Mailing List Archive: Little respect towards Daniel please

Little respect towards Daniel please

wltjr at gentoo

Mar 4, 2007, 12:15 PM

Post #1 of 59 (1886 views)

I hope this does not generate many if any replies.

Some might seen Daniel as a deserter, sell out for leaving much less
going to work for M$, and so on. Granted while he was gone, many things
have changed. I am sure he is trying to catch up on all that. I am also
sure he is appreciative and thankful for all those who kept Gentoo going
and moving forward in his absence.

But let us all not forget that just like with Linus, without Daniel and
his past efforts there would be no Gentoo. In that regard I think we all
owe him a level of professional respect and politeness. Which we all
also owe each other as well.

Granted he like us all is human, and we all make mistakes. No one of use
knows everything about all things, past, present, and future. I believe
he has good intentions with his return to the project.

I think to a certain extend we should follow his lead, because
indirectly we already are. We are working on a project he started, under
foundations, and other things that were mostly put into place by him.

So I we can cut him some slack, and we should all have some level of
respect, at least in public, towards the father, creator, and founder of
Gentoo.

IMHO, from a rather new dev ~7months. So please do not set me on fire or
stake me.

--
William L. Thomson Jr.
Gentoo/Java

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

ciaranm at ciaranm

Mar 4, 2007, 12:23 PM

Post #2 of 59 (1884 views)

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:15:36 -0500 "William L. Thomson Jr."
<wltjr@gentoo.org> wrote:
> So I we can cut him some slack, and we should all have some level of
> respect, at least in public, towards the father, creator, and founder
> of Gentoo.

What kind of response do you think anyone else would have received had
they started repeatedly attacking a project when they didn't even know
what that project was, repeatedly tried to interfere with the
management of a project when they don't know who is involved with or
managing said project, repeatedly posted all kinds of outright lies
after having been told that something was untrue and repeatedly resorted
to ad hominem attacks in a technical discussion?

I'd say that, all things considered, people are showing Daniel an awful
lot of respect...

--
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail : ciaranm at ciaranm.org
Web : http://ciaranm.org/
Paludis, the secure package manager : http://paludis.pioto.org/

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

aslanidis at gmail

Mar 4, 2007, 12:32 PM

Post #3 of 59 (1880 views)

Maybe if Ciaran recognized his past faults, begged pardon and promised
to be kinder from now and on, everything would be easier for everyone,
everything would calm down.

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:15:36 -0500 "William L. Thomson Jr."
> <wltjr@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> So I we can cut him some slack, and we should all have some level of
>> respect, at least in public, towards the father, creator, and founder
>> of Gentoo.
>
> What kind of response do you think anyone else would have received had
> they started repeatedly attacking a project when they didn't even know
> what that project was, repeatedly tried to interfere with the
> management of a project when they don't know who is involved with or
> managing said project, repeatedly posted all kinds of outright lies
> after having been told that something was untrue and repeatedly resorted
> to ad hominem attacks in a technical discussion?
>
> I'd say that, all things considered, people are showing Daniel an awful
> lot of respect...
>
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

wltjr at gentoo

Mar 4, 2007, 12:45 PM

Post #4 of 59 (1881 views)

On Sun, 2007-03-04 at 19:23 +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
>
> What kind of response do you think anyone else would have received had
> they started repeatedly attacking a project when they didn't even know
> what that project was, repeatedly tried to interfere with the
> management of a project when they don't know who is involved with or
> managing said project, repeatedly posted all kinds of outright lies
> after having been told that something was untrue and repeatedly resorted
> to ad hominem attacks in a technical discussion?

Would that project even exist if it weren't for Daniel's past efforts
and contributions?

But I do agree, one should try to be as informed as possible on any
given topic before voicing an opinion. Which I might very well be guilty
of right now ;)

However if I view someones comments as uninformed, instead of stating
that. I try to provide information to inform them, and let them come to
the realization on their own, that they were wrong.

--
William L. Thomson Jr.
Gentoo/Java

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

vapier at gentoo

Mar 4, 2007, 1:11 PM

Post #5 of 59 (1886 views)

On Sunday 04 March 2007, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> Would that project even exist if it weren't for Daniel's past efforts
> and contributions?

if you want to go that route, why dont we all get down on our knees and praise
the GNU project for everything they've done, over and over again (which they
would like you to do)

or, why dont we simply recognize the fact that the only reason anything
progresses is because we're all standing on the shoulders of someone else
-mike

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

drobbins.daniel at gmail

Mar 4, 2007, 1:12 PM

Post #6 of 59 (1880 views)

Will,

I appreciate the spirit of what you posted, but I want to be clear
that I do not expect or request any special treatment, so I don't
agree with you.

We should *always* have some level of respect of gentoo-dev,
regardless of who we're talking to.

-Daniel

On 3/4/07, William L. Thomson Jr. <wltjr@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I hope this does not generate many if any replies.
>
> Some might seen Daniel as a deserter, sell out for leaving much less
> going to work for M$, and so on. Granted while he was gone, many things
> have changed. I am sure he is trying to catch up on all that. I am also
> sure he is appreciative and thankful for all those who kept Gentoo going
> and moving forward in his absence.
>
> But let us all not forget that just like with Linus, without Daniel and
> his past efforts there would be no Gentoo. In that regard I think we all
> owe him a level of professional respect and politeness. Which we all
> also owe each other as well.
>
> Granted he like us all is human, and we all make mistakes. No one of use
> knows everything about all things, past, present, and future. I believe
> he has good intentions with his return to the project.
>
> I think to a certain extend we should follow his lead, because
> indirectly we already are. We are working on a project he started, under
> foundations, and other things that were mostly put into place by him.
>
> So I we can cut him some slack, and we should all have some level of
> respect, at least in public, towards the father, creator, and founder of
> Gentoo.
>
> IMHO, from a rather new dev ~7months. So please do not set me on fire or
> stake me.
>
> --
> William L. Thomson Jr.
> Gentoo/Java
>
>
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

drobbins.daniel at gmail

Mar 4, 2007, 1:14 PM

Post #7 of 59 (1882 views)

I never said I was informed :)

It was helpful to have some things confirmed by people other than Ciaran.

-Daniel

On 3/4/07, William L. Thomson Jr. <wltjr@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-03-04 at 19:23 +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> >
> > What kind of response do you think anyone else would have received had
> > they started repeatedly attacking a project when they didn't even know
> > what that project was, repeatedly tried to interfere with the
> > management of a project when they don't know who is involved with or
> > managing said project, repeatedly posted all kinds of outright lies
> > after having been told that something was untrue and repeatedly resorted
> > to ad hominem attacks in a technical discussion?
>
> Would that project even exist if it weren't for Daniel's past efforts
> and contributions?
>
> But I do agree, one should try to be as informed as possible on any
> given topic before voicing an opinion. Which I might very well be guilty
> of right now ;)
>
> However if I view someones comments as uninformed, instead of stating
> that. I try to provide information to inform them, and let them come to
> the realization on their own, that they were wrong.
>
> --
> William L. Thomson Jr.
> Gentoo/Java
>
>
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

drobbins.daniel at gmail

Mar 4, 2007, 1:15 PM

Post #8 of 59 (1879 views)

I agree, the post was well intentioned but as I said before I can't
agree with what was suggested.

On 3/4/07, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Sunday 04 March 2007, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> > Would that project even exist if it weren't for Daniel's past efforts
> > and contributions?
>
> if you want to go that route, why dont we all get down on our knees and praise
> the GNU project for everything they've done, over and over again (which they
> would like you to do)
>
> or, why dont we simply recognize the fact that the only reason anything
> progresses is because we're all standing on the shoulders of someone else
> -mike
>
>
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

drobbins.daniel at gmail

Mar 4, 2007, 1:17 PM

Post #9 of 59 (1882 views)

Yep, I agree. Thanks everyone for being tolerant of my confusion and
disruption while I look for a way to remove Ciaran from gentoo-dev.

-Daniel

On 3/4/07, Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@ciaranm.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:15:36 -0500 "William L. Thomson Jr."
> <wltjr@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > So I we can cut him some slack, and we should all have some level of
> > respect, at least in public, towards the father, creator, and founder
> > of Gentoo.
>
> What kind of response do you think anyone else would have received had
> they started repeatedly attacking a project when they didn't even know
> what that project was, repeatedly tried to interfere with the
> management of a project when they don't know who is involved with or
> managing said project, repeatedly posted all kinds of outright lies
> after having been told that something was untrue and repeatedly resorted
> to ad hominem attacks in a technical discussion?
>
> I'd say that, all things considered, people are showing Daniel an awful
> lot of respect...
>
> --
> Ciaran McCreesh
> Mail : ciaranm at ciaranm.org
> Web : http://ciaranm.org/
> Paludis, the secure package manager : http://paludis.pioto.org/
>
>
>
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

ciaranm at ciaranm

Mar 4, 2007, 1:26 PM

Post #10 of 59 (1883 views)

On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:14:14 -0700 "Daniel Robbins"
<drobbins.daniel@gmail.com> wrote:
> It was helpful to have some things confirmed by people other than
> Ciaran.

So now you're calling me a liar too? If you meant something else by
that remark, please explain, because I'm having a very hard time coming
up with an interpretation that means anything else.

--
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail : ciaranm at ciaranm.org
Web : http://ciaranm.org/
Paludis, the secure package manager : http://paludis.pioto.org/

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

ferdy at gentoo

Mar 4, 2007, 1:36 PM

Post #11 of 59 (1882 views)

On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 01:17:03PM -0700, Daniel Robbins wrote:
> Yep, I agree. Thanks everyone for being tolerant of my confusion and
> disruption while I look for a way to remove Ciaran from gentoo-dev.

Stop it. You don't like him, fine. I personally don't like you, no
problem. And many people hate me, good too.

Please go back to your hacking and improve Gentoo. You just can't
'remove Ciaran from gentoo-dev', live with it, or leave Gentoo if you
don't like the way we do things now.

- ferdy

--
Fernando J. Pereda Garcimartín
Gentoo Developer (Alpha,net-mail,mutt,git)
20BB BDC3 761A 4781 E6ED ED0B 0A48 5B0C 60BD 28D4

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

drobbins.daniel at gmail

Mar 4, 2007, 1:44 PM

Post #12 of 59 (1882 views)

That's actually a very good idea. I definitely don't want to be
associated with this project.

-Daniel

On 3/4/07, Fernando J. Pereda <ferdy@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 01:17:03PM -0700, Daniel Robbins wrote:
> > Yep, I agree. Thanks everyone for being tolerant of my confusion and
> > disruption while I look for a way to remove Ciaran from gentoo-dev.
>
> Stop it. You don't like him, fine. I personally don't like you, no
> problem. And many people hate me, good too.
>
> Please go back to your hacking and improve Gentoo. You just can't
> 'remove Ciaran from gentoo-dev', live with it, or leave Gentoo if you
> don't like the way we do things now.
>
> - ferdy
>
> --
> Fernando J. Pereda Garcimartín
> Gentoo Developer (Alpha,net-mail,mutt,git)
> 20BB BDC3 761A 4781 E6ED ED0B 0A48 5B0C 60BD 28D4
>
>
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

drobbins.daniel at gmail

Mar 4, 2007, 1:46 PM

Post #13 of 59 (1880 views)

C'mon, I am not calling you a liar. I just don't always take
everything you say at face value. Call it a trust issue.

-Daniel

On 3/4/07, Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@ciaranm.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:14:14 -0700 "Daniel Robbins"
> <drobbins.daniel@gmail.com> wrote:
> > It was helpful to have some things confirmed by people other than
> > Ciaran.
>
> So now you're calling me a liar too? If you meant something else by
> that remark, please explain, because I'm having a very hard time coming
> up with an interpretation that means anything else.
>
> --
> Ciaran McCreesh
> Mail : ciaranm at ciaranm.org
> Web : http://ciaranm.org/
> Paludis, the secure package manager : http://paludis.pioto.org/
>
>
>
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

kloeri at gentoo

Mar 4, 2007, 1:55 PM

Post #14 of 59 (1882 views)

On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 01:46:38PM -0700, Daniel Robbins wrote:
> C'mon, I am not calling you a liar. I just don't always take
> everything you say at face value. Call it a trust issue.
>
> -Daniel
>
> On 3/4/07, Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@ciaranm.org> wrote:
> >On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:14:14 -0700 "Daniel Robbins"
> ><drobbins.daniel@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> It was helpful to have some things confirmed by people other than
> >> Ciaran.
> >
> >So now you're calling me a liar too? If you meant something else by
> >that remark, please explain, because I'm having a very hard time coming
> >up with an interpretation that means anything else.
> >
Daniel, please stop top posting. It's a terribly bad habbit that I guess
you picked up from the horrible MS Outlook client :P

That said, could you both (Daniel + Ciaran) please stop this fight? It's
not getting us anywhere at all and just adds to the frustrations many
people currently feel.

Regards,
Bryan Ã˜stergaard
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

iluxa at gentoo

Mar 4, 2007, 1:58 PM

Post #15 of 59 (1881 views)

Daniel Robbins wrote:
> Yep, I agree. Thanks everyone for being tolerant of my confusion and
> disruption while I look for a way to remove Ciaran from gentoo-dev.
Daniel,

Are you saying that all of your comments regarding PMS
were made solely for the purpose of removing Ciaran from
the gentoo-dev mailing list?

--
Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
Total Knowledge. CTO
http://www.total-knowledge.com

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

Mar 4, 2007, 1:59 PM

Post #16 of 59 (1885 views)

Fernando J. Pereda wrote:
> Please go back to your hacking and improve Gentoo. You just can't
> 'remove Ciaran from gentoo-dev', live with it, or leave Gentoo if you
> don't like the way we do things now.

I agree. Daniel, you need to accept the fact that you no longer have the
power to do any idiotic thing you want anymore.

--
David Shakaryan
GnuPG Public Key: 0x4B8FE14B

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

lionel-dev at bouton

Mar 4, 2007, 2:05 PM

Post #17 of 59 (1881 views)

Ciaran McCreesh wrote the following on 04.03.2007 21:26 :
> On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:14:14 -0700 "Daniel Robbins"
> <drobbins.daniel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It was helpful to have some things confirmed by people other than
>> Ciaran.
>>
>
> So now you're calling me a liar too? [...]
>
>

I followed this "discussion" for what seems ages now. I'm not a dev,
just a user a little sad with the mood on gentoo-dev so feel free to
ignore me...
Ciaran, you're obviously talented and don't mean harm but seriously you
should calm down.

Trust is something you build. If I'm not mistaken, Daniel didn't have
time to build trust in you yet. Checking with others what you say is a
way to build (or not) trust in you so you shouldn't take offense.

Something people should read more often (and Ciaran is not the only one
that can benefit from it, most of passionate people tend to drown
themselves into flamewars, human nature I guess):
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt

My 2 cents,

Lionel.
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

drobbins.daniel at gmail

Mar 4, 2007, 2:15 PM

Post #18 of 59 (1881 views)

No, I did not say that _all_ of my comments were solely for that
purpose. However, I personally would not stay subscribed to gentoo-dev
with Ciaran on the list. I think there are others who have the same
perspective and tend to either ignore -dev or have unsubscribed.
Ciaran is also clearly wasting a lot of his own time, even before my
stream of posts, so I don't consider removing him from the list as
being bad for him *or* Gentoo.

Just as a note, I've resigned as a Gentoo dev so I'm going to at some
point today unsubscribe from -dev and stop replying to -dev emails.

-Daniel

On 3/4/07, Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh <iluxa@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Daniel Robbins wrote:
> > Yep, I agree. Thanks everyone for being tolerant of my confusion and
> > disruption while I look for a way to remove Ciaran from gentoo-dev.
> Daniel,
>
> Are you saying that all of your comments regarding PMS
> were made solely for the purpose of removing Ciaran from
> the gentoo-dev mailing list?
>
> --
> Ilya A. Volynets-Evenbakh
> Total Knowledge. CTO
> http://www.total-knowledge.com
>
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

stuart.herbert at gmail

Mar 4, 2007, 2:51 PM

Post #19 of 59 (1883 views)

Hi Daniel,

On 3/4/07, Daniel Robbins <drobbins.daniel@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just as a note, I've resigned as a Gentoo dev so I'm going to at some
> point today unsubscribe from -dev and stop replying to -dev emails.
>
> -Daniel

Thanks for trying, but Gentoo just has too many folks who don't
understand the issue with the behaviour of folks like Ciaran. Our
recruitment was too focused on technical skills; we never focused on
recruitment based around a shared culture, and I honestly think it's
too late now (which is why I quit).

What do you plan on doing next with your time?

Best regards,
Stu
--
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

drobbins.daniel at gmail

Mar 4, 2007, 2:58 PM

Post #20 of 59 (1882 views)

Hi Stu,

I think you're right regarding the current lack of "shared culture,"
as you put it, and the lack of will to do anything about it.

As for what I'm doing next with my time, let me just say that Ciaran
need not fear for his personal safety :) Other than that, we will see.
I'm open to ideas.

-Daniel

On 3/4/07, Stuart Herbert <stuart.herbert@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> On 3/4/07, Daniel Robbins <drobbins.daniel@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Just as a note, I've resigned as a Gentoo dev so I'm going to at some
> > point today unsubscribe from -dev and stop replying to -dev emails.
> >
> > -Daniel
>
> Thanks for trying, but Gentoo just has too many folks who don't
> understand the issue with the behaviour of folks like Ciaran. Our
> recruitment was too focused on technical skills; we never focused on
> recruitment based around a shared culture, and I honestly think it's
> too late now (which is why I quit).
>
> What do you plan on doing next with your time?
>
> Best regards,
> Stu
> --
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

eroyf at gentoo

Mar 4, 2007, 3:06 PM

Post #21 of 59 (1882 views)

On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 09:51:34PM +0000, Stuart Herbert wrote:
> What do you plan on doing next with your time?

How cute, but please take this in private and not in the list. Honestly,
we do not care...

--
Alexander FÃ¦rÃ¸y
Bugday Lead
Alpha/IA64/MIPS Architecture Teams
User Relations, Quality Assurance

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

jakub at gentoo

Mar 4, 2007, 3:16 PM

Post #22 of 59 (1893 views)

Alexander FÃ¦rÃ¸y napsal(a):
> On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 09:51:34PM +0000, Stuart Herbert wrote:
>> What do you plan on doing next with your time?
>
> How cute, but please take this in private and not in the list. Honestly,
> we do not care...

I certainly do care - more than I could ever care about all the
'valuable input' provided so kindly here by ciaranm, which is so
valuable that it has cost us two developers in two days.

--
Best regards,

Jakub Moc
mailto:jakub@gentoo.org
GPG signature:
http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCEBA3D9E
Primary key fingerprint: D2D7 933C 9BA1 C95B 2C95 B30F 8717 D5FD CEBA
3D9E

... still no signature ;)

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

lu_zero at gentoo

Mar 4, 2007, 3:23 PM

Post #23 of 59 (1880 views)

Jakub Moc wrote:
> I certainly do care - more than I could ever care about all the
> 'valuable input' provided so kindly here by ciaranm, which is so
> valuable that it has cost us two developers in two days.

Sigh

ok, reality check:

- we lost some people
- ciaranm lately didn't much to be hated

If the world would be perfect the whole s/deadline/timeline issue would
be solved in 2 emails

- one in which ciaranm asked which kind of deadline would be discussed
since spb is quite busy in RL and the rest of the team working on the
first draft too

- a reply in which the council would clarify that what it will be
discussed is a tentative timeline since the project is deemed quite
important.

Now, this isn't the perfect world, but a little understanding could help
avoiding long threads and sorrow.

lu

--

Luca Barbato

Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

drobbins.daniel at gmail

Mar 4, 2007, 3:27 PM

Post #24 of 59 (1880 views)

Be careful, I'm now a Gentoo user, and you're on userrel. Userrel
shouldn't launch gratuitious insults at Gentoo users. Thank you for
not caring.

-Daniel

On 3/4/07, Alexander Færøy <eroyf@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 09:51:34PM +0000, Stuart Herbert wrote:
> > What do you plan on doing next with your time?
>
> How cute, but please take this in private and not in the list. Honestly,
> we do not care...
>
> --
> Alexander Færøy
> Bugday Lead
> Alpha/IA64/MIPS Architecture Teams
> User Relations, Quality Assurance
>
>
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: Little respect towards Daniel please [ In reply to ]

kloeri at gentoo

Mar 4, 2007, 3:28 PM

Post #25 of 59 (1879 views)

On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 11:16:47PM +0100, Jakub Moc wrote:
> Alexander FÃ¦rÃ¸y napsal(a):
> >On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 09:51:34PM +0000, Stuart Herbert wrote:
> >>What do you plan on doing next with your time?
> >
> >How cute, but please take this in private and not in the list. Honestly,
> >we do not care...
>
> I certainly do care - more than I could ever care about all the
> 'valuable input' provided so kindly here by ciaranm, which is so
> valuable that it has cost us two developers in two days.
>
Jakub, please stop. While I'm sure many of us (myself included) is
interested in what Daniel is going to do in the future a development
list isn't the place.

Instead, I'm looking forward to reading about it on Daniels blog (Yeah,
I'm assuming he's going to blog about it).

Regards,
Bryan Ã˜stergaard
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list