Mailing List Archive

On Saturday 18 June 2005 12:22 am, Andrew Muraco wrote:
> Linux-2.6.12 is officially out according to kernel.org
> Just an FYI for you all, and the vanilla-sources maintainers :)

/me looks around ... nope, this doesnt look like bugs.gentoo.org to me ...
-mike
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Mike Frysinger wrote:

>On Saturday 18 June 2005 12:22 am, Andrew Muraco wrote:
>
>
>>Linux-2.6.12 is officially out according to kernel.org
>>Just an FYI for you all, and the vanilla-sources maintainers :)
>>
>>
>
>/me looks around ... nope, this doesnt look like bugs.gentoo.org to me ...
>-mike
>
>
Im not expecting it to be added to the tree that quickly it hasnt even
been officially announced, i just wanted to get an idea of what it has
to offer once the articles start poping up :-P

Regards,
Andrew Muraco
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 00:52:55 -0400
Andrew Muraco <tuxp3@leetworks.com> wrote:

> Im not expecting it to be added to the tree that quickly it hasnt even
> been officially announced, i just wanted to get an idea of what it has
> to offer once the articles start poping up :-P

The ChangeLog[1] is your friend. Live it, love it, use it!

[1] - http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/ChangeLog-2.6.12

Cheers,
--
Jason Wever
Gentoo/Sparc Team Co-Lead

On Saturday 18 June 2005 13:52, Andrew Muraco wrote:
> Mike Frysinger wrote:
> >On Saturday 18 June 2005 12:22 am, Andrew Muraco wrote:
> >>Linux-2.6.12 is officially out according to kernel.org
> >>Just an FYI for you all, and the vanilla-sources maintainers :)
> >
> >/me looks around ... nope, this doesnt look like bugs.gentoo.org to me ...
> >-mike
>
> Im not expecting it to be added to the tree that quickly it hasnt even
> been officially announced, i just wanted to get an idea of what it has
> to offer once the articles start poping up :-P

As far as I know, the only official announcement is the one that goes out on
LKML. kernel.org is then updated some time after that. The ebuild for the
kernel is already in the tree and, according to posts I read on gentoo-user,
was in the tree before kernel.org was updated.

Regards,
Jason Stubbs

Jason Stubbs wrote:

>On Saturday 18 June 2005 13:52, Andrew Muraco wrote:
>
>
>>Mike Frysinger wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Saturday 18 June 2005 12:22 am, Andrew Muraco wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Linux-2.6.12 is officially out according to kernel.org
>>>>Just an FYI for you all, and the vanilla-sources maintainers :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>/me looks around ... nope, this doesnt look like bugs.gentoo.org to me ...
>>>-mike
>>>
>>>
>>Im not expecting it to be added to the tree that quickly it hasnt even
>>been officially announced, i just wanted to get an idea of what it has
>>to offer once the articles start poping up :-P
>>
>>
>
>As far as I know, the only official announcement is the one that goes out on
>LKML. kernel.org is then updated some time after that. The ebuild for the
>kernel is already in the tree and, according to posts I read on gentoo-user,
>was in the tree before kernel.org was updated.
>
>Regards,
>Jason Stubbs
>
>
LKML announcement
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/6/18/2/index.html

doesnt seem to be that specific about the major changes that were
supposed to happen..
reiser4, pie/ssp hardened, etc
oh well, maybe 2.6.13 ...

Regards,
Andrew Muraco
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

On Saturday 18 June 2005 01:53 am, Andrew Muraco wrote:
> reiser4, pie/ssp hardened, etc

what would the mainline kernel care about ssp ?
-mike
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Jason Wever wrote:
>
> The ChangeLog[1] is your friend. Live it, love it, use it!
>
> [1] - http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/ChangeLog-2.6.12

Thankfully, I see no mention of reiserfs4 in it. So we may yet be spared
another release before the post-processed organic material hits the proverbial
high-speed turbine.

Yeah, I'll probably get flamed for this, but I <3 my ext3 :P


--Kumba

--
Gentoo/MIPS Team Lead
Gentoo Foundation Board of Trustees

"Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands
do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere." --Elrond
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Kumba wrote:

> Jason Wever wrote:
>
>>
>> The ChangeLog[1] is your friend. Live it, love it, use it!
>>
>> [1] - http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/ChangeLog-2.6.12
>
>
> Thankfully, I see no mention of reiserfs4 in it. So we may yet be
> spared another release before the post-processed organic material
> hits the proverbial high-speed turbine.
>
> Yeah, I'll probably get flamed for this, but I <3 my ext3 :P
>
>
> --Kumba
>
keep your wity comments to yourself -lol i dont think ext3 is going
anywhere for a long time.. reiserfs4 will merely be an option for
those of us that like post-proscessed organic material..

Andrew Muraco

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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Mike Frysinger wrote:

>On Saturday 18 June 2005 01:53 am, Andrew Muraco wrote:
>
>
>>reiser4, pie/ssp hardened, etc
>>
>>
>
>what would the mainline kernel care about ssp ?
>-mike
>
>
actually i dont know if they were talking about ssp/pie but the correct
term is
SELinux (known to gentooers as hardened) and trusted computing are also
things that were reported to be up for mainline kernel
http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;669959914;fp;16;fpid;0

http://kerneltrap.org/node/3736 -- reiserfs4 article

also a few other things are mentioned in article one, but need not
mention them here, for they could've very well made it into the kernel
(i didnt look too throughly)

Regards,
Andrew Muraco
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Andrew Muraco wrote:
>
>
> keep your wity comments to yourself -lol i dont think ext3 is going
> anywhere for a long time..

I usually think this is why alot of people still rely on it. It's solid, and
doesn't change very often, so people working in environments that require solid
stability on Linux likely go with this.


> reiserfs4 will merely be an option for
> those of us that like post-proscessed organic material..

Just remember, bugs in vanilla-sources go here: http://bugzilla.kernel.org/

Any other -sources buggers up, try a variant of vanilla-sources to see if the
problem exists there. If it does fire the bug upstream to the mainline kernel
devs. If not, might be a patch we added in.

I'm just stating this, because once reiserfs4 goes mainline (I believe it's in
-mm currently), we are bound to have users hitting various bumps and ruts in the
road using it, and if they file bugs to our bugzilla that aren't related to
patches we produce, then they'll likely wind up closed as invalid and such.
This saves the users time, and may get them the answers they seek (or at least a
resolution of some kind). It also saves our bug-wranglers time by now having to
deal with more invalid bugs.


--Kumba

--
Gentoo/MIPS Team Lead
Gentoo Foundation Board of Trustees

"Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands
do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere." --Elrond
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

On Saturday 18 June 2005 02:21 am, Andrew Muraco wrote:
> Mike Frysinger wrote:
> >On Saturday 18 June 2005 01:53 am, Andrew Muraco wrote:
> >>reiser4, pie/ssp hardened, etc
> >
> >what would the mainline kernel care about ssp ?
> >-mike
>
> actually i dont know if they were talking about ssp/pie but the correct
> term is SELinux

ssp/pie is very different from selinux
-mike
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Mike Frysinger wrote:

>On Saturday 18 June 2005 02:21 am, Andrew Muraco wrote:
>
>
>>Mike Frysinger wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Saturday 18 June 2005 01:53 am, Andrew Muraco wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>reiser4, pie/ssp hardened, etc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>what would the mainline kernel care about ssp ?
>>>-mike
>>>
>>>
>>actually i dont know if they were talking about ssp/pie but the correct
>>term is SELinux
>>
>>
>
>ssp/pie is very different from selinux
>-mike
>
>
Yea... but either way i dont know if the SELinux stuff ended up in
there.. (thats what i meant initally-- i had pie/ssp on the mind for
some reason - ignore that..)
time for bed for me - i have work tommorrow, but hopefully i will
thinking clearer tommorrow.

Regards,
Andrew Muraco
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Andrew Muraco wrote:
> actually i dont know if they were talking about ssp/pie but the correct
> term is
> SELinux (known to gentooers as hardened) and trusted computing are also
> things that were reported to be up for mainline kernel
> http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;669959914;fp;16;fpid;0

That article is wrong and this was discussed a lot at the time when it was
published.

The kernel development process is very open, and Linus stops accepting
feature-style patches after about -rc3. So if you had been keeping up with the
-rc releases in the last month or so, you'd know that reiser4 wasnt going to
be included for 2.6.12 final.

Daniel
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Kumba wrote:

> I'm just stating this, because once reiserfs4 goes mainline (I believe
> it's in -mm currently), we are bound to have users hitting various bumps
> and ruts in the road using it, and if they file bugs to our bugzilla
> that aren't related to patches we produce, then they'll likely wind up
> closed as invalid and such. This saves the users time, and may get them
> the answers they seek (or at least a resolution of some kind). It also
> saves our bug-wranglers time by now having to deal with more invalid bugs.
>

We can always patch the problem in the g-s ^^

Given reiserfs4 is around for enough time and lots of brave users tested
it, it MAY be not so unstable. (still I like jfs and xfs more, and I use
them just for transient data (large video and image processing tests and
so on))

--

Luca Barbato

Gentoo/linux Developer Gentoo/PPC Operational Leader
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

On Saturday 18 June 2005 19:27, Luca Barbato wrote:
> Given reiserfs4 is around for enough time and lots of brave users tested
> it, it MAY be not so unstable.

On Saturday 18 June 2005 02:30, E.Gryaznova wrote:
> Reiser4 format was changed in reiser4-5 patch for 2.6.11, reiser4progs
> for this format are not ready yet.

Perhaps not ;)

Regards,
Jason Stubbs

Andrew Muraco wrote:

>Linux-2.6.12 is officially out according to kernel.org
>I have not tried this, I'm waiting on an official announcement on
>slashdot or some other similar news site with a list of the major
>changes between 2.6.11 and 2.6.12 -- i heard that it might have
>reiser4 stock, but i can not confirm that.
>Just an FYI for you all, and the vanilla-sources maintainers :)
>
>post back any links to any articles you see about this release (not -rc)
>
>Thanks,
>Andrew Muraco
>
>
>
I'd certainly consider kerenel.org to be more of an officialy
announcement than slashdot.org There should also be a changelog on
kernel.org indicating the changes.

--

Omkhar Arasaratnam - Gentoo PPC64 Developer
omkhar@gentoo.org - http://dev.gentoo.org/~omkhar
Gentoo Linux / PPC64 Linux: http://ppc64.gentoo.org

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Luca Barbato wrote:

>Kumba wrote:
>
>
>
>>I'm just stating this, because once reiserfs4 goes mainline (I believe
>>it's in -mm currently), we are bound to have users hitting various bumps
>>and ruts in the road using it, and if they file bugs to our bugzilla
>>that aren't related to patches we produce, then they'll likely wind up
>>closed as invalid and such. This saves the users time, and may get them
>>the answers they seek (or at least a resolution of some kind). It also
>>saves our bug-wranglers time by now having to deal with more invalid bugs.
>>
>>
>>
>
>We can always patch the problem in the g-s ^^
>
>Given reiserfs4 is around for enough time and lots of brave users tested
>it, it MAY be not so unstable. (still I like jfs and xfs more, and I use
>them just for transient data (large video and image processing tests and
>so on))
>
>
>
As a ppc64 arch and can officially state that reiser4fs is very unstable
under ppc64 as of the last time I checked, which was some where in the
2.6.12rc cycle plus mm patch.

That said, we're not RedHat. We ship as MANY features as we can and let
the user decide. I agree that it is valuable to get reiser4 testing done
up front. Eventually - some people will use it. Last I checked "I think
$FOO is stupid" wasn't a valid closure code in bugzilla ;-)


--

Omkhar Arasaratnam - Gentoo PPC64 Developer
omkhar@gentoo.org - http://dev.gentoo.org/~omkhar
Gentoo Linux / PPC64 Linux: http://ppc64.gentoo.org

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

On Sat, 2005-06-18 at 02:31 -0400, Andrew Muraco wrote:
>
> Mike Frysinger wrote:
>
> >On Saturday 18 June 2005 02:21 am, Andrew Muraco wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Mike Frysinger wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>On Saturday 18 June 2005 01:53 am, Andrew Muraco wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>reiser4, pie/ssp hardened, etc
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>what would the mainline kernel care about ssp ?
> >>>-mike
> >>>
> >>>
> >>actually i dont know if they were talking about ssp/pie but the correct
> >>term is SELinux
> >>
> >>
> >
> >ssp/pie is very different from selinux
> >-mike
> >
> >
> Yea... but either way i dont know if the SELinux stuff ended up in
> there.. (thats what i meant initally-- i had pie/ssp on the mind for
> some reason - ignore that..)
> time for bed for me - i have work tommorrow, but hopefully i will
> thinking clearer tommorrow.

SELinux has been integrated in mainline since 2.6.0-test3. A few new
features were added in 2.6.12 (reworked MLS, and a few other bits).

--
Chris PeBenito
<pebenito@gentoo.org>
Developer,
Hardened Gentoo Linux
Embedded Gentoo Linux

Public Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xE6AF9243
Key fingerprint = B0E6 877A 883F A57A 8E6A CB00 BC8E E42D E6AF 9243

Omkhar Arasaratnam wrote:
> That said, we're not RedHat. We ship as MANY features as we can and let
> the user decide. I agree that it is valuable to get reiser4 testing done
> up front. Eventually - some people will use it. Last I checked "I think
> $FOO is stupid" wasn't a valid closure code in bugzilla ;-)

Then you have different views from the kernel project :)

We and try and make our kernel (gentoo-sources) _more_ stable than the
official Linux releases. We mainly stick to bug fixes decreed worthy by the
upstream developers, etc. We never include patches when we know of problems
that they will introduce.

Daniel
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

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Hash: SHA1



Daniel Drake wrote:

>Omkhar Arasaratnam wrote:
>
>>That said, we're not RedHat. We ship as MANY features as we can and let
>>the user decide. I agree that it is valuable to get reiser4 testing done
>>up front. Eventually - some people will use it. Last I checked "I think
>>$FOO is stupid" wasn't a valid closure code in bugzilla ;-)
>
>
>Then you have different views from the kernel project :)
>
>We and try and make our kernel (gentoo-sources) _more_ stable than the
>official Linux releases. We mainly stick to bug fixes decreed worthy by the
>upstream developers, etc. We never include patches when we know of problems
>that they will introduce.
>
>Daniel

i know this has been said before many many times, but i really can't
wait until i can see reiserfs4 in a "stable" kernel (vanilla or
gentoo) but i doubt that the gentoo-sources crew is going to budge
[whining]please.. USE flag'd reiser4? please pretty please[/whinning]

Anyways, I can understand the hesitence for the kernel project to add
things that have so many possibilties of problems like reiserfs4..

But for me its stable enough that I've only had to run reiserfsck
once, and that was right after i set it up, and i had a powerloss.. i
ended up just mkreiser4'ing and starting over because it was before i
even unpacked a stage..

Anyways, Sorry that this wasnt in gentoo-user,
Regards, Andrew
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Daniel Drake wrote:

>Omkhar Arasaratnam wrote:
>
>
>>That said, we're not RedHat. We ship as MANY features as we can and let
>>the user decide. I agree that it is valuable to get reiser4 testing done
>>up front. Eventually - some people will use it. Last I checked "I think
>>$FOO is stupid" wasn't a valid closure code in bugzilla ;-)
>>
>>
>
>Then you have different views from the kernel project :)
>
>We and try and make our kernel (gentoo-sources) _more_ stable than the
>official Linux releases. We mainly stick to bug fixes decreed worthy by the
>upstream developers, etc. We never include patches when we know of problems
>that they will introduce.
>
>Daniel
>
>
Sorry I was unclear - what I meant was that we wouldn't remove all
support for an fs from portage. As an example if/when reiserfs4 merges
into mainline we wouldn't be ripping out all the userland support and
vanilla-kernel support. You are completely correct regarding
gentoo-sources, though I don't believe this was the point of the
original discussion.


--

Omkhar Arasaratnam - Gentoo PPC64 Developer
omkhar@gentoo.org - http://dev.gentoo.org/~omkhar
Gentoo Linux / PPC64 Linux: http://ppc64.gentoo.org

--
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On Sat, 2005-06-18 at 09:34 -0400, Omkhar Arasaratnam wrote:
> That said, we're not RedHat. We ship as MANY features as we can and let
> the user decide. I agree that it is valuable to get reiser4 testing done
> up front. Eventually - some people will use it. Last I checked "I think
> $FOO is stupid" wasn't a valid closure code in bugzilla ;-)

It absolutely is for releases... ;]

We only allow things onto the releases that has been deemed stable
simply because we do not want to deal with the bug reports, especially
considering our new 6-month release cycle. We're actually a little
conservative on what we allow onto the release media because of this.

--
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

Omkhar Arasaratnam wrote:
> Sorry I was unclear - what I meant was that we wouldn't remove all
> support for an fs from portage. As an example if/when reiserfs4 merges
> into mainline we wouldn't be ripping out all the userland support and
> vanilla-kernel support.

We'd never do that. Seeing things included in mainline is our quality measure
for adding things to our patchset.

Daniel
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Omkhar Arasaratnam posted <42B422E6.2090602@gentoo.org>, excerpted below,
on Sat, 18 Jun 2005 09:34:30 -0400:

> As a ppc64 arch and can officially state that reiser4fs is very unstable
> under ppc64 as of the last time I checked, which was some where in the
> 2.6.12rc cycle plus mm patch.

Likewise for amd64, according to those that have tested. That, and the
fact that it's not an option yet with 2.6.12-rc6 (which I'm running) and
that Linus was certainly toning down changes by rc5 time, made me really
surprised that someone could believe it was in .12 at all.

FWIW, the Corbet mentioned in the thread-linked article is the lead editor
for LWN (Linux Weekly News), at lwn.net. I'd think it would have covered
reiser4, just as it has covered other major kernel developments, if it was
heading for mainline any time in the immediate future. The article
created the wrong impression saying that was targeted at .12. Corbet
never said that, only that it was to go into mainline "eventually". To
its credit, that's what the article said, altho it had mentioned 2.6.12
earlier so one could get the wrong impression. I have no reason to
believe reiser4 will be added in the next couple releases, either, so
2.6.15 or later I'd guess, tho I have no exclusive info on it to cause me
to think that.

Anyway, if you are interested in kernel development, I'd suggest watching
LWN. It has been very helpful, here. I'm a subscriber (available from
US$2.50/mo), but most daily content (including the kernel announcements)
is available immediately to all, and the weekly (including the very
informative here weekly kernel page) is available one-week delayed, for
those unwilling or unable to do the subscription thing.

All that said, I'm not sure why this thread is on gentoo-dev. It's really
not gentoo-dev related. gentoo-user would have been more appropriate, IMO.

--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman in
http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html


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