Mailing List Archive

On Wed 12 March 2014 01:13:58 Craig Woodward wrote:
> This particular mess started because I (and others on the Board) were not
> comfortable with Joerg "requesting" (or demanding, depending how you read
> it) funds for providing a backup service for Maemo.org. Between a few
> projects he's involved in there was concern that HiFo writing a check to
> him personally could be seen, legally, as collusion in or support for
> those projects. And I'm not even talking about nefarious things here...
> The Neo900 project, which Joerg is clearly part of, if handled improperly
> even months from now, could result in problems with Nokia/MS. If Nokia/MS
> then came after HiFo for something Neo900 related, pointing to those
> checks in a court battle, it could cause complications and legal/financial
> issues for Board members. How likely is that? Slim. But it was/is a
> potential risk, and one we didn't want or need to take.

When in 2 years they find some chld porn on Woody's PC and they find he agreed
on HiFo sending money to me for something clearly described as a facility to
store data, they for sure will come at my house and confiscate my complete IT
infra for checking if I was the one selling that porn to Woody.

OK, everything pretty obvious. I shouldn't accept any payment from HiFo, too
dangerous for me.

And then all the papers with *my* signature on them, OMG!

Show a single incident where a reasonable request from whomever to techstaff
hasn't been followed immediately! Then again explain what it is you're missing
and how you plan to fix the situation so you (or HiFo) feel more comfortable
with it.

(btw I even provided a copy of my PP money send-out to the l2 service, wasn't
good enough for you, you insisted in contacting "the chef of the company that
provides l2" so you could check what are *his* hobbies and if you can live
with those, since - as you clearly state - you can't tolerate mine.

/j
--
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
(alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some
supplementary links:)
http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml
http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html
http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml
http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German)

On Wed 12 March 2014 01:13:58 Craig Woodward wrote:
> The kicker for me was that part of this involved me asking a direct
> question, the answer to which he lied blatantly about. That was a large
> part of why I resigned from the Board. If I can't trust someone who is on
> Council and techstaff, and in charge of handling issues that I can be
> legally held responsible for, I sure as hell didn't want to stay in that
> position any longer. Who would?

Your idea of what's a true statement and what's a lie is pretty funny. You
accused me to run a server that you assumed would do illegal things. None of
both is true and I told you that, but you decided that this was a lie and you
don't believe me, which was actually when shit hit the fan.
Again, for those who refuse to read the first 475 posts: I never owned or
managed any server you ever mentioned you were concerned about.
I stated that from beginning when some of HiFo started accusing me for that
made-up nonsense, and I still state that, and you can't prove the opposite
(since you can find proof only for the truth), not even with those partial
crippled quotes of a private conversation between you and me of one year back,
where I told you about what I'm doing from my own pocket to support community
and why I can't afford a few things. I could quote the exactly same private
conversation to "prove" that it been *you* who finally financed that, but
neither you nor me are linked to any illegal activity by that conversation.
And that's exactly what I told you.


--
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
(alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some
supplementary links:)
http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml
http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html
http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml
http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German)

[2014-03-12 22:49:27] <andre__> mentioning "no closed channels" is funny when
hiding discussions and work in ##maemo-admin...
[2014-03-12 22:55:53] <DocScrutinizer05> ##maemo-admin is THE channel for ALL
techstaff to communicate *in the open* of techstaff crew
[2014-03-12 22:56:33] <DocScrutinizer05> not only techstaff but even council
and yes even HiFo
[2014-03-12 22:57:35] <DocScrutinizer05> you can't expect security threats
getting discussed and defeated in #maemo, eh?
[2014-03-12 22:58:13] <DocScrutinizer05> we even have community visitors
there, e.g. Pali
[2014-03-12 22:58:56] <DocScrutinizer05> techstaff@maemo.org is an alternative
"open" channel which you refused to deal with. A pity
[2014-03-12 22:59:47] <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, when you got criticism, I
hope you also have suggestions. Come up with them! how to do it better? I'm
listening
[2014-03-12 23:00:15] <andre__> if there was something secret to discuss,
sure.
[2014-03-12 23:00:20] <andre__> I gave up joining ##maemo-admin - too much
hassle (access restriction) to set up.
[2014-03-12 23:00:54] <andre__> I didn't "refuse to deal with". I asked to
unsubscribe me because 0 emails were interesting to me.
[2014-03-12 23:00:58] <DocScrutinizer05> ok, thanks for this helpful
contribution
[2014-03-12 23:01:09] <andre__> You're welcome. Always happy to remind of more
openness.
[2014-03-12 23:01:11] <DocScrutinizer05> afk
[2014-03-12 23:02:02] <andre__> I wonder how many "security threads" were
actually discussed. And how much stuff in private that could have easily been
in public. But that's the normal problem with closed channels...
[2014-03-12 23:02:47] <DocScrutinizer05> you should know that every single IP
of a user, every single email alias or address is stuff that mustn't get
disclosed to the public
[2014-03-12 23:03:19] <DocScrutinizer05> thus admin channels are not public
[2014-03-12 23:05:27] <DocScrutinizer05> anyway since you refer to something I
posted where I referred to how HiFo handled stuff in an unacceptable
intolerable way: I wouldn't have had any objections when HiFo had discussed
new backup server in #maemo. I would have been happy to see it getting
discussed here
[2014-03-12 23:05:35] <DocScrutinizer05> now afk for good
--
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
(alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some
supplementary links:)
http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml
http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html
http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml
http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German)

On Thu 13 March 2014 02:35:10 joerg Reisenweber wrote:
> [2014-03-12 22:49:27] <andre__> mentioning "no closed channels" is funny
> when hiding discussions and work in ##maemo-admin...
> [2014-03-12 22:55:53] <DocScrutinizer05> ##maemo-admin is THE channel for
> ALL techstaff to communicate *in the open* of techstaff crew
> [2014-03-12 22:56:33] <DocScrutinizer05> not only techstaff but even
> council and yes even HiFo
> [2014-03-12 22:57:35] <DocScrutinizer05> you can't expect security threats
> getting discussed and defeated in #maemo, eh?
> [2014-03-12 22:58:13] <DocScrutinizer05> we even have community visitors
> there, e.g. Pali
> [2014-03-12 22:58:56] <DocScrutinizer05> techstaff@maemo.org is an
> alternative "open" channel which you refused to deal with. A pity
> [2014-03-12 22:59:47] <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, when you got criticism, I
> hope you also have suggestions. Come up with them! how to do it better? I'm
> listening
> [2014-03-12 23:00:15] <andre__> if there was something secret to discuss,
> sure.
> [2014-03-12 23:00:20] <andre__> I gave up joining ##maemo-admin - too much
> hassle (access restriction) to set up.
> [2014-03-12 23:00:54] <andre__> I didn't "refuse to deal with". I asked to
> unsubscribe me because 0 emails were interesting to me.
> [2014-03-12 23:00:58] <DocScrutinizer05> ok, thanks for this helpful
> contribution
> [2014-03-12 23:01:09] <andre__> You're welcome. Always happy to remind of
> more openness.
> [2014-03-12 23:01:11] <DocScrutinizer05> afk
> [2014-03-12 23:02:02] <andre__> I wonder how many "security threads" were
> actually discussed. And how much stuff in private that could have easily
> been in public. But that's the normal problem with closed channels...
> [2014-03-12 23:02:47] <DocScrutinizer05> you should know that every single
> IP of a user, every single email alias or address is stuff that mustn't
> get disclosed to the public
> [2014-03-12 23:03:19] <DocScrutinizer05> thus admin channels are not public
> [2014-03-12 23:05:27] <DocScrutinizer05> anyway since you refer to
> something I posted where I referred to how HiFo handled stuff in an
> unacceptable intolerable way: I wouldn't have had any objections when HiFo
> had discussed new backup server in #maemo. I would have been happy to see
> it getting discussed here
> [2014-03-12 23:05:35] <DocScrutinizer05> now afk for good
[2014-03-13 02:56:55] <DocScrutinizer05> andre__: I MUSTN'T select
techstaff@maemo.org mail to send only that mails to you I think might be
interesting for you. I'm *NOT* running a one-man-show in maemo infra
maintenance. It's up to *you* to decide what's "interesting to you" and what
you rather want to ignore. Imagine me selecting which of the mails to techstaff
I'd forward to you. Are *you* ready to deal with the shitstorm this would
cause? I'm not
[2014-03-13 03:00:25] <DocScrutinizer05> there is no "one-man-show" (yet?
seems some guys want to establish that) in maemo infra maintenance. Whole
techstaff are peers, and sysops are our dignified masters. Nota bene I'm NOT one
of them
[2014-03-13 03:04:30] <DocScrutinizer05> (not really, since I know I can't
compete, and I try to keep my permissions as keyholder lower than those of the
sysops)
[2014-03-13 03:07:09] <DocScrutinizer05> if the right people want to kill my
accounts, they are pretty easily able to do so, in no time. Zilch I could do
against that. I'm providing a service to techstaff and to community. And God
knows it's a PITA to do so, particularly when fools try to play power games
[2014-03-13 03:23:36] <andre__> DocScrutinizer05, not sure what your problem
is talking about "killing your accounts" and why you tell me. What I wrote was
that techstaff@ mails aren't interesting to me.
[2014-03-13 03:31:18] <DocScrutinizer05> I'm trying to set up an orga that is
as liberal and as much independent of my own person as I can figure. No
"joerg@maemo.org" for complaints regarding any maemo issues is one of the
measures. Not holding any power that would forbid sysops nuking all my
accounts is another. Then I feel responsible to not allow anybody rogue to
access stuff in maemo.org infra, which is another task I try to fulfill. I'm
not the one responsible or in command of maemo, I just try to manage stuff
according to best practice and common sense. You came accusing me to not
operate "open" enough. I don't know how to do any better. Either you suggest
better alternatives or I can't help with your concerns
[2014-03-13 03:38:07] <DocScrutinizer05> it's *techstaff* who has control over
maemo.org, *not me*
[2014-03-13 03:44:26] <DocScrutinizer05> either you are interested in
techstaff@ and discuss alternatives there, or you don't care about how and
where techstaff communicates
[2014-03-13 03:45:07] <DocScrutinizer05> accusing me for not managing stuff
"open enough" is nonsense
--
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
(alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some
supplementary links:)
http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml
http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html
http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml
http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German)

> On March 12, 2014 at 9:35 PM joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org> wrote:
> [2014-03-12 23:02:47] you should know that every single IP
> of a user, every single email alias or address is stuff that mustn't get
> disclosed to the public

And you should know that when companies negotiate IP, TM, and legal ownership
issues, those negotiations must also be private.  Funny how when you're "in
control" and feel on the hook for something, privacy is an ok thing.  But when
you have no input or legal impact, it's suddenly evil and fraught with deceit
and plotting.

Let's boil this down shall we?  It's a simple question:

WHAT DO *YOU* WANT TO SEE HAPPEN?

Everything I'm reading from you is "we don't need HiFo".

This is my vision of events if HiFo were to simply spin down:

+ HiFo begins the legal process of closing, and informs all entities (as it
legally must).
+ Nokia, having no time/desire to start anew (even if it had a legal entity to
deal with) asks that the servers be returned.
+ HiFo gives that request to TechStaff to implement (shutdown & hardware
return).

From there, I see two possible outcomes:
1> Techstaff complies, the following chain plays out:
+ Nokia may be graceful enough to point M.O to a new home to house JUST TMO.
+ TMO must find new hardware to run on and/or a new home to live in.
+ We lose MO, and all facilities housed on the servers (CSSU, builder, garage,
wiki, etc).
+ Community suffers, we all lose a little (more if Nokia is less than gracious).

2> Techstaff refuses, the following chain plays out:
+ HiFo (as it legally must) informs Nokia of the situation.
+ Nokia is not graceful, removes DNS entries, site goes dark.
+ Nokia sends a notice to IPHH, and a request to ship it's hardware back.
+ IPHH being a for-profit company, that does not want to fight a legal battle
against with Nokia/MS, complies.
+ Admins are locked out, the servers turn off.
+ Maybe down the road someone sets up a box and "ITT2" can come back, but good
luck finding it.
+ Community fractures, we all lose hardcore.

In either case:
Eventually HiFo must find a place to send the remaining funds to, which must
(legally) be another NFP.


What alternate course do you see happening?  How does your insulting people (and
accusing others of child pornography) help that alternative course come into
being?  Or have you not thought that far ahead?

-Woody
_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

Woody,
I never said "HiFo is not needed".
And I never accused anybody of owning child pornography.
I *do* accuse you of constantly twisting my words so you can use them to get
upset about and throw some more bitching in my direction.
I'll happily ignore your further posts. Reading them is as useless as
answering them.
Just for a good night candy: probably the rest of your last post been
absolutely to the point. It however doesn't excuse HiFo going mad and act in a
way that would have earned them an immediate dismissal in any company, except
when HiFo was boss of said company in which case all techstaff had resigned
immediately.

/j
--
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
(alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some
supplementary links:)
http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml
http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html
http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml
http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German)

So rather than be constructive, and explain what path you see, you're going to
just stop replying when asked for input?

This is why we are where we are today.  A system full of complainers, but when
asked for constructive alternatives, silence.  And the second a decision is
made, more argument and whining of not being consulted and/or false claims of a
take over.

You opened this debate.  You started the complaint.  You accuse everyone, argue
about facts, deny saying any of it, make wild accusations, then offer *nothing*
when asked for what you want to see happen.  Why? I just don't get it.  What's
gained?

-Woody

PS: Fun things to do when bored: Search for HiFo in logs and e-mails.  You turn
up all kinds of fun Maemo "facts".
This one being my favorite so far:
http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-10-08.log.html#t2013-10-08T14:22:34

2013-10-08 (Tuesday) on #maemo:
      I managed last maemo council election, I managed HiFo resurrection and
re-election, and now I'm terminally fed up
      oh, I forgot: I managed election of HiFo council and unification of both
councils


Because nobody else helped with that, at all.  He managed it all.  The restart
of HiFo, elections, writing the referendum, setting up the voting booth, holding
elections, all by his lonesome.  Someone should write that in a history book
somewhere, so people don't forget.

Just found that funny... living in my fantasy world, making up fairy stories.
_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

On Thu 13 March 2014 23:47:48 Craig Woodward wrote:
> So rather than be constructive, and explain what path you see, you're going
> to just stop replying when asked for input?
>
> This is why we are where we are today. A system full of complainers, but
> when asked for constructive alternatives, silence. And the second a
> decision is made, more argument and whining of not being consulted and/or
> false claims of a take over.
>
> You opened this debate. You started the complaint. You accuse everyone,
> argue about facts, deny saying any of it, make wild accusations, then
> offer *nothing* when asked for what you want to see happen. Why? I just
> don't get it. What's gained?
>
> -Woody
>
> PS: Fun things to do when bored: Search for HiFo in logs and e-mails. You
> turn up all kinds of fun Maemo "facts".
> This one being my favorite so far:
> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-10-08.log.html#t2013-10-08T14:2
> 2:34
>
> 2013-10-08 (Tuesday) on #maemo:
> I managed last maemo council election, I managed HiFo resurrection
> and re-election, and now I'm terminally fed up
> oh, I forgot: I managed election of HiFo council and unification of
> both councils
>
>
> Because nobody else helped with that, at all. He managed it all. The
> restart of HiFo, elections, writing the referendum, setting up the voting
> booth, holding elections, all by his lonesome. Someone should write that
> in a history book somewhere, so people don't forget.
>
> Just found that funny... living in my fantasy world, making up fairy
> stories. _______________________________________________
> maemo-community mailing list
> maemo-community@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

My God, I really should put you on my ignore list.
"I ate chicken, I ate pizza"
"oh damn, that's been *you* who ate them so none left over in this world?"

Don't you see how you abuse simple english by implying meanings into every
single word I say, to the point where you accuse me for lying?
Or, for the really mental impaired of us: stating "I managed something" does
NOT imply nobody else contributed anything to that, it doesn't even imply I
did the most important or hugest part of that task (though for some of the
above elections it's actually been me who had to pester everybody to get
things done in time, since nobody else cared).

and for your other headache: I'm not obliged to come up with an answer to your
question, since your initial assertion about me saying "HiFo is not needed" is
incorrect, and I wrote that in my very last mail. So why do you ignore that
and rather continue to run your moronic crusade against me?
Meh, ignore list it is. Or wait, probably spam assassin will do just fine.
--
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
(alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some
supplementary links:)
http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml
http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html
http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml
http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German)