Mailing List Archive

ATSC3 - Hearst stations turning on encryption
A big picture/future question here. I'm a Canadian so I'm not up on
the FCC rules but thought the main licensed channel (eg ABC, CBS, FOX,
NBC, PBS) had to be carried in the open.

Anyway, it looks like Hearst owned stations in Orlando and Tampa have
turned on encryption on their ATSC3 signals. Silicondust says their
hardware/software will be able to handle it, but I think the
suggestion was the licensing would effectively end third party access
for software like MythTV.

I know the ATSC 2.0 signals are still around, but is it safe to assume
that years down the line the corps will freeze out the open source OTA
DVR crowdt? Again, not my area of expertise so I'm interested to hear
what people think.

See: https://forum.silicondust.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=133&sid=51e773e9773de4ae85ea3e4f7c4647a8
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Re: ATSC3 - Hearst stations turning on encryption [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 8:05 PM Ian Evans <dheianevans@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A big picture/future question here. I'm a Canadian so I'm not up on
> the FCC rules but thought the main licensed channel (eg ABC, CBS, FOX,
> NBC, PBS) had to be carried in the open.

It is (very very) complicated and has been discussed
in the list in the past, but with digital broadcasting and
sub-channels almost any channel can be designated
as the "main" channel for purposes of meeting the FCC
requirements to maintain its broadcast license (as long
as it serves the public good, which is a different kettle
of worms). And, of course, with almost all (two exceptions
known, and I think one may have lost a partial waiver)
being lighthouse stations, pretty much all the stations
which have broadcast network affiliations are sharing
the same transmitter, so almost all are secondary.

> Anyway, it looks like Hearst owned stations in Orlando and Tampa have
> turned on encryption on their ATSC3 signals.

Quite honestly, I expected a lot more stations would
have at least experimented with protected path required
content during their initial testing phases (as being
able to understand the issues is going to be important
moving forward whether or not they eventually decide
to make some content protected). For example, it
turns out that a major TV manufacturer's firmware
did not work, and required an update, but that was
not seen until recently because no one had tried it.

> Silicondust says their
> hardware/software will be able to handle it, but I think the
> suggestion was the licensing would effectively end third party access
> for software like MythTV.

Only solutions that implement and obtain
certification as supporting a protected content
path will work (in ATSC 3.0 terms, that is A3SA).
In practice open source products are not going
to work directly in that environment any more
than they can record protected path required
cable channels, which have essentially the same
overall requirement (given that many stations
may eventually simulcast their content over the
internet in addition to OTA, for coverage reasons,
things may get interesting, but I sort of expect
a widevine L1 requirement if/when some
stations try that if they also require a protected
content path).

> I know the ATSC 2.0 signals are still around

ATSC 2.0 never happened (although some of
the ideas were integrated into nextgen TV) there
is only ATSC 1.0, and now ATSC 3.0. It is
expected ATSC 1.0 will be around for an
extended period, as the FCC has no deadlines,
only minimum allowed times as to when ATSC
1.0 must still be transmitted (which is at least
5 years, but in practice is going to be a lot
longer (probably at least a decade), although
perhaps as a reverse lighthouse).

> but is it safe to assume
> that years down the line the corps will freeze out the open source OTA
> DVR crowdt?

As mentioned previously, it is complicated, but
some content may likely stay accessible, and
some content may not. And it might even
depend on resolution (it is possible to let people
view "SD"/"HD" quality and require a license and
protected content path for "QHD"/"UHD"/"4K"
quality (should any of that ever exist)).


Whether any OTA content will be worth recording
(as many/most content owners are moving to a
paid, or (unskipable) ad supported, streaming
model for any of their more premium content)
is a different matter. There are some who think
the networks will be essentially gone in something
over a decade, as the next set of major sport
league contracts will almost certainly not
include network exclusivity, and that is one
of their primary known hooks on viewers. And
given the increasing costs of scripted TV, and
that the advertisers are paying less and less as
viewer numbers go down and as people skip the
ads[0], it is likely that reality programming will
eventually dominate. It is not at all clear if there
are enough people who need to watch how Gordon
Ramsey will humiliate contestants this week to
sustain a network schedule. At least one network
said the quiet part out loud and suggested a first
pullback and cutting a third of their content hours
soon (others have unofficially talked the same),
although they eventually pulled back on the
suggestion (but what is old will be new again).





[0] Did Autohop, TiVo, and other ad-skipping solutions
kill the OTA ad supported revenue model? Discuss!
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Re: ATSC3 - Hearst stations turning on encryption [ In reply to ]
I think we're seeing the death of the broadcast model in slow motion. Most
new content is developed for streaming platforms. Almost nothing new on
basic cable but reality TV.

Steve Greene
(301) 842-8923
historicity.co
An independent archival professional specializing in still photography,
moving images and recorded sound.


On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 1:38 PM Gary Buhrmaster <gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 8:05 PM Ian Evans <dheianevans@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > A big picture/future question here. I'm a Canadian so I'm not up on
> > the FCC rules but thought the main licensed channel (eg ABC, CBS, FOX,
> > NBC, PBS) had to be carried in the open.
>
> It is (very very) complicated and has been discussed
> in the list in the past, but with digital broadcasting and
> sub-channels almost any channel can be designated
> as the "main" channel for purposes of meeting the FCC
> requirements to maintain its broadcast license (as long
> as it serves the public good, which is a different kettle
> of worms). And, of course, with almost all (two exceptions
> known, and I think one may have lost a partial waiver)
> being lighthouse stations, pretty much all the stations
> which have broadcast network affiliations are sharing
> the same transmitter, so almost all are secondary.
>
> > Anyway, it looks like Hearst owned stations in Orlando and Tampa have
> > turned on encryption on their ATSC3 signals.
>
> Quite honestly, I expected a lot more stations would
> have at least experimented with protected path required
> content during their initial testing phases (as being
> able to understand the issues is going to be important
> moving forward whether or not they eventually decide
> to make some content protected). For example, it
> turns out that a major TV manufacturer's firmware
> did not work, and required an update, but that was
> not seen until recently because no one had tried it.
>
> > Silicondust says their
> > hardware/software will be able to handle it, but I think the
> > suggestion was the licensing would effectively end third party access
> > for software like MythTV.
>
> Only solutions that implement and obtain
> certification as supporting a protected content
> path will work (in ATSC 3.0 terms, that is A3SA).
> In practice open source products are not going
> to work directly in that environment any more
> than they can record protected path required
> cable channels, which have essentially the same
> overall requirement (given that many stations
> may eventually simulcast their content over the
> internet in addition to OTA, for coverage reasons,
> things may get interesting, but I sort of expect
> a widevine L1 requirement if/when some
> stations try that if they also require a protected
> content path).
>
> > I know the ATSC 2.0 signals are still around
>
> ATSC 2.0 never happened (although some of
> the ideas were integrated into nextgen TV) there
> is only ATSC 1.0, and now ATSC 3.0. It is
> expected ATSC 1.0 will be around for an
> extended period, as the FCC has no deadlines,
> only minimum allowed times as to when ATSC
> 1.0 must still be transmitted (which is at least
> 5 years, but in practice is going to be a lot
> longer (probably at least a decade), although
> perhaps as a reverse lighthouse).
>
> > but is it safe to assume
> > that years down the line the corps will freeze out the open source OTA
> > DVR crowdt?
>
> As mentioned previously, it is complicated, but
> some content may likely stay accessible, and
> some content may not. And it might even
> depend on resolution (it is possible to let people
> view "SD"/"HD" quality and require a license and
> protected content path for "QHD"/"UHD"/"4K"
> quality (should any of that ever exist)).
>
>
> Whether any OTA content will be worth recording
> (as many/most content owners are moving to a
> paid, or (unskipable) ad supported, streaming
> model for any of their more premium content)
> is a different matter. There are some who think
> the networks will be essentially gone in something
> over a decade, as the next set of major sport
> league contracts will almost certainly not
> include network exclusivity, and that is one
> of their primary known hooks on viewers. And
> given the increasing costs of scripted TV, and
> that the advertisers are paying less and less as
> viewer numbers go down and as people skip the
> ads[0], it is likely that reality programming will
> eventually dominate. It is not at all clear if there
> are enough people who need to watch how Gordon
> Ramsey will humiliate contestants this week to
> sustain a network schedule. At least one network
> said the quiet part out loud and suggested a first
> pullback and cutting a third of their content hours
> soon (others have unofficially talked the same),
> although they eventually pulled back on the
> suggestion (but what is old will be new again).
>
>
>
>
>
> [0] Did Autohop, TiVo, and other ad-skipping solutions
> kill the OTA ad supported revenue model? Discuss!
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>
Re: ATSC3 - Hearst stations turning on encryption [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 1:36 PM Gary Buhrmaster, <gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 8:05 PM Ian Evans <dheianevans@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > A big picture/future question here. I'm a Canadian so I'm not up on
> > the FCC rules but thought the main licensed channel (eg ABC, CBS, FOX,
> > NBC, PBS) had to be carried in the open.
>
> It is (very very) complicated and has been discussed
> in the list in the past, but with digital broadcasting and
> sub-channels almost any channel can be designated
> as the "main" channel for purposes of meeting the FCC
> requirements to maintain its broadcast license (as long
> as it serves the public good, which is a different kettle
> of worms). And, of course, with almost all (two exceptions
> known, and I think one may have lost a partial waiver)
> being lighthouse stations, pretty much all the stations
> which have broadcast network affiliations are sharing
> the same transmitter, so almost all are secondary.
>
> > Anyway, it looks like Hearst owned stations in Orlando and Tampa have
> > turned on encryption on their ATSC3 signals.
>
> Quite honestly, I expected a lot more stations would
> have at least experimented with protected path required
> content during their initial testing phases (as being
> able to understand the issues is going to be important
> moving forward whether or not they eventually decide
> to make some content protected). For example, it
> turns out that a major TV manufacturer's firmware
> did not work, and required an update, but that was
> not seen until recently because no one had tried it.
>
> > Silicondust says their
> > hardware/software will be able to handle it, but I think the
> > suggestion was the licensing would effectively end third party access
> > for software like MythTV.
>
> Only solutions that implement and obtain
> certification as supporting a protected content
> path will work (in ATSC 3.0 terms, that is A3SA).
> In practice open source products are not going
> to work directly in that environment any more
> than they can record protected path required
> cable channels, which have essentially the same
> overall requirement (given that many stations
> may eventually simulcast their content over the
> internet in addition to OTA, for coverage reasons,
> things may get interesting, but I sort of expect
> a widevine L1 requirement if/when some
> stations try that if they also require a protected
> content path).
>
> > I know the ATSC 2.0 signals are still around
>
> ATSC 2.0 never happened (although some of
> the ideas were integrated into nextgen TV) there
> is only ATSC 1.0, and now ATSC 3.0. It is
> expected ATSC 1.0 will be around for an
> extended period, as the FCC has no deadlines,
> only minimum allowed times as to when ATSC
> 1.0 must still be transmitted (which is at least
> 5 years, but in practice is going to be a lot
> longer (probably at least a decade), although
> perhaps as a reverse lighthouse).
>
> > but is it safe to assume
> > that years down the line the corps will freeze out the open source OTA
> > DVR crowdt?
>
> As mentioned previously, it is complicated, but
> some content may likely stay accessible, and
> some content may not. And it might even
> depend on resolution (it is possible to let people
> view "SD"/"HD" quality and require a license and
> protected content path for "QHD"/"UHD"/"4K"
> quality (should any of that ever exist)).
>
>
> Whether any OTA content will be worth recording
> (as many/most content owners are moving to a
> paid, or (unskipable) ad supported, streaming
> model for any of their more premium content)
> is a different matter. There are some who think
> the networks will be essentially gone in something
> over a decade, as the next set of major sport
> league contracts will almost certainly not
> include network exclusivity, and that is one
> of their primary known hooks on viewers. And
> given the increasing costs of scripted TV, and
> that the advertisers are paying less and less as
> viewer numbers go down and as people skip the
> ads[0], it is likely that reality programming will
> eventually dominate. It is not at all clear if there
> are enough people who need to watch how Gordon
> Ramsey will humiliate contestants this week to
> sustain a network schedule. At least one network
> said the quiet part out loud and suggested a first
> pullback and cutting a third of their content hours
> soon (others have unofficially talked the same),
> although they eventually pulled back on the
> suggestion (but what is old will be new again).
>
>
>
>
>
> [0] Did Autohop, TiVo, and other ad-skipping solutions
> kill the OTA ad supported revenue model? Discuss!
>
>
Gary: Thanks, as always, for the detailed response. And, yes, I meant ATSC
1 not 2.

As mentioned, I've been away from my Mythbox for a bit and just started
futzing around with a laptop and homerun. My focus as a reviewer has been
on home entertainment releases, so looking at the TV schedule in MythTV,
I've noticed that I'm more drawn to the retro subs, where I can record
"comfort food" sitcoms that don't have a DVD or Blu-ray release. Agree with
you 100% that so much of network programming now looks like the fake shows
that would be airing on 30 Rock: "Next week on Cougar Island..."

>
>
Re: ATSC3 - Hearst stations turning on encryption [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 7:40 PM Ian Evans <dheianevans@gmail.com> wrote:

> Agree with you 100% that so much of network programming now looks like the fake shows that would be airing on 30 Rock: "Next week on Cougar Island..."

There is still a variety of various drama/comedy/dramedy
programming on networks and cable channels that is
watched, but none of those shows are likely to be around
in another decade (even The Simpsons is likely to end
before then), so the question is more about what is
next. And reality shows are far cheaper to produce
(taking advantage of people's desire for their 15 minutes
of fame to perform) than scripted TV which has tended to
make a profit not when initially broadcast on network TV
but only if it can be later sold into syndication, which used
to be good enough, but now not so much (content creators
want to be paid more upfront, as many shows will not
make it into syndication, and the studios are less willing
to take a loss today to possibly make money tomorrow).
It does not help that the demand for scripted TV from the
deep pocketed (Apple, Netflix, Amazon, HBO, etc.) have
driven up the costs of production of scripted TV across
the board dramatically, and with their money, and offers
of artistic freedom, attracted a lot of the top talent.

The death of network TV has been predicted regularly,
and mostly been wrong. “It's tough to make predictions,
especially about the future".
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