Mailing List Archive: Looking for some additional information

Looking for some additional information

Mar 26, 2003, 3:57 PM

Post #1 of 10 (3672 views)

I am planning on dumping my Tivo in a few months and going with Myth. It
appears to do everything I have in my Tivo and even more. I have been
reading the web pages to try to learn as much as I can before I dive in but
I am suffering from a lack of general Myth terminology. So:

1. What is the difference between Myth backend and frontend? I have even
read something about a remote frontend?

2. I have digital cable and I know that I can setup the system to control a
cable box. However is that a global setting or specific to any given Tuner
card? Also, anyone know of a turner cared compatible with digital cable? I
know that I can get some of the lower channels via analog. I am planning on
have 2 cards one with a cable box connected and the other without.

3. One of the things I like about my Tivo is that I can let a show start to
record and then start watching it about 15 to 20 min into the show. Can
that be done with Myth or do you have to wait until the program is done
recording?

4. I have read a few posts where it appeared that some people were going to
try and put together a Myth distribution. Anything on this? The main thing
that worries me about this is it seems to be difficult to get installed and
working. I have used Linux some, but never complied anything on it, this
is the part that worries me the most. I have never been successful when it
comes to compiling on Linux. I would hate to buy the hardware and not be
able to get it to work. I would test on my current computer but it would
not work at all on it.

5. Any advantage to using the newer Intel processors with hyper threading?

I guess that is it. I have read enough that I think I have a good idea of
what hardware I want. I am really hoping one of the guru's will take pity
on us poor, lowly, almost geeks put together a CD. I would be willing to
pay for one. Lastly I would like to say thanks to all the people who work
on this, this is really great. So, much functionality already. Makes me
wonder that the people at Tivo have been doing.

D. David Ferguson

P A T H F I R E

Suite 100, 245 Hembree Park Drive

Roswell, Georgia 30076

770.619.0801 ext 1339

770.619.0802 Fax

DFerguson@pathfire.com <mailto:DFerguson@pathfire.com>

Pathfire automates digital media management, distribution and
exchange. Pathfire allows content providers, syndicators, networks,
broadcast stations and cable systems to quickly and easily manage,
distribute and track their content. To read more about Pathfire, visit
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Re: Looking for some additional information [ In reply to ]

cedarmckay at mac

Mar 26, 2003, 4:19 PM

Post #2 of 10 (3645 views)

Permalink

>
> I am planning on dumping my Tivo in a few months and going with Myth.
> It appears to do everything I have in my Tivo and even more. I have
> been reading the web pages to try to learn as much as I can before I
> dive in but I am suffering from a lack of general Myth terminology. So:
>
jump in the water is fine

> 1. What is the difference between Myth backend and frontend? I have
> even read something about a remote frontend?

to run mythtv you need both parts. The backend is responsible for
recording/scheduling etc. The front end shows you the graphical
interface and plays the actual video. The idea is you could have a
'backend' on one system (say a powerful but loud dual tuner machine in
the basement) and a 'frontend' on another machine (say a quiet,
attractive less powerful machine in the tv room). Mythtv supports
multiple frontends and backends all working in concert. However, the
simplest setup is simply to have the backend and frontend running on the
same machine.

>
> 2. I have digital cable and I know that I can setup the system to
> control a cable box. However is that a global setting or specific to
> any given Tuner card?

not sure.

> Also, anyone know of a turner cared compatible with digital cable?

nope

> 3. One of the things I like about my Tivo is that I can let a show
> start to record and then start watching it about 15 to 20 min into the
> show. Can that be done with Myth or do you have to wait until the
> program is done recording?

you can watch immediately

>
> 4. I have read a few posts where it appeared that some people were
> going to try and put together a Myth distribution. Anything on this?

just talk so far.

> The main thing that worries me about this is it seems to be difficult
> to get installed and working. I have used Linux some, but never
> complied anything on it, this is the part that worries me the most. I
> have never been successful when it comes to compiling on Linux.

Just use one of the two systems with a lot of documentation (mandrake
and red hat) and then read _every word_ of the documentation before you
even start. Don't worry about understanding every little thing, just get
the flavor. Then start with the documentation again, this time actually
installing, following the documentation step by every step. It should
get you home safe and sound and includes everything you need to do to
compile your own stuff.

> I would hate to buy the hardware and not be able to get it to work.
> I would test on my current computer but it would not work at all on it.
>
The biggest problems people have with installing mythtv seem to be
hardware related. However, there are several tuner cards, sound cards
etc that seem to work for people "out of the box". Take some care going
through the archives to try to get a system together that requires as
little extra work/headache/drivers as possible.

> 5. Any advantage to using the newer Intel processors with hyper
> threading?
>
no idea. Lots of people seem to be using amd xp processers since they
have a very good price/performance ratio.

finally, in the future, please post using plain text rather than html.

good luck,

Cedar

Re: Looking for some additional information [ In reply to ]

ray at comarre

Mar 26, 2003, 4:53 PM

Post #3 of 10 (3659 views)

Permalink

Just filling in a detail.

At 03:19 PM 3/26/2003 -0800, Cedar McKay wrote:
[...]
>>2. I have digital cable and I know that I can setup the system to
>>control a cable box. However is that a global setting or specific to
>>any given Tuner card?

There are two parts to this, only one of which involves the TV-tuner card.

1. You need to connect the digital-cable box to the computer. For this, you
need a TV-tuner card that has an input that matches an available output of
the digital-cable box. That might be coax set to a fixed channel,
Composite, S-Video, or perhaps something else in Europe. And some of these
involve separat audio connections.

2. You need to set up the computer to output control instructions to the
digital-cable box. The usual way to do this is with lirc (Linux Infra-Red
Controller, I think it stands for) driving an IR-Blaster attached to a
serial port. (I think TiVos and Replays control external devices like this,
but I haven't used one so don't knwo for sure.) MythTV can handle this,
but ti is quite independent of the TV-tuner card in the computer.

Re: Looking for some additional information [ In reply to ]

dert at pobox

Mar 26, 2003, 7:44 PM

Post #4 of 10 (3662 views)

Permalink

I'm a Myth enthusiast, but frankly, I don't feel Myth is a replacement
for my TiVo. It makes sense (to me) to go with Myth if you already have
the (extra) hardware laying around and you want to hack (or benefit from)
software PVR, or if you're into the whole "convergence" thang and aim to
replace your entire HT system. There /are/ reasons to prefer Myth.

Still, I record anything I care about on the TiVo. It offers superior
function, performance, robustness, and interface. A ~¼tb unit doesn't cost
more than $300-350 if you upgrade it yourself. I've spent perhaps 2hrs
hacking at my TiVo(s) in the last 3 years -- chances are it will take you
ten times that just to get a Myth box running anything like your TiVo.

Just a suggestion that you seriously evaluate what it is you hope to gain
and what it will cost you. (I hope) Your TiVo/Myth Experience May Vary...

#if David Ferguson /* Mar 26, 17:57 */
> I am planning on dumping my Tivo in a few months and going with Myth.
#endif /* DFerguson@pathfire.com */

Re: Looking for some additional information [ In reply to ]

dhubbard at dwightandamy

Mar 27, 2003, 8:09 AM

Post #5 of 10 (3648 views)

Permalink

I have to agree, mythtv is a promising projects and it does offer some of
the convergence functionality I've wished the tivo offered. I also think
that as myth stabilizes it will be the better solution. However comparing
the two today, the tivo is a much better choice for a PVR.

The main reasons are because the tivo software is stable and tested, I've
never had problems with the tivo crashing, stuttering or loosing audio
sync in the last two years. I've lost power in my house more often than
I've had to power cycle my tivo (actually I've had to power cycle the
directtv box the tivo controlled more often than the tivo itself). I can
see mythtv getting to the same point but I doubt it will happen in the
next 6 months.

The other thing is the tivo is much easier to use, 95% of all the
operations on the tivo are done using 6 keys on the remote and everything
works consistently. Heck, my wife can even use the tivo and she asks for
help using the vcr (this has the rather negative side affect that most of
the tivo's suggestions are recordings off the lifetime channel).

Re: Looking for some additional information [ In reply to ]

dert at pobox

Mar 27, 2003, 10:14 AM

Post #6 of 10 (3636 views)

Permalink

I'm so glad you made this comment; I've pointed this out several times, but
Myth's interface just seems to be getting more and more convoluted, even
as people complain about insufficient space on their 40 button remotes and
a lack of documentation for how to use basic features of the UI. I never
needed to RTFM at any point during TiVo installation or use.

That's probably enough Myth-bashing for now, eh? :-)

#if Dwight Hubbard /* Mar 27, 09:09 */
> The other thing is the tivo is much easier to use, 95% of all the
> operations on the tivo are done using 6 keys on the remote and everything
> works consistently.
#endif /* dhubbard@dwightandamy.com */

Re: Looking for some additional information [ In reply to ]

cedarmckay at mac

Mar 27, 2003, 10:38 AM

Post #7 of 10 (3633 views)

Permalink

Dwight Hubbard wrote:

>I have to agree, mythtv is a promising projects and it does offer some of
>the convergence functionality I've wished the tivo offered. I also think
>that as myth stabilizes it will be the better solution. However comparing
>the two today, the tivo is a much better choice for a PVR.
>
>

I have to disagree. No question mythtv is much harder to setup. But I
personally have found stability to be very good, even though I use cvs.
My pattern is to update to a new cvs build, use it for 3-4 weeks, and
update again. Over the last couple of months I don't thing I have had
more than two crashes or segfault. I'm sure it would be even less if I
followed point releases. So tivo wins on ease of setup for sure, but
mythtv wins on many, many other things. For instance

1) cost. No monthly fees! Free as in beer and speech!
2)flexibility: can your tivo have multiple tuners and play programs
recorded in one room on the tivo in another room?
3)quality: My mythtv picture kicks the crap out of my friend's tivo
3)expandability: decide you want another tuner, or to double your
recording capacity? Add a tuner and drive. With a tivo the first is
impossible, the second a warranty voiding hack.
4)customization: you choose the hardware. You spend a lot or a little
depending on what you want. You choose how it looks, both hardware and
software(themes).
5)mythweb, mythweather, music, game, etc etc
6) I like the gui better. My friend with the tivo wanted to show me a
program he liked. But oops it had "faded". He hadn't told it to save the
program or whatever. Mythtv doesn't try to be so clever it screws you up
recording crap you don't like, and deleting stuff you do.
7) Privacy. Mythtv doesn't phone home and spill your dirty little Buffy
secret to the mothership.
8) Future potential: every two weeks mythtv is significantly better than
before. It is getting better much fast than tivo.
9) Don't like the way something works, or want to see a new feature? You
don't have to beg tivo for it, do it yourself, its open source!

and mythtv passed the girlfriend test with flying colors. Just spend a
little time putting together a remote control layout that makes sense
and she will have no problems.

in summary, mythtv is much harder to setup. But you're using linux
right? You should be able to hack it. But once setup boy, its a good dream.

Re: Looking for some additional information [ In reply to ]

edward.wildgoose at frmhedge

Mar 27, 2003, 11:03 AM

Post #8 of 10 (3659 views)

Permalink

> 8) Future potential: every two weeks mythtv is significantly better than
> before. It is getting better much fast than tivo.

I have only been following myth for a couple of weeks, and in that time it
has evolved immensly! Just yesterday I grabbed CVS and there is a brand new
playback/delete screen! It looks as though we will have some more
substantial improvements very soon as well - it does appear that there is a
pretty good framework in place to allow new developments really quickly.

As for stability, I think it probably depends a little bit on choice of
hardware. However, I think you are being too harsh - there has been a major
revision in the code which is adding massive flexibility to the core engine,
and the release of that code just came out. All things considered I think
it is very stable - certainly Isaac only has his own hardware in front of
him, but people are finding the minor gremlins now and everything looks like
it is getting fixed really rapidly.

The code is fairly easy to modify in order to change keybindings. Sure it
would be nice to have this configurable, but someone has to write the code
first, so find some time to do this and send it to Isaac I guess...?
Certainly the proposed "popup menu" functionality (if someone is serious
about implementing it) appears to fix all these complaints anyway, so give
it some time and check back later

Please don't take this the wrong way, however, there have been two emails
recently which could be construed as complaints. Please all remember that
this is the result of the hard work of a few people who have chosen to share
their project with us. I am personally extremely grateful, and I think we
owe it to Isaac and all the others who have worked so hard to produce this.
All: Please try and phrase your bug reports in a positive way so that the
developers remain incentivised to work on this great project.

Re: Looking for some additional information [ In reply to ]

alexd at synergycsi

Mar 27, 2003, 11:12 AM

Post #9 of 10 (3661 views)

Permalink

On a related note, does anyone have any opinions on the Windows XP Media
Center systems coming out now like
http://www.alienware.com/mce_main_sff.aspx# ?

This one is obviously based on a Shuttle case and I see they have a free
guide which is a selling point over Tivo and Replay but obviously the
initial cost is going to be much higher than Myth but conversely they should
be Plug N Play (or is that Pray?).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cedar McKay" <cedarmckay@mac.com>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" <mythtv-users@snowman.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Looking for some additional information

> Dwight Hubbard wrote:
>
> >I have to agree, mythtv is a promising projects and it does offer some of
> >the convergence functionality I've wished the tivo offered. I also think
> >that as myth stabilizes it will be the better solution. However
comparing
> >the two today, the tivo is a much better choice for a PVR.
> >
> >
>
> I have to disagree. No question mythtv is much harder to setup. But I
> personally have found stability to be very good, even though I use cvs.
> My pattern is to update to a new cvs build, use it for 3-4 weeks, and
> update again. Over the last couple of months I don't thing I have had
> more than two crashes or segfault. I'm sure it would be even less if I
> followed point releases. So tivo wins on ease of setup for sure, but
> mythtv wins on many, many other things. For instance
>
> 1) cost. No monthly fees! Free as in beer and speech!
> 2)flexibility: can your tivo have multiple tuners and play programs
> recorded in one room on the tivo in another room?
> 3)quality: My mythtv picture kicks the crap out of my friend's tivo
> 3)expandability: decide you want another tuner, or to double your
> recording capacity? Add a tuner and drive. With a tivo the first is
> impossible, the second a warranty voiding hack.
> 4)customization: you choose the hardware. You spend a lot or a little
> depending on what you want. You choose how it looks, both hardware and
> software(themes).
> 5)mythweb, mythweather, music, game, etc etc
> 6) I like the gui better. My friend with the tivo wanted to show me a
> program he liked. But oops it had "faded". He hadn't told it to save the
> program or whatever. Mythtv doesn't try to be so clever it screws you up
> recording crap you don't like, and deleting stuff you do.
> 7) Privacy. Mythtv doesn't phone home and spill your dirty little Buffy
> secret to the mothership.
> 8) Future potential: every two weeks mythtv is significantly better than
> before. It is getting better much fast than tivo.
> 9) Don't like the way something works, or want to see a new feature? You
> don't have to beg tivo for it, do it yourself, its open source!
>
>
> and mythtv passed the girlfriend test with flying colors. Just spend a
> little time putting together a remote control layout that makes sense
> and she will have no problems.
>
>
> in summary, mythtv is much harder to setup. But you're using linux
> right? You should be able to hack it. But once setup boy, its a good
dream.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@snowman.net
> http://lists.snowman.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

Re: Looking for some additional information [ In reply to ]

mythtv at zencow

Mar 27, 2003, 4:45 PM

Post #10 of 10 (3651 views)

Permalink

Alex Davidson wrote
> On a related note, does anyone have any opinions on the Windows XP Media
> Center systems coming out now like
> http://www.alienware.com/mce_main_sff.aspx# ?

It seems a bit expensive for a computer with the features
they list. I think I can build one of those for under $1000
(subjective, not objective, though). I've looked at the
shuttle cases and almost got one in the past, but thier
$300+ pricetag just for a shoebox case and motherboard
with just 1 AGP and 1 PCI slot seemed a bit expensive for
the value you get. I think I can get a barebones system
with CPU and memory for very little over that and I would
find room close to my TV to hide the larger case.

-Chris