Mailing List Archive

I don't know how do it, but it seems an UserMode Linux feature... so
why use vmware?

regards, teo


On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:58:51 +0000, Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm installing a Gentoo in VMware right now that I'll use to test
> updates etc. before I make them on the system's "real" Gentoo. It
> sounds like the only VMware way to copy my host machine over to the
> virtual machine is with some expensive software. What would you guys
> recommend for this application?
>
> I can set up a virtual network between the host and virtual machines,
> so I was thinking I could just keep a fresh base Gentoo install backed
> up, and copy crucial directories from the host OS to the guest OS
> (which would be a copy of the base installation backup) when it's time
> to test. Toby mentioned unison in another thread, and it sounds like
> that might be a good tool for the job. Is there a better way?
>
> - Grant
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

> I don't know how do it, but it seems an UserMode Linux feature... so
> why use vmware?
>
> regards, teo
>
>

Actually a guy on the UML list said VMware is a better fit for this
type of thing. It seems like UML is more oriented towards scaling and
performance while VMware is more oriented toward ease-of-use. I also
need to be able to run a virtual Windows, and with VMware I can have
win98se and winxp set up and even running simultaneously. Win4Lin is
one-at-a-time (with one license) and can't run XP at all. It's also
nice not to have to patch the kernel for VMware like you need to for
UML and/or Win4Lin.

- Grant

>
>
> On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:58:51 +0000, Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm installing a Gentoo in VMware right now that I'll use to test
> > updates etc. before I make them on the system's "real" Gentoo. It
> > sounds like the only VMware way to copy my host machine over to the
> > virtual machine is with some expensive software. What would you guys
> > recommend for this application?
> >
> > I can set up a virtual network between the host and virtual machines,
> > so I was thinking I could just keep a fresh base Gentoo install backed
> > up, and copy crucial directories from the host OS to the guest OS
> > (which would be a copy of the base installation backup) when it's time
> > to test. Toby mentioned unison in another thread, and it sounds like
> > that might be a good tool for the job. Is there a better way?
> >
> > - Grant

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

why not just tasr up your existing system (or those parts of it you want
replicated) and the use the virtual network to transfer the tarball to
the vmware system, then untar it.


On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:58:51 +0000
Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm installing a Gentoo in VMware right now that I'll use to test
> updates etc. before I make them on the system's "real" Gentoo. It
> sounds like the only VMware way to copy my host machine over to the
> virtual machine is with some expensive software. What would you guys
> recommend for this application?
>
> I can set up a virtual network between the host and virtual machines,
> so I was thinking I could just keep a fresh base Gentoo install backed
> up, and copy crucial directories from the host OS to the guest OS
> (which would be a copy of the base installation backup) when it's time
> to test. Toby mentioned unison in another thread, and it sounds like
> that might be a good tool for the job. Is there a better way?
>
> - Grant
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

--
Nick Rout <nick@rout.co.nz>


--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:58:51 +0000, Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm installing a Gentoo in VMware right now that I'll use to test
> updates etc. before I make them on the system's "real" Gentoo. It
> sounds like the only VMware way to copy my host machine over to the
> virtual machine is with some expensive software. What would you guys
> recommend for this application?
>
> I can set up a virtual network between the host and virtual machines,
> so I was thinking I could just keep a fresh base Gentoo install backed
> up, and copy crucial directories from the host OS to the guest OS
> (which would be a copy of the base installation backup) when it's time
> to test. Toby mentioned unison in another thread, and it sounds like
> that might be a good tool for the job. Is there a better way?
>
> - Grant

Also, I should have asked, does anyone see any potential pitfalls in
the above? I think I just need to make sure the OSes are on the same
level up through emerge system. Then I can just synchronize /etc ,
/usr/portage , and /usr/src, emerge world, and have functionally
identical systems for testing. Am I forgetting something?

- Grant

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

On 7 Sep 2004, at 15:05, Grant wrote:
>> I don't know how do it, but it seems an UserMode Linux feature... so
>> why use vmware?
>
> Actually a guy on the UML list said VMware is a better fit for this
> type of thing. It seems like UML is more oriented towards scaling and
> performance while VMware is more oriented toward ease-of-use. I also
> need to be able to run a virtual Windows, and with VMware I can have
> win98se and winxp set up and even running simultaneously. Win4Lin is
> one-at-a-time (with one license) and can't run XP at all. It's also
> nice not to have to patch the kernel for VMware like you need to for
> UML and/or Win4Lin.

Well, you *do* have to make kernel modifications to use VMware - they're
just in modules (vmnet, vmmon) instead of direct patches, like SKAS
(which
isn't even required for UML to work).

UML also has the advantage of being MUCH easier to copy data to/from -
you
can just loopback mount the disk image, instead of having to set up an
OS
to copy data from VMware.

Of course, UML won't do you any good if you want to run Windows. That's
what
VMware is for.

On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 16:11:17 -0700, Andrew Farmer <andfarm@teknovis.com> wrote:
> On 7 Sep 2004, at 15:05, Grant wrote:
> >> I don't know how do it, but it seems an UserMode Linux feature... so
> >> why use vmware?
> >
> > Actually a guy on the UML list said VMware is a better fit for this
> > type of thing. It seems like UML is more oriented towards scaling and
> > performance while VMware is more oriented toward ease-of-use. I also
> > need to be able to run a virtual Windows, and with VMware I can have
> > win98se and winxp set up and even running simultaneously. Win4Lin is
> > one-at-a-time (with one license) and can't run XP at all. It's also
> > nice not to have to patch the kernel for VMware like you need to for
> > UML and/or Win4Lin.
>
> Well, you *do* have to make kernel modifications to use VMware - they're
> just in modules (vmnet, vmmon) instead of direct patches, like SKAS
> (which
> isn't even required for UML to work).
>
> UML also has the advantage of being MUCH easier to copy data to/from -
> you
> can just loopback mount the disk image, instead of having to set up an
> OS
> to copy data from VMware.
>
> Of course, UML won't do you any good if you want to run Windows. That's
> what
> VMware is for.

Would it work to tar up the entire host root partition and extract it
in a freshly formatted filesystem on the virtual root partition? I'm
not familiar enough with Gentoo yet to know if that would create a
working duplicate system.

- Grant

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

From what I have read that should work. Then you would just have to
set up your bootloader . Make sure when you do it you have all of
your partitions mounted e.g. /boot /home and any others you may have.
And also make sure that your partitions are mounted how you want them
on your freshly formatted drives. Let me know how it goes if you do
decide to do this. I have been thinking about switching over to
reiser4.


On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 01:50:37 +0000, Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 16:11:17 -0700, Andrew Farmer <andfarm@teknovis.com> wrote:
> > On 7 Sep 2004, at 15:05, Grant wrote:
> > >> I don't know how do it, but it seems an UserMode Linux feature... so
> > >> why use vmware?
> > >
> > > Actually a guy on the UML list said VMware is a better fit for this
> > > type of thing. It seems like UML is more oriented towards scaling and
> > > performance while VMware is more oriented toward ease-of-use. I also
> > > need to be able to run a virtual Windows, and with VMware I can have
> > > win98se and winxp set up and even running simultaneously. Win4Lin is
> > > one-at-a-time (with one license) and can't run XP at all. It's also
> > > nice not to have to patch the kernel for VMware like you need to for
> > > UML and/or Win4Lin.
> >
> > Well, you *do* have to make kernel modifications to use VMware - they're
> > just in modules (vmnet, vmmon) instead of direct patches, like SKAS
> > (which
> > isn't even required for UML to work).
> >
> > UML also has the advantage of being MUCH easier to copy data to/from -
> > you
> > can just loopback mount the disk image, instead of having to set up an
> > OS
> > to copy data from VMware.
> >
> > Of course, UML won't do you any good if you want to run Windows. That's
> > what
> > VMware is for.
>
> Would it work to tar up the entire host root partition and extract it
> in a freshly formatted filesystem on the virtual root partition? I'm
> not familiar enough with Gentoo yet to know if that would create a
> working duplicate system.
>
>
>
> - Grant
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

On 7 Sep 2004, at 18:50, Grant wrote:
> Would it work to tar up the entire host root partition and extract it
> in a freshly formatted filesystem on the virtual root partition? I'm
> not familiar enough with Gentoo yet to know if that would create a
> working duplicate system.

Sure, it'd work, except that you may have some trouble getting the
archive onto the VMware system without having Linux already installed
on the virtual machine (catch-22!).

On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:43:22 -0700, Andrew Farmer <andfarm@teknovis.com> wrote:
> On 7 Sep 2004, at 18:50, Grant wrote:
> > Would it work to tar up the entire host root partition and extract it
> > in a freshly formatted filesystem on the virtual root partition? I'm
> > not familiar enough with Gentoo yet to know if that would create a
> > working duplicate system.
>
> Sure, it'd work, except that you may have some trouble getting the
> archive onto the VMware system without having Linux already installed
> on the virtual machine (catch-22!).

Very good point. I'm not exactly sure how this would work, but could
you mount a LiveCD image, have VMware use it to "boot" to, then make
the filesystem and extract the archive?

- Grant

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

yes, done that before. However, you will run into problems in that the
vmware machine does not have virtual hardware that is similar to the
machine you are using to host. Those differences will need to be taken
into account before booting!

BillK


On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 12:01, Grant wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:43:22 -0700, Andrew Farmer <andfarm@teknovis.com> wrote:
> > On 7 Sep 2004, at 18:50, Grant wrote:
> > > Would it work to tar up the entire host root partition and extract it
> > > in a freshly formatted filesystem on the virtual root partition? I'm
> > > not familiar enough with Gentoo yet to know if that would create a
> > > working duplicate system.
> >
> > Sure, it'd work, except that you may have some trouble getting the
> > archive onto the VMware system without having Linux already installed
> > on the virtual machine (catch-22!).
>
> Very good point. I'm not exactly sure how this would work, but could
> you mount a LiveCD image, have VMware use it to "boot" to, then make
> the filesystem and extract the archive?
>
> - Grant
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 12:31:30 +0800, Bill Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> yes, done that before. However, you will run into problems in that the
> vmware machine does not have virtual hardware that is similar to the
> machine you are using to host. Those differences will need to be taken
> into account before booting!
>
> BillK
>

Ok, do you think this will work:

1. tar the host root partition
2. boot VMware to a mounted LiveCD image
3. copy the tar archive to the virtual root partition through the
virtual network and extract it
4. edit files as necessary (/etc/fstab , ?)

- Grant

> On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 12:01, Grant wrote:
> > On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:43:22 -0700, Andrew Farmer <andfarm@teknovis.com> wrote:
> > > On 7 Sep 2004, at 18:50, Grant wrote:
> > > > Would it work to tar up the entire host root partition and extract it
> > > > in a freshly formatted filesystem on the virtual root partition? I'm
> > > > not familiar enough with Gentoo yet to know if that would create a
> > > > working duplicate system.
> > >
> > > Sure, it'd work, except that you may have some trouble getting the
> > > archive onto the VMware system without having Linux already installed
> > > on the virtual machine (catch-22!).
> >
> > Very good point. I'm not exactly sure how this would work, but could
> > you mount a LiveCD image, have VMware use it to "boot" to, then make
> > the filesystem and extract the archive?
> >
> > - Grant
> >
> > --
> > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

I installed from the live cd, didnt try and boot from an image. I have
done complete installs by copying via tar though, whilst booted to a
livecd.

editing in this case usually means building a new kernel with the right
options (genkernel may help, but my success rate was so low Ive given up
on it), and major editing of many files (modules, fstab, network -
almost everything will need altering), boot loader.

I dont think you will have much success in your idea of mimicking a
system as there is just too much different at the hardware level. to be
viable.

I use vmware to test wild configs and potentially destructive actions
(e.g., the move to 2.6), that way I can destroy two systems at once :)

BillK

On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 12:53, Grant wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 12:31:30 +0800, Bill Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> > yes, done that before. However, you will run into problems in that the
> > vmware machine does not have virtual hardware that is similar to the
> > machine you are using to host. Those differences will need to be taken
> > into account before booting!
> >
> > BillK
> >
>
> Ok, do you think this will work:
>
> 1. tar the host root partition
> 2. boot VMware to a mounted LiveCD image
> 3. copy the tar archive to the virtual root partition through the
> virtual network and extract it
> 4. edit files as necessary (/etc/fstab , ?)
>
> - Grant
>
> > On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 12:01, Grant wrote:
> > > On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:43:22 -0700, Andrew Farmer <andfarm@teknovis.com> wrote:
> > > > On 7 Sep 2004, at 18:50, Grant wrote:
> > > > > Would it work to tar up the entire host root partition and extract it
> > > > > in a freshly formatted filesystem on the virtual root partition? I'm
> > > > > not familiar enough with Gentoo yet to know if that would create a
> > > > > working duplicate system.
> > > >
> > > > Sure, it'd work, except that you may have some trouble getting the
> > > > archive onto the VMware system without having Linux already installed
> > > > on the virtual machine (catch-22!).
> > >
> > > Very good point. I'm not exactly sure how this would work, but could
> > > you mount a LiveCD image, have VMware use it to "boot" to, then make
> > > the filesystem and extract the archive?
> > >
> > > - Grant
> > >
> > > --
> > > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> >
> >
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list



--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

On Tuesday 07 of September 2004 20:58, Grant wrote:
> I'm installing a Gentoo in VMware right now that I'll use to test
> updates etc. before I make them on the system's "real" Gentoo. It
> sounds like the only VMware way to copy my host machine over to the
> virtual machine is with some expensive software. What would you guys
> recommend for this application?
>
> I can set up a virtual network between the host and virtual machines,
> so I was thinking I could just keep a fresh base Gentoo install backed
> up, and copy crucial directories from the host OS to the guest OS
> (which would be a copy of the base installation backup) when it's time
> to test. Toby mentioned unison in another thread, and it sounds like
> that might be a good tool for the job. Is there a better way?
>
> - Grant
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

When virtual machine is running, install vmware tools from the VM menu. That
will let you share directories between host and virtual machine among other
stuff.

--
Best regards,
Robi

On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 16:36:33 +0800, Bill Kenworthy wrote:

> I dont think you will have much success in your idea of mimicking a
> system as there is just too much different at the hardware level. to
> be viable.

I've done it the other way round with no problems. i wanted to install
Gentoo on a fairly low powered machine (VIA C£ Mini-ITX) with minimal
downtime. so I installed it into a virtual machine on my desktop
computer, then transferred the contents of the various partitions with
rsync.

There are hardware differences, but these mainly affect the kernel
configuration. Provided you compile in support for both sets of hardware
and choose a generic CPU like i586, there's no problem. Once installed
and running, you can reconfigure and recompile the kernel to suit the
one platform.

Working in the other direction should be just as easy, and you can use a
KNOPPIX ISO image as the CD drive in the virtual machine, which runs a
lot faster than booting from a real KNOPPIX CD.


--
Neil Bothwick

Windoze95 Quote: Why is the Pentium 166 so fast? - Its for booting
faster, if Windows crashed again.