Mailing List Archive

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 9:10?AM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:

> New web app for setup and replacement for mythweb
>
> There is a new web application in the master branch. Running on
> http://backend:6744, it supports everything in mythtv-setup. It will
> replace mythtv-setup and allow you to do the complete setup through a
> browser. mythbackend can start up without a database and you can then
> set up the database and the rest of MythTV through the browser.
>
> Also included are pages to replace mythweb. Currently these include
> Backend Status, Channel Editor, Program Guide, Recordings, and Upcoming.
> The program guide supports scheduling of recordings, and programs that
> are scheduled are highlighted in the guide. Recordings can be filtered
> and sorted, and various update options are provided.
>
> I will be adding pages for recording rules and videos, and updating the
> recordings and upcoming pages to allow rescheduling from those pages.
>
> I would appreciate it if people can test this and report back any
> issues. I have added support for all capture card types but I cannot
> test most of them as I do not have the hardware or the appropriate TV
> signals. Also the satellite settings that are available with DVB cards
> are extensive and I cannot verify that they are working correctly.
>
> If you find any problems or have questions please report them with a
> comment to this issue
> https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/issues/239
> or email me.
>
> The system caters for language translation. Translations have not been
> done yet.
>
> Peter
>
> This sounds like a great app. I will be testing and reporting for ATSC
1.0 tuners, HDHR and Hauppauge WinTVHD Quad where I can.

So to start on the right path. If I build from source and install mariadb.
Do I create the systemd service for mythtv-backend and enable/start it and
then go to the webapp??

Jim A

On 5/30/23 09:59, James Abernathy wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 9:10?AM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> New web app for setup and replacement for mythweb
>
> There is a new web application in the master branch. Running on
> http://backend:6744, it supports everything in mythtv-setup. It will
> replace mythtv-setup and allow you to do the complete setup through a
> browser. mythbackend can start up without a database and you can then
> set up the database and the rest of MythTV through the browser.
>
> Also included are pages to replace mythweb. Currently these include
> Backend Status, Channel Editor, Program Guide, Recordings, and
> Upcoming.
> The program guide supports scheduling of recordings, and programs
> that
> are scheduled are highlighted in the guide. Recordings can be
> filtered
> and sorted, and various update options are provided.
>
> I will be adding pages for recording rules and videos, and
> updating the
> recordings and upcoming pages to allow rescheduling from those pages.
>
> I would appreciate it if people can test this and report back any
> issues. I have added support for all capture card types but I cannot
> test most of them as I do not have the hardware or the appropriate TV
> signals. Also the satellite settings that are available with DVB
> cards
> are extensive and I cannot verify that they are working correctly.
>
> If you find any problems or have questions please report them with a
> comment to this issue
> https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/issues/239
> or email me.
>
> The system caters for language translation. Translations have not
> been
> done yet.
>
> Peter
>
> This sounds like a great app.  I will be testing and reporting for
> ATSC 1.0 tuners, HDHR and Hauppauge WinTVHD Quad where I can.
>
> So to start on the right path.  If I build from source and install
> mariadb. Do I create the systemd service for mythtv-backend and
> enable/start it and then go to the webapp??
>
> Jim A
>
That should work. If you do not have a .mythtv directory and a
config.xml, the backend will start without the database and let you
enter the db credentials. It will then instruct you to restart with the
restart button included on the page. After that you will be able to
continue with the rest of setup.

You can also try it out with an existing installation if you have the
latest master build. Go to the cogwheel icon and you can change
settings, add tuners, etc., etc.

When you start mythbackend without a database or without IP address
settings, the webapp will go directly to the setup pages. Once basic
setup is done it will go to the default main page and you can access
setup via the cogwheel.

Let me know of any questions or problems.

Peter

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:11?AM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 5/30/23 09:59, James Abernathy wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 9:10?AM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> New web app for setup and replacement for mythweb
>>
>> There is a new web application in the master branch. Running on
>> http://backend:6744, it supports everything in mythtv-setup. It will
>> replace mythtv-setup and allow you to do the complete setup through a
>> browser. mythbackend can start up without a database and you can then
>> set up the database and the rest of MythTV through the browser.
>>
>> Also included are pages to replace mythweb. Currently these include
>> Backend Status, Channel Editor, Program Guide, Recordings, and Upcoming.
>> The program guide supports scheduling of recordings, and programs that
>> are scheduled are highlighted in the guide. Recordings can be filtered
>> and sorted, and various update options are provided.
>>
>> I will be adding pages for recording rules and videos, and updating the
>> recordings and upcoming pages to allow rescheduling from those pages.
>>
>> I would appreciate it if people can test this and report back any
>> issues. I have added support for all capture card types but I cannot
>> test most of them as I do not have the hardware or the appropriate TV
>> signals. Also the satellite settings that are available with DVB cards
>> are extensive and I cannot verify that they are working correctly.
>>
>> If you find any problems or have questions please report them with a
>> comment to this issue
>> https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/issues/239
>> or email me.
>>
>> The system caters for language translation. Translations have not been
>> done yet.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> This sounds like a great app. I will be testing and reporting for ATSC
> 1.0 tuners, HDHR and Hauppauge WinTVHD Quad where I can.
>
> So to start on the right path. If I build from source and install
> mariadb. Do I create the systemd service for mythtv-backend and
> enable/start it and then go to the webapp??
>
> Jim A
>
>
> That should work. If you do not have a .mythtv directory and a config.xml,
> the backend will start without the database and let you enter the db
> credentials. It will then instruct you to restart with the restart button
> included on the page. After that you will be able to continue with the rest
> of setup.
>
> You can also try it out with an existing installation if you have the
> latest master build. Go to the cogwheel icon and you can change settings,
> add tuners, etc., etc.
>
> When you start mythbackend without a database or without IP address
> settings, the webapp will go directly to the setup pages. Once basic setup
> is done it will go to the default main page and you can access setup via
> the cogwheel.
>
> Let me know of any questions or problems.
>
> Peter
>
So here's what I found. I could not get the mythtv-backend.serivce to run
without an error, but I could open a terminal and just run mythbackend.
Then point a browser to the ip:6744 and that started at setup.

I also could not use the mysql script for creating the user that is in the
webapp. So I had to use the one from the Build from Source wiki page:

mysql -u root -p
create database mythconverg;
create user 'mythtv'@'%' identified by 'mythtv';
create user 'mythtv'@'localhost' identified by 'mythtv';
set password for 'mythtv'@'%' = password('mythtv');
set password for 'mythtv'@'localhost' = password('mythtv');
connect mythconverg;
grant all privileges on *.* to 'mythtv'@'%' with grant option;
grant all privileges on *.* to 'mythtv'@'localhost' with grant option;
flush privileges;
exit;

Still working through start up issues.

More later

Jim A

I don't have a dev system, so I can't test this, but I have a question
about whether a feature already exists or could be made to exist:

I've had a private patch to various versions of mythweb for a million
years which changes the single channel presentation of listings (what
you get from mythweb/tv/channel?chanid=CHANNUM&date=TIMESTAMP) from
showing -one- day at a time to -all- days on and after the date chosen.
This is waaaay faster for my workflow of saying, "Is there anything
interesting coming up on this channel?" and which I do for several
channels at regular intervals---otherwise I have to get a new page for
every single day, one at a time, instead of scrolling, and that's just
intolerably slow. So I made the "all days at a time" mode the default
for my particular mythweb; if you want only one day, just stop reading
partway down the page. :)

Can this replacement perhaps have a mode which enables this behavior?
Otherwise, at least for my use case, I'd either stay with mythweb or
patch the new version to do what I've been doing with mythweb, and I'd
rather not be in the business of doing that forever.

If you'd like me to send a diff from the current mythweb for my patched
version so you know what I"m talking about, I can, though I assume it
wouldn't be directly useful in the reimplementation by itself. It's
only a few lines of code.

Thanks!

P.S. As part of that patch, I also fixed a bug where every time you
changed the channel in the form, mythweb jumped backwards a day in the
date, caused by it confusing UTC with localtime and then consistently
walking backwards over the midnight boundary; that'll be in the patch
if anyone wants to see it.
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:11?AM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 5/30/23 09:59, James Abernathy wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 9:10?AM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> New web app for setup and replacement for mythweb
>>
>> There is a new web application in the master branch. Running on
>> http://backend:6744, it supports everything in mythtv-setup. It will
>> replace mythtv-setup and allow you to do the complete setup through a
>> browser. mythbackend can start up without a database and you can then
>> set up the database and the rest of MythTV through the browser.
>>
>> Also included are pages to replace mythweb. Currently these include
>> Backend Status, Channel Editor, Program Guide, Recordings, and Upcoming.
>> The program guide supports scheduling of recordings, and programs that
>> are scheduled are highlighted in the guide. Recordings can be filtered
>> and sorted, and various update options are provided.
>>
>> I will be adding pages for recording rules and videos, and updating the
>> recordings and upcoming pages to allow rescheduling from those pages.
>>
>> I would appreciate it if people can test this and report back any
>> issues. I have added support for all capture card types but I cannot
>> test most of them as I do not have the hardware or the appropriate TV
>> signals. Also the satellite settings that are available with DVB cards
>> are extensive and I cannot verify that they are working correctly.
>>
>> If you find any problems or have questions please report them with a
>> comment to this issue
>> https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/issues/239
>> or email me.
>>
>> The system caters for language translation. Translations have not been
>> done yet.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> This sounds like a great app. I will be testing and reporting for ATSC
> 1.0 tuners, HDHR and Hauppauge WinTVHD Quad where I can.
>
> So to start on the right path. If I build from source and install
> mariadb. Do I create the systemd service for mythtv-backend and
> enable/start it and then go to the webapp??
>
> Jim A
>
>
> That should work. If you do not have a .mythtv directory and a config.xml,
> the backend will start without the database and let you enter the db
> credentials. It will then instruct you to restart with the restart button
> included on the page. After that you will be able to continue with the rest
> of setup.
>
> You can also try it out with an existing installation if you have the
> latest master build. Go to the cogwheel icon and you can change settings,
> add tuners, etc., etc.
>
> When you start mythbackend without a database or without IP address
> settings, the webapp will go directly to the setup pages. Once basic setup
> is done it will go to the default main page and you can access setup via
> the cogwheel.
>
> Let me know of any questions or problems.
>
> Peter
>

So I need to add to the pre-test setup. First and foremost. SHUTDOWN any
production mythtv backends. I forgot to do this and ended up upgrading my
Production mythtv 33 database to version "master". The good thing is I run
BTRFS with timeshift so I just restored to a snapshot taken the hour before.

I also found that if your only user on the backend is not user "mythtv"
then you need to create a user and group "mythtv" before you start.
You also need to create your storage directories and set the owner/group to
"mythtv" with the correct permissions.

JimA

On 5/30/23 13:25, f-myth-users@media.mit.edu wrote:
> I don't have a dev system, so I can't test this, but I have a question
> about whether a feature already exists or could be made to exist:
>
> I've had a private patch to various versions of mythweb for a million
> years which changes the single channel presentation of listings (what
> you get from mythweb/tv/channel?chanid=CHANNUM&date=TIMESTAMP) from
> showing -one- day at a time to -all- days on and after the date chosen.
> This is waaaay faster for my workflow of saying, "Is there anything
> interesting coming up on this channel?" and which I do for several
> channels at regular intervals---otherwise I have to get a new page for
> every single day, one at a time, instead of scrolling, and that's just
> intolerably slow. So I made the "all days at a time" mode the default
> for my particular mythweb; if you want only one day, just stop reading
> partway down the page. :)
>
> Can this replacement perhaps have a mode which enables this behavior?
> Otherwise, at least for my use case, I'd either stay with mythweb or
> patch the new version to do what I've been doing with mythweb, and I'd
> rather not be in the business of doing that forever.
>
> If you'd like me to send a diff from the current mythweb for my patched
> version so you know what I"m talking about, I can, though I assume it
> wouldn't be directly useful in the reimplementation by itself. It's
> only a few lines of code.
>
> Thanks!
>
> P.S. As part of that patch, I also fixed a bug where every time you
> changed the channel in the form, mythweb jumped backwards a day in the
> date, caused by it confusing UTC with localtime and then consistently
> walking backwards over the midnight boundary; that'll be in the patch
> if anyone wants to see it.

I have not implemented the single channel presentation of listings at
this time. The single channel display is a different format, being a
list rather than a grid. I will add that to my todo list and keep in
mind your request.

Peter


_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org

> Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 15:33:49 -0400
> From: Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com>

> I have not implemented the single channel presentation of listings at
> this time. The single channel display is a different format, being a
> list rather than a grid. I will add that to my todo list and keep in
> mind your request.

Thanks! And, again, if you or anyone want to see my patches to mythweb
(either for clarity on what I'm doing, or because someone wants to run
this themselves for mythweb until it's superceded) just ask.
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 9:10?AM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:

> New web app for setup and replacement for mythweb
>
> There is a new web application in the master branch. Running on
> http://backend:6744, it supports everything in mythtv-setup. It will
> replace mythtv-setup and allow you to do the complete setup through a
> browser. mythbackend can start up without a database and you can then
> set up the database and the rest of MythTV through the browser.
>
> Also included are pages to replace mythweb. Currently these include
> Backend Status, Channel Editor, Program Guide, Recordings, and Upcoming.
> The program guide supports scheduling of recordings, and programs that
> are scheduled are highlighted in the guide. Recordings can be filtered
> and sorted, and various update options are provided.
>
> I will be adding pages for recording rules and videos, and updating the
> recordings and upcoming pages to allow rescheduling from those pages.
>
> I would appreciate it if people can test this and report back any
> issues. I have added support for all capture card types but I cannot
> test most of them as I do not have the hardware or the appropriate TV
> signals. Also the satellite settings that are available with DVB cards
> are extensive and I cannot verify that they are working correctly.
>
> If you find any problems or have questions please report them with a
> comment to this issue
> https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/issues/239
> or email me.
>
> The system caters for language translation. Translations have not been
> done yet.
>
> Peter


Will this work with OTA EIT scans? Not having any success with that setup.
I'll try XMLTV next

Jim A



>
>

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:55?AM James Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:11?AM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 5/30/23 09:59, James Abernathy wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 9:10?AM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> New web app for setup and replacement for mythweb
>>>
>>> There is a new web application in the master branch. Running on
>>> http://backend:6744, it supports everything in mythtv-setup. It will
>>> replace mythtv-setup and allow you to do the complete setup through a
>>> browser. mythbackend can start up without a database and you can then
>>> set up the database and the rest of MythTV through the browser.
>>>
>>> Also included are pages to replace mythweb. Currently these include
>>> Backend Status, Channel Editor, Program Guide, Recordings, and Upcoming.
>>> The program guide supports scheduling of recordings, and programs that
>>> are scheduled are highlighted in the guide. Recordings can be filtered
>>> and sorted, and various update options are provided.
>>>
>>> I will be adding pages for recording rules and videos, and updating the
>>> recordings and upcoming pages to allow rescheduling from those pages.
>>>
>>> I would appreciate it if people can test this and report back any
>>> issues. I have added support for all capture card types but I cannot
>>> test most of them as I do not have the hardware or the appropriate TV
>>> signals. Also the satellite settings that are available with DVB cards
>>> are extensive and I cannot verify that they are working correctly.
>>>
>>> If you find any problems or have questions please report them with a
>>> comment to this issue
>>> https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/issues/239
>>> or email me.
>>>
>>> The system caters for language translation. Translations have not been
>>> done yet.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> This sounds like a great app. I will be testing and reporting for ATSC
>> 1.0 tuners, HDHR and Hauppauge WinTVHD Quad where I can.
>>
>> So to start on the right path. If I build from source and install
>> mariadb. Do I create the systemd service for mythtv-backend and
>> enable/start it and then go to the webapp??
>>
>> Jim A
>>
>>
>> That should work. If you do not have a .mythtv directory and a
>> config.xml, the backend will start without the database and let you enter
>> the db credentials. It will then instruct you to restart with the restart
>> button included on the page. After that you will be able to continue with
>> the rest of setup.
>>
>> You can also try it out with an existing installation if you have the
>> latest master build. Go to the cogwheel icon and you can change settings,
>> add tuners, etc., etc.
>>
>> When you start mythbackend without a database or without IP address
>> settings, the webapp will go directly to the setup pages. Once basic setup
>> is done it will go to the default main page and you can access setup via
>> the cogwheel.
>>
>> Let me know of any questions or problems.
>>
>> Peter
>>
> So here's what I found. I could not get the mythtv-backend.serivce to run
> without an error, but I could open a terminal and just run mythbackend.
> Then point a browser to the ip:6744 and that started at setup.
>
> I also could not use the mysql script for creating the user that is in the
> webapp. So I had to use the one from the Build from Source wiki page:
>
> mysql -u root -p
> create database mythconverg;
> create user 'mythtv'@'%' identified by 'mythtv';
> create user 'mythtv'@'localhost' identified by 'mythtv';
> set password for 'mythtv'@'%' = password('mythtv');
> set password for 'mythtv'@'localhost' = password('mythtv');
> connect mythconverg;
> grant all privileges on *.* to 'mythtv'@'%' with grant option;
> grant all privileges on *.* to 'mythtv'@'localhost' with grant option;
> flush privileges;
> exit;
>
> Still working through start up issues.
>
> More later
>
> Jim A
>

Could it be that the mysql script in the webapp that is supposed to set up
the mythconverg database be for Mysql and not MariaDB?

Jim A

> On 31 May 2023, at 7:06 am, James Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:55?AM James Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com <mailto:jfabernathy@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:11?AM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com <mailto:pb.mythtv@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> On 5/30/23 09:59, James Abernathy wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 9:10?AM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com <mailto:pb.mythtv@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> New web app for setup and replacement for mythweb
>>
>> There is a new web application in the master branch. Running on
>> http://backend:6744 <http://backend:6744/>, it supports everything in mythtv-setup. It will
>> replace mythtv-setup and allow you to do the complete setup through a
>> browser. mythbackend can start up without a database and you can then
>> set up the database and the rest of MythTV through the browser.
>>
>> Also included are pages to replace mythweb. Currently these include
>> Backend Status, Channel Editor, Program Guide, Recordings, and Upcoming.
>> The program guide supports scheduling of recordings, and programs that
>> are scheduled are highlighted in the guide. Recordings can be filtered
>> and sorted, and various update options are provided.
>>
>> I will be adding pages for recording rules and videos, and updating the
>> recordings and upcoming pages to allow rescheduling from those pages.
>>
>> I would appreciate it if people can test this and report back any
>> issues. I have added support for all capture card types but I cannot
>> test most of them as I do not have the hardware or the appropriate TV
>> signals. Also the satellite settings that are available with DVB cards
>> are extensive and I cannot verify that they are working correctly.
>>
>> If you find any problems or have questions please report them with a
>> comment to this issue
>> https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/issues/239 <https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/issues/239>
>> or email me.
>>
>> The system caters for language translation. Translations have not been
>> done yet.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> This sounds like a great app. I will be testing and reporting for ATSC 1.0 tuners, HDHR and Hauppauge WinTVHD Quad where I can.
>>
>> So to start on the right path. If I build from source and install mariadb. Do I create the systemd service for mythtv-backend and enable/start it and then go to the webapp??
>>
>> Jim A
>>
>>
> That should work. If you do not have a .mythtv directory and a config.xml, the backend will start without the database and let you enter the db credentials. It will then instruct you to restart with the restart button included on the page. After that you will be able to continue with the rest of setup.
>
> You can also try it out with an existing installation if you have the latest master build. Go to the cogwheel icon and you can change settings, add tuners, etc., etc.
>
> When you start mythbackend without a database or without IP address settings, the webapp will go directly to the setup pages. Once basic setup is done it will go to the default main page and you can access setup via the cogwheel.
>
> Let me know of any questions or problems.
>
> Peter
>
> So here's what I found. I could not get the mythtv-backend.serivce to run without an error, but I could open a terminal and just run mythbackend. Then point a browser to the ip:6744 and that started at setup.
>
> I also could not use the mysql script for creating the user that is in the webapp. So I had to use the one from the Build from Source wiki page:
>
> mysql -u root -p
> create database mythconverg;
> create user 'mythtv'@'%' identified by 'mythtv';
> create user 'mythtv'@'localhost' identified by 'mythtv';
> set password for 'mythtv'@'%' = password('mythtv');
> set password for 'mythtv'@'localhost' = password('mythtv');
> connect mythconverg;
> grant all privileges on *.* to 'mythtv'@'%' with grant option;
> grant all privileges on *.* to 'mythtv'@'localhost' with grant option;
> flush privileges;
> exit;
>
> Still working through start up issues.
>
> More later
>
> Jim A
>
> Could it be that the mysql script in the webapp that is supposed to set up the mythconverg database be for Mysql and not MariaDB?

Peter sounds very nice, but despite John's help and hard work I have been unable to build mythfrontend master for mac high sierra.
My main watching machine is un-upgradeable so I'm for ever stuck on 32.
Opinion: back porting to 32 possible for me to do?

(I usually build (no I always) from src. A recent upgrade to SuSE tumbleweed broke mythweb and the alternatives are barely usable.

SuSE make installing an old tumbleweed impossible: say install 20220904, install the dev tools bing-bong and you are cutrrent.
The last Leap (15.4) had so much btoken that (foolishly) I went to tumbleweed. Ubuntu is much more flexable in this regard (keeping and using a specific kernel) but IMHO are much more horrid eg dmesg eg unattended upgrades eg anal obsession with nano spurning vi etc etc

One Liner: with reasonable level of skill can I back port to 32

James

On 5/30/23 19:47, James wrote:
> Peter sounds very nice, but despite John's help and hard work I have
> been unable to build mythfrontend master for mac high sierra.
> My main watching machine is un-upgradeable so I'm for ever stuck on 32.
> Opinion: back porting to 32 possible for me to do?
>
> (I usually build (no I always) from src. A recent upgrade to SuSE
> tumbleweed broke mythweb and the alternatives are barely usable.
>
>  SuSE make installing an old tumbleweed impossible: say install
> 20220904, install the dev tools bing-bong and you are cutrrent.
> The last Leap (15.4) had so much btoken that (foolishly) I went to
> tumbleweed. Ubuntu is much more flexable in this regard (keeping and
> using a specific kernel) but IMHO are much more horrid eg dmesg eg
> unattended upgrades eg anal obsession with nano spurning vi etc etc
>
> One Liner: with reasonable level of skill can I back port to 32
>
> James
>
Where do you run the backend? Is that also on mac? Are you able to build
the backend?

What is the problem with the frontend? Is it a compile error or a
problem with watching video?

I may be able to suggest a workaround if I know what the problem is.

The problem with backporting this to v32 is that there are changes in
many places to support it. By the time you have backported everything
you probably have much of V34-pre anyway and maybe won't be able to build.

Peter

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On Tue, 30 May 2023 13:25:02 -0400, you wrote:

>I've had a private patch to various versions of mythweb for a million
>years which changes the single channel presentation of listings (what
>you get from mythweb/tv/channel?chanid=CHANNUM&date=TIMESTAMP) from
>showing -one- day at a time to -all- days on and after the date chosen.
>This is waaaay faster for my workflow of saying, "Is there anything
>interesting coming up on this channel?" and which I do for several
>channels at regular intervals---otherwise I have to get a new page for
>every single day, one at a time, instead of scrolling, and that's just
>intolerably slow. So I made the "all days at a time" mode the default
>for my particular mythweb; if you want only one day, just stop reading
>partway down the page. :)

Your need to look ahead for new things might be helped by my epgdiff
Python program:

http://www.jsw.gen.nz/mythtv/epgdiff

This looks at the EPG in the database and displays any new programmes
it sees that are present in future EPG data but not in the past EPG
data. It has options to also check if you are already recording a new
programme and to not display that if you are. If you use its -G (GUI)
option, it will pop up a window with the new listings and you can
select a programme from that window and it will take you to that
programme in mythfrontend so you can read about it and set it to
record if you want to. When you want to go back to the epgdiff window
from mythfrontend, just do Alt-Tab on the keyboard.

It also has the ability to be run using your IR remote control via
lirc, but there is a lot of setup to make that work, which is
undocumented at present.

If you try it out, please let me know if there are any problems or
feature requests. And if you would like to try using it with lirc,
please contact me off list and I can let you know how to set it all
up.
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Thanks! I use mythweb, not mythfrontend, for 100% of my scheduling, and
I typically look as far ahead as possible around the time when my last
look will have been expiring (e.g., every couple of weeks), so epgdiff
isn't quite my use case, but it sounds like it might be interesting to
adapt (in some way in which the scheduling isn't done through mythfrontend)
if I wanted to take more-frequent looks at programming. (The problem with
my every-couple-of-weeks looks is, yeah, they'll miss additions which pop
up, say, a week in advance, but I don't want to spend the time looking
that frequently. :)
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> On 31 May 2023, at 8:56 am, Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 5/30/23 19:47, James wrote:
>> Peter sounds very nice, but despite John's help and hard work I have been unable to build mythfrontend master for mac high sierra.
>> My main watching machine is un-upgradeable so I'm for ever stuck on 32.
>> Opinion: back porting to 32 possible for me to do?
>>
>> (I usually build (no I always) from src. A recent upgrade to SuSE tumbleweed broke mythweb and the alternatives are barely usable.
>>
>> SuSE make installing an old tumbleweed impossible: say install 20220904, install the dev tools bing-bong and you are cutrrent.
>> The last Leap (15.4) had so much btoken that (foolishly) I went to tumbleweed. Ubuntu is much more flexable in this regard (keeping and using a specific kernel) but IMHO are much more horrid eg dmesg eg unattended upgrades eg anal obsession with nano spurning vi etc etc
>>
>> One Liner: with reasonable level of skill can I back port to 32
>>
>> James
>>
> Where do you run the backend? Is that also on mac? Are you able to build the backend?
>
> What is the problem with the frontend? Is it a compile error or a problem with watching video?
>
> I may be able to suggest a workaround if I know what the problem is.
> The problem with backporting this to v32 is that there are changes in many places to support it. By the time you have backported everything you probably have much of V34-pre anyway and maybe won't be able to build.

Hmm OK thanks lots.
My backend is SuSE tumbleweed.
My frontend are various mostly linux but a mac too.
Building for High Sierra is compile issues. I use a VM as that way I can throw the mess away and start from scratch. I *have* built from John's ansible stuff but can't do so now. I don't recall off hand what the issue was - I'll have another go.
Cheers
James

On Wed, 31 May 2023 00:15:48 -0400, you wrote:

>Thanks! I use mythweb, not mythfrontend, for 100% of my scheduling, and
>I typically look as far ahead as possible around the time when my last
>look will have been expiring (e.g., every couple of weeks), so epgdiff
>isn't quite my use case, but it sounds like it might be interesting to
>adapt (in some way in which the scheduling isn't done through mythfrontend)
>if I wanted to take more-frequent looks at programming. (The problem with
>my every-couple-of-weeks looks is, yeah, they'll miss additions which pop
>up, say, a week in advance, but I don't want to spend the time looking
>that frequently. :)

Epgdiff looks ahead as far as the EPG in the database goes. Here in
New Zealand, that is usually only one week, but US EPG seems to often
be up to 2 weeks. It definitely does need to use mythfrontend for
scheduling new recordings. It can be used in command line only mode
to get a list of the new upcoming programmes - that might be useful to
you.
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On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 1:10?PM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> New web app for setup and replacement for mythweb
>

As a meta question, should those that package
MythTV plan to rebuild the web-app using their
distro version(s) of npm/nodejs(*)?

Right now some (but not all) buildbot workers
rebuild the web-app as part of the builds as
part of CI, so there is some (but not currently
complete) coverage to make sure that things
build properly on different platforms.

This is also partially a question about "building
from source", rather than using a preassembled
app, and bundled sources (which, as I understand
it, the project generally wishes to try to avoid
(and remove) when possible, although there
are always some advantages to bundled sources).



(*) Regardless, for development, the ansible
playbooks probably should be updated to
install npm/nodejs for developers.
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On 5/31/23 11:21, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
> On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 1:10?PM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>> New web app for setup and replacement for mythweb
>>
> As a meta question, should those that package
> MythTV plan to rebuild the web-app using their
> distro version(s) of npm/nodejs(*)?
>
> Right now some (but not all) buildbot workers
> rebuild the web-app as part of the builds as
> part of CI, so there is some (but not currently
> complete) coverage to make sure that things
> build properly on different platforms.
>
> This is also partially a question about "building
> from source", rather than using a preassembled
> app, and bundled sources (which, as I understand
> it, the project generally wishes to try to avoid
> (and remove) when possible, although there
> are always some advantages to bundled sources).
>
>
>
> (*) Regardless, for development, the ansible
> playbooks probably should be updated to
> install npm/nodejs for developers.
> _______________________________________________

I am building the package manually and committing the bundled javascript
files. The make scripts do not do anything other than deploy them.

This was set up before I started work on it. Stuart and Paul Harrison
set up the system like that and I did not question it. It seems
reasonable because the same built packages can be installed everywhere
and you don't have to deal with having the correct software installed on
build machines.

There are instructions for developers that include the precise software
versions we are using, at https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/WebApp_Development .

Peter

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On 5/30/23 11:55, James Abernathy wrote:
> So here's what I found.  I could not get the mythtv-backend.serivce to
> run without an error, but I could open a terminal and just run
> mythbackend.  Then point a browser to the ip:6744  and that started at
> setup.
>
What was the error with the service? Are you using the service from the
ubuntu package? If not where are you getting the service?
> I also could not use the mysql script for creating the user that is in
> the webapp.  So I had to use the one from the Build from Source wiki page:
>
> mysql -u root -p
> create database mythconverg;
> create user 'mythtv'@'%' identified by 'mythtv';
> create user 'mythtv'@'localhost' identified by 'mythtv';
> set password for 'mythtv'@'%' = password('mythtv');
> set password for 'mythtv'@'localhost' = password('mythtv');
> connect mythconverg;
> grant all privileges on *.* to 'mythtv'@'%' with grant option;
> grant all privileges on *.* to 'mythtv'@'localhost' with grant option;
> flush privileges;
> exit;
>
I am adding a radio button to the page to choose MySQL or MariaDB so
that it can generate the correct commends for each.

Peter
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On 5/30/23 14:34, James Abernathy wrote:
> So I need to add to the pre-test setup. First and foremost. SHUTDOWN
> any production mythtv backends.  I forgot to do this and ended up
> upgrading my Production mythtv 33 database to version "master". The
> good thing is I run BTRFS with timeshift so I just restored to a
> snapshot taken the hour before.
>
> I also found that if your only user on the backend is not user
> "mythtv" then you need to create a user and group "mythtv" before you
> start.
> You also need to create your storage directories and set the
> owner/group to "mythtv" with the correct permissions.
>
> JimA


You can run it under any user. The packages normally take care of
creating the mythtv user for you. This would still be taken care of by
the package install.

Peter

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On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 11:03?AM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 5/30/23 14:34, James Abernathy wrote:
> > So I need to add to the pre-test setup. First and foremost. SHUTDOWN
> > any production mythtv backends. I forgot to do this and ended up
> > upgrading my Production mythtv 33 database to version "master". The
> > good thing is I run BTRFS with timeshift so I just restored to a
> > snapshot taken the hour before.
> >
> > I also found that if your only user on the backend is not user
> > "mythtv" then you need to create a user and group "mythtv" before you
> > start.
> > You also need to create your storage directories and set the
> > owner/group to "mythtv" with the correct permissions.
> >
> > JimA
>
>
> You can run it under any user. The packages normally take care of
> creating the mythtv user for you. This would still be taken care of by
> the package install.
>
> Peter
>

After testing a lot yesterday. There are 2 key issues I've found.
1. After you set up the backend IP and check Master and save that in the
General section. It forgets that saving and the selections get deleted by
some other aspect of the configuration.
2. The webapp scanning on hdhr tuners doesn't seem to work yet.

Since I'm using btrfs I can instantly restore to the point of starting the
webapp without mythconverg setup, I can go through the setup process from
the start each time.
Today I used mythtv-setup to create the backend and got it working fine as
expected. Then I used webapp for looking around and working with the guide
and setting up recordings. That works very well.

Jim A

On 6/1/23 20:20, Ken Mandelberg wrote:
> Hi Peter
>
> I understand that the big win here is for setup. I've been mainly
> trying it as a mythweb substitute. It does indeed display the same
> data as mythweb in the same order. I may be being superficial but it
> is much less pleasant to use then mythweb without the gui elements and
> images. Is the plan to add that, or stick with text? That doesn't
> matter for setup which is run once or seldom, but I use mythweb every
> day.
>
> Ken
>
Hi Ken

There is no specific plan for that. I am trying to put something
together as quickly as possible.

If you tell me precisely what you would like to see added I will do it
once the basics are complete. I am afraid I am no artist, but if you
think certain colors and other elements will improve it please let me
know, but please be specific.

Peter

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> On 2 Jun 2023, at 8:38 am, Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Peter
>>
>> I understand that the big win here is for setup. I've been mainly trying it as a mythweb substitute. It does indeed display the same data as mythweb in the same order. I may be being superficial but it is much less pleasant to use then mythweb without the gui elements and images. Is the plan to add that, or stick with text? That doesn't matter for setup which is run once or seldom, but I use mythweb every day.
>>
>> Ken
>>
> Hi Ken
>
> There is no specific plan for that. I am trying to put something together as quickly as possible.
>
> If you tell me precisely what you would like to see added I will do it once the basics are complete. I am afraid I am no artist, but if you think certain colors and other elements will improve it please let me know, but please be specific.


Just being an AH here ….

1 in 7 males are part colour blind!
So colours that look good to you or me might be terrible to some folk so the whole domain is fraght. It is wothwhile doing some research or building theming in so user *can* make it look nice for them. My mate chooses a theme that looks horrible!

James
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So with the latest patch and rebuild, I can complete setup in webapp, no
mythtv-setup. That is good. Scanning for channels in the Input Connection
section is different right now. For HDHR tuners I have to import the list
of channels from the tuners, then fetch from the Video source. At that
point it's ready to move to the next section.

So now I'm playing with using the web app for daily stuff like checking the
guide and setting up recording. When I select a program I notice a new
section on the popup at the bottom for choosing a TV listing source and it
walks me through correctly setting up program id for the correct logo. It
has always been odd, to me, that a Program that is a remake of a 1980's
show will have the metadata from the 1980 show and not the current show.
This feature may fix that???

Jim A

On 6/2/23 06:28, James Abernathy wrote:
> So with the latest patch and rebuild, I can complete setup in webapp,
> no mythtv-setup.  That is good. Scanning for channels in the Input
> Connection section is different right now. For HDHR tuners I have to
> import the list of channels from the tuners, then fetch from the Video
> source. At that point it's ready to move to the next section.
>
> So now I'm playing with using the web app for daily stuff like
> checking the guide and setting up recording.  When I select a program
> I notice a new section on the popup at the bottom for choosing a TV
> listing source and it walks me through correctly setting up program id
> for the correct logo. It has always been odd, to me, that a Program
> that is a remake of a 1980's show will have the metadata from the 1980
> show and not the current show. This feature may fix that???
>
> Jim A
>
>
> _______________________________________________

Yes. If you select the correct numeric id for the remake, that will get
you the correct metadata for new recordings.

There is a similar feature in mythfrontend but it only allows use of the
provider you have selected as default in the frontend settings.

leanfront supports lookup on all three services. The page and code for
scheduling in the web app is based on the code in leanfront.

Peter


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I'm also no artist and don't program at the GUI level, but as a user I
think the mythweb interface is pretty good. For something thats used day
after day its much more pleasant to use. The previous backend at 6544 is
also not bad.

I would suggest either merging in the displays from mythweb, or just
supporting mythweb going forward. I'm sure there are more modern gui
toolkits, but mythweb is ok. (It would be nice to fix the broken
streaming/download pieces in it.)

At very least breaking up your upcoming and recordings tabs with day
separation would be useful.

I don't see any urgency on this as long as mythweb stays functional.

I think the setup functionality is great, and the graphics/gui  are of
little consequence for something one uses once or seldom.

Ken

Peter Bennett wrote on 6/1/23 20:38:
>
> On 6/1/23 20:20, Ken Mandelberg wrote:
>> Hi Peter
>>
>> I understand that the big win here is for setup. I've been mainly
>> trying it as a mythweb substitute. It does indeed display the same
>> data as mythweb in the same order. I may be being superficial but it
>> is much less pleasant to use then mythweb without the gui elements
>> and images. Is the plan to add that, or stick with text? That doesn't
>> matter for setup which is run once or seldom, but I use mythweb every
>> day.
>>
>> Ken
>>
> Hi Ken
>
> There is no specific plan for that. I am trying to put something
> together as quickly as possible.
>
> If you tell me precisely what you would like to see added I will do it
> once the basics are complete. I am afraid I am no artist, but if you
> think certain colors and other elements will improve it please let me
> know, but please be specific.
>
> Peter
>
>

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I just did a test of installing on a RPI4 4GB and configuring with webapp.
TL:DR it worked.

I started with Raspberry PI OS Lite and put that on a USB NVME drive.

1. update system
2. install using ansible, the dependencies
3. install mariadb-server
4. Built from source per wiki, but I forgot to create the user mythtv which
caused an issue when I tried to create the /srv/mythtv directories and
chown on them to mythtv. So I fixed that then.
4. On the pi console I ran mythbackend.
5. On a remote PC I ran Chrome and used the webapp to configure the backend
completely.

Some issues:
1. I've noticed that you can't use the browser refresh on a page like guide
and have it refresh the guide. it's just 404's. I was doing the refresh
while waiting for the EIT to update the listings.
2. Sometimes clicking on the restart backend fixes the issue and sometimes
you have to either reboot or CTRL-C out of mythbackend and rerun it.
3. If a long title on the recordings page or upcoming page doesn't fit, the
first line is cut in half. when I went full screen on the browser it fixed
it. Not sure if you have a way to make adjustments to font size or just
truncate to make the first 2 lines visible.

Jim A

On 6/2/23 14:38, James Abernathy wrote:
> I just did a test of installing on a RPI4 4GB and configuring with
> webapp.  TL:DR it worked.
>
> I started with Raspberry PI OS Lite and put that on a USB NVME drive.
>
> 1. update system
> 2. install using ansible, the dependencies
> 3. install mariadb-server
> 4. Built from source per wiki, but I forgot to create the user mythtv
> which caused an issue when I tried to create the /srv/mythtv
> directories and chown on them to mythtv. So I fixed that then.
> 4. On the pi console I ran mythbackend.
> 5. On a remote PC I ran Chrome and used the webapp to configure the
> backend completely.
>
> Some issues:
> 1. I've noticed that you can't use the browser refresh on a page like
> guide and have it refresh the guide. it's just 404's. I was doing the
> refresh while waiting for the EIT to update the listings.
Thanks for letting me know - I have fixed that now.
> 2. Sometimes clicking on the restart backend fixes the issue and
> sometimes you have to either reboot or CTRL-C out of mythbackend and
> rerun it.
Please can you explain. Are you saying that the "Restart Backend" button
does not actually restart the backend sometimes? Or is there another
issue? What sort of problem requires you to reboot?
> 3. If a long title on the recordings page or upcoming page doesn't
> fit, the first line is cut in half.  when I went full screen on the
> browser it fixed it.  Not sure if you have a way to make adjustments
> to font size or just truncate to make the first 2 lines visible.
>
I see the line overwriting, like this, see link below. Is that what you
mean? I will see if I can make it do something more reasonable, like
truncating the description.

https://i.imgur.com/ZPnMDoJ.jpg

Thank you for all the testing and the feedback!

Peter
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On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 5:20?PM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 6/2/23 14:38, James Abernathy wrote:
> > I just did a test of installing on a RPI4 4GB and configuring with
> > webapp. TL:DR it worked.
> >
> > I started with Raspberry PI OS Lite and put that on a USB NVME drive.
> >
> > 1. update system
> > 2. install using ansible, the dependencies
> > 3. install mariadb-server
> > 4. Built from source per wiki, but I forgot to create the user mythtv
> > which caused an issue when I tried to create the /srv/mythtv
> > directories and chown on them to mythtv. So I fixed that then.
> > 4. On the pi console I ran mythbackend.
> > 5. On a remote PC I ran Chrome and used the webapp to configure the
> > backend completely.
> >
> > Some issues:
> > 1. I've noticed that you can't use the browser refresh on a page like
> > guide and have it refresh the guide. it's just 404's. I was doing the
> > refresh while waiting for the EIT to update the listings.
> Thanks for letting me know - I have fixed that now.
> > 2. Sometimes clicking on the restart backend fixes the issue and
> > sometimes you have to either reboot or CTRL-C out of mythbackend and
> > rerun it.
> Please can you explain. Are you saying that the "Restart Backend" button
> does not actually restart the backend sometimes? Or is there another
> issue? What sort of problem requires you to reboot?
>

I'm not completely sure. I see the same thing when I complete setup using
mythtv-setup. Sometimes I can systemctl restart and sometimes I have to
reboot.
I'll try to do a fresh install now that I know what is supposed to happen
and pay more attention to the mythbackend console log.


> > 3. If a long title on the recordings page or upcoming page doesn't
> > fit, the first line is cut in half. when I went full screen on the
> > browser it fixed it. Not sure if you have a way to make adjustments
> > to font size or just truncate to make the first 2 lines visible.
> >
> I see the line overwriting, like this, see link below. Is that what you
> mean? I will see if I can make it do something more reasonable, like
> truncating the description.
>
> https://i.imgur.com/ZPnMDoJ.jpg


Very similar to that!

>
>
> Thank you for all the testing and the feedback!
>
> Peter
>

Glad to help with the testing. I only really have 2 jobs right now:
1. playing with projects on he PCs
2. tasting bourbon for the liquor industry.

Jim A

On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 8:20?PM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:

> There are instructions for developers that include the precise software
> versions we are using, at https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/WebApp_Development .

The project has previously stated that ansible
is the proper way to install the development
environment.

Now that you have stated that you have
decided not to support that (i.e. you are
choosing to abandon it for manual
instructions), I guess I will stop my
occasional PR's to update ansible. I
guess you will also be updating the wiki
to no longer recommend ansible now
that you have decided otherwise.

Thanks for the update!
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On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 6:19?AM Gary Buhrmaster <gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 8:20?PM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > There are instructions for developers that include the precise software
> > versions we are using, at https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/WebApp_Development
> .
>
> The project has previously stated that ansible
> is the proper way to install the development
> environment.
>
> Now that you have stated that you have
> decided not to support that (i.e. you are
> choosing to abandon it for manual
> instructions), I guess I will stop my
> occasional PR's to update ansible. I
> guess you will also be updating the wiki
> to no longer recommend ansible now
> that you have decided otherwise.
>
> Thanks for the update!
>
>
Dumb question for the peanut gallery. I know ansible is used when building
from source to install all the mythtv dependencies. It seems to be up to
date for most distros I use.

It seems that any additional packages needed to compile/build the addition
of the web app would need to be included in the ansible playbook for mythtv.

Did I miss something?

Jim A

On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 6:38?AM James Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 6:19?AM Gary Buhrmaster <gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 8:20?PM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > There are instructions for developers that include the precise software
>> > versions we are using, at https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/WebApp_Development .
>>
>> The project has previously stated that ansible
>> is the proper way to install the development
>> environment.
>>
>> Now that you have stated that you have
>> decided not to support that (i.e. you are
>> choosing to abandon it for manual
>> instructions), I guess I will stop my
>> occasional PR's to update ansible. I
>> guess you will also be updating the wiki
>> to no longer recommend ansible now
>> that you have decided otherwise.
>>
>> Thanks for the update!
>>
>
> Dumb question for the peanut gallery. I know ansible is used when building from source to install all the mythtv dependencies. It seems to be up to date for most distros I use.
>
> It seems that any additional packages needed to compile/build the addition of the web app would need to be included in the ansible playbook for mythtv.
>
> Did I miss something?

Peter said that you don't use ansible, you
now follow the instructions on the wiki.
That is a change in recommended practice.
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On 6/7/23 06:17, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
> On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 8:20?PM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There are instructions for developers that include the precise software
>> versions we are using, at https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/WebApp_Development .
> The project has previously stated that ansible
> is the proper way to install the development
> environment.
>
> Now that you have stated that you have
> decided not to support that (i.e. you are
> choosing to abandon it for manual
> instructions), I guess I will stop my
> occasional PR's to update ansible. I
> guess you will also be updating the wiki
> to no longer recommend ansible now
> that you have decided otherwise.
>
> Thanks for the update!
> _______________________________________________

Hi Gary

I am not announcing a new policy for MythTV.

I am not the project leader of MythTV and I don't make policy decisions.

Stuart asked for volunteers to help with the new web app. I volunteered
a year ago and since then I am the only person to have developed it.

I am developing it according to instructions from Stuart and Paul. That
wiki page was set up by them.

I will ask Stuart and Paul to respond to your comments.

Peter

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> On 7 Jun 2023, at 6:51 pm, Gary Buhrmaster <gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 6:38?AM James Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com <mailto:jfabernathy@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 6:19?AM Gary Buhrmaster <gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 8:20?PM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There are instructions for developers that include the precise software
>>>> versions we are using, at https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/WebApp_Development .
>>>
>>> The project has previously stated that ansible
>>> is the proper way to install the development
>>> environment.
>>>
>>> Now that you have stated that you have
>>> decided not to support that (i.e. you are
>>> choosing to abandon it for manual
>>> instructions), I guess I will stop my
>>> occasional PR's to update ansible. I
>>> guess you will also be updating the wiki
>>> to no longer recommend ansible now
>>> that you have decided otherwise.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the update!
>>>
>>
>> Dumb question for the peanut gallery. I know ansible is used when building from source to install all the mythtv dependencies. It seems to be up to date for most distros I use.
>>
>> It seems that any additional packages needed to compile/build the addition of the web app would need to be included in the ansible playbook for mythtv.
>>
>> Did I miss something?
>
> Peter said that you don't use ansible, you
> now follow the instructions on the wiki.
> That is a change in recommended practice.

Peter it is meet and right that a developer, especially one making a signifiant contribution, should use whatever tools that they fancy.
Debian is anal about non-foss. I, and I guess that many folk here, am anal about the Borg. So having Visual Studio as a development requirement is a great pity: It means I will never build, and depending on the run environment may never use the tool.
James

On 6/7/23 06:51, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 6:38?AM James Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 6:19?AM Gary Buhrmaster <gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 8:20?PM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There are instructions for developers that include the precise software
>>>> versions we are using, at https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/WebApp_Development .
>>> The project has previously stated that ansible
>>> is the proper way to install the development
>>> environment.
>>>
>>> Now that you have stated that you have
>>> decided not to support that (i.e. you are
>>> choosing to abandon it for manual
>>> instructions), I guess I will stop my
>>> occasional PR's to update ansible. I
>>> guess you will also be updating the wiki
>>> to no longer recommend ansible now
>>> that you have decided otherwise.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the update!
>>>
>> Dumb question for the peanut gallery. I know ansible is used when building from source to install all the mythtv dependencies. It seems to be up to date for most distros I use.
>>
>> It seems that any additional packages needed to compile/build the addition of the web app would need to be included in the ansible playbook for mythtv.
>>
>> Did I miss something?
> Peter said that you don't use ansible, you
> now follow the instructions on the wiki.
> That is a change in recommended practice.
> _______________________________________________

The web app is built by the developer (me) and the generated javascript
files are added to git. It does not change the process for building
MythTV. It has been this way since 2015 with the original web app (the
one on port 6544).

You can continue building the way you always have.

Peter

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> On 7 Jun 2023, at 9:45 pm, Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 6/7/23 06:51, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 6:38?AM James Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 6:19?AM Gary Buhrmaster <gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 8:20?PM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There are instructions for developers that include the precise software
>>>>> versions we are using, at https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/WebApp_Development .
>>>> The project has previously stated that ansible
>>>> is the proper way to install the development
>>>> environment.
>>>>
>>>> Now that you have stated that you have
>>>> decided not to support that (i.e. you are
>>>> choosing to abandon it for manual
>>>> instructions), I guess I will stop my
>>>> occasional PR's to update ansible. I
>>>> guess you will also be updating the wiki
>>>> to no longer recommend ansible now
>>>> that you have decided otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the update!
>>>>
>>> Dumb question for the peanut gallery. I know ansible is used when building from source to install all the mythtv dependencies. It seems to be up to date for most distros I use.
>>>
>>> It seems that any additional packages needed to compile/build the addition of the web app would need to be included in the ansible playbook for mythtv.
>>>
>>> Did I miss something?
>> Peter said that you don't use ansible, you
>> now follow the instructions on the wiki.
>> That is a change in recommended practice.
>> _______________________________________________
>
> The web app is built by the developer (me) and the generated javascript files are added to git. It does not change the process for building MythTV. It has been this way since 2015 with the original web app (the one on port 6544).
>
> You can continue building the way you always have.

I did confess to being anal, I'm much happier
Thanks
James

On 6/7/23 09:43, James wrote:
>
>
>> On 7 Jun 2023, at 6:51 pm, Gary Buhrmaster
>> <gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 6:38?AM James Abernathy
>> <jfabernathy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 6:19?AM Gary Buhrmaster
>>> <gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 8:20?PM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There are instructions for developers that include the precise
>>>>> software
>>>>> versions we are using, at
>>>>> https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/WebApp_Development .
>>>>
>>>> The project has previously stated that ansible
>>>> is the proper way to install the development
>>>> environment.
>>>>
>>>> Now that you have stated that you have
>>>> decided not to support that (i.e. you are
>>>> choosing to abandon it for manual
>>>> instructions), I guess I will stop my
>>>> occasional PR's to update ansible. I
>>>> guess you will also be updating the wiki
>>>> to no longer recommend ansible now
>>>> that you have decided otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the update!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Dumb question for the peanut gallery. I know ansible is used when
>>> building from source to install all the mythtv dependencies. It
>>> seems to be up to date for most distros I use.
>>>
>>> It seems that any additional packages needed to compile/build the
>>> addition of the web app would need to be included in the ansible
>>> playbook for mythtv.
>>>
>>> Did I miss something?
>>
>> Peter said that you don't use ansible, you
>> now follow the instructions on the wiki.
>> That is a change in recommended practice.
>
> Peter it is meet and right that a developer, especially one making a
> signifiant contribution, should use whatever tools that they fancy.
> Debian is anal about non-foss. I, and I guess that many folk here, am
> anal about the Borg. So having Visual Studio as a development
> requirement is a great pity: It means I will never build, and
> depending on the run environment may never use the tool.
> James
>
Since Bill Gates left Microsoft, it has become much friendlier. Linux is
no longer the great Satan. You can download a free copy of Windows that
does not need a product key to install and use it.

The free Visual Studio for Linux is an excellent tool. The Visual Studio
plugins are really professional quality and speed up development greatly

There is no requirement to use it, any editor will do. There are other
editors for Angular. The one from jetbrains is probably a good one. It
is $15 per month per user.

You don't need any of these tools to build or install MythTV or to use
the web app. The generated javascript is already in github, and is
installed when you install MythTV. You will need some tools if you want
to develop the web app.

Peter

On 07/06/2023 14:22, Peter Bennett wrote:

>
> On 6/7/23 06:17, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
>> On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 8:20?PM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> There are instructions for developers that include the precise software
>>> versions we are using, at
>>> https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/WebApp_Development .
>> The project has previously stated that ansible
>> is the proper way to install the development
>> environment.
>>
>> Now that you have stated that you have
>> decided not to support that (i.e. you are
>> choosing to abandon it for manual
>> instructions), I guess I will stop my
>> occasional PR's to update ansible.  I
>> guess you will also be updating the wiki
>> to no longer recommend ansible now
>> that you have decided otherwise.
>>
>> Thanks for the update!
>> _______________________________________________
>
> Hi Gary
>
> I am not announcing a new policy for MythTV.
>
> I am not the project leader of MythTV and I don't make policy decisions.
>
> Stuart asked for volunteers to help with the new web app. I
> volunteered a year ago and since then I am the only person to have
> developed it.
>
> I am developing it according to instructions from Stuart and Paul.
> That wiki page was set up by them.
>
> I will ask Stuart and Paul to respond to your comments.
>
> Peter
>
>

I should say I'm semi retired when it comes to MythTV development and so
I am no longer following things as closely as I was so some things may
have changed. I've got to say threads like these with all the FUD that
comes with them make it an easy decision to do some DIY and watch my
paint dry rather than contribute to MythTV development ;)


I'm not aware of any policy that says you must use Ansible to build or
install dependencies for Mythtv. I believe the only official way to
build from source is to use ./configure and see what missing
dependencies it complains about. I know a few devs use Ansible to aid
installing the dependencies and have made some resources available for
others to use but that but that is a fairly new thing. I know a few
users like Gary have contributed updates to add or fix support for some
distro's and they are always appreciated. There is no problem there if
you want to use Ansible then that is fine but I don't think it has ever
been a MythTV policy that you _have_ to use it. I would argue Ubuntu
users would be better to use apt-get build-dep since that would install
all the same build dependencies used to build the PPA packages so is
pretty much guaranteed to work but that would be my personal preference.


As for the WebApp as Peter explained we regularly  build the single page
WebApp which gets installed as part of the normal ./configure, make,
make install process so for most users even those who compile from
source there is no need for any extra build dependencies for the WebApp.
The only users who need to install some extra dependencies are those who
want to help develop the WebApp so they can make changes and later
rebuild it to test them out. Most of the dependencies can be installed
using npm install which will make sure everyone is using the same
versions of all the modules.


There seems to be a misunderstanding you have to use Visual Studio to
compile or work on MythTV but that's not true, nothing has changed you
can use what ever editor or IDE you want. VSC is NOT required to build
MythTV or the WebApp.  Stuart and I both used VSC while doing the
initial development of the WebApp and found it a useful free tool to aid
development that's why the wiki page mentions it but you can use
whatever IDE you want.


I think we just wanted to make it as easy as possible for users to try
the new WebApp so that is why we added the pre-built WebApp to the
source and install it as part of the normal install process since
building it can be a little bit of a pain to get the correct version of
nodejs installed for example. Is there a problem with the pre-build
WebApp does it not work for some users or something? Just trying to
understand what all the hostility is all about!


I think you all should be thanking Peter for all the hard work he has
put in to the WebApp not shoot him in the back.


Paul H.

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On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 1:47?PM Paul Harrison <mythtv@mythqml.net> wrote:

>
>
> I think you all should be thanking Peter for all the hard work he has
> put in to the WebApp not shoot him in the back.
>
>
> Paul H.
>
>
Paul,

You are so right. Peter's new Web App is almost complete. I've been having
a lot of fun testing the daily improvements that are coming out. At this
point I have not used the mythtv-setup for a week. It's a perfect match for
Ubuntu systems that are using the PPA for installation. For systems that
you build from source, it also works well with a few existing requirements
related to installing mysql or mariadb, etc.

Thanks a lot Peter,

Jim A

> Wiadomo?? napisana przez Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> w dniu 07.06.2023, o godz. 16:22:
>
>
> On 6/7/23 06:17, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
>> On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 8:20?PM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> There are instructions for developers that include the precise software
>>> versions we are using, at https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/WebApp_Development .
>> The project has previously stated that ansible
>> is the proper way to install the development
>> environment.
>>
>> Now that you have stated that you have
>> decided not to support that (i.e. you are
>> choosing to abandon it for manual
>> instructions), I guess I will stop my
>> occasional PR's to update ansible. I
>> guess you will also be updating the wiki
>> to no longer recommend ansible now
>> that you have decided otherwise.
>>
>> Thanks for the update!
>> _______________________________________________
>
> Hi Gary
>
> I am not announcing a new policy for MythTV.
>
> I am not the project leader of MythTV and I don't make policy decisions.
>
> Stuart asked for volunteers to help with the new web app. I volunteered a year ago and since then I am the only person to have developed it.
>
> I am developing it according to instructions from Stuart and Paul. That wiki page was set up by them.
>
> I will ask Stuart and Paul to respond to your comments.
>
> Peter
>

Huh

This make me really sad…

In all other projects I’m collaborating/contributing I see quite clear rule: given developer received respect is proportional to this developer contribution. I mean real contribution.

Keeping in in mind that word „contribution” may mean various things (one may contribute by commits with spellchecking; other may contribute by writing totally new functionalities…) - imho - Peter's contribution is clearly in second group and I'm personally giving Peter’s work top score.

In this context - a bit sarcastic remarks about non-compliance with automating devel env. setup rules are counterproductive.
It is like saying to somebody who already built whole house: you used non-optimal toolbox to keeping tools used to build house.

May we be more supportive for anybody who makes MythTV project _really better_?






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On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 12:00?AM James Linder <jam@tigger.ws> wrote:

>
>
> > On 2 Jun 2023, at 8:38 am, Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Peter
> >>
> >> I understand that the big win here is for setup. I've been mainly
> trying it as a mythweb substitute. It does indeed display the same data as
> mythweb in the same order. I may be being superficial but it is much less
> pleasant to use then mythweb without the gui elements and images. Is the
> plan to add that, or stick with text? That doesn't matter for setup which
> is run once or seldom, but I use mythweb every day.
> >>
> >> Ken
> >>
> > Hi Ken
> >
> > There is no specific plan for that. I am trying to put something
> together as quickly as possible.
> >
> > If you tell me precisely what you would like to see added I will do it
> once the basics are complete. I am afraid I am no artist, but if you think
> certain colors and other elements will improve it please let me know, but
> please be specific.
>
>
> Just being an AH here ….
>
> 1 in 7 males are part colour blind!
> So colours that look good to you or me might be terrible to some folk so
> the whole domain is fraght. It is wothwhile doing some research or building
> theming in so user *can* make it look nice for them. My mate chooses a
> theme that looks horrible!
>
>

On the topic of colors - the US has accessibility 508 standards that are
applied across the board in many places in your everyday life. These apply
to websites as well. I think every front-end developer in general (mythtv
or not) should do themselves a favor and get familiar with them.

From the section508.gov website is a pdf on color in graphical design:
https://webcube-general.s3.amazonaws.com/eizo/media/contentassets/2015/10/09/handbook.pdf
the source for that pdf is this page:
https://www.section508.gov/blog/Universal-Design-What-is-it/


The US has an official Web Design System that has a focus on accessibility,
and here is a link to their docs on Using Color:
https://designsystem.digital.gov/design-tokens/color/overview/

At the bottom of that color link is a Further reading section - lots of
great information there as well.

On a related note, the sidebar from above also has a link for Typesetting.


A lot of the UI libraries out there bake in a lot of standards by default
(including colors) so I think it's easier than ever nowadays to make an
accessible site.

If anyone wants to theme the new webapp, Peter is using PrimeNG, and you
can already pick one of many preset themes using the icon in the top right
of the toolbar, and PrimeNG has a visual theme editor on their site if you
are interested in designing your own theme.


Happy coloring everyone!
Steve