Mailing List Archive

Agreed, Have you seen this? http://www.mini-itx.com/store/hush.asp


-----Original Message-----
From: Cheng Zhou [mailto:cheng_zhou@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:05 AM
To: mythtv-users@snowman.net
Subject: [mythtv-users] PVR-250/350 and MiniITX?


Now that WinTV PVR-250/350 support has been added to MythTV, I'm hoping that
I
may finally realize my dream of building a Mini-ITX based PVR. I just can't
stand the noisy CPU fans that accompany most modern processors so I figure
that
this calls for a passive-cooled CPU solution. Anyway, I would greatly
appreciate any feedback and experiences on building a MiniITX based MythTV
box,
particularly one based on the new PVR-250/350 support.

thanks in advance

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On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 09:05:01AM -0700, Cheng Zhou wrote:
> Now that WinTV PVR-250/350 support has been added to MythTV, I'm hoping that I
> may finally realize my dream of building a Mini-ITX based PVR.

www.solarpc.com .. these people seem to have mini-itx PVR boxes with
wintv-pvr 250 cards, they claim that linux pvr software is "under
development"

-- Gerald

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On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 09:05:01AM -0700, Cheng Zhou wrote:
> Now that WinTV PVR-250/350 support has been added to MythTV, I'm hoping that I
> may finally realize my dream of building a Mini-ITX based PVR. I just can't
> stand the noisy CPU fans that accompany most modern processors so I figure that
> this calls for a passive-cooled CPU solution. Anyway, I would greatly
> appreciate any feedback and experiences on building a MiniITX based MythTV box,
> particularly one based on the new PVR-250/350 support.

Everybody is probably sick of me saying this, but many mini-itx systems come
with a 55 Watt power supply. This is _not_ enough to run a 3.5" harddrive,
the PVR-250, and built-in ethernet at the same time. I'll be trying out a
notebook harddrive today (2.5") to see how the power situation is there.

Jeff

- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Science is as much about computers as astronomy is about telescopes
-- Edsger Wybe Dijkstra (1930-2002)
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Hi Jeff,

Can you share your X configuration? I have a EPIA-M10000 board which I
like to run the frontend on it. But the default VESA X server seems not
support Xv. How did you configure your X server?

TIA.

Lijia Jin


mcbeth@broggs.org wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 09:05:01AM -0700, Cheng Zhou wrote:
>
>>Now that WinTV PVR-250/350 support has been added to MythTV, I'm hoping that I
>>may finally realize my dream of building a Mini-ITX based PVR. I just can't
>>stand the noisy CPU fans that accompany most modern processors so I figure that
>>this calls for a passive-cooled CPU solution. Anyway, I would greatly
>>appreciate any feedback and experiences on building a MiniITX based MythTV box,
>>particularly one based on the new PVR-250/350 support.
>
>
> Everybody is probably sick of me saying this, but many mini-itx systems come
> with a 55 Watt power supply. This is _not_ enough to run a 3.5" harddrive,
> the PVR-250, and built-in ethernet at the same time. I'll be trying out a
> notebook harddrive today (2.5") to see how the power situation is there.
>
> Jeff
>
> - --
> - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Computer Science is as much about computers as astronomy is about telescopes
> -- Edsger Wybe Dijkstra (1930-2002)
> - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> =hQSD
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@snowman.net
> http://lists.snowman.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

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On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 01:11:21PM -0700, Lijia Jin wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
>
> Can you share your X configuration? I have a EPIA-M10000 board which I
> like to run the frontend on it. But the default VESA X server seems not
> support Xv. How did you configure your X server?

Alan Cox recently checked in a driver for the video card on the EPIA-M
boards. I just applied his patch to my sources and compiled. Check the via
arena boards for the URL to the patch. I no longer have them.

Jeff

- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Science is as much about computers as astronomy is about telescopes
-- Edsger Wybe Dijkstra (1930-2002)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 09:05:01AM -0700, Cheng Zhou wrote:
> Now that WinTV PVR-250/350 support has been added to MythTV, I'm hoping that I
> may finally realize my dream of building a Mini-ITX based PVR. I just can't
> stand the noisy CPU fans that accompany most modern processors so I
> figure that this calls for a passive-cooled CPU solution. Anyway, I
> would greatly appreciate any feedback and experiences on building a
> MiniITX based MythTV box, particularly one based on the new PVR-250/350
> support.

The cpu requirements of mythtv place it just out of reach of the fanless
epia m class computers. Get the mpeg accelleration going on the
castelrock graphics driver and you may have something.

But you are right. The wintv pvr 250 brings the bar closer.

E

--
Erik Hovland
mail: erik@hovland.org
web: http://hovland.org/
PGP/GPG public key available on request

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On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 11:43:24AM -0700, Erik Hovland wrote:
> On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 09:05:01AM -0700, Cheng Zhou wrote:
> > Now that WinTV PVR-250/350 support has been added to MythTV, I'm hoping that I
> > may finally realize my dream of building a Mini-ITX based PVR. I just can't
> > stand the noisy CPU fans that accompany most modern processors so I
> > figure that this calls for a passive-cooled CPU solution. Anyway, I
> > would greatly appreciate any feedback and experiences on building a
> > MiniITX based MythTV box, particularly one based on the new PVR-250/350
> > support.
>
> The cpu requirements of mythtv place it just out of reach of the fanless
> epia m class computers. Get the mpeg accelleration going on the
> castelrock graphics driver and you may have something.

It is out of reach of the non-m class computers, but my M9000 can handle
decoding of 480x480 MPEG2/4 just fine. When I had a straight WinTV, Live TV
was 320x240 and recording was 480x480 and it worked just fine (no skipped
frames)

Jeff

- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Science is as much about computers as astronomy is about telescopes
-- Edsger Wybe Dijkstra (1930-2002)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 02:13:23PM -0600, Jeffrey Brent McBeth wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 01:11:21PM -0700, Lijia Jin wrote:
> > Hi Jeff,
> >
> > Can you share your X configuration? I have a EPIA-M10000 board which I
> > like to run the frontend on it. But the default VESA X server seems not
> > support Xv. How did you configure your X server?
>
> Alan Cox recently checked in a driver for the video card on the EPIA-M
> boards. I just applied his patch to my sources and compiled. Check the via
> arena boards for the URL to the patch. I no longer have them.

The patch has been minorly improved in Xfree CVS. You can get it there
too.

The link to Xfree cvs
http://www.xfree86.org/cvs/

And the castlerock X driver bugzilla and cvs web pages:
http://bugs.xfree86.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=154
http://cvsweb.xfree86.org/cvsweb/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/drivers/via/

E

--
Erik Hovland
mail: erik@hovland.org
web: http://hovland.org/
PGP/GPG public key available on request

I have 2 mini-itx systems, ME6000 and
M10000(Nehemiah). I got the ME6000 first, while
waiting for the Nehemiah. With the Matrox g200 PCI
card->MJPEG ($90 from compuvest), I got good results
on the ME6000(no fan). Playback maxed the system,
uncompressed audio, but hey it did work, video was
okay a few dropped frames, etc. Recording was easy,
25% of CPU. LiveTV worked at decimation 2, 50%. (I've
now converted this box to an mp3 server now that I
have the M10000)

With the M10000, everything works great. I don't know
how much more processor is required for the PVR250,
but for the g200 MJPeg, LiveTV works great.

I have no issues with power running a Samsung 3.5"
120GB drive + ME6000 + matrox, or the M10000 + a
seagate Barracuda VI and matrox + slimline DVD. ( I
actually recommend the Samsung(5400) over the
Seagate(7200) for noise, plus it's cheaper(est).

Noise is an issue with the M10000 tho, and I am
looking at putting in a Zalman flower heat sink or the
like (cutting out part of the case so there's room and
air) to get rid of the noiser CPU fan (for the
bedroom). Acoustic Absoption pads also help.

My $.02


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> Van: Jamison Wilde <jamison_wilde@yahoo.com>
>
> I have 2 mini-itx systems, ME6000 and
> M10000(Nehemiah). I got the ME6000 first, while
> waiting for the Nehemiah. With the Matrox g200 PCI
> card->MJPEG ($90 from compuvest), I got good results
> on the ME6000(no fan). Playback maxed the system,
> uncompressed audio, but hey it did work, video was
> okay a few dropped frames, etc. Recording was easy,
> 25% of CPU. LiveTV worked at decimation 2, 50%. (I've
> now converted this box to an mp3 server now that I
> have the M10000)

Then you must be one of the few who succeeded.

Okay, with a G200 it's 'easy' :-P

> With the M10000, everything works great. I don't know
> how much more processor is required for the PVR250,
> but for the g200 MJPeg, LiveTV works great.

Also nice to hear :-)

Do you know any sites that compare the EPIA M10000 Ezra-T with the Nehemia
version? I've found one comparing the Nehemia to the M9000, but from what
I've heard the M10000 also already had some changes in the CPU core.

> I have no issues with power running a Samsung 3.5"
> 120GB drive + ME6000 + matrox, or the M10000 + a
> seagate Barracuda VI and matrox + slimline DVD. ( I
> actually recommend the Samsung(5400) over the
> Seagate(7200) for noise, plus it's cheaper(est).

So what Samsung do you recommend? The SV1204H I guess? (hdparm -I|more if
you are unsure). Tom's Hardware Guide says it's 3dB less than the Seagate
(54dB vs. 57dB), that should be slightly noticable indeed.

> Noise is an issue with the M10000 tho, and I am
> looking at putting in a Zalman flower heat sink or the
> like (cutting out part of the case so there's room and
> air) to get rid of the noiser CPU fan (for the
> bedroom). Acoustic Absoption pads also help.

Hmmm...

I think cutting the case won't do you any good, it will open it up for the
noise to come out. Plus the 'natural airflow' inside the case is
interrupted, which might lead to heat buildup elsewhere. You should better
find a case that fits the cooler.

btw, VIA features some coolers that are known to fit the EPIA's. Not every
cooler fits, most Athlon coolers do. Google a bit and you will probably
find some specific.

Henk Poley <><

On Wednesday 07 May 2003 09:09 pm, Jamison Wilde wrote:
> I have 2 mini-itx systems, ME6000 and
> M10000(Nehemiah). I got the ME6000 first, while
> waiting for the Nehemiah. With the Matrox g200 PCI
> card->MJPEG ($90 from compuvest), I got good results
> on the ME6000(no fan). Playback maxed the system,
> uncompressed audio, but hey it did work, video was
> okay a few dropped frames, etc. Recording was easy,
> 25% of CPU. LiveTV worked at decimation 2, 50%. (I've
> now converted this box to an mp3 server now that I
> have the M10000)

How warm does your Nehemiah get during load (say, while compiling mythtv,
after it's done with most of the compile, but before it's finished)?

> With the M10000, everything works great. I don't know
> how much more processor is required for the PVR250,
> but for the g200 MJPeg, LiveTV works great.

Considerably less CPU is required for mpeg2 playback.

Isaac

How is the TV out on the M10000 Nehemia?

Thanks

>
> > Van: Jamison Wilde <jamison_wilde@yahoo.com>
> >
> > I have 2 mini-itx systems, ME6000 and
> > M10000(Nehemiah). I got the ME6000 first, while
> > waiting for the Nehemiah. With the Matrox g200 PCI
> > card->MJPEG ($90 from compuvest), I got good results
> > on the ME6000(no fan). Playback maxed the system,
> > uncompressed audio, but hey it did work, video was
> > okay a few dropped frames, etc. Recording was easy,
> > 25% of CPU. LiveTV worked at decimation 2, 50%. (I've
> > now converted this box to an mp3 server now that I
> > have the M10000)
>
> Then you must be one of the few who succeeded.
>
> Okay, with a G200 it's 'easy' :-P
>
> > With the M10000, everything works great. I don't know
> > how much more processor is required for the PVR250,
> > but for the g200 MJPeg, LiveTV works great.
>
> Also nice to hear :-)
>
> Do you know any sites that compare the EPIA M10000 Ezra-T with the Nehemia
> version? I've found one comparing the Nehemia to the M9000, but from what
> I've heard the M10000 also already had some changes in the CPU core.
>
> > I have no issues with power running a Samsung 3.5"
> > 120GB drive + ME6000 + matrox, or the M10000 + a
> > seagate Barracuda VI and matrox + slimline DVD. ( I
> > actually recommend the Samsung(5400) over the
> > Seagate(7200) for noise, plus it's cheaper(est).
>
> So what Samsung do you recommend? The SV1204H I guess? (hdparm -I|more if
> you are unsure). Tom's Hardware Guide says it's 3dB less than the Seagate
> (54dB vs. 57dB), that should be slightly noticable indeed.
>
> > Noise is an issue with the M10000 tho, and I am
> > looking at putting in a Zalman flower heat sink or the
> > like (cutting out part of the case so there's room and
> > air) to get rid of the noiser CPU fan (for the
> > bedroom). Acoustic Absoption pads also help.
>
> Hmmm...
>
> I think cutting the case won't do you any good, it will open it up for the
> noise to come out. Plus the 'natural airflow' inside the case is
> interrupted, which might lead to heat buildup elsewhere. You should better
> find a case that fits the cooler.
>
> btw, VIA features some coolers that are known to fit the EPIA's. Not every
> cooler fits, most Athlon coolers do. Google a bit and you will probably
> find some specific.
>
> Henk Poley <><
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@snowman.net
> http://lists.snowman.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
>

> Van: usenet@wingert.org
>
> How is the TV out on the M10000 Nehemia?

Good question, but.. can't you quote?

<snipped ~70 non-usefull lines>

Henk Poley <><

> How is the TV out on the M10000 Nehemia?

So far it seems to be the same as the M 9000. I have not used it
extensively though (still setting things up).

Larry

Sorry, Mom.

>
> > Van: usenet@wingert.org
> >
> > How is the TV out on the M10000 Nehemia?
>
> Good question, but.. can't you quote?
>
> <snipped ~70 non-usefull lines>
>
> Henk Poley <><
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@snowman.net
> http://lists.snowman.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>

Could you elaborate for those of us who haven't seen a 9k?

The TV out on my Epia 800 is crappy.

Any black (or any color) bars?

Does it fill the NTSC screen?

Was it a pain to setup under XFree?

Thanks


>
> > How is the TV out on the M10000 Nehemia?
>
> So far it seems to be the same as the M 9000. I have not used it
> extensively though (still setting things up).
>
> Larry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@snowman.net
> http://lists.snowman.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
>

> How warm does your Nehemiah get during load (say, while compiling
> mythtv, after it's done with most of the compile, but before it's
> finished)?

I use my EPIA as a diskless client, so I don't compile on it. However, I
just swapped out an M9000 for a Nehemiah, everyting else staying the same.
With the M9000, the case was noticably warm above the CPU - I had to
remember not to let my stuff pile up on top of the case. With the
Nehemiah, the case is always cool.

Larry

On Sunday 11 May 2003 12:25 pm, Larry Matter wrote:
> > How warm does your Nehemiah get during load (say, while compiling
> > mythtv, after it's done with most of the compile, but before it's
> > finished)?
>
> I use my EPIA as a diskless client, so I don't compile on it. However, I
> just swapped out an M9000 for a Nehemiah, everyting else staying the same.
> With the M9000, the case was noticably warm above the CPU - I had to
> remember not to let my stuff pile up on top of the case. With the
> Nehemiah, the case is always cool.

lm_sensors does work on the board, ya know =) It's just, after long periods
of load, my Nehemiah's saying it's upwards of 80c, which I kind of doubt is
good =) If I stop loading it, though, it drops down to mid-40s fairly
quickly.

Isaac

> The TV out on my Epia 800 is crappy.

How specifically (for those of use that don't have an 800 :-)?

>
> Any black (or any color) bars?

You mean boarders around the picture? If you are using the BIOS to mirror
the CRT out, then yes it's underscanned and has black boarders.

>
> Does it fill the NTSC screen?

Not by default, but you can set it (in X) for overscan. And then you have
to tweak MythTV to compensate, which is pretty easy.

> Was it a pain to setup under XFree?

Nope, just followed the instructions. I told Mandrake Installer I had an S3
generic, changed the driver in XF86Config to "via", pretty straight forward.

I'm happy with the TV out. It looks fine for TV. It sucks for Xterms,
and I still have to get the MythTV fonts more legible. I thought it
looked better than the Geforce 2 I tried.

Larry

>
> > The TV out on my Epia 800 is crappy.
>
> How specifically (for those of use that don't have an 800 :-)?

Basically, the XVideo interface doesn't quite work right. There is
either blue or magenta bars on the edges of the screen. This looks
like a dimension mapping problem between the X server and the application
using XVideo. This is just conjecture, because I haven't looked at the
code.


> > Does it fill the NTSC screen?
>
> Not by default, but you can set it (in X) for overscan. And then you have
> to tweak MythTV to compensate, which is pretty easy.

Could you provide more information regarding this?

I have had success with an Athlon and a Radeon VE with good picture,
however, this is a power monster.

I want a low power PC by all my TVs and I want it to be the exact
same hardware, so I don't have to rebuild the world everytime I
get a new machine.

Thanks

Sorry 'bout the delay in responding...

I am using the g200 TV OUT currently, but I may try
to switch to the onboard tv out now that the drivers
are out. I'll let everyone know how it goes. As far
as my ME6000 running XP, TV out looks fine running at
720x480(on an HDTV with progressive scan ;-)

As far as heat/power/etc.: I am getting a Shuttle PH4
Heat Pipe (arrives tomorrow) to use instead of the
zalman flower. I won't be using the fan, and what's
kinda cool is that with the Morex 2699 case, the fins
attached to the heat pipe will be external to the
case(after nipping out a bit of the case for the heat
pipes). Again, I'll let everyone know how it goes.
Having to use silver thermal *adhesive* though, so no
warranty. Additional physical load support for the
heatsink using the chipset holes to rig a brace.

Since the only real noise is from the CPU fan, I'm not
worried about opening the case up, even if I had done
the zalman. The two mini fans in the back of the
morex case are pretty much optional, especially with a
5400 drive.

The Nehemiah is supposedly even better with heat than
the Ezra-T. (SilentPcReview's info.) Supposedly 3
watts less at load for the 1Ghz version: 18->15watts.
I'll run lm_sensors next chance I get, since I'm in
the middle of some upgrades... For some reason I
thought I had read that it didn't have built in
support (or more accurately that the sensors weren't
there), but I guess I was wrong. Coulda been about a
different Epia version.



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>> > The TV out on my Epia 800 is crappy.
>>
>> How specifically (for those of use that don't have an 800 :-)?
>
> Basically, the XVideo interface doesn't quite work right. There is
> either blue or magenta bars on the edges of the screen. This looks
> like a dimension mapping problem between the X server and the
> application using XVideo. This is just conjecture, because I haven't
> looked at the code.

No, I don't see any of that. Just good ol' TV.

>> > Does it fill the NTSC screen?
>>
>> Not by default, but you can set it (in X) for overscan. And then you
>> have to tweak MythTV to compensate, which is pretty easy.
>
> Could you provide more information regarding this?

In the XF86Config you can specify an option for overscan (when using the
via driver). Unfortunately I don't know how to control the amount of
overscan. I would be happy to send you my XF86Config if you want.

Then in mythfrontend->setup->appearance you can adjust the size of the
screens (say 635x475 instead of 640x480). What I don't know how to do is
to adjust the offset of the screens; they open at the upper-left corner
and thus are somewhat clipped by the overscan. One thing I did that
helped a little was to *not* make them boarderless, but I'm not happy with
that as a long term solution.

> I want a low power PC by all my TVs and I want it to be the exact same
> hardware, so I don't have to rebuild the world everytime I get a new
> machine.

Me too. I would like to have one of these systems as a diskless frontend
machine at each TV and use a big-honkin' server in the garage for all my
multimedia content. I will probably have to play DVD's locally though.

Larry