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any procmail/spamassassin gurus?
i'm attempting to use fetchyahoo http://fetchyahoo.twizzler.org
to download my yahoo mail, pipe it thru procmail and spamassassin then
dump it into my mail dir in .maildir format

here's what they say about using procmail:

* if you want procmail to send mail to your local MTA use the
following in your .procmailrc - ":0<return>! yourlocaluser@localhost"

the program downloads my email just fine but it never gets processed or
shows up anywhere that i can see.
here's my /etc/procmailrc file:

root@teh etc # cat /etc/procmailrc
DROPPRIVS=yes
:0fw
| /usr/bin/spamassassin
DEFAULT=$HOME/.maildir/
SHELL=/bin/sh

root@teh etc #

--
http://patrickcampbell.us


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Re: any procmail/spamassassin gurus? [ In reply to ]
try starting with

:0:
$HOME/.Maildir/

To see if you are getting procmail working first

Kevin.



On Thursday 21 October 2004 17:53, J. Patrick Campbell wrote:
i'm attempting to use fetchyahoo http://fetchyahoo.twizzler.org
to download my yahoo mail, pipe it thru procmail and spamassassin then
dump it into my mail dir in .maildir format

here's what they say about using procmail:

* if you want procmail to send mail to your local MTA use the
following in your .procmailrc - ":0<return>! yourlocaluser@localhost"

the program downloads my email just fine but it never gets processed or
shows up anywhere that i can see.
here's my /etc/procmailrc file:

root@teh etc # cat /etc/procmailrc
DROPPRIVS=yes

:0fw
:
| /usr/bin/spamassassin

DEFAULT=$HOME/.maildir/
SHELL=/bin/sh

root@teh etc #


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Re: any procmail/spamassassin gurus? [ In reply to ]
On Thursday 21 October 2004 11:53 am, J. Patrick Campbell wrote:
>
> root@teh etc # cat /etc/procmailrc
> DROPPRIVS=yes
>
> :0fw
> :
> | /usr/bin/spamassassin
>
> DEFAULT=$HOME/.maildir/
> SHELL=/bin/sh

Um. I am not positive, but that doesnt look right to me.

:0fw
* < 256000
| /usr/bin/spamc -f

Is what I have..

Jeff
Re: any procmail/spamassassin gurus? [ In reply to ]
> :0fw
> * < 256000
> | /usr/bin/spamc -f
>

That will only work if you're also running the spamd daemon process.
For a standard single user system, calling /usr/bin/spamassassin is
easier than setting up spamd/spamc.

Mike

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Re: any procmail/spamassassin gurus? [ In reply to ]
ok i've changed procmail config to
:0:
$HOME/.maildir/
that's my old default maildir before i started using squirrelmail.
do i need to restart any services for this to take effect?
still not getting emails...

Thanks,

~P

On Thu, October 21, 2004 1:10 pm, Kevin Philp said:
> try starting with
>
> :0:
> $HOME/.Maildir/
>
> To see if you are getting procmail working first
>
> Kevin.
>
>
>
> On Thursday 21 October 2004 17:53, J. Patrick Campbell wrote:
> i'm attempting to use fetchyahoo http://fetchyahoo.twizzler.org
> to download my yahoo mail, pipe it thru procmail and spamassassin then
> dump it into my mail dir in .maildir format
>
> here's what they say about using procmail:
>
> * if you want procmail to send mail to your local MTA use the
> following in your .procmailrc - ":0<return>! yourlocaluser@localhost"
>
> the program downloads my email just fine but it never gets processed or
> shows up anywhere that i can see.
> here's my /etc/procmailrc file:
>
> root@teh etc # cat /etc/procmailrc
> DROPPRIVS=yes
>
> :0fw
> :
> | /usr/bin/spamassassin
>
> DEFAULT=$HOME/.maildir/
> SHELL=/bin/sh
>
> root@teh etc #
>
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


--
http://patrickcampbell.us


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Re: any procmail/spamassassin gurus? [ In reply to ]
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:02:13 -0400 (EDT), J. Patrick Campbell
<patrick@lowmips.com> wrote:
> ok i've changed procmail config to
> :0:
> $HOME/.maildir/
> that's my old default maildir before i started using squirrelmail.
> do i need to restart any services for this to take effect?
> still not getting emails...
>
> Thanks,
>
> ~P

procmailrc changes take effect immediately. Has procmail ever worked
for you, or is this a new install?

Mike

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Re: any procmail/spamassassin gurus? [ In reply to ]
it worked for me with fetchmail/spamassassin before i switched to
squirrelmail.

~P

On Thu, October 21, 2004 2:13 pm, Mike said:
> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:02:13 -0400 (EDT), J. Patrick Campbell
> <patrick@lowmips.com> wrote:
>> ok i've changed procmail config to
>> :0:
>> $HOME/.maildir/
>> that's my old default maildir before i started using squirrelmail.
>> do i need to restart any services for this to take effect?
>> still not getting emails...
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> ~P
>
> procmailrc changes take effect immediately. Has procmail ever worked
> for you, or is this a new install?
>
> Mike
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


--
http://patrickcampbell.us


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Re: any procmail/spamassassin gurus? [ In reply to ]
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:07:35 -0400 (EDT), J. Patrick Campbell
<patrick@lowmips.com> wrote:
> it worked for me with fetchmail/spamassassin before i switched to
> squirrelmail.
>
>
>
> ~P
>

I'm a little confused here. In the first post, you said you were using
fetchyahoo to grab your mail, and dump it through procmail for local
reading. Are you then using Squirrelmail as a local webmail client?
Fetchyahoo needs a .fetchyahoorc file telling it to hand off to
procmail, which would then dump it to Spamassassin, which would then
hand it back to procmail, which should finally deposit it in
~/maildir/. If the mail isn't making it that far, verify that you have
a .fetchyahoorc file that is configured to hand email off to procmail.

Something like this should do the trick for the .fetchyahoorc:
spool-mode = pipe
spool = /usr/bin/procmail

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Re: any procmail/spamassassin gurus? [ In reply to ]
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:07:35 -0400 (EDT)
"J. Patrick Campbell" <patrick@lowmips.com> wrote:

> it worked for me with fetchmail/spamassassin before i switched to
> squirrelmail.

squirrelmail has nothing to do with procmail.



>
> ~P
>
> On Thu, October 21, 2004 2:13 pm, Mike said:
> > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:02:13 -0400 (EDT), J. Patrick Campbell
> > <patrick@lowmips.com> wrote:
> >> ok i've changed procmail config to
> >> :0:
> >> $HOME/.maildir/
> >> that's my old default maildir before i started using squirrelmail.
> >> do i need to restart any services for this to take effect?
> >> still not getting emails...
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> ~P
> >
> > procmailrc changes take effect immediately. Has procmail ever worked
> > for you, or is this a new install?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > --
> > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> http://patrickcampbell.us
>
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

--
Nick Rout <nick@rout.co.nz>


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Re: any procmail/spamassassin gurus? [ In reply to ]
On Thu, October 21, 2004 11:32 pm, Mike said:
> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:18:39 -0400 (EDT), J. Patrick Campbell
> <patrick@lowmips.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, October 21, 2004 6:57 pm, Mike said:
>> > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:07:35 -0400 (EDT), J. Patrick Campbell
>> > <patrick@lowmips.com> wrote:
>> >> it worked for me with fetchmail/spamassassin before i switched to
>> >> squirrelmail.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ~P
>> >>
>> >
>> > I'm a little confused here. In the first post, you said you were using
>> > fetchyahoo to grab your mail, and dump it through procmail for local
>> > reading. Are you then using Squirrelmail as a local webmail client?
>>
>> no. forget squirrelmail. i was only trying to establish that i'd had
>> procmail working BEFORE i moved my email to another system.
>>
>> > Fetchyahoo needs a .fetchyahoorc file telling it to hand off to
>> > procmail, which would then dump it to Spamassassin, which would then
>> > hand it back to procmail, which should finally deposit it in
>> > ~/maildir/. If the mail isn't making it that far, verify that you have
>> > a .fetchyahoorc file that is configured to hand email off to procmail.
>>
>> i have all that. mail just....dissapears..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Something like this should do the trick for the .fetchyahoorc:
>> > spool-mode = pipe
>> > spool = /usr/bin/procmail
>> >
>> > --
>> > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> http://patrickcampbell.us
>>
>>
>
> Try adding the following two lines to your procmailrc
> VERBOSE=YES
> LOGFILE=/var/log/procmail.log
>
> This will let us know if the email is even making it to procmail.
>
>

here's my procmail config

:0:
$HOME/.maildir/
VERBOSE=YES
LOGFILE=/var/log/procmail.log

____________________________________-

and relevant lines from .fetchyahoorc

###### mail spool, mbox file and procmail configs ######

# set use-spool to 0 to disable outputting to a file/filter
use-spool = 1
# if spoolName ends with a / we output in maildir format to that directory
spool = /usr/bin/procmail

# spool-mode must be either append, pipe or overwrite
# use pipe for procmail or other filter and append for a normal spool
# ignored if spoolName is a maildir directory
spool-mode = pipe
_____________________________________________________________

apparently it's not making it to procmail because the log file is not
getting created. what would stop procmail?

thanks,

~P


--
http://patrickcampbell.us


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: any procmail/spamassassin gurus? [ In reply to ]
On Sat, October 23, 2004 3:13 pm, J. Patrick Campbell said:
>
> On Thu, October 21, 2004 11:32 pm, Mike said:
>> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:18:39 -0400 (EDT), J. Patrick Campbell
>> <patrick@lowmips.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, October 21, 2004 6:57 pm, Mike said:
>>> > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:07:35 -0400 (EDT), J. Patrick Campbell
>>> > <patrick@lowmips.com> wrote:
>>> >> it worked for me with fetchmail/spamassassin before i switched to
>>> >> squirrelmail.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ~P
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > I'm a little confused here. In the first post, you said you were
>>> using
>>> > fetchyahoo to grab your mail, and dump it through procmail for local
>>> > reading. Are you then using Squirrelmail as a local webmail client?
>>>
>>> no. forget squirrelmail. i was only trying to establish that i'd had
>>> procmail working BEFORE i moved my email to another system.
>>>
>>> > Fetchyahoo needs a .fetchyahoorc file telling it to hand off to
>>> > procmail, which would then dump it to Spamassassin, which would then
>>> > hand it back to procmail, which should finally deposit it in
>>> > ~/maildir/. If the mail isn't making it that far, verify that you
>>> have
>>> > a .fetchyahoorc file that is configured to hand email off to
>>> procmail.
>>>
>>> i have all that. mail just....dissapears..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Something like this should do the trick for the .fetchyahoorc:
>>> > spool-mode = pipe
>>> > spool = /usr/bin/procmail
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://patrickcampbell.us
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Try adding the following two lines to your procmailrc
>> VERBOSE=YES
>> LOGFILE=/var/log/procmail.log
>>
>> This will let us know if the email is even making it to procmail.
>>
>>
>
> here's my procmail config
>
> :0:
> $HOME/.maildir/
> VERBOSE=YES
> LOGFILE=/var/log/procmail.log
>
> ____________________________________-
>
> and relevant lines from .fetchyahoorc
>
> ###### mail spool, mbox file and procmail configs ######
>
> # set use-spool to 0 to disable outputting to a file/filter
> use-spool = 1
> # if spoolName ends with a / we output in maildir format to that directory
> spool = /usr/bin/procmail
>
> # spool-mode must be either append, pipe or overwrite
> # use pipe for procmail or other filter and append for a normal spool
> # ignored if spoolName is a maildir directory
> spool-mode = pipe
> _____________________________________________________________
>
> apparently it's not making it to procmail because the log file is not
> getting created. what would stop procmail?
>
i'm now getting email in my maildir style maildir but it's skipping
procmail it seems. no log being created.

>
>


--
http://patrickcampbell.us


--
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Re: any procmail/spamassassin gurus? [ In reply to ]
Le 10/23/04 "J. Patrick Campbell" <patrick@lowmips.com> a écrit notamment:

> On Sat, October 23, 2004 3:13 pm, J. Patrick Campbell said:
>>
>> On Thu, October 21, 2004 11:32 pm, Mike said:
>
[...]


>> here's my procmail config
>>
>> :0:
>> $HOME/.maildir/
>> VERBOSE=YES
>> LOGFILE=/var/log/procmail.log
>>
>> ____________________________________-
>>
>> and relevant lines from .fetchyahoorc
>>
>> ###### mail spool, mbox file and procmail configs ######
>>
>> # set use-spool to 0 to disable outputting to a file/filter
>> use-spool = 1
>> # if spoolName ends with a / we output in maildir format to that directory
>> spool = /usr/bin/procmail
>>
>> # spool-mode must be either append, pipe or overwrite
>> # use pipe for procmail or other filter and append for a normal spool
>> # ignored if spoolName is a maildir directory
>> spool-mode = pipe
>> _____________________________________________________________
>>
>> apparently it's not making it to procmail because the log file is not
>> getting created. what would stop procmail?
>>
> i'm now getting email in my maildir style maildir but it's skipping
> procmail it seems. no log being created.
>
If this is your /home/.procmailrc content no wonder it does not create a
log in /var/log, because this procmail is *your* app and I don't think it
has a right to write in /var/log; try "LOGFILE=$MAILDIR/from" or
something of this kind
hth..
--
Jean Magnan de Bornier
3 Cours Victor Hugo, 13980 Alleins France
Tel: 04 90 59 33 94 Port: 06 09 17 35 87
mèl: jm.bornier*at*free.fr

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Re: any procmail/spamassassin gurus? [ In reply to ]
On Sat, October 23, 2004 4:09 pm, Jean Magnan de Bornier said:

>
>>> here's my procmail config
>>>
>>> :0:
>>> $HOME/.maildir/
>>> VERBOSE=YES
>>> LOGFILE=/var/log/procmail.log
>>>
>>> ____________________________________-
>>>
>>> and relevant lines from .fetchyahoorc
>>>
>>> ###### mail spool, mbox file and procmail configs ######
>>>
>>> # set use-spool to 0 to disable outputting to a file/filter
>>> use-spool = 1
>>> # if spoolName ends with a / we output in maildir format to that
>>> directory
>>> spool = /usr/bin/procmail
>>>
>>> # spool-mode must be either append, pipe or overwrite
>>> # use pipe for procmail or other filter and append for a normal spool
>>> # ignored if spoolName is a maildir directory
>>> spool-mode = pipe
>>> _____________________________________________________________
>>>
>>> apparently it's not making it to procmail because the log file is not
>>> getting created. what would stop procmail?
>>>
>> i'm now getting email in my maildir style maildir but it's skipping
>> procmail it seems. no log being created.
>>
> If this is your /home/.procmailrc content no wonder it does not create a
> log in /var/log, because this procmail is *your* app and I don't think it
> has a right to write in /var/log; try "LOGFILE=$MAILDIR/from" or
> something of this kind
> hth..
> --
> Jean Magnan de Bornier

the only procmail config file i have is /etc/procmailrc

thanks,

~P


--
http://patrickcampbell.us


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: any procmail/spamassassin gurus? [ In reply to ]
On Sat, October 23, 2004 4:09 pm, Jean Magnan de Bornier said:
> Le 10/23/04 "J. Patrick Campbell" <patrick@lowmips.com> a écrit notamment:
>
>> On Sat, October 23, 2004 3:13 pm, J. Patrick Campbell said:
>>>
>>> On Thu, October 21, 2004 11:32 pm, Mike said:
>>
> [...]
>
>
>>> here's my procmail config
>>>
>>> :0:
>>> $HOME/.maildir/
>>> VERBOSE=YES
>>> LOGFILE=/var/log/procmail.log
>>>
>>> ____________________________________-
>>>
>>> and relevant lines from .fetchyahoorc
>>>
>>> ###### mail spool, mbox file and procmail configs ######
>>>
>>> # set use-spool to 0 to disable outputting to a file/filter
>>> use-spool = 1
>>> # if spoolName ends with a / we output in maildir format to that
>>> directory
>>> spool = /usr/bin/procmail
>>>
>>> # spool-mode must be either append, pipe or overwrite
>>> # use pipe for procmail or other filter and append for a normal spool
>>> # ignored if spoolName is a maildir directory
>>> spool-mode = pipe
>>> _____________________________________________________________
>>>
>>> apparently it's not making it to procmail because the log file is not
>>> getting created. what would stop procmail?
>>>
>> i'm now getting email in my maildir style maildir but it's skipping
>> procmail it seems. no log being created.
>>
> If this is your /home/.procmailrc content no wonder it does not create a
> log in /var/log, because this procmail is *your* app and I don't think it
> has a right to write in /var/log; try "LOGFILE=$MAILDIR/from" or
> something of this kind
> hth..
> --
> Jean Magnan de Bornier

i changed the log to output to my home dir, it's not writing anything there.
any ideas?



--
http://patrickcampbell.us


--
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Re: any procmail/spamassassin gurus? [ In reply to ]
Le 10/25/04 "J. Patrick Campbell" <patrick@lowmips.com> a écrit notamment:

> On Sat, October 23, 2004 4:09 pm, Jean Magnan de Bornier said:
>> Le 10/23/04 "J. Patrick Campbell" <patrick@lowmips.com> a écrit notamment:
>>
>>> On Sat, October 23, 2004 3:13 pm, J. Patrick Campbell said:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, October 21, 2004 11:32 pm, Mike said:
>>>
>> [...]
>>
>>
>>>> here's my procmail config
>>>>
>>>> :0:
>>>> $HOME/.maildir/
>>>> VERBOSE=YES

[...]


>>>>
>>>> apparently it's not making it to procmail because the log file is not
>>>> getting created. what would stop procmail?
>>>>
>>> i'm now getting email in my maildir style maildir but it's skipping
>>> procmail it seems. no log being created.
>>>
>> If this is your /home/.procmailrc content no wonder it does not create a
>> log in /var/log, because this procmail is *your* app and I don't think it
>> has a right to write in /var/log; try "LOGFILE=$MAILDIR/from" or
>> something of this kind
>> hth..
>> --
>> Jean Magnan de Bornier
>
> i changed the log to output to my home dir, it's not writing anything there.
> any ideas?
>
As a first step you could create a minimal .procmailrc file in your home
dir to see if procmail can log at all: adapt the following to your needs:

PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin
MAILDIR=/home/jean/.maildir #you'd better make sure it exists
VERBOSE
LOGFILE=$MAILDIR/from #recommended

then if .maildir/from is not created it means (I think) procmail is not
working properly
cheers,
--
Jean Magnan de Bornier
3 Cours Victor Hugo, 13980 Alleins France
Tel: 04 90 59 33 94 Port: 06 09 17 35 87
mèl: jm.bornier*at*free.fr

--
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Re: any procmail/spamassassin gurus? [ In reply to ]
On Mon, October 25, 2004 1:13 am, Jean Magnan de Bornier said:
> Le 10/25/04 "J. Patrick Campbell" <patrick@lowmips.com> a écrit notamment:
>
>> On Sat, October 23, 2004 4:09 pm, Jean Magnan de Bornier said:
>>> Le 10/23/04 "J. Patrick Campbell" <patrick@lowmips.com> a écrit
>>> notamment:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, October 23, 2004 3:13 pm, J. Patrick Campbell said:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, October 21, 2004 11:32 pm, Mike said:
>>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>
>>>>> here's my procmail config
>>>>>
>>>>> :0:
>>>>> $HOME/.maildir/
>>>>> VERBOSE=YES
>
> [...]
>
>
>>>>>
>>>>> apparently it's not making it to procmail because the log file is not
>>>>> getting created. what would stop procmail?
>>>>>
>>>> i'm now getting email in my maildir style maildir but it's skipping
>>>> procmail it seems. no log being created.
>>>>
>>> If this is your /home/.procmailrc content no wonder it does not create
>>> a
>>> log in /var/log, because this procmail is *your* app and I don't think
>>> it
>>> has a right to write in /var/log; try "LOGFILE=$MAILDIR/from" or
>>> something of this kind
>>> hth..
>>> --
>>> Jean Magnan de Bornier
>>
>> i changed the log to output to my home dir, it's not writing anything
>> there.
>> any ideas?
>>
> As a first step you could create a minimal .procmailrc file in your home
> dir to see if procmail can log at all: adapt the following to your needs:
>
> PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin
> MAILDIR=/home/jean/.maildir #you'd better make sure it exists
> VERBOSE
> LOGFILE=$MAILDIR/from #recommended
>
> then if .maildir/from is not created it means (I think) procmail is not
> working properly
> cheers,

ok i put that one in place in my home dir. my maildir exists but
the from dir is not being created. any ideas from this point?

thanks,

~P

--
http://patrickcampbell.us


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: any procmail/spamassassin gurus? [ In reply to ]
Le 10/25/04 "J. Patrick Campbell" <patrick@lowmips.com> a écrit notamment:

> On Mon, October 25, 2004 1:13 am, Jean Magnan de Bornier said:
>> Le 10/25/04 "J. Patrick Campbell" <patrick@lowmips.com> a écrit notamment:
>>
>>> On Sat, October 23, 2004 4:09 pm, Jean Magnan de Bornier said:
>>>> Le 10/23/04 "J. Patrick Campbell" <patrick@lowmips.com> a écrit
>>>> notamment:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, October 23, 2004 3:13 pm, J. Patrick Campbell said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, October 21, 2004 11:32 pm, Mike said:
>>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> here's my procmail config
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :0:
>>>>>> $HOME/.maildir/
>>>>>> VERBOSE=YES
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> apparently it's not making it to procmail because the log file is not
>>>>>> getting created. what would stop procmail?
>>>>>>
>>>>> i'm now getting email in my maildir style maildir but it's skipping
>>>>> procmail it seems. no log being created.
>>>>>
>>>> If this is your /home/.procmailrc content no wonder it does not create
>>>> a
>>>> log in /var/log, because this procmail is *your* app and I don't think
>>>> it
>>>> has a right to write in /var/log; try "LOGFILE=$MAILDIR/from" or
>>>> something of this kind
>>>> hth..
>>>> --
>>>> Jean Magnan de Bornier
>>>
>>> i changed the log to output to my home dir, it's not writing anything
>>> there.
>>> any ideas?
>>>
>> As a first step you could create a minimal .procmailrc file in your home
>> dir to see if procmail can log at all: adapt the following to your needs:
>>
>> PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin
>> MAILDIR=/home/jean/.maildir #you'd better make sure it exists
>> VERBOSE
>> LOGFILE=$MAILDIR/from #recommended
>>
>> then if .maildir/from is not created it means (I think) procmail is not
>> working properly
>> cheers,
>
> ok i put that one in place in my home dir. my maildir exists but
> the from dir is not being created. any ideas from this point?

[...]

Of course the from file will supposedly be created only the first time you
receive some mail which is dealed with by procmail; if that doesn't happen
I think fetchyahoo doesn't transmit mail to procmail; on this problem I
have no idea as your .fetchyahoorc seems ok
cheers
--
Jean Magnan de Bornier
3 Cours Victor Hugo, 13980 Alleins France
Tel: 04 90 59 33 94 Port: 06 09 17 35 87
mèl: jm.bornier*at*free.fr

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