Mailing List Archive

Dec 17, 2002, 2:36 AM

Post #2 of 14 (1088 views)

otis_gospodnetic at yahoo

Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> Hello everyone :-)
>
> I was looking at the mail archives of Lucene, because I want to use it
> to index mails in James, when I saw the mail about Forrestizing James.
>
> Being a Forrest developer, I could not resist ;-) , so I did a first
> pass on them and am able to generate a non-validating James site with
> it. I'm now working on fixing the files to make them validate.
>
> Since we currently have three supported skins, I wondered what you would
> prefer.
>
> They are:
>
> - forrest site: http://xml.apache.org
> - avalon-tigris: http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon/
> - krysalis-site: http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/
>
> Tell me what you prefer and sometime tomorrow I'll put it up on my
> homepage for you to take a look at.

As promised, I've finished.
You can look at the site being generated in all three skins here, and
download the tarball of the sources from here:

http://cvs.apache.org/~nicolaken/lucene/

Just unpack it in the lucene project dir and it's ready to go.
To learn how to run forrest and to integrate in the ant buildfile, the
reference is as always http://xml.apache.org/forrest/.

After it's committed to the repository, I can set up our system to
generate the site every hour on the cocoondev.org machine.

Enjoy! :-)

--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Forrestize docs [ In reply to ]

Dec 17, 2002, 8:23 AM

Post #3 of 14 (1094 views)

Nicola,

I certainly like the Avalon-Tigris version the best, but I am not sure
where the idea that we want to change the UI came from. This adds no
functionality, just changes the look, right?

What I _would_ like, on the other hand, is project information that
tools like Maven provide. File, developer, etc. activity, clover
reports, etc.

Otis

--- Nicola Ken Barozzi <nicolaken@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone :-)
> >
> > I was looking at the mail archives of Lucene, because I want to use
> it
> > to index mails in James, when I saw the mail about Forrestizing
> James.
> >
> > Being a Forrest developer, I could not resist ;-) , so I did a
> first
> > pass on them and am able to generate a non-validating James site
> with
> > it. I'm now working on fixing the files to make them validate.
> >
> > Since we currently have three supported skins, I wondered what you
> would
> > prefer.
> >
> > They are:
> >
> > - forrest site: http://xml.apache.org
> > - avalon-tigris: http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon/
> > - krysalis-site: http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/
> >
> > Tell me what you prefer and sometime tomorrow I'll put it up on my
> > homepage for you to take a look at.
>
> As promised, I've finished.
> You can look at the site being generated in all three skins here, and
>
> download the tarball of the sources from here:
>
> http://cvs.apache.org/~nicolaken/lucene/
>
> Just unpack it in the lucene project dir and it's ready to go.
> To learn how to run forrest and to integrate in the ant buildfile,
> the
> reference is as always http://xml.apache.org/forrest/.
>
> After it's committed to the repository, I can set up our system to
> generate the site every hour on the cocoondev.org machine.
>
> Enjoy! :-)
>
> --
> Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
> - verba volant, scripta manent -
> (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:lucene-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:lucene-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org>
>

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Re: Forrestize docs [ In reply to ]

Dec 17, 2002, 12:19 PM

Post #4 of 14 (1087 views)

on 2002/12/16 3:34 PM, "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <nicolaken@apache.org> wrote:

> - avalon-tigris: http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon/

I don't like how you (or whomever did the stylesheet) got rid of the rounded
top left corner edge on the headings. There is a UI design purpose for that
edge being there.

-jon

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Re: Forrestize docs [ In reply to ]

Dec 17, 2002, 12:27 PM

Post #5 of 14 (1089 views)

on 2002/12/17 7:23 AM, "Otis Gospodnetic" <otis_gospodnetic@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> What I _would_ like, on the other hand, is project information that
> tools like Maven provide. File, developer, etc. activity, clover
> reports, etc.
>
> Otis

+1

If the website is going to be built, it should be built with Maven, not
Forrest. IMHO, all Nicola is doing is trying to push his stuff in even
though it doesn't do things that are useful, like what Maven does. I'm also
pissed off that someone changed the UI. There is specific reasons why that
UI was developed and what is in it.

-jon

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Re: Forrestize docs [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 2002, 12:55 AM

Post #6 of 14 (1091 views)

Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> on 2002/12/17 7:23 AM, "Otis Gospodnetic" <otis_gospodnetic@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>What I _would_ like, on the other hand, is project information that
>>tools like Maven provide. File, developer, etc. activity, clover
>>reports, etc.
>>
>>Otis
>
> +1
>
> If the website is going to be built, it should be built with Maven, not
> Forrest. IMHO, all Nicola is doing is trying to push his stuff

Look who's talking, the one that told all jakarta developers to "quick,
convert all to Maven". I just followed a mail posted here, I did not
take initiatives myself.

> in even
> though it doesn't do things that are useful, like what Maven does.

I'm copying this to the Forrest list so they know what you think of our
project.

> I'm also
> pissed off that someone changed the UI. There is specific reasons why that
> UI was developed and what is in it.

I'm even more pissed off that someone made a project inside a project
inside a project and keeps shoving it up people's nose.

The UI was changed because we didn't like it. You don't like it? Send in
a patch with your skin. It's opensource, man.

--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Forrestize docs [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 2002, 1:00 AM

Post #7 of 14 (1090 views)

Otis Gospodnetic wrote:
> Nicola,
>
> I certainly like the Avalon-Tigris version the best, but I am not sure
> where the idea that we want to change the UI came from. This adds no
> functionality, just changes the look, right?

Forrest is a much more advanced documentation generation system, and,
for example, does doc validation and dead link reporting.
We also have an automatic system that updates the site from CVS every
hour to a test site.

> What I _would_ like, on the other hand, is project information that
> tools like Maven provide. File, developer, etc. activity, clover
> reports, etc.

This is done by the build system, Forrest is the doc system.

--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
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(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Forrestize docs [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 2002, 10:42 AM

Post #8 of 14 (1090 views)

on 2002/12/17 11:55 PM, "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <nicolaken@apache.org> wrote:

> Look who's talking, the one that told all jakarta developers to "quick,
> convert all to Maven". I just followed a mail posted here, I did not
> take initiatives myself.

That is because I still think that Maven is better than Forrest.

Forrest focused on replacing Anakia and Maven focused on doing what projects
actually need. Maybe I can't see the Forrest through the trees. =)

> I'm even more pissed off that someone made a project inside a project
> inside a project and keeps shoving it up people's nose.

Wake up Nicola. I am not even a developer on Maven.

http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/team-list.html

> I'm copying this to the Forrest list so they know what you think of our
> project.

Thanks for taking half of the conversation out of context and then bringing
another group into this without even asking first. That is like having a
conversation on the street and then pulling the first person who walks by
and asking their opinion. How rude.

> The UI was changed because we didn't like it. You don't like it? Send in
> a patch with your skin. It's opensource, man.

Of course it is, man.

http://style.tigris.org

The fact of the matter is that UI was professionally developed and you went
and screwed it up because you 'didn't like it'. The left edges are on the
headings for a purpose which is to enclose blocks of data. You went and
removed that and now the enclosure isn't there. Go look at Scarab and then
compare that with what you have.

-jon

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Re: Forrestize docs [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 2002, 10:51 AM

Post #9 of 14 (1091 views)

on 2002/12/18 12:00 AM, "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <nicolaken@apache.org> wrote:

> Forrest is a much more advanced documentation generation system, and,
> for example, does doc validation and dead link reporting.
> We also have an automatic system that updates the site from CVS every
> hour to a test site.

Ohh...I'm creaming in my pants with these *amazing* features.

Big deal. It is easy to do doc/link validation and a better way to do it is
to use Glossaries which I doubt that Forrest does. If you don't understand
what a glossary is, take a look at how Radio Userland manages links.

Looking over the Forrest website, I can't believe you guys brought back
<link href="">. I HATE THAT. How many times have you written <a href=""> and
then had to re-type it as <link>? That was one of the primary reasons why I
wrote Anakia in the first place. Why should anyone have to learn some other
subset of HTML to get HTML?

Grrr...

> This is done by the build system, Forrest is the doc system.

Maven is both and, IMHO, that is what projects really need. It puts
everything in one place and makes things easy.

-jon

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Re: Forrestize docs [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 2002, 10:55 AM

Post #10 of 14 (1087 views)

curtis.seyfried at verizon

I found a mail that encouraged to Forrestize docs and did it.
I'm not in this project, though I am a user, and don't want to continue
this irritating discussion any longer.

It's sad how something that I did by trying to help became something I
should be ashamed of.

Sorry for the noise.

--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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RE: Forrestize docs [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 2002, 11:13 AM

Post #11 of 14 (1094 views)

otis_gospodnetic at yahoo

Hi,
I've been lurking and listening to these discussions. I'm just trying to
learn how to use lucene.

BUT, as to Forrest .vs. Maven .vs. whatever, here's a suggestion.

Those who want to Forrestize do so.

Those who want to Mavenize do so.

Then all of you compare your results and actually SEE what is better, or
which parts of what might be incorporated into whatever to make the best
synergistic solution.

BUT, just talking about how Treoretically F is better than M is better than
W, won't get you anywhere. You waste time, bandwidth and other people's
patience who are here to actually learn practical ways to use and devlop
applications around Lucene.

Infighting only discourages newbies. Besides, you can always discuss F .v.s
M OUTSIDE the list with eachother to your hearts content.

Just my 2 cents, no harm intended.

Curtis Seyfried

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Re: Forrestize docs [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 2002, 11:16 AM

Post #12 of 14 (1093 views)

Thank you, and thank you :)
It looks like both tools would be useful, but Lucene is probably not a
project that will adopt either in the near future, as most developers
seem to be busy. I've had both tools on my 'to learn' list, but as
usual.......you're familiar with the story, probably.

Otis

--- Nicola Ken Barozzi <nicolaken@apache.org> wrote:
>
> I found a mail that encouraged to Forrestize docs and did it.
> I'm not in this project, though I am a user, and don't want to
> continue
> this irritating discussion any longer.
>
> It's sad how something that I did by trying to help became something
> I
> should be ashamed of.
>
> Sorry for the noise.
>
> --
> Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
> - verba volant, scripta manent -
> (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:lucene-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:lucene-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org>
>

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Re: Forrestize docs [ In reply to ]

acoliver at apache

Dec 18, 2002, 12:24 PM

Post #13 of 14 (1085 views)

ckirkendall at hobsons-us

I will volunteer to commit both the forrest changes and maven changes
provided the patches are "well formed" and do not interfere with
Lucene's GUMP build (or regular build) working properly. Please
endevour to make the patches compatible or they'll be rejected. The
first one to submit the patches obviously has less work to do.

My interest is in seeing the getting started guide in PDF format.

-Andy

Otis Gospodnetic wrote:

>Thank you, and thank you :)
>It looks like both tools would be useful, but Lucene is probably not a
>project that will adopt either in the near future, as most developers
>seem to be busy. I've had both tools on my 'to learn' list, but as
>usual.......you're familiar with the story, probably.
>
>Otis
>
>
>--- Nicola Ken Barozzi <nicolaken@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
>>I found a mail that encouraged to Forrestize docs and did it.
>>I'm not in this project, though I am a user, and don't want to
>>continue
>>this irritating discussion any longer.
>>
>>It's sad how something that I did by trying to help became something
>>I
>>should be ashamed of.
>>
>>Sorry for the noise.
>>
>>--
>>Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
>> - verba volant, scripta manent -
>> (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>><mailto:lucene-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
>>For additional commands, e-mail:
>><mailto:lucene-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
>

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Re: Forrestize docs [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 2002, 5:55 AM

Post #14 of 14 (1086 views)