Mailing List Archive: Going wireless/diskless, and some assorted hardware questions

Going wireless/diskless, and some assorted hardware questions

Jun 4, 2003, 10:54 AM

Post #1 of 5 (1646 views)

Greetings, I've been checking the archives, and I've seen a few people
mention using wireless networking, but I was wondering if anyone has also
set up a diskless box that is also wireless, and if they'd care to share
their thoughts/experiences/rants/fears/warnings.

I've been searching around for quite a while, and just stumbled upon MythTV.
I was figuring I'd have to use an embedded linux distro with one of the
boxes on linux-devices.com. The problem with all of those is that they are
mostly stripped down boxes, and don't quite have that "do every damn thing I
want" that it looks like MythTV has.

Anyhoo, I'm in the process of researching this thing right now, to make sure
I don't buy any parts that turn out useless. So far, here's a few questions
I have (if they've already been answered, my apologies, just ignore them):

1. Most of the setup docs suggest using two cards, one for display, one for
capture. I just want a sanity check: The capture card can be PCI rather AGP,
correct? (I've never seen a mobo with 2 AGP slots, and since you are only
capturing with the PCI card, I assume this shouldn't be an issue.)

2. Networking: The mini-itx case/mobo's I've looked at only have one PCI
slot, which will probably be taken up by the capture card, so I'd be using
the onboard lan to connect to an 802.11b/g converter. What transfer rate
would I need if I wanted to go completely disklesss? (I'm trying to figure
if it's feasable to store everything in one central place, and just boot
this box, or even multiple boxes from that backend).

3. Wireless kb/mice. Wondering if anybody has any luck with these under
linux. This isn't really MythTV related, and I'll be looking in the usual
haunts for info on this, but if you do care to share, I'm all ears.

4. Mini-itx case/mobo retailers. If you have any online retailers you can
suggest, it would be appreciated. None of the online comp places I frequent
have much in this form factor.

Thanks for any data points you care to share. Here's what I'm considering
for now:
Mini-ITX case, AMD based mobo (preferably NForce2 with decent onboard audio)
AMD XP 2x00 (probably 2600, or whatever is in the $80 - 90 range when I
jump)
WinTV capture card (the hauppage seems quite highly recommended here)
TV Out AGP video card (I have a GeForce 5200 that I can use already, but
will buy another if need be)
Wireless eth2wifi adapter
DirecTV low speed network adapter (from the website mentioned here)
USB Wireless kb/mouse (optional, but would love to use SSH from the comfort
of my couch ;p)
Gentoo linux, probably a minimal windo wmanager (blackbox , IceWM, etc.)

I currently have a headless linux box (an old AMD K6-2 350) and a newer dual
boot (Abit NF7s-v2, XP2600), that I could set up DHCP and file server on.
--
Latka;

RE: Going wireless/diskless, and some assorted hardware questions [ In reply to ]

jcaputo1 at comcast

Jun 4, 2003, 11:26 AM

Post #2 of 5 (1606 views)

Permalink

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net
> [mailto:mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net]On Behalf Of Latka
> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 1:55 PM
> To: MythTV-Users List
> Subject: [mythtv-users] Going wireless/diskless, and some assorted
> hardware questions
>
>
> 1. Most of the setup docs suggest using two cards, one for
> display, one for
> capture. I just want a sanity check: The capture card can be PCI
> rather AGP,
> correct? (I've never seen a mobo with 2 AGP slots, and since you are only
> capturing with the PCI card, I assume this shouldn't be an issue.)

AFAIK, there aren't any AGP capture cards, unless maybe the ATI TV Wonder
series makes an AGP card (but see the archives for how/whether they can be
used under Linux). For the video card (TV-out), you can have either PCI or
AGP.
>
> 2. Networking: The mini-itx case/mobo's I've looked at only have one PCI
> slot, which will probably be taken up by the capture card, so I'd be using
> the onboard lan to connect to an 802.11b/g converter. What transfer rate
> would I need if I wanted to go completely disklesss? (I'm trying to figure
> if it's feasable to store everything in one central place, and just boot
> this box, or even multiple boxes from that backend).

Some people report that they can eke sufficient performance out of an
802.11b network, but most recommend a wired 100Mbit setup.

If you want a small, quiet & diskless frontend, you don't really need to
have a tuner card in it... the tuner card(s) can be in the backend with the
disk. The frontend only needs network + TVout + audio out.

>
> 3. Wireless kb/mice. Wondering if anybody has any luck with these under
> linux. This isn't really MythTV related, and I'll be looking in the usual
> haunts for info on this, but if you do care to share, I'm all ears.

I have a Gryation (http://www.gyration.com) RF keyboard & mouse. Retail is
about $99 USD. They work great under Linux as long as you configure your
kernel for USB HID support. I wouldn't rely on them for gaming, though, as
it seems to sometimes miss a key.

>
> I currently have a headless linux box (an old AMD K6-2 350) and a
> newer dual
> boot (Abit NF7s-v2, XP2600), that I could set up DHCP and file server on.

You could put the tuner card(s) in the XP2600 box and just use the Mini-ITX
setup as a frontend. In that case, 802.11b will just barely (if even) be
adequate... you'd probably want at least 802.11g or wired 100Mbit between
your frontend & backend.

-JAC

Re: Going wireless/diskless, and some assorted hardware questions [ In reply to ]

cmisip at insightbb

Jun 4, 2003, 1:07 PM

Post #3 of 5 (1611 views)

Permalink

On Wed, 2003-06-04 at 12:54, Latka wrote:
> Greetings, I've been checking the archives, and I've seen a few people
> mention using wireless networking, but I was wondering if anyone has also
> set up a diskless box that is also wireless, and if they'd care to share
> their thoughts/experiences/rants/fears/warnings.
>
> I've been searching around for quite a while, and just stumbled upon MythTV.
> I was figuring I'd have to use an embedded linux distro with one of the
> boxes on linux-devices.com. The problem with all of those is that they are
> mostly stripped down boxes, and don't quite have that "do every damn thing I
> want" that it looks like MythTV has.

I use Redhat 9. Very Stable. The location of qt3 has changed though
but it is qt 3.1.

>
> Anyhoo, I'm in the process of researching this thing right now, to make sure
> I don't buy any parts that turn out useless. So far, here's a few questions
> I have (if they've already been answered, my apologies, just ignore them):
>
> 1. Most of the setup docs suggest using two cards, one for display, one for
> capture. I just want a sanity check: The capture card can be PCI rather AGP,
> correct? (I've never seen a mobo with 2 AGP slots, and since you are only
> capturing with the PCI card, I assume this shouldn't be an issue.)
>
The capture card is PCI. I think you can get ati cards which are both
display and capture device but good luck running them in linux. I use
an ati tv wonder and ati tv wonder ve for capture and any geforce card
with tv out should work.

> 2. Networking: The mini-itx case/mobo's I've looked at only have one PCI
> slot, which will probably be taken up by the capture card, so I'd be using
> the onboard lan to connect to an 802.11b/g converter. What transfer rate
> would I need if I wanted to go completely disklesss? (I'm trying to figure
> if it's feasable to store everything in one central place, and just boot
> this box, or even multiple boxes from that backend).
>

I have tried using wireless 802.11b, but the connection is inconsistent
and the video is choppy ( pre .8 mythtv). Maybe the g cards or the
airexpress d link if there are linux drivers might have enough
bandwidth. I dont know though. Homepna worked pre .8 ( the 10 mbit
kind) but is now choppy also. Currently using a 100 mbit connection via
ethernet cable with videos in a central location. I can access the
videos as if they are local. My version of myth has problems though if
I enable preview of videos in the remote frontend so I just use pixmaps
there.

> 3. Wireless kb/mice. Wondering if anybody has any luck with these under
> linux. This isn't really MythTV related, and I'll be looking in the usual
> haunts for info on this, but if you do care to share, I'm all ears.
>

Use a logitech wireless mouse and keyboard. They work fine. the base
station is hooked up via ps2 port. Also tried a microsoft wireless
mouse via usb and that works too. The later the kernel, the better the
support for the devices( especially usb). You really dont need a
keyboard or mouse if you have finnished configuring your box. One of my
frontend boxes is like this. I access it via ssh from my laptop to make
changes to the configuration. Otherwise I use a remote to navigate
MythTV.

> 4. Mini-itx case/mobo retailers. If you have any online retailers you can
> suggest, it would be appreciated. None of the online comp places I frequent
> have much in this form factor.
>
> Thanks for any data points you care to share. Here's what I'm considering
> for now:
> Mini-ITX case, AMD based mobo (preferably NForce2 with decent onboard audio)
> AMD XP 2x00 (probably 2600, or whatever is in the $80 - 90 range when I
> jump)
> WinTV capture card (the hauppage seems quite highly recommended here)
> TV Out AGP video card (I have a GeForce 5200 that I can use already, but
> will buy another if need be)
> Wireless eth2wifi adapter
> DirecTV low speed network adapter (from the website mentioned here)
> USB Wireless kb/mouse (optional, but would love to use SSH from the comfort
> of my couch ;p)
> Gentoo linux, probably a minimal windo wmanager (blackbox , IceWM, etc.)

I use WindowMaker, excelent window focus behavior (which is important
for lirc irxevent), and you can autologin and autostart programs.
>
> I currently have a headless linux box (an old AMD K6-2 350) and a newer dual
> boot (Abit NF7s-v2, XP2600), that I could set up DHCP and file server on.

The current version of myth does not even need an nfs file server. I
think everything is streamed through the designated mythtv port. You
can use a nfs server on the main backend if you want your slave backends
to record to it.

Re: Going wireless/diskless, and some assorted hardware questions [ In reply to ]

bpreston at networkusa

Jun 4, 2003, 1:52 PM

Post #4 of 5 (1615 views)

Permalink

> 2. Networking: The mini-itx case/mobo's I've looked at only have one PCI
> slot, which will probably be taken up by the capture card, so I'd be using
> the onboard lan to connect to an 802.11b/g converter. What transfer rate
> would I need if I wanted to go completely disklesss? (I'm trying to figure
> if it's feasable to store everything in one central place, and just boot
> this box, or even multiple boxes from that backend).

There's no G equipment that'll work under linux yet, so you'll have to
either use cabling now, or use a B card. Once the spec is approved I'm sure
the other manufacturers will start putting their (more documented) hardware
out, and support will follow.

(Urm, unless you get one of two of those 'wireless bridges' and have them
communicate with each other, and then just connect a NIC to each of
those--but someone else will have to comment as to whether or not that'll
work.)

Re: Going wireless/diskless, and some assorted hardware questions [ In reply to ]

petecool at vl

Jun 4, 2003, 4:27 PM

Post #5 of 5 (1604 views)

Permalink

Latka wrote:

> 2. Networking: The mini-itx case/mobo's I've looked at only have one PCI
> slot, which will probably be taken up by the capture card, so I'd be using
> the onboard lan to connect to an 802.11b/g converter. What transfer rate
> would I need if I wanted to go completely disklesss? (I'm trying to figure
> if it's feasable to store everything in one central place, and just boot
> this box, or even multiple boxes from that backend).

I did see a case that let you have two pci slots, by using a riser card,
and having the cards horizontal, but I can't find a link right now (I'm
not really familiar with the mini-itx/epia websites), but if you look
around, you should be able to find it.

Pete