Mailing List Archive

On Mon, 2006-07-31 at 11:47 -0700, stan wrote:
> http://www.silicondust.com/main/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5

It also claims to be "Compatible with: ... MythTV - DVR for Linux and
Mac". What does "compatible with" mean in this context? This might be a
great solution to all my problems with firewire and the HD3000, *if* it
can be set up as a tuner in Myth. Wouldn't that require another capture
card type? That's why I'm curious what they mean by "compatible with"
MythTV.

--Greg


_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

On Monday 31 July 2006 20:55, Greg Woods wrote:
> On Mon, 2006-07-31 at 11:47 -0700, stan wrote:
> > http://www.silicondust.com/main/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5
>
> It also claims to be "Compatible with: ... MythTV - DVR for Linux and
> Mac". What does "compatible with" mean in this context?

Look at http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/1701. It's a fully supported
digital capture card.

Janne
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

>> http://www.silicondust.com/main/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5
>>
>
> It also claims to be "Compatible with: ... MythTV - DVR for Linux and
> Mac". What does "compatible with" mean in this context? This might be a
> great solution to all my problems with firewire and the HD3000, *if* it
> can be set up as a tuner in Myth. Wouldn't that require another capture
> card type? That's why I'm curious what they mean by "compatible with"
> MythTV.
>
Hi Greg,

MythTV (svn trunk, soon to be 0.20) has a new capture device for direct
HDHomeRun support. There are no kernel drivers or dependencies to have
to get right.

Configuring - run mythtv-setup and add two new capture devices of type
HDHomeRun. Configure the first device to use tuner 0 and the second
device to use tuner 1.

You can run multiple HDHomeRun boxes - each box has two tuners so you
would add two MythTV devices for each HDHomeRun box.

Nick

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

On 7/31/06, Jafa <hdtv@silicondust.com> wrote:
>
> >> http://www.silicondust.com/main/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5
> >>
> >
> > It also claims to be "Compatible with: ... MythTV - DVR for Linux and
> > Mac". What does "compatible with" mean in this context? This might be a
> > great solution to all my problems with firewire and the HD3000, *if* it
> > can be set up as a tuner in Myth. Wouldn't that require another capture
> > card type? That's why I'm curious what they mean by "compatible with"
> > MythTV.
> >
> Hi Greg,
>
> MythTV (svn trunk, soon to be 0.20) has a new capture device for direct
> HDHomeRun support. There are no kernel drivers or dependencies to have
> to get right.
>
> Configuring - run mythtv-setup and add two new capture devices of type
> HDHomeRun. Configure the first device to use tuner 0 and the second
> device to use tuner 1.
>
> You can run multiple HDHomeRun boxes - each box has two tuners so you
> would add two MythTV devices for each HDHomeRun box.
>
> Nick

I saw a comment along the way which indicated that data from the
HDHomeRun box could be lost if the computer was heavily loaded. I got
the impression that no handshaking is performed, and the HDHomeRun box
has very little onboard buffer. Is this true? How much of a load can
the computer be under and not have this problem?

With a dedicated backend computer, I doubt there would be any problem.
However, if the computer is performing frontend duties, I could
easily see a load issue.

Thanks,

John
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

>>>> http://www.silicondust.com/main/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5
>>>>
> I saw a comment along the way which indicated that data from the
> HDHomeRun box could be lost if the computer was heavily loaded. I got
> the impression that no handshaking is performed, and the HDHomeRun box
> has very little onboard buffer. Is this true? How much of a load can
> the computer be under and not have this problem?
>
> With a dedicated backend computer, I doubt there would be any problem.
> However, if the computer is performing frontend duties, I could
> easily see a load issue.
>
Hi John,

Actually HDHomeRun has more socket buffering than a linux machine with a
normal kernel build :-)

Early in development there was an issue in the backend device code which
meant it used a lot of CPU and could glitch.

This has been fixed and my 2GHz Sempron uses about 3% CPU for the
backend while recording from HDHomeRun.

Nick

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

On Monday 31 July 2006 16:29, Jafa wrote:
>
> >>>> http://www.silicondust.com/main/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5
> >>>>
> Hi John,
>
> Actually HDHomeRun has more socket buffering than a linux machine with a
> normal kernel build :-)
>
> Early in development there was an issue in the backend device code which
> meant it used a lot of CPU and could glitch.
>
> This has been fixed and my 2GHz Sempron uses about 3% CPU for the
> backend while recording from HDHomeRun.
>


Very nice. Just out of curiosity are their plans for a "CableCard"
version of this to get digital data off cable networks (I live in an
area without much OTA HD).
Thanks!
Paul

On 7/31/06, Jafa <hdtv@silicondust.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> http://www.silicondust.com/main/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5
> >>>>
> > I saw a comment along the way which indicated that data from the
> > HDHomeRun box could be lost if the computer was heavily loaded. I got
> > the impression that no handshaking is performed, and the HDHomeRun box
> > has very little onboard buffer. Is this true? How much of a load can
> > the computer be under and not have this problem?
> >
> > With a dedicated backend computer, I doubt there would be any problem.
> > However, if the computer is performing frontend duties, I could
> > easily see a load issue.
> >
> Hi John,
>
> Actually HDHomeRun has more socket buffering than a linux machine with a
> normal kernel build :-)
>
> Early in development there was an issue in the backend device code which
> meant it used a lot of CPU and could glitch.
>
> This has been fixed and my 2GHz Sempron uses about 3% CPU for the
> backend while recording from HDHomeRun.
>
> Nick

Sounds good. I assume that 3% is per recording, so if using both
tuners it would 6%?

I don't really *need* another HD tuner, but am tempted to give one of
these boxes a try.

John
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

On 7/31/06, Jafa <hdtv@silicondust.com> wrote:
>
> >> http://www.silicondust.com/main/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5
> >>
> >
> > It also claims to be "Compatible with: ... MythTV - DVR for Linux and
> > Mac". What does "compatible with" mean in this context? This might be a
> > great solution to all my problems with firewire and the HD3000, *if* it
> > can be set up as a tuner in Myth. Wouldn't that require another capture
> > card type? That's why I'm curious what they mean by "compatible with"
> > MythTV.
> >
> Hi Greg,
>
> MythTV (svn trunk, soon to be 0.20) has a new capture device for direct
> HDHomeRun support. There are no kernel drivers or dependencies to have
> to get right.
>
> Configuring - run mythtv-setup and add two new capture devices of type
> HDHomeRun. Configure the first device to use tuner 0 and the second
> device to use tuner 1.
>
> You can run multiple HDHomeRun boxes - each box has two tuners so you
> would add two MythTV devices for each HDHomeRun box.
>
> Nick

I just noticed that QAM has been removed from the specs. I was
thinking about building a Myth box for my sister using one of these,
but she would require QAM.

John
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

On 7/31/06, Paul V. Gratz <pgratz@gratz1.com> wrote:
> On Monday 31 July 2006 16:29, Jafa wrote:
> >
> > >>>> http://www.silicondust.com/main/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5
> > >>>>
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Actually HDHomeRun has more socket buffering than a linux machine with a
> > normal kernel build :-)
> >
> > Early in development there was an issue in the backend device code which
> > meant it used a lot of CPU and could glitch.
> >
> > This has been fixed and my 2GHz Sempron uses about 3% CPU for the
> > backend while recording from HDHomeRun.
> >
>
>
> Very nice. Just out of curiosity are their plans for a "CableCard"
> version of this to get digital data off cable networks (I live in an
> area without much OTA HD).
> Thanks!
> Paul

That would be SWEET!!!!

John
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

> I just noticed that QAM has been removed from the specs. I was
> thinking about building a Myth box for my sister using one of these,
> but she would require QAM.
>
The tuners and demodulators support QAM64/256 - I am looking into adding
support via a firmware upgrade. Out of the box it supports 8VSB/ATSC.

Nick

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

On 7/31/06, Jafa <hdtv@silicondust.com> wrote:
>
> > I just noticed that QAM has been removed from the specs. I was
> > thinking about building a Myth box for my sister using one of these,
> > but she would require QAM.
> >
> The tuners and demodulators support QAM64/256 - I am looking into adding
> support via a firmware upgrade. Out of the box it supports 8VSB/ATSC.
>
> Nick

Okay, thanks. If I build her a system, I will not be doing so until
October, so you have until then ;-)

John
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-users-bounces@mythtv.org
> [mailto:mythtv-users-bounces@mythtv.org] On Behalf Of John P Poet
> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 1:37 PM
> To: Discussion about mythtv
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] HDHomeRun
>
> On 7/31/06, Jafa <hdtv@silicondust.com> wrote:
> >
> > >>
> http://www.silicondust.com/main/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5
> > >>
> > >
> > > It also claims to be "Compatible with: ... MythTV - DVR
> for Linux and
> > > Mac". What does "compatible with" mean in this context?
> This might be a
> > > great solution to all my problems with firewire and the
> HD3000, *if* it
> > > can be set up as a tuner in Myth. Wouldn't that require
> another capture
> > > card type? That's why I'm curious what they mean by
> "compatible with"
> > > MythTV.
> > >
> > Hi Greg,
> >
> > MythTV (svn trunk, soon to be 0.20) has a new capture
> device for direct
> > HDHomeRun support. There are no kernel drivers or
> dependencies to have
> > to get right.
> >
> > Configuring - run mythtv-setup and add two new capture
> devices of type
> > HDHomeRun. Configure the first device to use tuner 0 and the second
> > device to use tuner 1.
> >
> > You can run multiple HDHomeRun boxes - each box has two
> tuners so you
> > would add two MythTV devices for each HDHomeRun box.
> >
> > Nick
>
> I saw a comment along the way which indicated that data from the
> HDHomeRun box could be lost if the computer was heavily loaded. I got
> the impression that no handshaking is performed, and the HDHomeRun box
> has very little onboard buffer. Is this true? How much of a load can
> the computer be under and not have this problem?
>
> With a dedicated backend computer, I doubt there would be any problem.
> However, if the computer is performing frontend duties, I could
> easily see a load issue.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John

Does the HDHomeRun do what you'd expect and stream over UDP? That might be
a show stopper for a reliable recording of a show. A packet might be lost
through no fault of either sender or receiver.


_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

> Does the HDHomeRun do what you'd expect and stream over UDP? That might be
> a show stopper for a reliable recording of a show. A packet might be lost
> through no fault of either sender or receiver.
>
Hi Stan,

Control is over TCP, video streams over UDP.

I have run tests with using TCP for streaming and it works, however is
less compatible with other software. Short answer for a 100baseTX
network is that if you are losing packets then something is wrong with
your network :-)

I have been using MythTV with HDHomeRun as my main TV system for about 2
months now and the only problems I have are with one weak channel... I
need to get up on the roof and adjust the antenna :-)

Nick

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

On Mon, Jul 31, 2006 at 03:43:06PM -0600, John P Poet wrote:
> On 7/31/06, Paul V. Gratz <pgratz@gratz1.com> wrote:
> > On Monday 31 July 2006 16:29, Jafa wrote:
> > >
> > Very nice. Just out of curiosity are their plans for a "CableCard"
> > version of this to get digital data off cable networks (I live in an
> > area without much OTA HD).
> > Thanks!
> > Paul
>
> That would be SWEET!!!!
>

Since getting a cablecard slot licence requires that the equipment
not feed the clear data to unapproved or unsecured programs like
MythTV, it wouldn't be too useful in this community.
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

On 7/31/06, Brad Templeton <brad+myth@templetons.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2006 at 03:43:06PM -0600, John P Poet wrote:
> > On 7/31/06, Paul V. Gratz <pgratz@gratz1.com> wrote:
> > > On Monday 31 July 2006 16:29, Jafa wrote:
> > > >
> > > Very nice. Just out of curiosity are their plans for a "CableCard"
> > > version of this to get digital data off cable networks (I live in an
> > > area without much OTA HD).
> > > Thanks!
> > > Paul
> >
> > That would be SWEET!!!!
> >
>
> Since getting a cablecard slot licence requires that the equipment
> not feed the clear data to unapproved or unsecured programs like
> MythTV, it wouldn't be too useful in this community.

The damn pirates in the world sure make it hell for the rest of us.

John
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

On 7/31/06, Jafa <hdtv@silicondust.com> wrote:
>
> >> http://www.silicondust.com/main/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5
> >>
> >
> > It also claims to be "Compatible with: ... MythTV - DVR for Linux and
> > Mac". What does "compatible with" mean in this context? This might be a
> > great solution to all my problems with firewire and the HD3000, *if* it
> > can be set up as a tuner in Myth. Wouldn't that require another capture
> > card type? That's why I'm curious what they mean by "compatible with"
> > MythTV.
> >
> Hi Greg,
>
> MythTV (svn trunk, soon to be 0.20) has a new capture device for direct
> HDHomeRun support. There are no kernel drivers or dependencies to have
> to get right.
>
> Configuring - run mythtv-setup and add two new capture devices of type
> HDHomeRun. Configure the first device to use tuner 0 and the second
> device to use tuner 1.
>
> You can run multiple HDHomeRun boxes - each box has two tuners so you
> would add two MythTV devices for each HDHomeRun box.
>
> Nick

This sounds too good to be true! And for $169, the price I paid for
HD3000. And we have person working on it on this list, now how
wonderfull is that?

The picture seems rendered and info on the site seems a bit scarce.
Any other "real" puctures of the back of the unit showing connectors
and such?

Also (sorry for bombarding you with questions) I'm assuming the
control of the unit (channel changing and such) is done through
network since there is a mention of IR receiver "to singal you PC"?

1Gb ethernet would have been nicer in this day and age, I'm wondering
why go with 100Mb.
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

>>>> http://www.silicondust.com/main/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5
>>>>
>>>>
>> MythTV (svn trunk, soon to be 0.20) has a new capture device for direct
>> HDHomeRun support. There are no kernel drivers or dependencies to have
>> to get right.
>>
> This sounds too good to be true! And for $169, the price I paid for
> HD3000. And we have person working on it on this list, now how
> wonderfull is that?
>
> The picture seems rendered and info on the site seems a bit scarce.
> Any other "real" puctures of the back of the unit showing connectors
> and such?
>
Hi,

Real pictures will be this week when the production plastics arrive.

Ports on the back - Power, Ethernet, Antenna 1, Antenna 2.
> Also (sorry for bombarding you with questions) I'm assuming the
> control of the unit (channel changing and such) is done through
> network since there is a mention of IR receiver "to singal you PC"?
>
Control is via the network. You can control it from multiple computers
at the same time if desired (the two tuners can be controlled
independently).

The IR receiver works with LIRC using the built in udp mode of LIRC.
> 1Gb ethernet would have been nicer in this day and age, I'm wondering
> why go with 100Mb.
The max possible rate for ATSC is 20Mbps. Dual tuners = 40Mbps.

If you want to build the ultimate MythTV box and run say four HDHomeRun
units (8 tuners = 160Mbps), then you will need a gigabit switch... each
of the HDHomeRun units privodes 40Mbps and the switch will push it out
to the PC using gigabit speeds.

BTW - It has hardware PID filtering supported by MythTV so actual
throughput when using MythTV will be the bitrate of the program you are
watching/recording rather than the full 20Mbps unfiltered ATSC rate.

Nick

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

> Ports on the back - Power, Ethernet, Antenna 1, Antenna 2.


QAM support by chance? Sorry if this has been asked before and I missed it.

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

On 8/1/06, jafa <hdtv@silicondust.com> wrote:
>
> The max possible rate for ATSC is 20Mbps. Dual tuners = 40Mbps.
>
> If you want to build the ultimate MythTV box and run say four HDHomeRun
> units (8 tuners = 160Mbps), then you will need a gigabit switch... each
> of the HDHomeRun units privodes 40Mbps and the switch will push it out
> to the PC using gigabit speeds.
>

100Base-T in full-duplex has max rate of 200Mbps, which would still
suffice...providing the NIC and the switch are good enough to keep up.
I've not seen many NICs that can't handle 200Mbps, but I've seen
plenty of 100Base-T switches that can't sustain switching packets at
that rate.

Although, your PCI bus might get saturated. Not sure what the limits
are there and don't feel like googling it right now.

-Aaron
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

>
> If you want to build the ultimate MythTV box and run say four
HDHomeRun
> units (8 tuners = 160Mbps), then you will need a gigabit switch...
each
> of the HDHomeRun units privodes 40Mbps and the switch will push it out
> to the PC using gigabit speeds.
>


Just in case I missed something, we are talking about Free To Air
digital correct?

I mean how many FTA digital stations do you have in your city?


Cheers,
Dean
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

>> The max possible rate for ATSC is 20Mbps. Dual tuners = 40Mbps.
>>
>> If you want to build the ultimate MythTV box and run say four HDHomeRun
>> units (8 tuners = 160Mbps), then you will need a gigabit switch... each
>> of the HDHomeRun units privodes 40Mbps and the switch will push it out
>> to the PC using gigabit speeds.
>>
>>
>
> 100Base-T in full-duplex has max rate of 200Mbps, which would still
> suffice...providing the NIC and the switch are good enough to keep up.
>
Sort of.

100baseTX in full-duplex mode has a max transmit rate of 100Mbps and a
max receive rate of 100Mbps, and is capable of both at the same time.

If all the data is in one direction then you have a 100Mbps limit.

> I've not seen many NICs that can't handle 200Mbps, but I've seen
> plenty of 100Base-T switches that can't sustain switching packets at
> that rate.
>
BTW - The cpu+phy used in the HDHomeRun when programmed as a router can
do NAT translation at 100baseTX line speed :-)

Nick
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

>> If you want to build the ultimate MythTV box and run say four
>>
> HDHomeRun
>
>> units (8 tuners = 160Mbps), then you will need a gigabit switch...
>>
> each
>
>> of the HDHomeRun units privodes 40Mbps and the switch will push it out
>> to the PC using gigabit speeds.
>>
>>
>
>
> Just in case I missed something, we are talking about Free To Air
> digital correct?
>
> I mean how many FTA digital stations do you have in your city?
>
>
Maybe 25 odd including unique sub channels from San Francisco. San Jose
has a few more unique channels but I would need another antenna as the
current one is directional.

My main MythTV system is running three ATSC tuners and about once a week
records on all three at once.

I figure that two is a requirement for a TV system. Four is probably
overkill. Sometimes overkill is good :-)

Nick
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

On 8/1/06, jafa <hdtv@silicondust.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > 100Base-T in full-duplex has max rate of 200Mbps, which would still
> > suffice...providing the NIC and the switch are good enough to keep up.
> >
> Sort of.
>
> 100baseTX in full-duplex mode has a max transmit rate of 100Mbps and a
> max receive rate of 100Mbps, and is capable of both at the same time.
>
> If all the data is in one direction then you have a 100Mbps limit.
>

Right...good point. Running all 8 tuners at their theoretical max
would indeed saturate that. So, GigE it would indeed
be...theoretically.

-Aaron
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

On Tue, 1 Aug 2006, Dean Collins wrote:

> >
> > If you want to build the ultimate MythTV box and run say four
> HDHomeRun
> > units (8 tuners = 160Mbps), then you will need a gigabit switch...
> each
> > of the HDHomeRun units privodes 40Mbps and the switch will push it out
> > to the PC using gigabit speeds.
> >
>
>
> Just in case I missed something, we are talking about Free To Air
> digital correct?
>
> I mean how many FTA digital stations do you have in your city?

ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS all have a primary HD channel and 2 or 3 SD sub-channels
each. There are also a few small local TV stations that I can get OTA but I
never watch these.

Daniel

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users