One of the ISPs in Utah has NO tech
support to turn on new customers at this time, and they have a T3 to
sprint, :( And one of our customers who is going to them, they cut our
price by 75% is about to be cut off. And they say the Law of the Harvest
is not true.

Sad internet.

On another note, in routing in the internet, it talks about if
you are having more than a 2% packet loss, you need to get it fixed. Well
we are seeing over 20% at some places.. And the Internet is going well?
Also, the Utah REP, based on Dave Segiels Phoenix REP, will be up this
week for anyone in the Utah Area looking for a place to connect.

Christian Nielsen
Vyzynz International Inc. cnielsen@vii.com,CN46,KB7HAP
Phone 801-568-0999 Fax 801-568-0953
Private Email - Christian@Nielsen.Net BOFH - cnielsen@one.dot PS :)

On Fri, 5 Apr 1996 00:25:47 -0500 (EST) Avi Freedman wrote:
>We have a local, new, competitor who generally lies out his ass and also says
>'We are the Internet backbone. Only we can offer you 100% Full Bandwidth'.
>They have a T1 to a provider with a T1 to MCI and a T1 to AGIS.
>
>Of course, they claim to have 3 T3s and they claim that MAE-East an
>unimportant private exchange point between AT&T and Sprint.
>
>And they solicit our customers, sigh.
>
>And someone with 2 T1s to Sprint has been saying "We are *the* Internet
>Backbone in South Jersey".

I think every area and country has their liars and charletons. What you
say is nothing new. You just have to keep plowing ahead and maintain
a high level of service and connectivity and users will stay with you.
Those that switch will come back after the FBNs (Fly By Nights), turn
bellyup.

>Avi
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hank Nussbacher Manager, Internet Technology Programs
Telephone: +972 3 6978852 Vnet: HANK at TELVM1
Fax: +972 3 6978115 Internet: hank@ibm.net.il
----------------------------------------------------------------------
IBM Israel
2, Weizmann St.
Tel Aviv 61336 ====== ======= === ===
http://www.ibm.net.il/ ====== ======== ==== ====
Dialup registration: 177-022-3993 == == == ==== ====
Company services: 03-6978663 == ====== == === ==
Internet sales fax: 03-6978115 == == === == = ==
Enquiries: info@ibm.net.il ====== ======== === ===
Technical support: noc@ibm.net.il ====== ======= === ===
----------------------------------------------------------------------