Mailing List Archive

skeeterskip's problems are a perfect example of why I think mythtv rpms
are a bad idea. You suck newbies away who think they are getting the
"easier" solution, and then the poor guys are left high, dry and
unsupported. The mythtv docs as is can't help them because they are not
designed with your rpm in mind. And you certainly have not submitted
documentation that would help them. When they come to the list there is
confusion because it is assumed that they used the normal method to
install.



cedar

Cedar,

I prefer rpms because they are easier to remove and
install new versions in my opinion. Mandrake and
Redhat rpms have usually been compatible with one
another. If a Mandrake rpm existed for mythtv I would
use that, but it doesn't.

I've tried installing the tar file first, but couldn't
get it working then I tried rpms.


--- Cedar McKay <cedarmckay@mac.com> wrote:
> skeeterskip's problems are a perfect example of why
> I think mythtv rpms
> are a bad idea. You suck newbies away who think they
> are getting the
> "easier" solution, and then the poor guys are left
> high, dry and
> unsupported. The mythtv docs as is can't help them
> because they are not
> designed with your rpm in mind. And you certainly
> have not submitted
> documentation that would help them. When they come
> to the list there is
> confusion because it is assumed that they used the
> normal method to
> install.
>
>
>
> cedar
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@snowman.net
> http://www.snowman.net/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


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RPMs are just a package not unlike the debs that mdz provides. I am
sure there is some documentation on the way and if now I will attempt to
write some when I rebuild my box in the future. The great thing about
them is that like the debs, if you use apt for them, it handles all of
the dependencies for you. There is no reason to stop making them as it
will only make a larger amount of the public able to use mythtv, which
in my opinion is a good thing.

> skeeterskip's problems are a perfect example of why I think
> mythtv rpms
> are a bad idea. You suck newbies away who think they are getting the
> "easier" solution, and then the poor guys are left high, dry and
> unsupported. The mythtv docs as is can't help them because
> they are not
> designed with your rpm in mind. And you certainly have not submitted
> documentation that would help them. When they come to the
> list there is
> confusion because it is assumed that they used the normal method to
> install.
>
> cedar

> RPMs are just a package not unlike the debs that mdz provides. I am
> sure there is some documentation on the way and if now I will attempt
> to
> write some when I rebuild my box in the future. The great thing about
> them is that like the debs, if you use apt for them, it handles all of
> the dependencies for you.

As I said before, I have no objection to using rpms. My objection is
supplying rpms, without any documentation, then letting the mythtv
lists provide tech support. If Axel Thimm or someone else would provide
some documentation that we could put in the mythtv docs I would be very
happy to recommend them. Though Axel has shown no inclination to write
docs, I would apreciate if you or any other fan of the rpms would.


> There is no reason to stop making them as it
> will only make a larger amount of the public able to use mythtv, which
> in my opinion is a good thing.
>

I agree. What we need is documentation in _addition_ to the rpms. If
you do start work on documentation I would contact Robert Kulagowski to
make sure he is willing to include Red Hat/ RPM documentation in the
main docs. I would really like to see rpms become of viable way of
installing! It is just that in my opinion it is worse than nothing
without installation instructions.



best,

Cedar

>
>
> I prefer rpms because they are easier to remove and
> install new versions in my opinion. Mandrake and
> Redhat rpms have usually been compatible with one
> another. If a Mandrake rpm existed for mythtv I would
> use that, but it doesn't.
>
I understand, and I don't blame you. When I try to install software, I
often look for rpms too, particularly if they are supplied or
recommended by the project. However the rpms in this case are neither.
I think that could easily change if the maintainer simply provided some
installation instructions.


> I've tried installing the tar file first, but couldn't
> get it working then I tried rpms.

thats too bad, maybe we can figure it out.



best,

Cedar

On Friday 21 March 2003 03:30 pm, Cedar McKay wrote:
> > RPMs are just a package not unlike the debs that mdz provides. I am
> > sure there is some documentation on the way and if now I will attempt
> > to
> > write some when I rebuild my box in the future. The great thing about
> > them is that like the debs, if you use apt for them, it handles all of
> > the dependencies for you.
>
> As I said before, I have no objection to using rpms. My objection is
> supplying rpms, without any documentation, then letting the mythtv
> lists provide tech support. If Axel Thimm or someone else would provide
> some documentation that we could put in the mythtv docs I would be very
> happy to recommend them. Though Axel has shown no inclination to write
> docs, I would apreciate if you or any other fan of the rpms would.
>
> > There is no reason to stop making them as it
> > will only make a larger amount of the public able to use mythtv, which
> > in my opinion is a good thing.
>
> I agree. What we need is documentation in _addition_ to the rpms. If
> you do start work on documentation I would contact Robert Kulagowski to
> make sure he is willing to include Red Hat/ RPM documentation in the
> main docs. I would really like to see rpms become of viable way of
> installing! It is just that in my opinion it is worse than nothing
> without installation instructions.
>
>

I'd like to help with the RPM documentation with the understanding that I can
reference and excerpt the work in my book (with the usual attribution, of
course). To that end, I'm willing to write a HOWTO for Red Hat using the
RPMS.

--
Hoyt Duff
http://www.maximumhoyt.com/
co-author, Red Hat Linux 8 Unleashed

Run with scissors. Remove mattress tags. Top post. Be a rebel.

Cedar, your emotions against rpms are amazing. ;)

On Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 11:01:08AM -0800, Cedar McKay wrote:
> skeeterskip's problems are a perfect example of why I think mythtv rpms
> are a bad idea. You suck newbies away who think they are getting the
> "easier" solution, and then the poor guys are left high, dry and
> unsupported. The mythtv docs as is can't help them because they are not
> designed with your rpm in mind.

No, that's the other way around, the rpms are designed according to the docs,
which are shipped with the rpms.

On Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 01:50:40PM -0600, Brent wrote:
> RPMs are just a package not unlike the debs that mdz provides. I am sure
> there is some documentation on the way and if now I will attempt to write
> some when I rebuild my box in the future. The great thing about them is
> that like the debs, if you use apt for them, it handles all of the
> dependencies for you.

Yes, the biggest problem with mythtv were the dependent packages, especially
as they are almost all perl based. This gave me some headache until I had the
equivalent of relocated make installs fixed. Nevertheless, installing xmltv or
mythtv by apt-get or yum is worth the trouble.

In fact in the latest rpms I synced a lot with the Debian packages.

On Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 12:30:34PM -0800, Cedar McKay wrote:
> My objection is supplying rpms, without any documentation,

Maybe you should check the rpms. There is all of mythtv's documentation even
with `corrected' paths (corrected = Red Hat alike).

At the bottom line I have the feeling, that there are more people benefiting
from my rpms than otherwise (actually you are the only voice against them, but
you are quite loud ...). And anything that is not good enough can only be
improved (patches welcomed ;)
--
Axel.Thimm@physik.fu-berlin.de

I've played around with another program called freevo
and the developer has bundled all the dependencies
together in one big tar file. It simplifies things
quite a bit

--- Axel Thimm <Axel.Thimm@physik.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> Cedar, your emotions against rpms are amazing. ;)
>
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 11:01:08AM -0800, Cedar
> McKay wrote:
> > skeeterskip's problems are a perfect example of
> why I think mythtv rpms
> > are a bad idea. You suck newbies away who think
> they are getting the
> > "easier" solution, and then the poor guys are left
> high, dry and
> > unsupported. The mythtv docs as is can't help them
> because they are not
> > designed with your rpm in mind.
>
> No, that's the other way around, the rpms are
> designed according to the docs,
> which are shipped with the rpms.
>
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 01:50:40PM -0600, Brent
> wrote:
> > RPMs are just a package not unlike the debs that
> mdz provides. I am sure
> > there is some documentation on the way and if now
> I will attempt to write
> > some when I rebuild my box in the future. The
> great thing about them is
> > that like the debs, if you use apt for them, it
> handles all of the
> > dependencies for you.
>
> Yes, the biggest problem with mythtv were the
> dependent packages, especially
> as they are almost all perl based. This gave me some
> headache until I had the
> equivalent of relocated make installs fixed.
> Nevertheless, installing xmltv or
> mythtv by apt-get or yum is worth the trouble.
>
> In fact in the latest rpms I synced a lot with the
> Debian packages.
>
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 12:30:34PM -0800, Cedar
> McKay wrote:
> > My objection is supplying rpms, without any
> documentation,
>
> Maybe you should check the rpms. There is all of
> mythtv's documentation even
> with `corrected' paths (corrected = Red Hat alike).
>
> At the bottom line I have the feeling, that there
> are more people benefiting
> from my rpms than otherwise (actually you are the
> only voice against them, but
> you are quite loud ...). And anything that is not
> good enough can only be
> improved (patches welcomed ;)
> --
> Axel.Thimm@physik.fu-berlin.de
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@snowman.net
> http://www.snowman.net/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


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