Mailing List Archive: Living in a bubble

Living in a bubble

benni at beejaysworld

Jun 5, 2007, 1:09 PM

Post #1 of 68 (1005 views)

This is problably going to start a flamewar, but I am sick of such
(insert appropriate term for animal excrements here) on mailing lists,
forums and even websites.

It's okay to have dreams, they keep us working on the things we like.
But trying to force your dreams to come true annoys other people. If a
Gentoo-developer cannot advocate the heart of Gentoo - i.e. Portage -
and keeps bitching about it, then he or she should probably consider
retiring completely from Gentoo and/or fork Gentoo.

In no case, he or she should be talking bullshit (oops, I wrote it) in
official Gentoo-channels. This appears to users and other uninvolved
people like a kindergarden.

The reason for my mail is the following excerpt (Jun. 5th, time CEST)

--8<------------
21:36 <@spb> next step is making paludis the officially supported
package manager on alpha
21:36 <@eroyf> yes
21:36 <@eroyf> like it is on mips
21:36 * eroyf giggles
21:36 <@eroyf> all the mips devs are using it anyways
21:37 <@spb> and of course the ultimate aim is to drop alpha keywords
from portage
-->8------------

Please people. It's good to have destinies, and everybody wants to build
his own very personal monument. We had Zynot, we had GenUX, and now we
have Paludis.

Please stop acting as if the project of a small scottish griper brain
was "The Standard(tm)"

It is not and hopefully will never be (because then the bitching and
whining will finally stop).

I'm waiting for the stinky comments from the usual corners.

Yours sincerly
Beejay

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Living in a bubble [ In reply to ]

benni at beejaysworld

Jun 5, 2007, 12:57 PM

Post #2 of 68 (994 views)

This is problably going to start a flamewar, but I am sick of such
(insert appropriate term for animal excrements here) on mailing lists,
forums and even websites.

It's okay to have dreams, they keep us working on the things we like.
But trying to force your dreams to come true annoys other people. If a
Gentoo-developer cannot advocate the heart of Gentoo - i.e. Portage -
and keeps bitching about it, then he or she should probably consider
retiring completely from Gentoo and/or fork Gentoo.

In no case, he or she should be talking bullshit (oops, I wrote it) in
official Gentoo-channels. This appears to users and other uninvolved
people like a kindergarden.

The reason for my mail is the following excerpt (Jun. 5th, time CEST)

--8<------------
21:36 <@spb> next step is making paludis the officially supported
package manager on alpha
21:36 <@eroyf> yes
21:36 <@eroyf> like it is on mips
21:36 * eroyf giggles
21:36 <@eroyf> all the mips devs are using it anyways
21:37 <@spb> and of course the ultimate aim is to drop alpha keywords
from portage
-->8------------

Please people. It's good to have destinies, and everybody wants to build
his own very personal monument. We had Zynot, we had GenUX, and now we
have Paludis.

Please stop acting as if the project of a small scottish griper brain
was "The Standard(tm)"

It is not and hopefully will never be (because then the bitching and
whining will finally stop).

I'm waiting for the stinky comments from the usual corners.

Yours sincerly
Beejay

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Living in a bubble [ In reply to ]

spbecker at gmail

Jun 5, 2007, 1:18 PM

Post #3 of 68 (997 views)

*snip*
> --8<------------
> 21:36 <@spb> next step is making paludis the officially supported
> package manager on alpha
> 21:36 <@eroyf> yes
> 21:36 <@eroyf> like it is on mips
> 21:36 * eroyf giggles
> 21:36 <@eroyf> all the mips devs are using it anyways
> 21:37 <@spb> and of course the ultimate aim is to drop alpha keywords
> from portage
> -->8------------
>
> Please people. It's good to have destinies, and everybody wants to
> build his own very personal monument. We had Zynot, we had GenUX, and
> now we have Paludis.
>
> Please stop acting as if the project of a small scottish griper brain
> was "The Standard(tm)"
*snip*

Wow, did you really take that conversation seriously? If so, I feel
sorry for you, as it is clearly joke. Clean the sand out of your
pee-hole...

-Steve

Re: Living in a bubble [ In reply to ]

ciaranm at ciaranm

Jun 5, 2007, 1:25 PM

Post #4 of 68 (994 views)

On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:09:52 +0200
Benjamin Judas <benni@beejaysworld.de> wrote:
> It's okay to have dreams, they keep us working on the things we like.
> But trying to force your dreams to come true annoys other people. If a
> Gentoo-developer cannot advocate the heart of Gentoo - i.e. Portage -
> and keeps bitching about it, then he or she should probably consider
> retiring completely from Gentoo and/or fork Gentoo.

Portage is not the heart of Gentoo. The tree is the heart of Gentoo.
Portage (along with the refusal to admit that Portage is not a major
problem) is the thing holding the tree back.

And, uh, given the typical response from other developers when
someone retires completely from Gentoo and/or forks Gentoo, you might
want to reconsider trying to get even more people to leave than already
have.

> Please people. It's good to have destinies, and everybody wants to
> build his own very personal monument. We had Zynot, we had GenUX, and
> now we have Paludis.

Paludis is not a Gentoo fork. Paludis is a replacement for Portage.

--
Ciaran McCreesh

Re: Living in a bubble [ In reply to ]

benni at beejaysworld

Jun 5, 2007, 1:29 PM

Post #5 of 68 (994 views)

> > 21:36 <@spb> next step is making paludis the officially supported
> > package manager on alpha
>
> This is what is known as a joke. Most people can recognise it as such.

As is the whole discussion about this 'project'. Addionally, for this
topic the borderlines between "joke" and "serious" seem to have blurred
in the last few weeks.

I am sick of hearing such jokes.

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Living in a bubble [ In reply to ]

Jun 5, 2007, 1:30 PM

Post #6 of 68 (994 views)

On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:09:52 +0200
Benjamin Judas <benni@beejaysworld.de> wrote:

[..snip..]

Is it just me or did you send the same mail to the ML twice?

*sigh*

Re: Living in a bubble [ In reply to ]

Jun 5, 2007, 1:30 PM

Post #7 of 68 (994 views)

> --8<------------
> 21:36 <@spb> next step is making paludis the officially supported
> package manager on alpha
> 21:36 <@eroyf> yes
> 21:36 <@eroyf> like it is on mips
> 21:36 * eroyf giggles
> 21:36 <@eroyf> all the mips devs are using it anyways
> 21:37 <@spb> and of course the ultimate aim is to drop alpha keywords
> from portage
> -->8------------

eroyf retired anyways. - So what?

hmm.. just wondering why he's still got op in there. Seems like being fashion
these days..

--
Christian Hartmann
http://www.gentoo.org/~ian/

PGP Key:
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x2154E5EE692A4865
Key fingerprint = 4544 EC0C BAE4 216F 5981 7F95 2154 E5EE 692A 4865

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Re: Living in a bubble [ In reply to ]

Jun 5, 2007, 1:34 PM

Post #8 of 68 (992 views)

> 21:36 <@spb> next step is making paludis the officially supported
> package manager on alpha

This is what is known as a joke. Most people can recognise it as such.
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Living in a bubble [ In reply to ]

ciaranm at ciaranm

Jun 5, 2007, 1:37 PM

Post #9 of 68 (990 views)

On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:29:02 +0200
Benjamin Judas <benni@beejaysworld.de> wrote:
> > > 21:36 <@spb> next step is making paludis the officially supported
> > > package manager on alpha
> >
> > This is what is known as a joke. Most people can recognise it as
> > such.
>
> As is the whole discussion about this 'project'. Addionally, for this
> topic the borderlines between "joke" and "serious" seem to have
> blurred in the last few weeks.

That's an awfully vague and FUDdish claim. Care to elaborate?

> I am sick of hearing such jokes.

Then don't listen.

--
Ciaran McCreesh

Re: Living in a bubble [ In reply to ]

betelgeuse at gentoo

Jun 5, 2007, 1:38 PM

Post #10 of 68 (996 views)

Christian Hartmann kirjoitti:
>> --8<------------
>> 21:36 <@spb> next step is making paludis the officially supported
>> package manager on alpha
>> 21:36 <@eroyf> yes
>> 21:36 <@eroyf> like it is on mips
>> 21:36 * eroyf giggles
>> 21:36 <@eroyf> all the mips devs are using it anyways
>> 21:37 <@spb> and of course the ultimate aim is to drop alpha keywords
>> from portage
>> -->8------------
>
> eroyf retired anyways. - So what?
>
> hmm.. just wondering why he's still got op in there. Seems like being fashion
> these days..
>

Because we give people some time to reconsider before going ahead with
the retirement process.

Regards,
Petteri

Re: Living in a bubble [ In reply to ]

gustavoz at gentoo

Jun 5, 2007, 1:43 PM

Post #11 of 68 (991 views)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Peter Weller wrote:

> Is it just me or did you send the same mail to the ML twice?

It's just you, there's no dupe.
It's just you, there's no dupe.

- --
- --
Gustavo Zacarias
Gustavo Zacarias
Gentoo/SPARC monkey
Gentoo/SPARC monkey
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Re: Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning [ In reply to ]

neddyseagoon at gentoo

Jun 5, 2007, 1:44 PM

Post #12 of 68 (997 views)

On 2007.06.05 21:09, Benjamin Judas wrote:
> This is problably going to start a flamewar, but I am sick of such
> (insert appropriate term for animal excrements here) on mailing
> lists,
[snip]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Please step back, take a deep breath and avoid posting to this thread
for 24 hours.

For those of you not already 'in the know' humor is not universal.
It normally fails at language and cultural boundaries.
For that reason alone, it should normally be avoided in international
forums such as are provided by Gentoo.

Regards,

Roy Bamford,
(NeddySeagoon on behalf of gentoo-proctors)
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning [ In reply to ]

ciaranm at ciaranm

Jun 5, 2007, 1:52 PM

Post #13 of 68 (995 views)

On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 21:44:23 +0100
Roy Bamford <neddyseagoon@gentoo.org> wrote:
> For that reason alone, it should normally be avoided in international
> forums such as are provided by Gentoo.

Why yes! Gentoo needs to be one hundred percent serious and entirely
not fun. Anyone saying anything remotely amusing needs to be shut down
by the proctors immediately. Please keep up the good work.

--
Ciaran McCreesh

Re: Living in a bubble [ In reply to ]

Jun 5, 2007, 1:53 PM

Post #14 of 68 (995 views)

Am Dienstag 05 Juni 2007 22:37:25 schrieb Ciaran McCreesh:
> > I am sick of hearing such jokes.
>
> Then don't listen.

Nono. It's not that easy.

New users will have to listen as they have to take things seriously being said
on official channels by developers.

I'm just telling you what new users tend to think about it.

Am Dienstag 05 Juni 2007 22:38:57 schrieb Petteri RÃ¤ty:
> Because we give people some time to reconsider before going ahead with
> the retirement process.

And that's - out of question - actually a good thing.

--
Christian Hartmann
http://www.gentoo.org/~ian/

PGP Key:
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x2154E5EE692A4865
Key fingerprint = 4544 EC0C BAE4 216F 5981 7F95 2154 E5EE 692A 4865

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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Living in a bubble [ In reply to ]

lu_zero at gentoo

Jun 5, 2007, 1:54 PM

Post #15 of 68 (992 views)

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
>
> Paludis is not a Gentoo fork. Paludis is a replacement for Portage.
>

And even other distributions have things like 2 implementations of their
package...

That said paludis is quite good, even for portage since it shows
different solutions and explores different paths, the people working on
it are as dedicated as the others working on portage and/or pkgcore.

What is sad is that some people radicalize the conflicting ideas behind
those projects.

lu

--

Luca Barbato

Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Living in a bubble [ In reply to ]

armin76 at gentoo

Jun 5, 2007, 1:58 PM

Post #16 of 68 (997 views)

Peter Weller wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:09:52 +0200
> Benjamin Judas <benni@beejaysworld.de> wrote:
>
> [..snip..]
>
> Is it just me or did you send the same mail to the ML twice?
>
> *sigh*

/me blames welp
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Living in a bubble [ In reply to ]

philantrop at gentoo

Jun 5, 2007, 1:58 PM

Post #17 of 68 (996 views)

Hallo Benjamin!

"BJ" == Benjamin Judas <benni@beejaysworld.de> writes:

>> This is what is known as a joke. Most people can recognise it as
>> such.
BJ> As is the whole discussion about this 'project'. Addionally, for
BJ> this topic the borderlines between "joke" and "serious" seem to
BJ> have blurred in the last few weeks.
BJ> I am sick of hearing such jokes.

Then get yourself a thicker skin, please.

Personally, I think 90% of all quarrels here could be completely avoided
if people just didn't get themselves all worked up on some smart-ass
comments from some arrogant kids who accomplished *nothing* in "real
life" yet.

5% are from people who can't put their egos aside and feel they just
*have* to respond to anything that even remotely looks like an attack on
them or people they like.

2% are from people who think the world will stop spinning if we're
quarrelling here (hint: it'll still be spining even when Gentoo doesn't
exist anymore).

1% are from people feeling they might actually achieve something by
telling people they should grow a thicker skin, put their egos aside or
realise that Gentoo doesn't make the world go round. Those might be
morons. I intend to find out about that. :-)

The remaining 2% of all quarrels are actually good because we all need
to vent sometimes or something productive comes from the disagreement.

Can we drop this nonsense now? :-)

--
Grüße, Wulf
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning [ In reply to ]

spbecker at gmail

Jun 5, 2007, 2:00 PM

Post #18 of 68 (991 views)

On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 21:44:23 +0100
Roy Bamford <neddyseagoon@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On 2007.06.05 21:09, Benjamin Judas wrote:
> > This is problably going to start a flamewar, but I am sick of such
> > (insert appropriate term for animal excrements here) on mailing
> > lists,
> [snip]
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
> Please step back, take a deep breath and avoid posting to this thread
> for 24 hours.
>
> For those of you not already 'in the know' humor is not universal.
> It normally fails at language and cultural boundaries.
> For that reason alone, it should normally be avoided in international
> forums such as are provided by Gentoo.
>
> Regards,
>
> Roy Bamford,
> (NeddySeagoon on behalf of gentoo-proctors)

This is your official
"proctors-using-some-lame-excuse-to-try-and-rationalize-trollish-behavior"
response e-mail.

Wow, I couldn't disagree more with the proctor's stance on this one.
Benny's been around forever, has been involved in many jokes and
discussion, and I'm fully confident that he is perfectly capable of
telling the difference between that which is a joke and that which is
not.

Really, he just felt he would take a quote out of context with the
intention of starting a flamewar. Don't play the "people can't tell
the difference" card on this one.

-Steve

Re: Living in a bubble [ In reply to ]

Jun 5, 2007, 2:00 PM

Post #19 of 68 (991 views)

On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:29:02 +0200
Benjamin Judas <benni@beejaysworld.de> wrote:

> I am sick of hearing such jokes.

Then ignore them, and don't blow them out of proportion so that
everyone else who didn't see them in its original context, and probably
doesn't particularly want to, has to see them in the middle of a
large thread on -dev. I really cannot see a single reason why starting
this thread is/was a remotely good idea.
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Living in a bubble [ In reply to ]

cokehabit at gmail

Jun 5, 2007, 2:08 PM

Post #20 of 68 (996 views)

Stephen Bennett wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:29:02 +0200
> Benjamin Judas <benni@beejaysworld.de> wrote:
>
>> I am sick of hearing such jokes.
>
> Then ignore them, and don't blow them out of proportion so that
> everyone else who didn't see them in its original context, and probably
> doesn't particularly want to, has to see them in the middle of a
> large thread on -dev. I really cannot see a single reason why starting
> this thread is/was a remotely good idea.

He thought that some good could have come from it, obviously.

Was your behaviour wrong? Not particularly. Was it in bad taste?
Definitely. Could his email to the list stop others from making the same
mistakes? Hopefully.

Seems simple to me...
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2 [ In reply to ]

Jun 5, 2007, 2:13 PM

Post #21 of 68 (990 views)

On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 09:44:23PM +0100, Roy Bamford wrote:
> Please step back, take a deep breath and avoid posting to this thread
> for 24 hours.

Folks, while we're cutting some slack to the people replying
somewhere else in the thread because they may not have gotten the mail
by Roy yet (and that time frame should be over any time now, too),
replying to this mail clearly shows you are not following our call to
do so.

So far we have temporarily suspended both ciaran's and geoman's account
from posting and encourage everyone to do as Roy initially suggested.

cheers,
Wernfried

--
Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne (at) gentoo.org
http://forums.gentoo.org || http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/proctors/
forum-mods (at) gentoo.org || proctors (at) gentoo.org
#gentoo-forums || #gentoo-proctors (freenode)

Re: Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2 [ In reply to ]

ferdy at gentoo

Jun 5, 2007, 2:22 PM

Post #22 of 68 (992 views)

On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 11:13:48PM +0200, Wernfried Haas wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 09:44:23PM +0100, Roy Bamford wrote:
> > Please step back, take a deep breath and avoid posting to this thread
> > for 24 hours.
>
> Folks, while we're cutting some slack to the people replying
> somewhere else in the thread because they may not have gotten the mail
> by Roy yet (and that time frame should be over any time now, too),
> replying to this mail clearly shows you are not following our call to
> do so.
>
> So far we have temporarily suspended both ciaran's and geoman's account
> from posting and encourage everyone to do as Roy initially suggested.

You've just done what?

I'm waiting for someone to ban the person that STARTED this fucking
mess...

Common sense? Where the hell are you?

- ferdy

oh wait... this might get me banned now...

--
Fernando J. Pereda Garcimartín
20BB BDC3 761A 4781 E6ED ED0B 0A48 5B0C 60BD 28D4

Re: Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2 [ In reply to ]

iluxa at gentoo

Jun 5, 2007, 2:24 PM

Post #23 of 68 (992 views)

Way to go Proctors! I think you just tipped few more people over the edge.

Wernfried Haas wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 09:44:23PM +0100, Roy Bamford wrote:
>
>> Please step back, take a deep breath and avoid posting to this thread
>> for 24 hours.
>>
>
> Folks, while we're cutting some slack to the people replying
> somewhere else in the thread because they may not have gotten the mail
> by Roy yet (and that time frame should be over any time now, too),
> replying to this mail clearly shows you are not following our call to
> do so.
>
> So far we have temporarily suspended both ciaran's and geoman's account
> from posting and encourage everyone to do as Roy initially suggested.
>
> cheers,
> Wernfried
>
>

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2 [ In reply to ]

peper at gentoo

Jun 5, 2007, 2:38 PM

Post #24 of 68 (993 views)

On Tuesday 05 of June 2007 23:13:48 Wernfried Haas wrote:
> So far we have temporarily suspended both ciaran's and geoman's account
> from posting and encourage everyone to do as Roy initially suggested.

Haven't roy just said that jokes "should normally be avoided in international
forums such as are provided by Gentoo."?

--
Best Regards,
Piotr JaroszyÅ„ski
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2 [ In reply to ]

truedfx at gentoo

Jun 5, 2007, 2:39 PM

Post #25 of 68 (989 views)

On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 11:13:25PM +0200, Wernfried Haas wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 09:44:23PM +0100, Roy Bamford wrote:
> > Please step back, take a deep breath and avoid posting to this thread
> > for 24 hours.
>
> Folks, while we're cutting some slack to the people replying
> somewhere else in the thread because they may not have gotten the mail
> by Roy yet (and that time frame should be over any time now, too),
> replying to this mail clearly shows you are not following our call to
> do so.
>
> So far we have temporarily suspended both ciaran's and geoman's account
> from posting and encourage everyone to do as Roy initially suggested.

Please also suspend your own account. You're clearly replying to Roy's
message. It doesn't matter that you're not contributing to the original
discussion, because after Roy's message, neither did Ciaran. Feel free
to suspend my account as well.
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