Mailing List Archive: Replacement for Atom Motherboard

Replacement for Atom Motherboard

Mar 8, 2024, 12:57 AM

Post #1 of 10 (368 views)

For the last 10 years or so my MythTV setup has been a combined
back/frontend running on an Intel Atom motherboard with NVidia graphics.
Inputs are a pair of external USB DVBt sticks, storage is a couple of SATA
drives and the whole lot sits inside an Antec Fusion multimedia case. The
case is mostly a pig-ugly monstrosity but it has a pretty front panel with
a LCD display and it looks good in my TV cabinet where you can't see the
rest of it.

The point of this post is that I think the Atom motherboard is getting long
in the tooth now and increasingly vulnerable to sudden death syndrome; I'm
also wary that at some point a software upgrade could fail because some
part of the hardware is not longer supported - so I'm looking for a
replacement.

Ideally I'd like something exactly the same but newer. that is:

Combined Frontend/Backend.
Silent (in the huge Antec case the Atom is easy to cool with a big slow
turning FAN).
Low Power, which I think means hardware video acceleration.
Fits inside the Antec case.

Is there such a board?

I've been looking at:
- Raspberry PI. The connections would be a bit messy and I'm not sure if
I'd need a second PI/Firestick etc for the Frontend, but I think I could
get it to work.
- Some flavour of Intel NUC. There seems to be a lot of choice and I'm not
sure if hardware video acceleration is available, which means that CPU
performance and cooling might need managing. I seem to have a bit of a
blind spot with motherboards and am wary of buying one that either won't
play video smoothly or uses significantly more power than my existing setup.
- Some super low power motherboard and a Pi/Firestick/etc for the frontend.

Thanks for any advice.

Re: Replacement for Atom Motherboard [ In reply to ]

jfabernathy at gmail

Mar 8, 2024, 2:16 AM

Post #2 of 10 (366 views)

Permalink

On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 3:59?AM David Watkins <watkinshome@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> For the last 10 years or so my MythTV setup has been a combined back/frontend running on an Intel Atom motherboard with NVidia graphics. Inputs are a pair of external USB DVBt sticks, storage is a couple of SATA drives and the whole lot sits inside an Antec Fusion multimedia case. The case is mostly a pig-ugly monstrosity but it has a pretty front panel with a LCD display and it looks good in my TV cabinet where you can't see the rest of it.
>
> The point of this post is that I think the Atom motherboard is getting long in the tooth now and increasingly vulnerable to sudden death syndrome; I'm also wary that at some point a software upgrade could fail because some part of the hardware is not longer supported - so I'm looking for a replacement.
>
> Ideally I'd like something exactly the same but newer. that is:
>
> Combined Frontend/Backend.
> Silent (in the huge Antec case the Atom is easy to cool with a big slow turning FAN).
> Low Power, which I think means hardware video acceleration.
> Fits inside the Antec case.
>
> Is there such a board?
>
> I've been looking at:
> - Raspberry PI. The connections would be a bit messy and I'm not sure if I'd need a second PI/Firestick etc for the Frontend, but I think I could get it to work.
> - Some flavour of Intel NUC. There seems to be a lot of choice and I'm not sure if hardware video acceleration is available, which means that CPU performance and cooling might need managing. I seem to have a bit of a blind spot with motherboards and am wary of buying one that either won't play video smoothly or uses significantly more power than my existing setup.
> - Some super low power motherboard and a Pi/Firestick/etc for the frontend.
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>

You could use a Pi4/5, but not sure you'd be happy with the video
performance, comm flagging speed, or compression. If you went this
way using a FireTV 4K Max as a frontend solves the remote issues and
you get the best picture if you use Leanfront on the FireTV. A PI 4
could easily handle the backend part.

I have a NUC as a combo for my RV. It's an ASrock 1165G7. You don't
get or need video acceleration outside of the Iris graphic in the 11th
Gen Core i7. It have an M2.nvme 1T stick and a 1TB SSD. It has a fan
but you only hear it if you are compiling Mythtv or gaming. I like
that it's compact and has lots of connections and built-in wifi and
bluetooth. However, I still use it mainly as a backend in the TV
because I have to have the 2 FireTV sticks (den and bedroom) for
Netflix, also. I also think Leanfront is the best picture
particularly on a 4K UHD TV.

If you end up with FireTVs for frontends, you can get the new fanless
N100 Intel PCs made by everyone. Some say the graphics are good.

The N100 is more expensive than a PI but not as expensive as a main
steam NUC. I like the Fanless part.

Jim A
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Re: Replacement for Atom Motherboard [ In reply to ]

mythtv at corky

Mar 8, 2024, 3:07 AM

Post #3 of 10 (366 views)

Permalink

On 2024-03-08 10:16, James Abernathy wrote:
> You could use a Pi4/5, but not sure you'd be happy with the video
> performance, comm flagging speed, or compression. If you went this
> way using a FireTV 4K Max as a frontend solves the remote issues and
> you get the best picture if you use Leanfront on the FireTV. A PI 4
> could easily handle the backend part.

I have an nVidia Ion frontend, great playback quality, but recently
failed due to the Realtek 98168 lan port failing. I had a Pi4 (1GB RAM)
and tried it out as a frontend with the mythtv-light deb.
It's fine for most of the stuff I watch (H.264 progressive), but really
struggles with MPEG2 even with an ethernet cable. I've ordered a Pi5
with 8GB as that seems a simpler way forward than trying to diagnose the
Realtek issue.
Sad about saying goodbye to the frontend, but even with Debian stable
the software churn and headache of both nVidia and Realtek non-free is
harder than Raspberries and some ansible scripts.

Cheers,
Tim.
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Re: Replacement for Atom Motherboard [ In reply to ]

mikep at randomtraveller

Mar 8, 2024, 3:16 AM

Post #4 of 10 (366 views)

Permalink

On 08/03/2024 11:07, TimP wrote:
>
>
> On 2024-03-08 10:16, James Abernathy wrote:
>> You could use a Pi4/5, but not sure you'd be happy with the video
>> performance, comm flagging speed, or compression. If you went this
>> way using a FireTV 4K Max as a frontend solves the remote issues and
>> you get the best picture if you use Leanfront on the FireTV. A PI 4
>> could easily handle the backend part.
>
> I have an nVidia Ion frontend, great playback quality, but recently failed due to the Realtek 98168
> lan port failing. I had a Pi4 (1GB RAM) and tried it out as a frontend with the mythtv-light deb.
> It's fine for most of the stuff I watch (H.264 progressive), but really struggles with MPEG2 even
> with an ethernet cable. I've ordered a Pi5 with 8GB as that seems a simpler way forward than trying
> to diagnose the Realtek issue.
> Sad about saying goodbye to the frontend, but even with Debian stable the software churn and
> headache of both nVidia and Realtek non-free is harder than Raspberries and some ansible scripts.
>
Wiht regard to the Realtek NIC problem, Debian have partially given in and on 12 (Bookworm) some
non-free drivers are included automatically, including NICs and CPU firmware. Since going from 11 to
12 I have had no need to add the 'non-free' repository to my apt lists.

I could not comment on the nVidia side, though. I did have nVidia front-ends but with motherboard
turnover they are now almost all Intel chipsets. YMMV.

--

Mike Perkins

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Re: Replacement for Atom Motherboard [ In reply to ]

rcrernst at gmail

Mar 8, 2024, 6:50 AM

Post #5 of 10 (362 views)

Permalink

On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 9:59?AM David Watkins <watkinshome@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ideally I'd like something exactly the same but newer. that is:
>
> Combined Frontend/Backend.
> Silent (in the huge Antec case the Atom is easy to cool with a big slow
> turning FAN).
> Low Power, which I think means hardware video acceleration.
> Fits inside the Antec case.
>
> Is there such a board?
>
>
If you want to keep the Antec case, you can replace the motherboard only.
The following CPUs (and example boards) are sufficient to
decode mpeg2, h264, h265 video streams in 4k resolution.
The Intel N100 can decode AV1 video as well.
ALL CPUs use the internal graphic unit "Intel UHD Graphics (iGPU)".

Intel Celeron J4125
https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/J4125-ITX/
4 SATA interfaces

Intel Pentium Silver J5040
https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/J5040-ITX/
4 SATA interfaces

Intel N100
https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/N100M/
1x M.2/M-Key (PCIe 3.0 x2), 2 SATA interfaces

Regards,
Roland

Re: Replacement for Atom Motherboard [ In reply to ]

mikep at randomtraveller

Mar 8, 2024, 10:16 AM

Post #6 of 10 (358 views)

Permalink

On 08/03/2024 14:50, Roland Ernst wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 9:59?AM David Watkins <watkinshome@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Ideally I'd like something exactly the same but newer. that is:
>>
>> Combined Frontend/Backend.
>> Silent (in the huge Antec case the Atom is easy to cool with a big slow
>> turning FAN).
>> Low Power, which I think means hardware video acceleration.
>> Fits inside the Antec case.
>>
>> Is there such a board?
>>
>>
> If you want to keep the Antec case, you can replace the motherboard only.
> The following CPUs (and example boards) are sufficient to
> decode mpeg2, h264, h265 video streams in 4k resolution.
> The Intel N100 can decode AV1 video as well.
> ALL CPUs use the internal graphic unit "Intel UHD Graphics (iGPU)".
>
> Intel Celeron J4125
> https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/J4125-ITX/
> 4 SATA interfaces
>
> Intel Pentium Silver J5040
> https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/J5040-ITX/
> 4 SATA interfaces
>
> Intel N100
> https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/N100M/
> 1x M.2/M-Key (PCIe 3.0 x2), 2 SATA interfaces
>
I have a couple of ASRock motherboards in use, though not for mythtv. Specifically, two which use
the heatsinks in your first two examples (one is a J4125-ITX). The major drawback for these is the
poor airflow design. If you look carefully, one of the memory slots is /across/ the end of the fins,
and it is always that slot which has to be filled first!

Fortunately for me mine are in boxes which have fans blowing directly down on them so no problem. I
/have/ previously put one of these in a 1U case and it was not a good experience. It got relegated.

If you want something passively cooled I would suggest the third option, which looks much more
sensible. That looks as if the airflow should come from the side (at the top in the photo), where
the power supply in a normal case would be, but it is low profile enough that any direction of flow
should be adequate.

--

Mike Perkins

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Re: Replacement for Atom Motherboard [ In reply to ]

jharbestonus at gmail

Mar 8, 2024, 10:26 AM

Post #7 of 10 (358 views)

Permalink

>
> Ideally I'd like something exactly the same but newer. that is:
>
> Combined Frontend/Backend.
> Silent (in the huge Antec case the Atom is easy to cool with a big slow turning FAN).
> Low Power, which I think means hardware video acceleration.
> Fits inside the Antec case.
>
> Is there such a board?
>
> I've been looking at:
> - Raspberry PI. The connections would be a bit messy and I'm not sure if I'd need a second PI/Firestick etc for the Frontend, but I think I could get it to work.
> - Some flavour of Intel NUC. There seems to be a lot of choice and I'm not sure if hardware video acceleration is available, which means that CPU performance and cooling might need managing. I seem to have a bit of a blind spot with motherboards and am wary of buying one that either won't play video smoothly or uses significantly more power than my existing setup.
> - Some super low power motherboard and a Pi/Firestick/etc for the frontend.
>

I have used NUC like mini pcs that are available on amazon for around $150 or so. They are typically N100 intel processors with 8-16 GB, 512GBNVME, and slots for an SSD/NVME internally.

They work well for me, in fact I am using one of them now, with an N95 intel processor.

Regards

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Re: Replacement for Atom Motherboard [ In reply to ]

jam at tigger

Mar 9, 2024, 1:03 AM

Post #8 of 10 (354 views)

Permalink

On Friday, March 8, 2024 6:16:32 PM AWST James Abernathy wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 3:59?AM David Watkins <watkinshome@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > For the last 10 years or so my MythTV setup has been a combined back/frontend running on an Intel Atom motherboard with NVidia graphics. Inputs are a pair of external USB DVBt sticks, storage is a couple of SATA drives and the whole lot sits inside an Antec Fusion multimedia case. The case is mostly a pig-ugly monstrosity but it has a pretty front panel with a LCD display and it looks good in my TV cabinet where you can't see the rest of it.
> >
> > The point of this post is that I think the Atom motherboard is getting long in the tooth now and increasingly vulnerable to sudden death syndrome; I'm also wary that at some point a software upgrade could fail because some part of the hardware is not longer supported - so I'm looking for a replacement.
> >
> > Ideally I'd like something exactly the same but newer. that is:
> >
> > Combined Frontend/Backend.
> > Silent (in the huge Antec case the Atom is easy to cool with a big slow turning FAN).
> > Low Power, which I think means hardware video acceleration.
> > Fits inside the Antec case.
> >
> > Is there such a board?
> >
> > I've been looking at:
> > - Raspberry PI. The connections would be a bit messy and I'm not sure if I'd need a second PI/Firestick etc for the Frontend, but I think I could get it to work.
> > - Some flavour of Intel NUC. There seems to be a lot of choice and I'm not sure if hardware video acceleration is available, which means that CPU performance and cooling might need managing. I seem to have a bit of a blind spot with motherboards and am wary of buying one that either won't play video smoothly or uses significantly more power than my existing setup.
> > - Some super low power motherboard and a Pi/Firestick/etc for the frontend.
> >
> > Thanks for any advice.
> >
>
>
> You could use a Pi4/5, but not sure you'd be happy with the video
> performance, comm flagging speed, or compression. If you went this
> way using a FireTV 4K Max as a frontend solves the remote issues and
> you get the best picture if you use Leanfront on the FireTV. A PI 4
> could easily handle the backend part.

Jim please wax lyrical
I've been trying to use a pi5 as a backend
When it works it works beautifully, smooth and cores (htop) not busy

But I've had a stream of errors:

My SATA ssd (sumsung) in a usb (jmicron) enclosure suddenly loses connection and wont reconnect until reboot
Mariadb looses eg storage group settings
Record a program on a single channel on a single mux
records 5 min (one show)
records 10 min to end (another show)
[recorded] shows nothing related to the show !!

Are my funnies hardware issues?
I'm booting and running on a m2

So far I have not been sucessful - I want multipe partitions
. Flash m2
. GParted in a m2 enclosure on another machine
everything is greyed (resize etc)

So I need to contemplate about a BE on RaPi5

James

>
> I have a NUC as a combo for my RV. It's an ASrock 1165G7. You don't
> get or need video acceleration outside of the Iris graphic in the 11th
> Gen Core i7. It have an M2.nvme 1T stick and a 1TB SSD. It has a fan
> but you only hear it if you are compiling Mythtv or gaming. I like
> that it's compact and has lots of connections and built-in wifi and
> bluetooth. However, I still use it mainly as a backend in the TV
> because I have to have the 2 FireTV sticks (den and bedroom) for
> Netflix, also. I also think Leanfront is the best picture
> particularly on a 4K UHD TV.
>
> If you end up with FireTVs for frontends, you can get the new fanless
> N100 Intel PCs made by everyone. Some say the graphics are good.
>
> The N100 is more expensive than a PI but not as expensive as a main
> steam NUC. I like the Fanless part.
>
> Jim A
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>

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Re: Replacement for Atom Motherboard [ In reply to ]

watkinshome at gmail

Mar 9, 2024, 2:16 AM

Post #9 of 10 (353 views)

Permalink

Thanks to all for the suggestions - lots to think and I'll probably go for
the NM100 motherboard. I hadn't spotted that range of ASRock boards and
they seem like a good replacement for my current Atom.

I'm still tempted to play with a Pi or Firestick as a frontend but I'll do
that for fun without the stress of needing to get it into 'production'.

It's great that there's so much activity and good advice on this list.

D

On Sat, 9 Mar 2024 at 09:05, jam <jam@tigger.ws> wrote:

> On Friday, March 8, 2024 6:16:32 PM AWST James Abernathy wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 3:59?AM David Watkins <watkinshome@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > For the last 10 years or so my MythTV setup has been a combined
> back/frontend running on an Intel Atom motherboard with NVidia graphics.
> Inputs are a pair of external USB DVBt sticks, storage is a couple of SATA
> drives and the whole lot sits inside an Antec Fusion multimedia case. The
> case is mostly a pig-ugly monstrosity but it has a pretty front panel with
> a LCD display and it looks good in my TV cabinet where you can't see the
> rest of it.
> > >
> > > The point of this post is that I think the Atom motherboard is getting
> long in the tooth now and increasingly vulnerable to sudden death syndrome;
> I'm also wary that at some point a software upgrade could fail because some
> part of the hardware is not longer supported - so I'm looking for a
> replacement.
> > >
> > > Ideally I'd like something exactly the same but newer. that is:
> > >
> > > Combined Frontend/Backend.
> > > Silent (in the huge Antec case the Atom is easy to cool with a big
> slow turning FAN).
> > > Low Power, which I think means hardware video acceleration.
> > > Fits inside the Antec case.
> > >
> > > Is there such a board?
> > >
> > > I've been looking at:
> > > - Raspberry PI. The connections would be a bit messy and I'm not sure
> if I'd need a second PI/Firestick etc for the Frontend, but I think I could
> get it to work.
> > > - Some flavour of Intel NUC. There seems to be a lot of choice and
> I'm not sure if hardware video acceleration is available, which means that
> CPU performance and cooling might need managing. I seem to have a bit of a
> blind spot with motherboards and am wary of buying one that either won't
> play video smoothly or uses significantly more power than my existing setup.
> > > - Some super low power motherboard and a Pi/Firestick/etc for the
> frontend.
> > >
> > > Thanks for any advice.
> > >
> >
> >
> > You could use a Pi4/5, but not sure you'd be happy with the video
> > performance, comm flagging speed, or compression. If you went this
> > way using a FireTV 4K Max as a frontend solves the remote issues and
> > you get the best picture if you use Leanfront on the FireTV. A PI 4
> > could easily handle the backend part.
>
> Jim please wax lyrical
> I've been trying to use a pi5 as a backend
> When it works it works beautifully, smooth and cores (htop) not busy
>
> But I've had a stream of errors:
>
> My SATA ssd (sumsung) in a usb (jmicron) enclosure suddenly loses
> connection and wont reconnect until reboot
> Mariadb looses eg storage group settings
> Record a program on a single channel on a single mux
> records 5 min (one show)
> records 10 min to end (another show)
> [recorded] shows nothing related to the show !!
>
> Are my funnies hardware issues?
> I'm booting and running on a m2
>
> So far I have not been sucessful - I want multipe partitions
> . Flash m2
> . GParted in a m2 enclosure on another machine
> everything is greyed (resize etc)
>
> So I need to contemplate about a BE on RaPi5
>
> James
>
>
> >
> > I have a NUC as a combo for my RV. It's an ASrock 1165G7. You don't
> > get or need video acceleration outside of the Iris graphic in the 11th
> > Gen Core i7. It have an M2.nvme 1T stick and a 1TB SSD. It has a fan
> > but you only hear it if you are compiling Mythtv or gaming. I like
> > that it's compact and has lots of connections and built-in wifi and
> > bluetooth. However, I still use it mainly as a backend in the TV
> > because I have to have the 2 FireTV sticks (den and bedroom) for
> > Netflix, also. I also think Leanfront is the best picture
> > particularly on a 4K UHD TV.
> >
> > If you end up with FireTVs for frontends, you can get the new fanless
> > N100 Intel PCs made by everyone. Some say the graphics are good.
> >
> > The N100 is more expensive than a PI but not as expensive as a main
> > steam NUC. I like the Fanless part.
> >
> > Jim A
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> > http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> > http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> > MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
> >
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>

Re: Replacement for Atom Motherboard [ In reply to ]

jfabernathy at gmail

Mar 9, 2024, 4:08 AM

Post #10 of 10 (353 views)

Permalink

On Sat, Mar 9, 2024 at 4:05?AM jam <jam@tigger.ws> wrote:

> Jim please wax lyrical
> I've been trying to use a pi5 as a backend
> When it works it works beautifully, smooth and cores (htop) not busy
>
> But I've had a stream of errors:
>
> My SATA ssd (sumsung) in a usb (jmicron) enclosure suddenly loses connection and wont reconnect until reboot
> Mariadb looses eg storage group settings
> Record a program on a single channel on a single mux
> records 5 min (one show)
> records 10 min to end (another show)
> [recorded] shows nothing related to the show !!
>
> Are my funnies hardware issues?
> I'm booting and running on a m2
>
> So far I have not been sucessful - I want multipe partitions
> . Flash m2
> . GParted in a m2 enclosure on another machine
> everything is greyed (resize etc)
>
> So I need to contemplate about a BE on RaPi5
>
> James

I can't help with RPI 5. I don't have one. The RPI4 works fine with
the exception of video playback quality and Comm flagging performance.
Makes a good backend without commflag and transcoding. In the past I
was able to record 4 shows at the same time on a RPI4 backend while
watching another show that was previously recorded.

I'm strictly a remote backend and FireTV/Google TV frontend guy now.

Jim A
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