Mailing List Archive

HTTPd Devs Considered Harmful to Apache2::Request users
For the past 25 years, I have been the lead developer of the libapreq2
subproject within the Apache HTTPd Server Parent Project. The original idea
of libapreq as a safe/performant HTML form and Cookie parsing library came
out of a collaboration between Lincoln Stein and Doug MacEachern in the
late 90s.

It was my vision back then to transform the library into a generic,
non-Perl related C library that would support language bindings from other
programming languages, which is why I pushed for the project to be homes
under the HTTPd umbrella instead of the Apache-Perl project.

While this vision was wildly successful, with language bindings available
for several languages like Perl, TCL, R, etc, ever since about 2010 its
proven tragic for the existing user community consisting of all of them,
not just Perl.

What happened? Philip Gollucci, a Perl/FreeBSD olleague of mine at the
time, started agitating that we promote the project to be released from
inside the HTTPd server itself. What Philip didn’t know very well back then
was how utterly vapid and territorial that team had become, which would
have meant having to collaborate with them directly on user-facing
decisions about the code base.

In 2012, Philip got what he wanted and I stopped resisting, so he forked
the existing project and copied the C library components into HTTPd core.

In 2016 I resigned from the Foundation en masse. You can guess the reasons.

In 2020 or so, Google’s Security Team took advantage of an alpha release of
httpd 2.5 by fuzzing its 8 year old copy of apreq. It found a few hotspots
that needed repair.

Instead of having the courtesy of reaching out to me, or anyone else
involved in development of apreq, a junior engineer on the HTTPd team went
about the business of “bug fixing” the vulnerabilities Google found. You
can see a record of his trial and error work in every release since then.

But the coup de grace was the 2022 release of 2.17, wherein the rookie
developer purposely introduced a fatal bug into the codebase, breaking a
fifteen year old regression test.

If you are wondering how something with a broken regression test winds up
on CPAN, you’ll have to look into how RELENG is done in the server project.

Long story short, they commented out the test and shipped it anyway, and
called it a Security Release that fixed a vulnerability every prior release
was susceptible to.

Why do I care now? Because I’m the sucker users reach out to for answers as
a known subject matter expert.

This sucks, but I’m sorry to tell you that my days wearing the Superman
cape at Apache ended 8 years ago.

--
Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
<https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
<joe@sunstarsys.com>
954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
Re: HTTPd Devs Considered Harmful to Apache2::Request users [ In reply to ]
So is there a cleaner/saner version of libapreq2 or is the 2012 version
better ?

On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 12:58?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com> wrote:

> For the past 25 years, I have been the lead developer of the libapreq2
> subproject within the Apache HTTPd Server Parent Project. The original idea
> of libapreq as a safe/performant HTML form and Cookie parsing library came
> out of a collaboration between Lincoln Stein and Doug MacEachern in the
> late 90s.
>
> It was my vision back then to transform the library into a generic,
> non-Perl related C library that would support language bindings from other
> programming languages, which is why I pushed for the project to be homes
> under the HTTPd umbrella instead of the Apache-Perl project.
>
> While this vision was wildly successful, with language bindings available
> for several languages like Perl, TCL, R, etc, ever since about 2010 its
> proven tragic for the existing user community consisting of all of them,
> not just Perl.
>
> What happened? Philip Gollucci, a Perl/FreeBSD olleague of mine at the
> time, started agitating that we promote the project to be released from
> inside the HTTPd server itself. What Philip didn’t know very well back then
> was how utterly vapid and territorial that team had become, which would
> have meant having to collaborate with them directly on user-facing
> decisions about the code base.
>
> In 2012, Philip got what he wanted and I stopped resisting, so he forked
> the existing project and copied the C library components into HTTPd core.
>
> In 2016 I resigned from the Foundation en masse. You can guess the reasons.
>
> In 2020 or so, Google’s Security Team took advantage of an alpha release
> of httpd 2.5 by fuzzing its 8 year old copy of apreq. It found a few
> hotspots that needed repair.
>
> Instead of having the courtesy of reaching out to me, or anyone else
> involved in development of apreq, a junior engineer on the HTTPd team went
> about the business of “bug fixing” the vulnerabilities Google found. You
> can see a record of his trial and error work in every release since then.
>
> But the coup de grace was the 2022 release of 2.17, wherein the rookie
> developer purposely introduced a fatal bug into the codebase, breaking a
> fifteen year old regression test.
>
> If you are wondering how something with a broken regression test winds up
> on CPAN, you’ll have to look into how RELENG is done in the server project.
>
> Long story short, they commented out the test and shipped it anyway, and
> called it a Security Release that fixed a vulnerability every prior release
> was susceptible to.
>
> Why do I care now? Because I’m the sucker users reach out to for answers
> as a known subject matter expert.
>
> This sucks, but I’m sorry to tell you that my days wearing the Superman
> cape at Apache ended 8 years ago.
>
> --
> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>
>
>
Re: HTTPd Devs Considered Harmful to Apache2::Request users [ In reply to ]
Also thank you for the library !

On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 1:11?PM Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com> wrote:

> So is there a cleaner/saner version of libapreq2 or is the 2012 version
> better ?
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 12:58?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com> wrote:
>
>> For the past 25 years, I have been the lead developer of the libapreq2
>> subproject within the Apache HTTPd Server Parent Project. The original idea
>> of libapreq as a safe/performant HTML form and Cookie parsing library came
>> out of a collaboration between Lincoln Stein and Doug MacEachern in the
>> late 90s.
>>
>> It was my vision back then to transform the library into a generic,
>> non-Perl related C library that would support language bindings from other
>> programming languages, which is why I pushed for the project to be homes
>> under the HTTPd umbrella instead of the Apache-Perl project.
>>
>> While this vision was wildly successful, with language bindings available
>> for several languages like Perl, TCL, R, etc, ever since about 2010 its
>> proven tragic for the existing user community consisting of all of them,
>> not just Perl.
>>
>> What happened? Philip Gollucci, a Perl/FreeBSD olleague of mine at the
>> time, started agitating that we promote the project to be released from
>> inside the HTTPd server itself. What Philip didn’t know very well back then
>> was how utterly vapid and territorial that team had become, which would
>> have meant having to collaborate with them directly on user-facing
>> decisions about the code base.
>>
>> In 2012, Philip got what he wanted and I stopped resisting, so he forked
>> the existing project and copied the C library components into HTTPd core.
>>
>> In 2016 I resigned from the Foundation en masse. You can guess the
>> reasons.
>>
>> In 2020 or so, Google’s Security Team took advantage of an alpha release
>> of httpd 2.5 by fuzzing its 8 year old copy of apreq. It found a few
>> hotspots that needed repair.
>>
>> Instead of having the courtesy of reaching out to me, or anyone else
>> involved in development of apreq, a junior engineer on the HTTPd team went
>> about the business of “bug fixing” the vulnerabilities Google found. You
>> can see a record of his trial and error work in every release since then.
>>
>> But the coup de grace was the 2022 release of 2.17, wherein the rookie
>> developer purposely introduced a fatal bug into the codebase, breaking a
>> fifteen year old regression test.
>>
>> If you are wondering how something with a broken regression test winds up
>> on CPAN, you’ll have to look into how RELENG is done in the server project.
>>
>> Long story short, they commented out the test and shipped it anyway, and
>> called it a Security Release that fixed a vulnerability every prior release
>> was susceptible to.
>>
>> Why do I care now? Because I’m the sucker users reach out to for answers
>> as a known subject matter expert.
>>
>> This sucks, but I’m sorry to tell you that my days wearing the Superman
>> cape at Apache ended 8 years ago.
>>
>> --
>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
>> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>>
>>
>>
Re: HTTPd Devs Considered Harmful to Apache2::Request users [ In reply to ]
Trunk is the safe bet.

Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
<https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
<joe@sunstarsys.com>
954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>




On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 2:11?PM Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
wrote:

> So is there a cleaner/saner version of libapreq2 or is the 2012 version
> better ?
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 12:58?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com> wrote:
>
>> For the past 25 years, I have been the lead developer of the libapreq2
>> subproject within the Apache HTTPd Server Parent Project. The original idea
>> of libapreq as a safe/performant HTML form and Cookie parsing library came
>> out of a collaboration between Lincoln Stein and Doug MacEachern in the
>> late 90s.
>>
>> It was my vision back then to transform the library into a generic,
>> non-Perl related C library that would support language bindings from other
>> programming languages, which is why I pushed for the project to be homes
>> under the HTTPd umbrella instead of the Apache-Perl project.
>>
>> While this vision was wildly successful, with language bindings available
>> for several languages like Perl, TCL, R, etc, ever since about 2010 its
>> proven tragic for the existing user community consisting of all of them,
>> not just Perl.
>>
>> What happened? Philip Gollucci, a Perl/FreeBSD olleague of mine at the
>> time, started agitating that we promote the project to be released from
>> inside the HTTPd server itself. What Philip didn’t know very well back then
>> was how utterly vapid and territorial that team had become, which would
>> have meant having to collaborate with them directly on user-facing
>> decisions about the code base.
>>
>> In 2012, Philip got what he wanted and I stopped resisting, so he forked
>> the existing project and copied the C library components into HTTPd core.
>>
>> In 2016 I resigned from the Foundation en masse. You can guess the
>> reasons.
>>
>> In 2020 or so, Google’s Security Team took advantage of an alpha release
>> of httpd 2.5 by fuzzing its 8 year old copy of apreq. It found a few
>> hotspots that needed repair.
>>
>> Instead of having the courtesy of reaching out to me, or anyone else
>> involved in development of apreq, a junior engineer on the HTTPd team went
>> about the business of “bug fixing” the vulnerabilities Google found. You
>> can see a record of his trial and error work in every release since then.
>>
>> But the coup de grace was the 2022 release of 2.17, wherein the rookie
>> developer purposely introduced a fatal bug into the codebase, breaking a
>> fifteen year old regression test.
>>
>> If you are wondering how something with a broken regression test winds up
>> on CPAN, you’ll have to look into how RELENG is done in the server project.
>>
>> Long story short, they commented out the test and shipped it anyway, and
>> called it a Security Release that fixed a vulnerability every prior release
>> was susceptible to.
>>
>> Why do I care now? Because I’m the sucker users reach out to for answers
>> as a known subject matter expert.
>>
>> This sucks, but I’m sorry to tell you that my days wearing the Superman
>> cape at Apache ended 8 years ago.
>>
>> --
>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
>> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>>
>>
>>
Re: HTTPd Devs Considered Harmful to Apache2::Request users [ In reply to ]
You are welcome, colleague!

Keep in mind the SoBs are threatening to release 2.18 as we speak, but like
everything else they do, it’s a dog and pony show in a Potemkin Village.

They simply are too lazy, inept, and mendacious to execute.

Use trunk, while it still exists.

Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
<https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
<joe@sunstarsys.com>
954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>




On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 2:12?PM Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Also thank you for the library !
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 1:11?PM Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> So is there a cleaner/saner version of libapreq2 or is the 2012 version
>> better ?
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 12:58?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For the past 25 years, I have been the lead developer of the libapreq2
>>> subproject within the Apache HTTPd Server Parent Project. The original idea
>>> of libapreq as a safe/performant HTML form and Cookie parsing library came
>>> out of a collaboration between Lincoln Stein and Doug MacEachern in the
>>> late 90s.
>>>
>>> It was my vision back then to transform the library into a generic,
>>> non-Perl related C library that would support language bindings from other
>>> programming languages, which is why I pushed for the project to be homes
>>> under the HTTPd umbrella instead of the Apache-Perl project.
>>>
>>> While this vision was wildly successful, with language bindings
>>> available for several languages like Perl, TCL, R, etc, ever since about
>>> 2010 its proven tragic for the existing user community consisting of all of
>>> them, not just Perl.
>>>
>>> What happened? Philip Gollucci, a Perl/FreeBSD olleague of mine at the
>>> time, started agitating that we promote the project to be released from
>>> inside the HTTPd server itself. What Philip didn’t know very well back then
>>> was how utterly vapid and territorial that team had become, which would
>>> have meant having to collaborate with them directly on user-facing
>>> decisions about the code base.
>>>
>>> In 2012, Philip got what he wanted and I stopped resisting, so he forked
>>> the existing project and copied the C library components into HTTPd core.
>>>
>>> In 2016 I resigned from the Foundation en masse. You can guess the
>>> reasons.
>>>
>>> In 2020 or so, Google’s Security Team took advantage of an alpha release
>>> of httpd 2.5 by fuzzing its 8 year old copy of apreq. It found a few
>>> hotspots that needed repair.
>>>
>>> Instead of having the courtesy of reaching out to me, or anyone else
>>> involved in development of apreq, a junior engineer on the HTTPd team went
>>> about the business of “bug fixing” the vulnerabilities Google found. You
>>> can see a record of his trial and error work in every release since then.
>>>
>>> But the coup de grace was the 2022 release of 2.17, wherein the rookie
>>> developer purposely introduced a fatal bug into the codebase, breaking a
>>> fifteen year old regression test.
>>>
>>> If you are wondering how something with a broken regression test winds
>>> up on CPAN, you’ll have to look into how RELENG is done in the server
>>> project.
>>>
>>> Long story short, they commented out the test and shipped it anyway, and
>>> called it a Security Release that fixed a vulnerability every prior release
>>> was susceptible to.
>>>
>>> Why do I care now? Because I’m the sucker users reach out to for answers
>>> as a known subject matter expert.
>>>
>>> This sucks, but I’m sorry to tell you that my days wearing the Superman
>>> cape at Apache ended 8 years ago.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
>>> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Re: HTTPd Devs Considered Harmful to Apache2::Request users [ In reply to ]
Could you clarify this - 2.17 has a critical bug and 2.18 is about to come
out which doesn't have a good enough patch so how would trunk be any better?

Also how is this passing make test or were the test cases modified to make
the bug pass ?

On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 1:12?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com> wrote:

> Trunk is the safe bet.
>
> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 2:11?PM Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> So is there a cleaner/saner version of libapreq2 or is the 2012 version
>> better ?
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 12:58?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For the past 25 years, I have been the lead developer of the libapreq2
>>> subproject within the Apache HTTPd Server Parent Project. The original idea
>>> of libapreq as a safe/performant HTML form and Cookie parsing library came
>>> out of a collaboration between Lincoln Stein and Doug MacEachern in the
>>> late 90s.
>>>
>>> It was my vision back then to transform the library into a generic,
>>> non-Perl related C library that would support language bindings from other
>>> programming languages, which is why I pushed for the project to be homes
>>> under the HTTPd umbrella instead of the Apache-Perl project.
>>>
>>> While this vision was wildly successful, with language bindings
>>> available for several languages like Perl, TCL, R, etc, ever since about
>>> 2010 its proven tragic for the existing user community consisting of all of
>>> them, not just Perl.
>>>
>>> What happened? Philip Gollucci, a Perl/FreeBSD olleague of mine at the
>>> time, started agitating that we promote the project to be released from
>>> inside the HTTPd server itself. What Philip didn’t know very well back then
>>> was how utterly vapid and territorial that team had become, which would
>>> have meant having to collaborate with them directly on user-facing
>>> decisions about the code base.
>>>
>>> In 2012, Philip got what he wanted and I stopped resisting, so he forked
>>> the existing project and copied the C library components into HTTPd core.
>>>
>>> In 2016 I resigned from the Foundation en masse. You can guess the
>>> reasons.
>>>
>>> In 2020 or so, Google’s Security Team took advantage of an alpha release
>>> of httpd 2.5 by fuzzing its 8 year old copy of apreq. It found a few
>>> hotspots that needed repair.
>>>
>>> Instead of having the courtesy of reaching out to me, or anyone else
>>> involved in development of apreq, a junior engineer on the HTTPd team went
>>> about the business of “bug fixing” the vulnerabilities Google found. You
>>> can see a record of his trial and error work in every release since then.
>>>
>>> But the coup de grace was the 2022 release of 2.17, wherein the rookie
>>> developer purposely introduced a fatal bug into the codebase, breaking a
>>> fifteen year old regression test.
>>>
>>> If you are wondering how something with a broken regression test winds
>>> up on CPAN, you’ll have to look into how RELENG is done in the server
>>> project.
>>>
>>> Long story short, they commented out the test and shipped it anyway, and
>>> called it a Security Release that fixed a vulnerability every prior release
>>> was susceptible to.
>>>
>>> Why do I care now? Because I’m the sucker users reach out to for answers
>>> as a known subject matter expert.
>>>
>>> This sucks, but I’m sorry to tell you that my days wearing the Superman
>>> cape at Apache ended 8 years ago.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
>>> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Re: HTTPd Devs Considered Harmful to Apache2::Request users [ In reply to ]
2.18 will never be released. They are shutting down the project.

Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
<https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
<joe@sunstarsys.com>
954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>




On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 4:32?PM Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Could you clarify this - 2.17 has a critical bug and 2.18 is about to come
> out which doesn't have a good enough patch so how would trunk be any better?
>
> Also how is this passing make test or were the test cases modified to make
> the bug pass ?
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 1:12?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com> wrote:
>
>> Trunk is the safe bet.
>>
>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
>> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 2:11?PM Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So is there a cleaner/saner version of libapreq2 or is the 2012 version
>>> better ?
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 12:58?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> For the past 25 years, I have been the lead developer of the libapreq2
>>>> subproject within the Apache HTTPd Server Parent Project. The original idea
>>>> of libapreq as a safe/performant HTML form and Cookie parsing library came
>>>> out of a collaboration between Lincoln Stein and Doug MacEachern in the
>>>> late 90s.
>>>>
>>>> It was my vision back then to transform the library into a generic,
>>>> non-Perl related C library that would support language bindings from other
>>>> programming languages, which is why I pushed for the project to be homes
>>>> under the HTTPd umbrella instead of the Apache-Perl project.
>>>>
>>>> While this vision was wildly successful, with language bindings
>>>> available for several languages like Perl, TCL, R, etc, ever since about
>>>> 2010 its proven tragic for the existing user community consisting of all of
>>>> them, not just Perl.
>>>>
>>>> What happened? Philip Gollucci, a Perl/FreeBSD olleague of mine at the
>>>> time, started agitating that we promote the project to be released from
>>>> inside the HTTPd server itself. What Philip didn’t know very well back then
>>>> was how utterly vapid and territorial that team had become, which would
>>>> have meant having to collaborate with them directly on user-facing
>>>> decisions about the code base.
>>>>
>>>> In 2012, Philip got what he wanted and I stopped resisting, so he
>>>> forked the existing project and copied the C library components into HTTPd
>>>> core.
>>>>
>>>> In 2016 I resigned from the Foundation en masse. You can guess the
>>>> reasons.
>>>>
>>>> In 2020 or so, Google’s Security Team took advantage of an alpha
>>>> release of httpd 2.5 by fuzzing its 8 year old copy of apreq. It found a
>>>> few hotspots that needed repair.
>>>>
>>>> Instead of having the courtesy of reaching out to me, or anyone else
>>>> involved in development of apreq, a junior engineer on the HTTPd team went
>>>> about the business of “bug fixing” the vulnerabilities Google found. You
>>>> can see a record of his trial and error work in every release since then.
>>>>
>>>> But the coup de grace was the 2022 release of 2.17, wherein the rookie
>>>> developer purposely introduced a fatal bug into the codebase, breaking a
>>>> fifteen year old regression test.
>>>>
>>>> If you are wondering how something with a broken regression test winds
>>>> up on CPAN, you’ll have to look into how RELENG is done in the server
>>>> project.
>>>>
>>>> Long story short, they commented out the test and shipped it anyway,
>>>> and called it a Security Release that fixed a vulnerability every prior
>>>> release was susceptible to.
>>>>
>>>> Why do I care now? Because I’m the sucker users reach out to for
>>>> answers as a known subject matter expert.
>>>>
>>>> This sucks, but I’m sorry to tell you that my days wearing the Superman
>>>> cape at Apache ended 8 years ago.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>>> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
>>>> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
Re: HTTPd Devs Considered Harmful to Apache2::Request users [ In reply to ]
So it will be moved to retired I assume or are they going to break their
own rules and purge it altogether?

On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 3:33?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com> wrote:

> 2.18 will never be released. They are shutting down the project.
>
> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 4:32?PM Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Could you clarify this - 2.17 has a critical bug and 2.18 is about to
>> come out which doesn't have a good enough patch so how would trunk be any
>> better?
>>
>> Also how is this passing make test or were the test cases modified to
>> make the bug pass ?
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 1:12?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Trunk is the safe bet.
>>>
>>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
>>> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 2:11?PM Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So is there a cleaner/saner version of libapreq2 or is the 2012 version
>>>> better ?
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 12:58?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For the past 25 years, I have been the lead developer of the libapreq2
>>>>> subproject within the Apache HTTPd Server Parent Project. The original idea
>>>>> of libapreq as a safe/performant HTML form and Cookie parsing library came
>>>>> out of a collaboration between Lincoln Stein and Doug MacEachern in the
>>>>> late 90s.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was my vision back then to transform the library into a generic,
>>>>> non-Perl related C library that would support language bindings from other
>>>>> programming languages, which is why I pushed for the project to be homes
>>>>> under the HTTPd umbrella instead of the Apache-Perl project.
>>>>>
>>>>> While this vision was wildly successful, with language bindings
>>>>> available for several languages like Perl, TCL, R, etc, ever since about
>>>>> 2010 its proven tragic for the existing user community consisting of all of
>>>>> them, not just Perl.
>>>>>
>>>>> What happened? Philip Gollucci, a Perl/FreeBSD olleague of mine at the
>>>>> time, started agitating that we promote the project to be released from
>>>>> inside the HTTPd server itself. What Philip didn’t know very well back then
>>>>> was how utterly vapid and territorial that team had become, which would
>>>>> have meant having to collaborate with them directly on user-facing
>>>>> decisions about the code base.
>>>>>
>>>>> In 2012, Philip got what he wanted and I stopped resisting, so he
>>>>> forked the existing project and copied the C library components into HTTPd
>>>>> core.
>>>>>
>>>>> In 2016 I resigned from the Foundation en masse. You can guess the
>>>>> reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>> In 2020 or so, Google’s Security Team took advantage of an alpha
>>>>> release of httpd 2.5 by fuzzing its 8 year old copy of apreq. It found a
>>>>> few hotspots that needed repair.
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead of having the courtesy of reaching out to me, or anyone else
>>>>> involved in development of apreq, a junior engineer on the HTTPd team went
>>>>> about the business of “bug fixing” the vulnerabilities Google found. You
>>>>> can see a record of his trial and error work in every release since then.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the coup de grace was the 2022 release of 2.17, wherein the rookie
>>>>> developer purposely introduced a fatal bug into the codebase, breaking a
>>>>> fifteen year old regression test.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are wondering how something with a broken regression test winds
>>>>> up on CPAN, you’ll have to look into how RELENG is done in the server
>>>>> project.
>>>>>
>>>>> Long story short, they commented out the test and shipped it anyway,
>>>>> and called it a Security Release that fixed a vulnerability every prior
>>>>> release was susceptible to.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do I care now? Because I’m the sucker users reach out to for
>>>>> answers as a known subject matter expert.
>>>>>
>>>>> This sucks, but I’m sorry to tell you that my days wearing the
>>>>> Superman cape at Apache ended 8 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>>>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>>>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>>>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>>>> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
>>>>> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
Re: HTTPd Devs Considered Harmful to Apache2::Request users [ In reply to ]
Would you trust any of them at this point?

I have a copy of svn trunk. I will never use anything they release, no
matter what they call it.

Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
<https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
<joe@sunstarsys.com>
954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>




On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 4:41?PM Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
wrote:

> So it will be moved to retired I assume or are they going to break their
> own rules and purge it altogether?
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 3:33?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com> wrote:
>
>> 2.18 will never be released. They are shutting down the project.
>>
>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
>> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 4:32?PM Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Could you clarify this - 2.17 has a critical bug and 2.18 is about to
>>> come out which doesn't have a good enough patch so how would trunk be any
>>> better?
>>>
>>> Also how is this passing make test or were the test cases modified to
>>> make the bug pass ?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 1:12?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Trunk is the safe bet.
>>>>
>>>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>>> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
>>>> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 2:11?PM Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So is there a cleaner/saner version of libapreq2 or is the 2012
>>>>> version better ?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 12:58?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> For the past 25 years, I have been the lead developer of the
>>>>>> libapreq2 subproject within the Apache HTTPd Server Parent Project. The
>>>>>> original idea of libapreq as a safe/performant HTML form and Cookie parsing
>>>>>> library came out of a collaboration between Lincoln Stein and Doug
>>>>>> MacEachern in the late 90s.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was my vision back then to transform the library into a generic,
>>>>>> non-Perl related C library that would support language bindings from other
>>>>>> programming languages, which is why I pushed for the project to be homes
>>>>>> under the HTTPd umbrella instead of the Apache-Perl project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While this vision was wildly successful, with language bindings
>>>>>> available for several languages like Perl, TCL, R, etc, ever since about
>>>>>> 2010 its proven tragic for the existing user community consisting of all of
>>>>>> them, not just Perl.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What happened? Philip Gollucci, a Perl/FreeBSD olleague of mine at
>>>>>> the time, started agitating that we promote the project to be released from
>>>>>> inside the HTTPd server itself. What Philip didn’t know very well back then
>>>>>> was how utterly vapid and territorial that team had become, which would
>>>>>> have meant having to collaborate with them directly on user-facing
>>>>>> decisions about the code base.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In 2012, Philip got what he wanted and I stopped resisting, so he
>>>>>> forked the existing project and copied the C library components into HTTPd
>>>>>> core.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In 2016 I resigned from the Foundation en masse. You can guess the
>>>>>> reasons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In 2020 or so, Google’s Security Team took advantage of an alpha
>>>>>> release of httpd 2.5 by fuzzing its 8 year old copy of apreq. It found a
>>>>>> few hotspots that needed repair.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Instead of having the courtesy of reaching out to me, or anyone else
>>>>>> involved in development of apreq, a junior engineer on the HTTPd team went
>>>>>> about the business of “bug fixing” the vulnerabilities Google found. You
>>>>>> can see a record of his trial and error work in every release since then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the coup de grace was the 2022 release of 2.17, wherein the
>>>>>> rookie developer purposely introduced a fatal bug into the codebase,
>>>>>> breaking a fifteen year old regression test.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are wondering how something with a broken regression test
>>>>>> winds up on CPAN, you’ll have to look into how RELENG is done in the server
>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Long story short, they commented out the test and shipped it anyway,
>>>>>> and called it a Security Release that fixed a vulnerability every prior
>>>>>> release was susceptible to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do I care now? Because I’m the sucker users reach out to for
>>>>>> answers as a known subject matter expert.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This sucks, but I’m sorry to tell you that my days wearing the
>>>>>> Superman cape at Apache ended 8 years ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>>>>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>>>>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>>>>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>>>>> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
>>>>>> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
Re: HTTPd Devs Considered Harmful to Apache2::Request users [ In reply to ]
Simply put, 2.17 was a fraudulent release according to HTTPd's own rules
for RM's. Under no circumstances may an RM unilaterally disable any
component of the test suite without notifying the remainder of the PMC *on
list*, because it is simply a deceptive practice for the rest of the group
to have to behave as if the RM is an adversary to both the people expecting
to vote on the candidate, and the downstream CPAN users who require the
test suite to pass before installing the software.

Not only was this never corrected, nor formally addressed by the board, the
RM actually failed *up* and became PMC chair.



On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 4:42?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com> wrote:

> Would you trust any of them at this point?
>
> I have a copy of svn trunk. I will never use anything they release, no
> matter what they call it.
>
> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 4:41?PM Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> So it will be moved to retired I assume or are they going to break their
>> own rules and purge it altogether?
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 3:33?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com> wrote:
>>
>>> 2.18 will never be released. They are shutting down the project.
>>>
>>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
>>> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 4:32?PM Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Could you clarify this - 2.17 has a critical bug and 2.18 is about to
>>>> come out which doesn't have a good enough patch so how would trunk be any
>>>> better?
>>>>
>>>> Also how is this passing make test or were the test cases modified to
>>>> make the bug pass ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 1:12?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Trunk is the safe bet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>>>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>>>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>>>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>>>> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
>>>>> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 2:11?PM Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So is there a cleaner/saner version of libapreq2 or is the 2012
>>>>>> version better ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 12:58?PM Joe Schaefer <joe@sunstarsys.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For the past 25 years, I have been the lead developer of the
>>>>>>> libapreq2 subproject within the Apache HTTPd Server Parent Project. The
>>>>>>> original idea of libapreq as a safe/performant HTML form and Cookie parsing
>>>>>>> library came out of a collaboration between Lincoln Stein and Doug
>>>>>>> MacEachern in the late 90s.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was my vision back then to transform the library into a generic,
>>>>>>> non-Perl related C library that would support language bindings from other
>>>>>>> programming languages, which is why I pushed for the project to be homes
>>>>>>> under the HTTPd umbrella instead of the Apache-Perl project.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While this vision was wildly successful, with language bindings
>>>>>>> available for several languages like Perl, TCL, R, etc, ever since about
>>>>>>> 2010 its proven tragic for the existing user community consisting of all of
>>>>>>> them, not just Perl.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What happened? Philip Gollucci, a Perl/FreeBSD olleague of mine at
>>>>>>> the time, started agitating that we promote the project to be released from
>>>>>>> inside the HTTPd server itself. What Philip didn’t know very well back then
>>>>>>> was how utterly vapid and territorial that team had become, which would
>>>>>>> have meant having to collaborate with them directly on user-facing
>>>>>>> decisions about the code base.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In 2012, Philip got what he wanted and I stopped resisting, so he
>>>>>>> forked the existing project and copied the C library components into HTTPd
>>>>>>> core.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In 2016 I resigned from the Foundation en masse. You can guess the
>>>>>>> reasons.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In 2020 or so, Google’s Security Team took advantage of an alpha
>>>>>>> release of httpd 2.5 by fuzzing its 8 year old copy of apreq. It found a
>>>>>>> few hotspots that needed repair.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Instead of having the courtesy of reaching out to me, or anyone else
>>>>>>> involved in development of apreq, a junior engineer on the HTTPd team went
>>>>>>> about the business of “bug fixing” the vulnerabilities Google found. You
>>>>>>> can see a record of his trial and error work in every release since then.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the coup de grace was the 2022 release of 2.17, wherein the
>>>>>>> rookie developer purposely introduced a fatal bug into the codebase,
>>>>>>> breaking a fifteen year old regression test.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you are wondering how something with a broken regression test
>>>>>>> winds up on CPAN, you’ll have to look into how RELENG is done in the server
>>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Long story short, they commented out the test and shipped it anyway,
>>>>>>> and called it a Security Release that fixed a vulnerability every prior
>>>>>>> release was susceptible to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why do I care now? Because I’m the sucker users reach out to for
>>>>>>> answers as a known subject matter expert.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This sucks, but I’m sorry to tell you that my days wearing the
>>>>>>> Superman cape at Apache ended 8 years ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Joe Schaefer, Ph.D.
>>>>>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>>>>>> Orion - The Enterprise Jamstack Wiki
>>>>>>> <https://sunstarsys.com/orion/features>
>>>>>>> <joe@sunstarsys.com>
>>>>>>> 954.253.3732 <//954.253.3732>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>