Mailing List Archive: Fire Stick 4k Max v2 vs. 4k v1, and LeanFront vs. MythTV Full

Fire Stick 4k Max v2 vs. 4k v1, and LeanFront vs. MythTV Full

Oct 22, 2023, 7:32 AM

Post #1 of 8 (252 views)

Hi folks,

I recently was able to acquire a Fire Stick 4k Max v2 device, and am now
able to compare differences between this newest 4k Fire Stick and the
original 4k Fire Stick.

When it comes to LeanFront, I see no difference whatsoever. So if
you're living in the LeanFront world, I see no reason to upgrade to a
newer 4K device. Other than perhaps if you are seeing contention in the
5GHz WiFi spectrum, and you have a 6GHz 6E network. This upgrade would
free up some WiFi spectrum assuming your device is in an area of your
place where 6GHz is usable. (Ideally not through walls, from what I hear)

Now, when it comes to the "full" MythTV Android build, I *can* see a
difference with this new hardware. With pretty much in all of the video
playback settings, the video seems to play back "fine". What is
definitely noticeable is that the deinterlacing is significantly worse
than what I see with LeanFront. With LeanFront, the quality is at least
as good as, if not better than, my combined frontend/backend system with
dedicated Nvidia video output.

The wiki guidance
<https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Android#Amazon_Fire_TV_Stick_4K> is notably
outdated compared to the options I see in the client.

While I think I've tried most of the combinations of playback settings,
the recurring theme was that the quality was obviously worse than
LeanFront. Which raises some questions for me:

- Shouldn't LeanFront and the full Android client be leveraging the same
playback settings/capability? That is, while the UI is obviously
different, shouldn't both frontends be providing the same playback
mechanism/quality?

- What is the actual ideal combination of settings for playback in the
"full" Android MythTV frontend? And also:
- Why aren't these settings configured by default?
- If the MythTV wiki is not the go-to place for finding up-to-date
MythTV guidance, what is?

Thanks!
-WD
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Re: Fire Stick 4k Max v2 vs. 4k v1, and LeanFront vs. MythTV Full [ In reply to ]

mythtv at mythqml

Oct 22, 2023, 8:04 AM

Post #2 of 8 (252 views)

Permalink

On 22/10/2023 15:32, Will Dormann wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I recently was able to acquire a Fire Stick 4k Max v2 device, and am
> now able to compare differences between this newest 4k Fire Stick and
> the original 4k Fire Stick.
>
> When it comes to LeanFront, I see no difference whatsoever. So if
> you're living in the LeanFront world, I see no reason to upgrade to a
> newer 4K device. Other than perhaps if you are seeing contention in
> the 5GHz WiFi spectrum, and you have a 6GHz 6E network. This upgrade
> would free up some WiFi spectrum assuming your device is in an area of
> your place where 6GHz is usable. (Ideally not through walls, from what
> I hear)
>
> Now, when it comes to the "full" MythTV Android build, I *can* see a
> difference with this new hardware. With pretty much in all of the
> video playback settings, the video seems to play back "fine". What is
> definitely noticeable is that the deinterlacing is significantly worse
> than what I see with LeanFront. With LeanFront, the quality is at
> least as good as, if not better than, my combined frontend/backend
> system with dedicated Nvidia video output.
>
> The wiki guidance
> <https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Android#Amazon_Fire_TV_Stick_4K> is
> notably outdated compared to the options I see in the client.
>
> While I think I've tried most of the combinations of playback
> settings, the recurring theme was that the quality was obviously worse
> than LeanFront. Which raises some questions for me:
>
> - Shouldn't LeanFront and the full Android client be leveraging the
> same playback settings/capability? That is, while the UI is obviously
> different, shouldn't both frontends be providing the same playback
> mechanism/quality?
>
> - What is the actual ideal combination of settings for playback in the
> "full" Android MythTV frontend? And also:
> - Why aren't these settings configured by default?
> - If the MythTV wiki is not the go-to place for finding up-to-date
> MythTV guidance, what is?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
> -WD
>

Just a quick heads up regarding the FireTV Sticks. I've heard from what
I believe to be a legit source that Amazon, as part of their never
ending battle to lock down their devices, are starting to push an update
that actively removes some side loaded apps. It's not clear if it is all
apps or just some they are going after but Amazon has always been clear
that they do not support side loading apps. I think it's all part of
their effort to lock down the sticks like their recent attempt to
prevent you changing the home screen so they can push their paid for
content on you etc.

Paul H.

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Re: Fire Stick 4k Max v2 vs. 4k v1, and LeanFront vs. MythTV Full [ In reply to ]

bishoptf at gmail

Oct 22, 2023, 8:20 AM

Post #3 of 8 (251 views)

Permalink

On Sun, Oct 22, 2023, 10:07?AM Paul Harrison <mythtv@mythqml.net> wrote:

> On 22/10/2023 15:32, Will Dormann wrote:
>
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I recently was able to acquire a Fire Stick 4k Max v2 device, and am
> > now able to compare differences between this newest 4k Fire Stick and
> > the original 4k Fire Stick.
> >
> > When it comes to LeanFront, I see no difference whatsoever. So if
> > you're living in the LeanFront world, I see no reason to upgrade to a
> > newer 4K device. Other than perhaps if you are seeing contention in
> > the 5GHz WiFi spectrum, and you have a 6GHz 6E network. This upgrade
> > would free up some WiFi spectrum assuming your device is in an area of
> > your place where 6GHz is usable. (Ideally not through walls, from what
> > I hear)
> >
> > Now, when it comes to the "full" MythTV Android build, I *can* see a
> > difference with this new hardware. With pretty much in all of the
> > video playback settings, the video seems to play back "fine". What is
> > definitely noticeable is that the deinterlacing is significantly worse
> > than what I see with LeanFront. With LeanFront, the quality is at
> > least as good as, if not better than, my combined frontend/backend
> > system with dedicated Nvidia video output.
> >
> > The wiki guidance
> > <https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Android#Amazon_Fire_TV_Stick_4K> is
> > notably outdated compared to the options I see in the client.
> >
> > While I think I've tried most of the combinations of playback
> > settings, the recurring theme was that the quality was obviously worse
> > than LeanFront. Which raises some questions for me:
> >
> > - Shouldn't LeanFront and the full Android client be leveraging the
> > same playback settings/capability? That is, while the UI is obviously
> > different, shouldn't both frontends be providing the same playback
> > mechanism/quality?
> >
> > - What is the actual ideal combination of settings for playback in the
> > "full" Android MythTV frontend? And also:
> > - Why aren't these settings configured by default?
> > - If the MythTV wiki is not the go-to place for finding up-to-date
> > MythTV guidance, what is?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> > -WD
> >
>
> Just a quick heads up regarding the FireTV Sticks. I've heard from what
> I believe to be a legit source that Amazon, as part of their never
> ending battle to lock down their devices, are starting to push an update
> that actively removes some side loaded apps. It's not clear if it is all
> apps or just some they are going after but Amazon has always been clear
> that they do not support side loading apps. I think it's all part of
> their effort to lock down the sticks like their recent attempt to
> prevent you changing the home screen so they can push their paid for
> content on you etc.
>
>
> Paul H.
>

Eh that sounds more like fud to me, unless the take the developer option
away which is built into Android not sure how they would stop that. If they
take the option to side load away not sure how developers would do what
they needed to do. Again more of a sore point where vendors try to lock in
users and not "allow" them to do what they want with hardware they
purchased. IMHO I wouldn't need to side load if they would allow me to
install from the play store, all my apps are in the play store and that is
all I am looking for. Just another corporation doing what corporations due,
if they start playing games like that then I will go elsewhere, sigh...

>

Re: Fire Stick 4k Max v2 vs. 4k v1, and LeanFront vs. MythTV Full [ In reply to ]

mythtv at mythqml

Oct 22, 2023, 9:10 AM

Post #4 of 8 (251 views)

Permalink

On 22/10/2023 16:20, Tom Bishop wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 22, 2023, 10:07?AM Paul Harrison <mythtv@mythqml.net> wrote:
>
> Just a quick heads up regarding the FireTV Sticks. I've heard from
> what
> I believe to be a legit source that Amazon, as part of their never
> ending battle to lock down their devices, are starting to push an
> update
> that actively removes some side loaded apps. It's not clear if it
> is all
> apps or just some they are going after but Amazon has always been
> clear
> that they do not support side loading apps. I think it's all part of
> their effort to lock down the sticks like their recent attempt to
> prevent you changing the home screen so they can push their paid for
> content on you etc.
>
>
> Paul H.
>
>
>
> Eh that sounds more like fud to me, unless the take the developer
> option away which is built into Android not sure how they would stop
> that. If they take the option to side load away not sure how
> developers would do what they needed to do. Again more of a sore point
> where vendors try to lock in users and not "allow" them to do what
> they want with hardware they purchased. IMHO I wouldn't need to side
> load if they would allow me to install from the play store, all my
> apps are in the play store and that is all I am looking for. Just
> another corporation doing what corporations due, if they start playing
> games like that then I will go elsewhere, sigh...
>

Well I hope you are right. I think I'm right in saying legit apps have
to be signed so maybe they could use that to detect and remove or hide
non signed apps?

Anyway I did just stumble across a video on YouTube about this very
issue. It seems more than one person has seen the problem after an
update with some side loaded apps disappearing from their Home Screen.
The good news is they haven't actually been removed just hidden \0/
There's at least a couple of way to get them back apparently. When you
think about it would be a really bad idea for Amazon to deliberately
remove something their users have installed from a device they own. That
would piss a lot of users off and would likely create a lot of bad
publicity for them. Much better to "accidentally" make a programming
error that hides them from users so they can't use them :)

Paul H.

Re: Fire Stick 4k Max v2 vs. 4k v1, and LeanFront vs. MythTV Full [ In reply to ]

david at istwok

Oct 22, 2023, 10:30 AM

Post #5 of 8 (251 views)

Permalink

On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 10:32:31AM -0400, Will Dormann wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I recently was able to acquire a Fire Stick 4k Max v2 device, and am now
> able to compare differences between this newest 4k Fire Stick and the
> original 4k Fire Stick.
>
> When it comes to LeanFront, I see no difference whatsoever. So if you're
> living in the LeanFront world, I see no reason to upgrade to a newer 4K
> device. Other than perhaps if you are seeing contention in the 5GHz WiFi
> spectrum, and you have a 6GHz 6E network. This upgrade would free up some
> WiFi spectrum assuming your device is in an area of your place where 6GHz is
> usable. (Ideally not through walls, from what I hear)
>
> Now, when it comes to the "full" MythTV Android build, I *can* see a
> difference with this new hardware. With pretty much in all of the video
> playback settings, the video seems to play back "fine". What is definitely
> noticeable is that the deinterlacing is significantly worse than what I see
> with LeanFront. With LeanFront, the quality is at least as good as, if not
> better than, my combined frontend/backend system with dedicated Nvidia video
> output.
>
> The wiki guidance
> <https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Android#Amazon_Fire_TV_Stick_4K> is notably
> outdated compared to the options I see in the client.
>
> While I think I've tried most of the combinations of playback settings, the
> recurring theme was that the quality was obviously worse than LeanFront.
> Which raises some questions for me:
>
> - Shouldn't LeanFront and the full Android client be leveraging the same
> playback settings/capability? That is, while the UI is obviously different,
> shouldn't both frontends be providing the same playback mechanism/quality?

In theory, yes, the playback should be identical.

> - What is the actual ideal combination of settings for playback in the
> "full" Android MythTV frontend? And also:
> - Why aren't these settings configured by default?
> - If the MythTV wiki is not the go-to place for finding up-to-date MythTV
> guidance, what is?

YOu need to choose a playback profile with "Anroid MediaCodec
acceleration" as the decoder not the one with "decode only". Out of
the box, there is no such default profile. The reason is the
original, MediaCodec support was only half done (the decdode only)
option and no one has changed it since the full support was finished.

David
--
David Engel
david@istwok.net
_______________________________________________
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mythtv-users@mythtv.org
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Re: Fire Stick 4k Max v2 vs. 4k v1, and LeanFront vs. MythTV Full [ In reply to ]

wdormann at gmail

Oct 22, 2023, 12:21 PM

Post #6 of 8 (251 views)

Permalink

On 10/22/23 1:30 PM, David Engel wrote:
>> - If the MythTV wiki is not the go-to place for finding up-to-date MythTV
>> guidance, what is?
>
> YOu need to choose a playback profile with "Anroid MediaCodec
> acceleration" as the decoder not the one with "decode only". Out of
> the box, there is no such default profile. The reason is the
> original, MediaCodec support was only half done (the decdode only)
> option and no one has changed it since the full support was finished.

OK, yes!

This was the main thing that was making the full client look worse than
the LeanFront client. Switching from the default of "decode only" to
"acceleration" made the full client look as good as LeanFront. I've
also disabled deblocking and deinterlacing, as I figure this should all
be integrated into the accelerated playback, and MythTV itself shouldn't
have to do anything here.

Interestingly, my 1st-gen Fire Stick 4k seems a touch under-powered to
use the full Mythfrontend client, even with these settings. But it is
fine with LeanFront. Which makes me wonder if perhaps there's some
combination of settings to get true parity with LeanFront playback, at
least from a CPU/GPU usage perspective.

Thanks!
-WD
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Re: Fire Stick 4k Max v2 vs. 4k v1, and LeanFront vs. MythTV Full [ In reply to ]

david at istwok

Oct 22, 2023, 12:55 PM

Post #7 of 8 (251 views)

Permalink

On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 03:21:30PM -0400, Will Dormann wrote:
> On 10/22/23 1:30 PM, David Engel wrote:
> > > - If the MythTV wiki is not the go-to place for finding up-to-date MythTV
> > > guidance, what is?
> >
> > YOu need to choose a playback profile with "Anroid MediaCodec
> > acceleration" as the decoder not the one with "decode only". Out of
> > the box, there is no such default profile. The reason is the
> > original, MediaCodec support was only half done (the decdode only)
> > option and no one has changed it since the full support was finished.
>
>
> OK, yes!
>
> This was the main thing that was making the full client look worse than the
> LeanFront client. Switching from the default of "decode only" to
> "acceleration" made the full client look as good as LeanFront. I've also
> disabled deblocking and deinterlacing, as I figure this should all be
> integrated into the accelerated playback, and MythTV itself shouldn't have
> to do anything here.
>
> Interestingly, my 1st-gen Fire Stick 4k seems a touch under-powered to use
> the full Mythfrontend client, even with these settings. But it is fine with
> LeanFront. Which makes me wonder if perhaps there's some combination of
> settings to get true parity with LeanFront playback, at least from a CPU/GPU
> usage perspective.

Mythfrontend has a lot more going on and has a much bigger memory
footprint than most players. I suspect a version of mythfrontend with
some less common features not compiled in and using a simple theme
would probably perform better on older, less powerful Fire TVs.

David
--
David Engel
david@istwok.net
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Re: Fire Stick 4k Max v2 vs. 4k v1, and LeanFront vs. MythTV Full [ In reply to ]

km at mathcs

Oct 23, 2023, 4:06 PM

Post #8 of 8 (247 views)

Permalink

Will Dormann wrote on 10/22/23 10:32:
>
> The wiki guidance
> <https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Android#Amazon_Fire_TV_Stick_4K> is
> notably outdated compared to the options I see in the client.

I have never gotten mythfrontend to work adequately on the the FS4K,
and as you say the options in the wiki don't match whats currently
available on the stick., and I doubt that I ever configured it correctly.

It would certainly help if it were revised, especially since there is
some indication that the performance on the newer generation FS4K may
be acceptable.

I do use and really like Leanfront and am grateful to Peter for his
work. Still for certain uses I wish mythfrontend was usable on the stick.

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