Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote in
<20230612-rename-satirical-b8339e@meerkat>:
|On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 09:54:45PM +0200, Steffen Nurpmeso wrote:
|>|No it isn't. Changing the subject and adding the footer is a damaging
|>|anti-pattern from mid-nineties. If the end-user wants to filter mail, \
|>|they can
|>|do it based on the List-Id header or any other criteria. Lists that \
|>|still do
|>|this in 2023 need to be updated to no longer do this.
|>
|> That is your own biased thing to which i am totally opposed to.
|
|It's not "my own biased thing" -- I speak from experience of managing \
|hundreds
|of Linux mailing lists.
Well then, hi ho silver.
IETF has a lot of lists, too.
|> The traditional email way uses a single INBOX and dispatches
|> non-deleted things from there (also automatically). I am happy
|> that many lists i am on continue to use that subject tagging, or
|> reintroduced it, because i get a human-compatible overview with
|> a single glance (already thread-sorted) when i look into my INBOX.
|> This includes IETF lists, tuhs and coff, 9fans, oss-sec and many
|> more.
|
|The "traditional email way" is gone. Anyone who insists on doing things the
|way it used to be done in the 90s is doing everyone a disservice because
|messages sent by their users will increasingly end up in spam or be \
|rejected
|outright. You're contributing to the notion that email is too unreliable \
|to be
|used for anything serious, especially via mailing lists.
Nah, total rubbish. As if i would count, for one.
Second, you give an interesting picture of the mental context of
the (tens of) thousands of Linux programmers you live in.
Third, S/MIME and PGP are used seriously, it is the usual maybe
western-world specific paranoia bullshit propaganda which hammers
and bastardizingly bends somewhere, also here. Hundreds or
thousands of years you put envelope in envelope and then seal that
further. Just put pseudo headers in the outermost and make
software use the real ones from the inside instead; that is solved
for long, except for the certificate infrastructure which
unfortunately has to be a commercial mess instead of being open
for everyone easily. So that not. You need some tags in the
outermost header, and DKIM is a good thing, actually.
Having said that, the software i maintain myself cannot (until
the MIME machinery is replaced), but i have few spare time (i
could hack it in somewhat fast, but it would be a terrible hack
on a terrible infrastructure) -- the question is solely why the
big ones and their beautiful graphical programs fail to do it
properly. Why so.
Fourth; most spam i see comes from GMail or Outlook.
And then they killed mailing-lists ... not. That is wonderful.
But i grant a real, proper mailing-list must sooner or later
switch to use DKIM and ARC (and/or postsrsd), and as of today
likely (dependent on its audience) needs to rewrite From: to that
'Xy via Z' in order to make it happen. That is basically it, and
you can get away with a subject tag and a footer.
DMARC is a foul name.
Fifth email is more fifty than thirty, and i think for a reason.
Shove the rest (up your ass)!
So whereas "die Antwort heißt immer Verzicht" / "the answer is
always renunciation", that is surely not true for reliabiliy and
email. That is a super robust forgiving thing, given that even
DMARC and that mess did not break it down.
--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)
|~~
|..and in spring, hear David Leonard sing..
|
|The black bear, The black bear,
|blithely holds his own holds himself at leisure
|beating it, up and down tossing over his ups and downs with pleasure
|~~
|Farewell, dear collar bear
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