Mailing List Archive

On September 27, 2004 08:49 am, Adrian CAPDEFIER wrote:
> Hello.
> I recently found this [1] on the net. I don't know if this is new or not
> so let's not have a flame bonanza about it and just ignore the message
> if it's not news to you.

not that i have much faith in an online petition, but i'm so glad to hear so
many people feel the same way. my videocard is nearly 5years old now, cost
$500 when i bought it (all-in-wonder radeon) and the tv view/capture
functions are all being handled by the guys @gatos. i'm sure they're quite
capable, but with instructions like "fiddle with source" i'm afraid ati might
be expecting too much from these guys... if they expect anything at all.

thanks for the link. here's hoping something actually comes of it.

--
there are more worlds than the one you can hold in your hand
- unknown

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

On Mon, 2004-09-27 at 15:49 +0300, Adrian CAPDEFIER wrote:
> Hello.
> I recently found this [1] on the net. I don't know if this is new or not
> so let's not have a flame bonanza about it and just ignore the message
> if it's not news to you.

I don't mean to urinate on a parade, but ATI seems to be one of those
companies that take votes with money, or lack of. I got rid of mine
after giving up, and got an Nvidia.

While you may want to sign this petition, you may at some point wish to
quit waiting around, and vote with your wallet.


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:14:12 -0400 fire-eyes
<sgtphou@fire-eyes.dynup.net> wrote:
| On Mon, 2004-09-27 at 15:49 +0300, Adrian CAPDEFIER wrote:
| > Hello.
| > I recently found this [1] on the net. I don't know if this is new or
| > not so let's not have a flame bonanza about it and just ignore the
| > message if it's not news to you.
|
| I don't mean to urinate on a parade, but ATI seems to be one of those
| companies that take votes with money, or lack of. I got rid of mine
| after giving up, and got an Nvidia.

Hm. so you ditched a company which doesn't really care about Linux for a
company which would be hard pressed to care less about Linux...

--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Sparc, MIPS, Vim, Fluxbox)
Mail : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm

On September 27, 2004 05:14 pm, fire-eyes wrote:
> I don't mean to urinate on a parade, but ATI seems to be one of those
> companies that take votes with money, or lack of. I got rid of mine
> after giving up, and got an Nvidia.
>
> While you may want to sign this petition, you may at some point wish to
> quit waiting around, and vote with your wallet.

the thing is. you're completely right. we're expecting a corporation to
develop drivers for a "fringe" operating system. ati (and nvidia for that
matter) has no substantial reason to pour any money into developing drivers
for us since there's not enough...

'course that's what i though until i saw how many people had signed the
pettition. i think it was 17000 or something like that when i signed it...
i guess i can hope that with numbers like that even a profit-driven
corporation would be willing to dump a little more money into linux
support...

--
thinking is easy, acting is difficult,
and to put one's thoughts into action
is the most difficult thing in the world.
- johann wolfgang von goethe

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

> On Mon, 2004-09-27 at 15:49 +0300, Adrian CAPDEFIER wrote:
>> Hello.
>> I recently found this [1] on the net. I don't know if this is new or not
>> so let's not have a flame bonanza about it and just ignore the message
>> if it's not news to you.

According to this article (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18664) ATI
is planning to give their Linux driver more much needed attention.

FYI: I signed the petition a week or so ago when I saw it on LWN.net

byron



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gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:14:12 -0400 fire-eyes
> <sgtphou@fire-eyes.dynup.net> wrote:
> | On Mon, 2004-09-27 at 15:49 +0300, Adrian CAPDEFIER wrote:
> | > Hello.
> | > I recently found this [1] on the net. I don't know if this is new or
> | > not so let's not have a flame bonanza about it and just ignore the
> | > message if it's not news to you.
> |
> | I don't mean to urinate on a parade, but ATI seems to be one of those
> | companies that take votes with money, or lack of. I got rid of mine
> | after giving up, and got an Nvidia.
>
> Hm. so you ditched a company which doesn't really care about Linux for a
> company which would be hard pressed to care less about Linux...
>
Sometimes you have to dance with the devil that you know, and as far as
I'm concerned NVIDIA sure has been a better
friend to Linux than has ATI.

--
Edward A Mihalow Jr prr56@bellsouth.net
Mihalow Consulting
www.mihalowconsulting.com
Gentoo Linux! Registered Linux User#225662

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

quoth the daniel:
> the thing is. you're completely right. we're expecting a corporation to
> develop drivers for a "fringe" operating system. ati (and nvidia for that
> matter) has no substantial reason to pour any money into developing drivers
> for us since there's not enough...
>
> 'course that's what i though until i saw how many people had signed the
> pettition. i think it was 17000 or something like that when i signed it...
> i guess i can hope that with numbers like that even a profit-driven
> corporation would be willing to dump a little more money into linux
> support...

I just signed as number 17565. Not bad for a bunch of linux freaks. Perhaps
they will listen?

-d
--
Part of the problem since 1976
http://badcomputer.no-ip.com
Get my public key from
http://keyserver.linux.it/pks/lookup?op=index&search=bulliver
"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..."
- Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, June 1972

Or get them to release the tech specs to the community
and we could build the drivers for them ?

Company secrets !!!!

daniel wrote:
> On September 27, 2004 05:14 pm, fire-eyes wrote:
>
>>I don't mean to urinate on a parade, but ATI seems to be one of those
>>companies that take votes with money, or lack of. I got rid of mine
>>after giving up, and got an Nvidia.
>>
>>While you may want to sign this petition, you may at some point wish to
>>quit waiting around, and vote with your wallet.
>
>
> the thing is. you're completely right. we're expecting a corporation to
> develop drivers for a "fringe" operating system. ati (and nvidia for that
> matter) has no substantial reason to pour any money into developing drivers
> for us since there's not enough...
>
> 'course that's what i though until i saw how many people had signed the
> pettition. i think it was 17000 or something like that when i signed it...
> i guess i can hope that with numbers like that even a profit-driven
> corporation would be willing to dump a little more money into linux
> support...
>

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

kage <error@fuckinginternet.com> writes:

> Or get them to release the tech specs to the community
> and we could build the drivers for them ?
>
> Company secrets !!!!

That is something which I have never understood. These companies are
in business to sell hardware, not software. You would think that it
would be to their advantage to publish the interface specs to allow
Linux, and other, drivers to be written as this would increase their
sales and give them a competitive advantage.

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

>>Or get them to release the tech specs to the community
>>and we could build the drivers for them ?
>>
>>Company secrets !!!!
>>
>>
>
>That is something which I have never understood. These companies are
>in business to sell hardware, not software. You would think that it
>would be to their advantage to publish the interface specs to allow
>Linux, and other, drivers to be written as this would increase their
>sales and give them a competitive advantage.
>
>
Ahhh yes, but you would be amazed by what 'company secrets' you can
glean about the hardware that 'these companies' sell, from the intimate
details of the interfaces you need to know to write decent driver
software. So, it would seem that in some respects, proprietry
binary-only drivers may be the only way to go.

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Graham Murray wrote:
> kage <error@fuckinginternet.com> writes:
>
>
>>Or get them to release the tech specs to the community
>>and we could build the drivers for them ?
>>
>>Company secrets !!!!
>
>
> That is something which I have never understood. These companies are
> in business to sell hardware, not software. You would think that it
> would be to their advantage to publish the interface specs to allow
> Linux, and other, drivers to be written as this would increase their
> sales and give them a competitive advantage.


Drivers are closely tied in with the hardware. They say that releasing
the specs will reveal hardware secrets (or marketing secrets in the case
of lexmark but let's not go there).

On a side note 17.500 cards (some ppl have multiple) times 100$ average
proffit on a video card (is this much?) equals 1.750.000 profits.
Considering about future earnings were video cards will get better (read
expensive (read more profitable)) this means more than 1.750.000$ losses
in future video cards upgrades. Even if I'm wrong on the
profit-per-product and it's 50$ it still is a large sum. With half of
that half you can still create good linux drivers.

All in all it's a good choice for ATI, unless someone is paying them $$$
not to develop theese drivers $-). By someone I under no circumstances
mean MS who would never do such a thing.

--

Adi

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Adrian CAPDEFIER wrote:
> Graham Murray wrote:
>
> Drivers are closely tied in with the hardware. They say that releasing
> the specs will reveal hardware secrets (or marketing secrets in the case
> of lexmark but let's not go there).

Y'know, as the owner of an AIW Radeon 9800 SE, on which the AIW that I
paid extra to have doesn't work because there are no drivers which
currently support TV-in for the RageTheater 300 chip (Gatos "is working
on it", but heaven only knows when they'll be able to release something
or how long it will be before what they release actually works--meaning
no offense to the Gatos project, whom I admire tremendously for
producing anything for any chip under these circumstances), I don't so
much care whether the drivers are open source.

I mean, no, I don't *like* tainting my kernel with proprietary binaries,
but fine, I accept the 'right' of some companies to protect their
corporate secrets, and I'm not such a hard-liner that I won't use some
proprietary software when needed.

But if they're going to keep the driver details secret, then *they have
to work on the $%#&@ drivers!* (If they weren't secret, we would help).
This is what ticks me off. They won't let us help, and they won't do the
work-- leaving me, the user, in a real bind in terms of either being
forced to spend more money for an 'inferior' card that I did not intend
to buy (I don't have another Eur 225 to get a reasonably equivalent card
to the one I have), or being forced to remain with an item that I paid
for on which the features I paid for do not work, because I'm using an
'alternative' OS.

What right does a *hardware* company have to specify what OS I must run
(assuming that the OS itself supports the features in question, which
Linux does)? That's what really gets my goat about this issue.

I read the article linked earlier about the 'new push for Linux drivers'
at ATI-- I just hope that if they're only going to devote resources
'proportionate to the market' of 4% (assuming that those numbers are
accurate, given that we don't really know how much Linux use we have via
dual-booting and the like, and that Linux use statistics is definitely a
moving target, especially right now), that those "5" new developers (or
however few they are) are *good* developers who give a hoot about what
they produce. In which case I don't care if they are only two, or two
hundred (though I'd feel bad for the two who had to do all the work
themselves).

> All in all it's a good choice for ATI, unless someone is paying them $$$
> not to develop theese drivers $-). By someone I under no circumstances
> mean MS who would never do such a thing.

Oh, jeez. Never thought of this. I'm no saint, but my mind doesn't work
on this level of devious underhandedness. How much would that suck if it
were the case, which it of course is not, because-- as you say-- MS
would never, EVER do such a thing, as even the most casual student of
history (computing and legal) could easily see.

Thanks for bumming me out ;-)

Holly

P.S. I didn't much like the demand that ATI open their driver specs to
the community, so I have not yet signed the petition, but I guess I
should, since the numbers are clearly important ("Stand up and be
counted!").

--
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> Holly Bostick wrote:
>
> But if they're going to keep the driver details secret, then *they have
> to work on the $%#&@ drivers!* (If they weren't secret, we would help).
> This is what ticks me off. They won't let us help, and they won't do the
> work-- leaving me, the user, in a real bind in terms of either being
> forced to spend more money for an 'inferior' card that I did not intend
> to buy (I don't have another Eur 225 to get a reasonably equivalent card
> to the one I have), or being forced to remain with an item that I paid
> for on which the features I paid for do not work, because I'm using an
> 'alternative' OS.
>
> What right does a *hardware* company have to specify what OS I must run
> (assuming that the OS itself supports the features in question, which
> Linux does)? That's what really gets my goat about this issue.
>

There is this attitude in business that you need to run the product
as spec'ed because they can only assure you it works within those parameters.
There is often in meetings, discussions about what will be supported and
what won't. There are also the discussions about how much to tell
the customer because telling them too much would allow them to know what
doesn't work - most hardware being shipped today has numerous failings.

And that is the main jist of closed source drivers - besides protecting
ip, it's hiding all the hardware flaws with software workarounds. I've
been exposed to enough of this to make me disgusted at a lot of major
hardware vendors. As well as knowing that fixing these problems won't
happen if they don't cost the compnay any sales to major customers.

> I read the article linked earlier about the 'new push for Linux drivers'
> at ATI-- I just hope that if they're only going to devote resources
> 'proportionate to the market' of 4% (assuming that those numbers are
> accurate, given that we don't really know how much Linux use we have via
> dual-booting and the like, and that Linux use statistics is definitely a
> moving target, especially right now), that those "5" new developers (or
> however few they are) are *good* developers who give a hoot about what
> they produce. In which case I don't care if they are only two, or two
> hundred (though I'd feel bad for the two who had to do all the work
> themselves).
>

The stats they are quoting have nothing to do with the home user. It's
business users - CAD/CAE coporate types that ATI is concerned about
supporting. They are going to compete against Nvidia and 3DLabs in
that arena, thus the resource commitment.

> >All in all it's a good choice for ATI, unless someone is paying them $$$
> >not to develop theese drivers $-). By someone I under no circumstances
> >mean MS who would never do such a thing.
>
> Oh, jeez. Never thought of this. I'm no saint, but my mind doesn't work
> on this level of devious underhandedness. How much would that suck if it
> were the case, which it of course is not, because-- as you say-- MS
> would never, EVER do such a thing, as even the most casual student of
> history (computing and legal) could easily see.
>

Sorry, in this case more is being read into this than there is. If you recall,
ATI never had a Linux strategy. The only Linux drivers that existed were those
of the FireGL line, that ATI purchased. As a corporation this left them with
a couple of driver trees. And at this time Nvidia had only one software
tree. It took Nvidia around 3 years to get a decent Linux driver out. In ATI's
case, they have to merge the trees and produce a Linux driver. Given their
recent support activities, I'd say the driver trees have been merged and now they
are seriously working on getting decent Linux drivers. But, they still have
a ways to go.

Bob

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Bob Sanders wrote:
>
>>>All in all it's a good choice for ATI, unless someone is paying them $$$
>>>not to develop theese drivers $-). By someone I under no circumstances
>>>mean MS who would never do such a thing.
>>
>>Oh, jeez. Never thought of this. I'm no saint, but my mind doesn't work
>>on this level of devious underhandedness. How much would that suck if it
>>were the case, which it of course is not, because-- as you say-- MS
>>would never, EVER do such a thing, as even the most casual student of
>>history (computing and legal) could easily see.
>>
>
>
> Sorry, in this case more is being read into this than there is. If you recall,
> ATI never had a Linux strategy. The only Linux drivers that existed were those
> of the FireGL line, that ATI purchased. As a corporation this left them with
> a couple of driver trees. And at this time Nvidia had only one software
> tree. It took Nvidia around 3 years to get a decent Linux driver out. In ATI's
> case, they have to merge the trees and produce a Linux driver. Given their
> recent support activities, I'd say the driver trees have been merged and now they
> are seriously working on getting decent Linux drivers. But, they still have
> a ways to go.
>
> Bob
>
Points well taken, but, as a freelancer/consultant, I rarely enter a
corp or gov agency that is not totally excited about linux. IBM even
runs linux on their mainframes now. From where I sit, the tide has
turned for workstations and servers. Workstations require advanced
graphics. When companies that build software that sells for millions
of dollars and they deside to move to support linux on the desktop,
MS has to be careful not to piss off these sorts of companies that
purvey Rf and signal processing software. Because if they do, they'll
spin a video card. Many very expensive software packages, in the EE
realm are now supporting linux, with a passion. Looking sales of video
cards to that market, the movie studios, animanimantion, and many
other areas that need both linux and high end video cards, is causing
ATI pain in the wallet.......

The tide is turning, rapidly, from what I see...
Kind of like the fall of the AT&T empire......


James




--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

> >
> Points well taken, but, as a freelancer/consultant, I rarely enter a
> corp or gov agency that is not totally excited about linux. IBM even
> runs linux on their mainframes now. From where I sit, the tide has
> turned for workstations and servers. Workstations require advanced
> graphics. When companies that build software that sells for millions
> of dollars and they deside to move to support linux on the desktop,
> MS has to be careful not to piss off these sorts of companies that
> purvey Rf and signal processing software. Because if they do, they'll
> spin a video card. Many very expensive software packages, in the EE
> realm are now supporting linux, with a passion. Looking sales of video
> cards to that market, the movie studios, animanimantion, and many
> other areas that need both linux and high end video cards, is causing
> ATI pain in the wallet.......
>

Yes. However, ATI has had a bit of a Linux strategy - XiG. They
have been producing drivers for the entire ATI line for both Linux
and Solaris. At least up to the R300 chip series where ATI wouldn't
release anything ,even under NDA. It's only been last month that
ATI finally caved in.

Simply put ATI has finally seen the need, but getting video drivers
working with all the variants in hardware and various "features"
in their chips is not a quick nor an easy task.

And XiG is still selling to the government and end users that need
stable and fast drivers. While they are rather arogant on their web
site, if you can get past that, they do produce a very fast X server
and driver. And their Xsetup util is very nice.

On my laptop with an ATI Radeon mobility m6 (equiv to a Radeon 7000),
using Xorg-x11, 6.7, I got a whopping 77 fps in glxgears, in it's
normal window. With the XiG X server and driver it's 272 fps. I
can play Quake and QuakeIII, but UT2003 will only bench at 10 fps.

Now as for picture quality - both ATI and Nvidia are lacking. If
you've never sat in front of an LCD monitor driven by the DVI output
of a 3DLabs card running a driver by XiG on Linux, you just haven't
seen graphics. Even the text has a 3D quality to it. Embossed
text like Gkrellm's is amazing - real depth, very crisp edges.
Pictures, 3D graphics, etc. all just amazing. But you can't
play UT2003 nor UT2004. And video overlay doesn't work, but video
plays fine. The video overlay is something I think 3DLabs had
a hardware bug with on the VP series cards as it was always
promised but never delivered.

Bob

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Good news

New ATI Linux Drivers 3.14.1 are released. Hopefully there will be in
portage soon. I an keen to see if I can upgrade xorg to 6.8 :)



On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:03:18 -0700, Bob Sanders <rsanders@engr.sgi.com> wrote:
> > >
> > Points well taken, but, as a freelancer/consultant, I rarely enter a
> > corp or gov agency that is not totally excited about linux. IBM even
> > runs linux on their mainframes now. From where I sit, the tide has
> > turned for workstations and servers. Workstations require advanced
> > graphics. When companies that build software that sells for millions
> > of dollars and they deside to move to support linux on the desktop,
> > MS has to be careful not to piss off these sorts of companies that
> > purvey Rf and signal processing software. Because if they do, they'll
> > spin a video card. Many very expensive software packages, in the EE
> > realm are now supporting linux, with a passion. Looking sales of video
> > cards to that market, the movie studios, animanimantion, and many
> > other areas that need both linux and high end video cards, is causing
> > ATI pain in the wallet.......
> >
>
> Yes. However, ATI has had a bit of a Linux strategy - XiG. They
> have been producing drivers for the entire ATI line for both Linux
> and Solaris. At least up to the R300 chip series where ATI wouldn't
> release anything ,even under NDA. It's only been last month that
> ATI finally caved in.
>
> Simply put ATI has finally seen the need, but getting video drivers
> working with all the variants in hardware and various "features"
> in their chips is not a quick nor an easy task.
>
> And XiG is still selling to the government and end users that need
> stable and fast drivers. While they are rather arogant on their web
> site, if you can get past that, they do produce a very fast X server
> and driver. And their Xsetup util is very nice.
>
> On my laptop with an ATI Radeon mobility m6 (equiv to a Radeon 7000),
> using Xorg-x11, 6.7, I got a whopping 77 fps in glxgears, in it's
> normal window. With the XiG X server and driver it's 272 fps. I
> can play Quake and QuakeIII, but UT2003 will only bench at 10 fps.
>
> Now as for picture quality - both ATI and Nvidia are lacking. If
> you've never sat in front of an LCD monitor driven by the DVI output
> of a 3DLabs card running a driver by XiG on Linux, you just haven't
> seen graphics. Even the text has a 3D quality to it. Embossed
> text like Gkrellm's is amazing - real depth, very crisp edges.
> Pictures, 3D graphics, etc. all just amazing. But you can't
> play UT2003 nor UT2004. And video overlay doesn't work, but video
> plays fine. The video overlay is something I think 3DLabs had
> a hardware bug with on the VP series cards as it was always
> promised but never delivered.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Marten wrote:
> Good news
>
> New ATI Linux Drivers 3.14.1 are released. Hopefully there will be in
> portage soon. I an keen to see if I can upgrade xorg to 6.8 :)
>
>

Thanks for the heads up! Two driver releases in the same month, and a
two-point jump! Oh, yes, I'm excited.... things may just be looking up!

Holly


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gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

I'm running the new drivers. Not a big improvement. Nwn bugs still
there. Xorg 6.8.0 still don't run.

Gustavo

Em Qui, 2004-09-30 às 06:17, Holly Bostick escreveu:
> Marten wrote:
> > Good news
> >
> > New ATI Linux Drivers 3.14.1 are released. Hopefully there will be in
> > portage soon. I an keen to see if I can upgrade xorg to 6.8 :)
> >
> >
>
> Thanks for the heads up! Two driver releases in the same month, and a
> two-point jump! Oh, yes, I'm excited.... things may just be looking up!
>
> Holly
>
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

Gustavo Ribeiro Alves wrote:
> I'm running the new drivers. Not a big improvement. Nwn bugs still
> there. Xorg 6.8.0 still don't run.
>
> Gustavo

Could somebody please tell me what these bugs in NWN are that people
see? I play NWN all the time, and have yet to see anything that I
recognize as an ATI driver-specific bug (or at least, nothing that
hasn't been fixed, like the "hitching"). I do sometimes get some texture
tearing, but that seems to be more of a camera issue than the drivers (I
only see this when I'm standing very close to a wall, zoomed in and have
to futz around trying find a way to get the character to move someplace
so the camera will zoom back out).

Other than that, I have no problems, but maybe I'm not familiar enough
with the game (only in Chapter 2).

So what's the beefs that everybody has?

Holly

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Holly Bostick wrote:

> Other than that, I have no problems, but maybe I'm not familiar enough
> with the game (only in Chapter 2).

I get bumped out all the time. I'll be playing, and poof, I'm stareing
at my X desktop, but it's in a strange resolution.

If I start it up again, load the save game, I'm good to go.

It didn't really happen much in the official maps, but it did happen
once or twice.

Still, these problems don't manifest itself on my FC1 box with Nvidia
drivers.

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

There's the memory leak bug that can be fixed with agplock option.
System memory will get used until you start to use swap space and the
game slow down.

There's a bug that make the game slow down to a crawl after about 15
minutes of gameplay.

There's also a hardlock that makes the system unresponsible to
mouse/keyboard commands (but you can still log into it via ssh and kill
the process).

All of those bugs start happening after the 3.2.8 driver.

Em Qui, 2004-09-30 às 12:40, Holly Bostick escreveu:
> Gustavo Ribeiro Alves wrote:
> > I'm running the new drivers. Not a big improvement. Nwn bugs still
> > there. Xorg 6.8.0 still don't run.
> >
> > Gustavo
>
> Could somebody please tell me what these bugs in NWN are that people
> see? I play NWN all the time, and have yet to see anything that I
> recognize as an ATI driver-specific bug (or at least, nothing that
> hasn't been fixed, like the "hitching"). I do sometimes get some texture
> tearing, but that seems to be more of a camera issue than the drivers (I
> only see this when I'm standing very close to a wall, zoomed in and have
> to futz around trying find a way to get the character to move someplace
> so the camera will zoom back out).
>
> Other than that, I have no problems, but maybe I'm not familiar enough
> with the game (only in Chapter 2).
>
> So what's the beefs that everybody has?
>
> Holly
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

Hello,

Most of the bugs that I see are in online games. I play on Hidden
Traditions (a Persistant World), and there are some weird issues with
sound that occur when in areas that use 3rd Party HAKs. In these
circumstances, the sound will get louder by 3x - 4x for 2 or 3 seconds
and then go back to normal, all of which is jarring.

This is probably more of an ALSA issue, but might be an ATI one. After
I reinstall nwn, I'll know for sure, since I just got a new nVidia card.

Cheers,
Barry

Holly Bostick wrote:

> Could somebody please tell me what these bugs in NWN are that people
> see? I play NWN all the time, and have yet to see anything that I
> recognize as an ATI driver-specific bug (or at least, nothing that
> hasn't been fixed, like the "hitching"). I do sometimes get some
> texture tearing, but that seems to be more of a camera issue than the
> drivers (I only see this when I'm standing very close to a wall,
> zoomed in and have to futz around trying find a way to get the
> character to move someplace so the camera will zoom back out).
>
> Other than that, I have no problems, but maybe I'm not familiar enough
> with the game (only in Chapter 2).
>
> So what's the beefs that everybody has?
>
> Holly



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