Mailing List Archive

Jeff Bisbee wrote:

>Just spoke to Gavin Estey, the current Perl Foundation Public Relations
>chair, and he's agreed to help out.
>
That's great news!

> He should be joining the list
>shortly. Been _very_ busy since I got back from OSCON and was finally
>able to sign up to advocacy list last night.
>
>
Well, that's probably true for most of us. I had a good week of work
piled up
waiting for me ;-)

>BTW, who currently maintains the perl.apache.org site?
>
All the people with write privileges to the modperl-site are :
stas,cholet,ask,randyk,dougm,geoff,gozer,
rse,fdc,khera,richter,ix,dharris,jochen,ged,
perrin,moseley,pereinar,theory

> Once you get
>press releases and news stories rolling out, I think they shold be on
>the home page.
>
Yes, we have started talking about having a 'News' section to the front
page for
thigns like this and more.

> They should also be syndicated via RSS to reach more
>people.
>
Yup, and if php can have it's own category/logo on slashdot, we should
be able
to get one too.

> Not sure if you guys currently have something in place, but it
>should be done by the time mod_perl hits 2.0.
>
>
Not sure what you mean by that ?

>-- Jeff Bisbee / mod_perl-advocacy@jbisbee.com / jbisbee.com
>
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On Thu, 2004-08-05 at 21:27, Jeff Bisbee wrote:
> BTW, who currently maintains the perl.apache.org site? Once you get
> press releases and news stories rolling out, I think they shold be on
> the home page. They should also be syndicated via RSS to reach more
> people.

I volunteered to work on this. If anyone else wants to help with the
required changes to the site code, let me know. It is available for
download, and I have commit access so I can vet patches.

- Perrin


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Perrin Harkins wrote:

| On Thu, 2004-08-05 at 21:27, Jeff Bisbee wrote:
|
|> BTW, who currently maintains the perl.apache.org site? Once you
|> get press releases and news stories rolling out, I think they
|> shold be on the home page. They should also be syndicated via
|> RSS to reach more people.
|
|
| I volunteered to work on this. If anyone else wants to help with
| the required changes to the site code, let me know. It is
| available for download, and I have commit access so I can vet
| patches.

Cool Perrin! It would be nice to be able to regularly add news
stories, and keep
the last 2-3 up on the homepage, unless they are older than a certain
threshold.

One thing I think worse than a "What's new?" section is stale news on
a "What's new?"
section ;-)

| - Perrin
|
|
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Philippe M. Chiasson wrote:

>> BTW, who currently maintains the perl.apache.org site?

> All the people with write privileges to the modperl-site are :
> stas,cholet,ask,randyk,dougm,geoff,gozer,
> rse,fdc,khera,richter,ix,dharris,jochen,ged,
> perrin,moseley,pereinar,theory

Actually it's not the case. modperl-site is a legacy repository which
exists for the only reason of Gerald not moving his embperl docs
over/away. Otherwise modperl-site is dead.

modperl-docs is the new repository which is the base of what you see at
perl.apache.org. So the perms are probabaly different for that rep.

For more information see:
http://perl.apache.org/download/docs.html

Jeff, if you will start sending patching, very quickly you will get a
commit access to make you more productive. That applies for anybody else
who wants to contribute :)

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Stas Bekman wrote:

| Philippe M. Chiasson wrote:
|
|>> BTW, who currently maintains the perl.apache.org site?
|
|
|> All the people with write privileges to the modperl-site are :
|> stas,cholet,ask,randyk,dougm,geoff,gozer,
|> rse,fdc,khera,richter,ix,dharris,jochen,ged,
|> perrin,moseley,pereinar,theory
|
|
| Actually it's not the case. modperl-site is a legacy repository
| which exists for the only reason of Gerald not moving his embperl
| docs over/away. Otherwise modperl-site is dead.

Oupss, thanks for the precisions Stas!

Coincidentelly, the user perms for modperl-docs and modperl-site are
the same, so my list still stands ;-)

| modperl-docs is the new repository which is the base of what you
| see at perl.apache.org. So the perms are probabaly different for
| that rep.
|
| For more information see: http://perl.apache.org/download/docs.html
|
|
| Jeff, if you will start sending patching, very quickly you will get
| a commit access to make you more productive. That applies for
| anybody else who wants to contribute :)

Absolutely correct!

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Please don't forget to hit Reply-All. I'll ask to setup Reply-To header
back to the list.

Jeff Bisbee wrote:
> * Stas Bekman (stas@stason.org) wrote:
>
>>Jeff, if you will start sending patching, very quickly you will get a
>>commit access to make you more productive. That applies for anybody else
>>who wants to contribute :)
>
>
> Sounds like a plan. I'd also like to get the mail issue fixed with
> ezmlm. It seems that even though I signed up with
> mod_perl-advocacy@jbisbee.com and am getting mail to that address, my
> messages are coming through as mod_perl-advocacy@jbisbee.com and being held for
> moderation. Sounds like a config param or something to me. Anyone know
> who maintains the mailing lists for you guys? I'd like to resolve this
> issue as quickly as possible.

Check that your From: address matches.

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Hello Perrin,

> I volunteered to work on this. If anyone else wants to help with
> the
> required changes to the site code, let me know. It is available for
> download, and I have commit access so I can vet patches.

I would like to help.

What needs to be done? Is it more html or perl coding?


Bye,
Uwe


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On Sat, 2004-08-07 at 06:13, Uwe Voelker wrote:
> I would like to help.
>
> What needs to be done? Is it more html or perl coding?

It's both. What I had in mind was a file that we would add news items
to, probably in XML or some other format with a handy parser already
written. Then we need to hook into the site generation script to read
this file, put the first 3 items on the home page if they are newer than
60 days, generate an archive page for the rest up to a year old, and
generate an RSS file for the latest 10 items.

Check out the site code by following the instructions here:
http://perl.apache.org/download/docs.html

- Perrin


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Perrin Harkins wrote:

>On Sat, 2004-08-07 at 06:13, Uwe Voelker wrote:
>
>
>>I would like to help.
>>
>>What needs to be done? Is it more html or perl coding?
>>
>>
>
>It's both. What I had in mind was a file that we would add news items
>to, probably in XML or some other format with a handy parser already
>written.
>
How about POD or YAML for a simple format like that one ? Keeping the
pool of possible
authors/reporters as high as possible.

> Then we need to hook into the site generation script to read
>this file, put the first 3 items on the home page if they are newer than
>60 days, generate an archive page for the rest up to a year old, and
>generate an RSS file for the latest 10 items.
>
>
Sounds about right to me.

>Check out the site code by following the instructions here:
>http://perl.apache.org/download/docs.html
>
>- Perrin
>
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Philippe M. Chiasson wrote:
> Perrin Harkins wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 2004-08-07 at 06:13, Uwe Voelker wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I would like to help.
>>>
>>> What needs to be done? Is it more html or perl coding?
>>>
>>
>>
>> It's both. What I had in mind was a file that we would add news items
>> to, probably in XML or some other format with a handy parser already
>> written.
>>
> How about POD or YAML for a simple format like that one ? Keeping the
> pool of possible
> authors/reporters as high as possible.

+1 to stand clear of XXXml ;)

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Perrin Harkins wrote:
> On Sat, 2004-08-07 at 06:13, Uwe Voelker wrote:
>
>>I would like to help.
>>
>>What needs to be done? Is it more html or perl coding?
>
>
> It's both. What I had in mind was a file that we would add news items
> to, probably in XML or some other format with a handy parser already
> written. Then we need to hook into the site generation script to read
> this file, put the first 3 items on the home page if they are newer than
> 60 days, generate an archive page for the rest up to a year old, and
> generate an RSS file for the latest 10 items.
>
> Check out the site code by following the instructions here:
> http://perl.apache.org/download/docs.html

May be it's the simplest to setup wiki? it can live in the checkout
directory w/o having anything to do with the site generation. just an idea.

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> +1 to stand clear of XXXml ;)

But RSS is XML.

What types of news should be published?
- new page 'advocacy', see link ...
- new success story, see link ...
- new success story, full text

Who writes the news?


Bye, Uwe


PS: Can we use cpan modules (like XML::RSS)?


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On Mon, 2004-08-09 at 05:25, Stas Bekman wrote:
> Philippe M. Chiasson wrote:
> > How about POD or YAML for a simple format like that one ? Keeping the
> > pool of possible
> > authors/reporters as high as possible.
>
> +1 to stand clear of XXXml ;)

I can't imagine that more people know YAML than basic XML. I know I've
avoided YAML so far, since it seems pretty pointless to me. I don't
think POD or a wiki would provide enough structure for this use (we need
a headline, body, date, poster, etc.), although I suppose we could make
POD work by requiring a strict structure for news items.

One way to do it would be to simply write into a large RSS file by hand,
and let a script grab the last 10 of those for the real RSS feed and for
generating the pages.

- Perrin


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On Mon, 2004-08-09 at 05:37, Uwe Voelker wrote:
> What types of news should be published?
> - new page 'advocacy', see link ...

Yes.

> - new success story, see link ...

Yes.

> - new success story, full text

No, just a short description. Think blog.

> Who writes the news?

Me, and anyone else who wants to contribute.

> PS: Can we use cpan modules (like XML::RSS)?

We can certainly use pure perl ones (with a local lib directory). Ones
that require compiling may be trickier. I'm not sure about the
capabilities of the box this runs on.

- Perrin


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Uwe Voelker wrote:
>>+1 to stand clear of XXXml ;)
>
>
> But RSS is XML.

Yes, but it doesn't mean that the source should be written in XML.

BTW, take a look at http://perl.apache.org/jobs/jobs.html
which gets its feed from perl.org via this simple js:

"JavaScript" type="text/javascript"
src="http://jobs.perl.org/rss/mod_perl.js?limit=25;details=1"></script>

I think that would be perfect, and doesn't require any modifications to
the current site. And the feed can live anywhere.


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Uwe Voelker wrote:
>>+1 to stand clear of XXXml ;)
>
>
> But RSS is XML.

The format in which we edit or submit stories doesn't
have to be XML, as long as XML can be _generated_ easily
from it to create the RSS feeds

> What types of news should be published?
> - new page 'advocacy', see link ...
> - new success story, see link ...
> - new success story, full text
>
> Who writes the news?

It would be great if a few people acted as editors, reviewing
stories, etc. But all in all, I'd love it if submitting a news
story was kept as simple as possible so that a big pool of mod_perl
users can easily submit a piece of news while requiring minimal work
for the editors to put in.

>
> Bye, Uwe
>
>
> PS: Can we use cpan modules (like XML::RSS)?
>
>
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Perrin Harkins wrote:
> On Mon, 2004-08-09 at 05:25, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>Philippe M. Chiasson wrote:
>>
>>>How about POD or YAML for a simple format like that one ? Keeping the
>>>pool of possible
>>>authors/reporters as high as possible.
>>
>>+1 to stand clear of XXXml ;)
>
>
> I can't imagine that more people know YAML than basic XML. I know I've
> avoided YAML so far, since it seems pretty pointless to me. I don't
> think POD or a wiki would provide enough structure for this use (we need
> a headline, body, date, poster, etc.), although I suppose we could make
> POD work by requiring a strict structure for news items.
>
> One way to do it would be to simply write into a large RSS file by hand,
> and let a script grab the last 10 of those for the real RSS feed and for
> generating the pages.

Yuck. The front-end doesn't have to be anything format specific. Just
have a simple form for content management. I really liked the Bricolage
presentation at OSCon, it's so easy to create and manipulate data.

Can you please take a look at how jobs.perl.org works. I'm not sure what
they are using behind the scenes, but it seems to work great.


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On Mon, 2004-08-09 at 14:12, Stas Bekman wrote:
> > One way to do it would be to simply write into a large RSS file by hand,
> > and let a script grab the last 10 of those for the real RSS feed and for
> > generating the pages.
>
> Yuck. The front-end doesn't have to be anything format specific.

There doesn't need to be a front-end. People who don't have access to
the site CVS just send submissions to an editor.

> Just
> have a simple form for content management. I really liked the Bricolage
> presentation at OSCon, it's so easy to create and manipulate data.

Bricolage, like any CMS with a similar breadth of features, is far from
simple. I don't see any need to have a web form. This is just basic
structured data, which can be written to a flat file. I would like to
preserve the current situation where the site is not dynamic except for
the search.

> Can you please take a look at how jobs.perl.org works. I'm not sure what
> they are using behind the scenes, but it seems to work great.

Presumably they use a database. jobs.perl.org is orders of magnitude
more complex than a simple news listing.

- Perrin


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Perrin Harkins wrote:
> On Mon, 2004-08-09 at 14:12, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>>One way to do it would be to simply write into a large RSS file by hand,
>>>and let a script grab the last 10 of those for the real RSS feed and for
>>>generating the pages.
>>
>>Yuck. The front-end doesn't have to be anything format specific.
>
>
> There doesn't need to be a front-end. People who don't have access to
> the site CVS just send submissions to an editor.
>
>
>>Just
>>have a simple form for content management. I really liked the Bricolage
>>presentation at OSCon, it's so easy to create and manipulate data.
>
>
> Bricolage, like any CMS with a similar breadth of features, is far from
> simple. I don't see any need to have a web form. This is just basic
> structured data, which can be written to a flat file. I would like to
> preserve the current situation where the site is not dynamic except for
> the search.
>
>
>>Can you please take a look at how jobs.perl.org works. I'm not sure what
>>they are using behind the scenes, but it seems to work great.
>
>
> Presumably they use a database. jobs.perl.org is orders of magnitude
> more complex than a simple news listing.

How about:

Author: Philippe M. Chiasson
Title: How mod_perl saved my life!
Reference: http://www.cnn.com/mod_perl_saved_my_life.html
Author Icon: http://gozer.ectoplasm.org/me.gif
Category: Success Stories
Abstract: Philippe was walking down the street one day and he was almost
run over by a bus. He owes his life to the mod_perl book he had just
purchased and tells us how it happened.
Story: bla bla bla bla

Shouldn't something like this be simple enough for our initial needs ?


> - Perrin
>
>
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On Mon, 2004-08-09 at 14:42, Philippe M. Chiasson wrote:
> How about:
>
> Author: Philippe M. Chiasson
> Title: How mod_perl saved my life!
> Reference: http://www.cnn.com/mod_perl_saved_my_life.html
> Author Icon: http://gozer.ectoplasm.org/me.gif
> Category: Success Stories
> Abstract: Philippe was walking down the street one day and he was almost
> run over by a bus. He owes his life to the mod_perl book he had just
> purchased and tells us how it happened.
> Story: bla bla bla bla
>
> Shouldn't something like this be simple enough for our initial needs ?

Sure, with some small tweaks (add a date, remove separate story, remove
reference, change author icon to story image). See http://php.net/ for
an idea of what I'm going for.

Glancing at the YAML docs, it looks like putting "----" between those
would make them parseable as records, so maybe we'll use that after all.

- Perrin


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Perrin Harkins wrote:
> On Mon, 2004-08-09 at 14:12, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>>One way to do it would be to simply write into a large RSS file by hand,
>>>and let a script grab the last 10 of those for the real RSS feed and for
>>>generating the pages.
>>
>>Yuck. The front-end doesn't have to be anything format specific.
>
>
> There doesn't need to be a front-end. People who don't have access to
> the site CVS just send submissions to an editor.

That's the whole point. In order to make things simple, it shouldn't
require commit access or anything list that. We could even use a
simplified version of slashdot, so people can submit stories, people can
comment on them, making it much more efficient and not creating any
bottlenecks.

>>Just
>>have a simple form for content management. I really liked the Bricolage
>>presentation at OSCon, it's so easy to create and manipulate data.
>
>
> Bricolage, like any CMS with a similar breadth of features, is far from
> simple. I don't see any need to have a web form. This is just basic
> structured data, which can be written to a flat file. I would like to
> preserve the current situation where the site is not dynamic except for
> the search.

Agreed.

>>Can you please take a look at how jobs.perl.org works. I'm not sure what
>>they are using behind the scenes, but it seems to work great.
>
>
> Presumably they use a database. jobs.perl.org is orders of magnitude
> more complex than a simple news listing.

OK

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> How about:
>
> Author: Philippe M. Chiasson
> Title: How mod_perl saved my life!
> Reference: http://www.cnn.com/mod_perl_saved_my_life.html
> Author Icon: http://gozer.ectoplasm.org/me.gif
> Category: Success Stories
> Abstract: Philippe was walking down the street one day and he was almost
> run over by a bus. He owes his life to the mod_perl book he had just
> purchased and tells us how it happened.
> Story: bla bla bla bla

Which is a plain email with extra fields. In fact we already use that.
Take a look at:
http://perl.apache.org/outstanding/success_stories/index.html
each of these entries originates from .txt files which is an original
email with a few extra fields. It's then transformed into pod, and
finally to html.
Check
modperl-docs/src/outstanding/success_stories/




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Perrin Harkins wrote:
> On Mon, 2004-08-09 at 14:42, Philippe M. Chiasson wrote:
>
>>How about:
>>
>>Author: Philippe M. Chiasson
>>Title: How mod_perl saved my life!
>>Reference: http://www.cnn.com/mod_perl_saved_my_life.html
>>Author Icon: http://gozer.ectoplasm.org/me.gif
>>Category: Success Stories
>>Abstract: Philippe was walking down the street one day and he was almost
>> run over by a bus. He owes his life to the mod_perl book he had just
>> purchased and tells us how it happened.
>>Story: bla bla bla bla
>>
>>Shouldn't something like this be simple enough for our initial needs ?
>
>
> Sure, with some small tweaks (add a date, remove separate story, remove
> reference, change author icon to story image). See http://php.net/ for
> an idea of what I'm going for.
>
> Glancing at the YAML docs, it looks like putting "----" between those
> would make them parseable as records, so maybe we'll use that after all.

For instance :

$> cat story.yml
--- #YAML:1.0
Author: Philippe M. Chiasson
Title: How mod_perl saved my life!
Reference: http://www.cnn.com/mod_perl_saved_my_life.html
Date: 2004-08-09
Story Image: http://gozer.ectoplasm.org/me.gif
Category: Success Stories
Abstract: >
Philippe was walking down the street one day and he was almost
run over by a bus. He owes his life to the mod_perl book he had just
purchased and tells us how it happened.
Story: >
bla bla bla bla

$> cat story.yml | ysh
$VAR1 = {
'Story Image' => 'http://gozer.ectoplasm.org/me.gif',
'Story' => 'bla bla bla bla
',
'Date' => '2004-08-09',
'Reference' => 'http://www.cnn.com/mod_perl_saved_my_life.html',
'Abstract' => 'Philippe was walking down the street one day and he was almost run over by a bus. He owes his life to the mod_perl book he had just purchased
and tells us how it happened.
',
'Title' => 'How mod_perl saved my life!',
'Category' => 'Success Stories',
'Author' => 'Philippe M. Chiasson'
};

>
> - Perrin
>
>
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>

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philippe M. Chiasson m/gozer\@(apache|cpan|ectoplasm)\.org/ GPG KeyID : 88C3A5A5
http://gozer.ectoplasm.org/ F9BF E0C2 480E 7680 1AE5 3631 CB32 A107 88C3A5A5

On Mon, 2004-08-09 at 14:59, Stas Bekman wrote:
> That's the whole point. In order to make things simple, it shouldn't
> require commit access or anything list that. We could even use a
> simplified version of slashdot, so people can submit stories, people can
> comment on them, making it much more efficient and not creating any
> bottlenecks.

Yes, we could set up a blog for news. It seems a bit redundant to have
comments when we already have the mailing list(s), so I would skip
that. We also can't put things on the site without an approval process,
so it would need users and permissions. If we are able to host web apps
on perl.apache.org and someone out there feels like playing with some
simple blog software (Blosxom? Bryar?), that would be fine with me.

- Perrin


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