Mailing List Archive

On Tue, 2003-10-07 at 15:05, C.J. Collier wrote:
> I think Amazon.com should be listed next to Slashdot & Wired Magazine as
> a site that uses mod_perl. They're a HTML::Mason shop.

They use FastCGI. Still a great puff for Perl, but nor for mod_perl
specifically.

- Perrin

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"Perrin Harkins" wrote:
> > Sorry to bring this up again, but I think there should be a section on
> > the mod_perl site listing Amazon.
>
> I'd certainly like to see it featured on perl.com, and it is featured on
> masonhq.com. If you have an idea for how to do it on the mod_perl site
> without saying that Amazon uses mod_perl, go for it. Send your diffs to
> the documentation discussion list.
> - Perrin
>

Yea, I've tried a couple of things, but I cant get the wording right - want
to say "Amazon uses perl" but without slating mod_perl. I really don't see
why we shouldn't come right out and say they use Mason with FastCGI. There
is nothing wrong with mentioning competitors - most technology books set out
a list of alternative solutions (with a slight slant on why you shouldn't
use them ;) ). Maybe there is a case for a section listing alternatives to
mod_perl??

any thoughts?

Regards

Simon


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Simon McCaughey wrote:
> "Perrin Harkins" wrote:
>
>>>Sorry to bring this up again, but I think there should be a section on
>>>the mod_perl site listing Amazon.
>>
>>I'd certainly like to see it featured on perl.com, and it is featured on
>>masonhq.com. If you have an idea for how to do it on the mod_perl site
>>without saying that Amazon uses mod_perl, go for it. Send your diffs to
>>the documentation discussion list.
>>- Perrin
>>
>
>
> Yea, I've tried a couple of things, but I cant get the wording right - want
> to say "Amazon uses perl" but without slating mod_perl. I really don't see
> why we shouldn't come right out and say they use Mason with FastCGI. There
> is nothing wrong with mentioning competitors - most technology books set out
> a list of alternative solutions (with a slight slant on why you shouldn't
> use them ;) ). Maybe there is a case for a section listing alternatives to
> mod_perl??
>
> any thoughts?

If we start doing that, we will need to add a whole lot of other competing
things. IMHO, if Amazon ain't using mod_perl, it doesn't belong to
perl.apache.org.

__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com


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I agree with Stas. Obviously it would be nice to have Amazon on the
list, but if they are not mod_perl users then there's nothing we can do
about. Let's move on and find other premium mod_perl users.

I would like to introduce a new mod_perl user to the list.

Virtual Schools (http://virtualschools.net/) is a new project here in
the UK, established with the aim of giving all UK schools the
opportunity to run a powerful CMS, ecommerce platform and virtual
learning environment.

Virtual Schools runs on Digital-Word's "Shapeshifter CMS"
(http://digital-word.com/) which is built on the tried and tested LAMP
platform (Linux, Apache, MySQL, mod_Perl). Each single commodity server
currently serves approximately 15000 students, plus teachers (and other
school staff) and parents.

The Virtual Schools project was heavily hit during and after a recent
press launch, but the mod_perl servers coped admirably with the extra
traffic and the heavy load caused no ill-effects.

Kindest regards,

Jonathan M. Hollin
Digital-Word Ltd
{http://digital-word.com/)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stas Bekman [mailto:stas@stason.org]
> Sent: 27 November 2003 09:10
> To: Simon McCaughey
> Cc: Perrin Harkins; docs-dev@perl.apache.org
> Subject: [mod_perl] Re: Other sites that use mod_perl
>
>
> Simon McCaughey wrote:
> > "Perrin Harkins" wrote:
> >
> >>>Sorry to bring this up again, but I think there should be
> a section
> >>>on the mod_perl site listing Amazon.
> >>
> >>I'd certainly like to see it featured on perl.com, and it
> is featured
> >>on masonhq.com. If you have an idea for how to do it on
> the mod_perl
> >>site without saying that Amazon uses mod_perl, go for it.
> Send your
> >>diffs to the documentation discussion list.
> >>- Perrin
> >>
> >
> >
> > Yea, I've tried a couple of things, but I cant get the
> wording right -
> > want to say "Amazon uses perl" but without slating
> mod_perl. I really
> > don't see why we shouldn't come right out and say they use
> Mason with
> > FastCGI. There is nothing wrong with mentioning competitors - most
> > technology books set out a list of alternative solutions (with a
> > slight slant on why you shouldn't use them ;) ). Maybe
> there is a case
> > for a section listing alternatives to mod_perl??
> >
> > any thoughts?
>
> If we start doing that, we will need to add a whole lot of
> other competing
> things. IMHO, if Amazon ain't using mod_perl, it doesn't belong to
> perl.apache.org.
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
> http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
> mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
> http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
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>
>


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Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
> I agree with Stas. Obviously it would be nice to have Amazon on the
> list, but if they are not mod_perl users then there's nothing we can do
> about. Let's move on and find other premium mod_perl users.

Good idea, Jonathan. I guess we should do this call every so often. May be we
should post this on use.perl.org as I did some time before.

> I would like to introduce a new mod_perl user to the list.
>
> Virtual Schools (http://virtualschools.net/) is a new project here in
> the UK, established with the aim of giving all UK schools the
> opportunity to run a powerful CMS, ecommerce platform and virtual
> learning environment.
>
> Virtual Schools runs on Digital-Word's "Shapeshifter CMS"
> (http://digital-word.com/) which is built on the tried and tested LAMP
> platform (Linux, Apache, MySQL, mod_Perl). Each single commodity server
> currently serves approximately 15000 students, plus teachers (and other
> school staff) and parents.
>
> The Virtual Schools project was heavily hit during and after a recent
> press launch, but the mod_perl servers coped admirably with the extra
> traffic and the heavy load caused no ill-effects.

Where would you like to add this info? The success stories? If you can post a
patch, that would be the easiest... Thanks Jonathan.

__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com


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> Good idea, Jonathan. I guess we should do this call every so
> often. May be we
> should post this on use.perl.org as I did some time before.

I'm just not sure how we'd go about finding the information. Sure, we
could use NetCraft (or similar) to test for mod_perl installations, but
finding them is no guarantee that websites on the server are running
with mod_perl. So, my question is, how do we do it? If anyone can answer
this, then I would be more than happy to commit some time and effort to
the search.

> > I would like to introduce a new mod_perl user to the list.
> >
> > Virtual Schools (http://virtualschools.net/) is a new
> project here in
> > the UK, established with the aim of giving all UK schools the
> > opportunity to run a powerful CMS, ecommerce platform and virtual
> > learning environment.
> >
> > Virtual Schools runs on Digital-Word's "Shapeshifter CMS"
> > (http://digital-word.com/) which is built on the tried and
> tested LAMP
> > platform (Linux, Apache, MySQL, mod_Perl). Each single commodity
> > server currently serves approximately 15000 students, plus teachers
> > (and other school staff) and parents.
> >
> > The Virtual Schools project was heavily hit during and
> after a recent
> > press launch, but the mod_perl servers coped admirably with
> the extra
> > traffic and the heavy load caused no ill-effects.
>
> Where would you like to add this info? The success stories?
> If you can post a
> patch, that would be the easiest... Thanks Jonathan.

"Success Stories" would be a great location. How do I submit a patch?
Can you please provide an example of the required format?

Thank you.

Jonathan M. Hollin
Digital-Word Ltd
(http://digital-word.com/)


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"Jonathan M. Hollin" wrote:
> I agree with Stas. Obviously it would be nice to have Amazon on the
> list, but if they are not mod_perl users then there's nothing we can do
> about. Let's move on and find other premium mod_perl users.
>

Fair enough, I just wanted to bring it up. I found quite a bit of confusion
on the net about Amazon using Perl, but not mod_perl.

Our team tried to advocate Perl for an internal enterprise web application,
and failed, I would say that amazon.com may have clinched it (just didn't
find out in time) We developed a prototype site in Perl/mod_perl/linux etc -
>40000 lines of new code, 2 engineers, 6 weeks - almost fully functional
(>90% of feature set). The rest of the "proper engineers" are still arguing
about the implementation of the "proper site" in a "proper language" - java,
one year, 7 engineers and no code (well one failed repository of code).

Anyhow, thanks for listening, I respect your wishes, perhaps the mod_perl
site shouldn't have an "alternatives" section

Kind regards

Simon.


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> Our team tried to advocate Perl for an internal enterprise
> web application, and failed, I would say that amazon.com may
> have clinched it (just didn't find out in time) We developed
> a prototype site in Perl/mod_perl/linux etc -
> >40000 lines of new code, 2 engineers, 6 weeks - almost fully
> functional
> (>90% of feature set). The rest of the "proper engineers" are
> still arguing about the implementation of the "proper site"
> in a "proper language" - java, one year, 7 engineers and no
> code (well one failed repository of code).

Yes, that's a common enough story. I have encountered this several
times: pitch to prospective client a web-project built on Linux, Apache,
MySQL, mod_perl. Client reviews pitch... Okays Linux and Apache. Talks
for a long time about Oracle instead of MySQL. Checks pricing on Oracle
and then okays MySQL... and then... Decides not go with the "scripting"
language, but opts for a Java or .Net solution.

In the meantime a couple of programmers here have built a virtually
fully-functioning prototype to demonstrate to potential client and for
benchmarking. Client still decides he wants a "proper" programming
language. Months (and thousands of man-hours) later and the client has
nothing to show for the effort.

It never ceases to amaze me how many prospective clients come back to us
after they've tried (and failed) with an alternative implementation.
This happens frequently enough for us to be able to justify the
man-hours committed to prototype development.

Long live mod_perl.

Jonathan M. Hollin
Digital-Word Ltd
(http://digital-word.com/)


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Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
>>Good idea, Jonathan. I guess we should do this call every so
>>often. May be we
>>should post this on use.perl.org as I did some time before.
>
>
> I'm just not sure how we'd go about finding the information. Sure, we
> could use NetCraft (or similar) to test for mod_perl installations, but
> finding them is no guarantee that websites on the server are running
> with mod_perl. So, my question is, how do we do it? If anyone can answer
> this, then I would be more than happy to commit some time and effort to
> the search.

It's rather simple. Don't try to to figure out who uses what, but ask in
public about that input. A post to use.perl.org or another similar forum
should be bring a wave of inputs. Besides success stories and products we want
to ask for information about ISPs and companies that teach mod_perl, for which
we have dedicated pages, but too little information.

>>Where would you like to add this info? The success stories?
>>If you can post a
>>patch, that would be the easiest... Thanks Jonathan.
>
>
> "Success Stories" would be a great location. How do I submit a patch?
> Can you please provide an example of the required format?

Check out the modperl-docs cvs repository, then go to
src/outstanding/success_stories/, add a new .txt file, run ./make.pl and it'll
create the .pod file. Alternatively just post here what you want to be added,
look at other success stories to get an idea of what people write. Make sure
you provide the info requested at the bottom of this page:
http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/success_stories/index.html


__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com


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