Dear interlist...
=:^)
I'm currently considering two upgrades and am looking for gentoo amd64
friendly recommendations.
1) Netbook/chromebook or possibly amd64-based tablet (presumably shipped
with android, I'm not interested in anything MS-based, even if I plan to
immediately wipe it and install gentoo).
Requirements:
Relatively cheap and small, easy to install gentoo on, amd64, not too
flimsy, hopefully upgradeable SATA drive, HD-standard 1366x720 or better
yet full-hd 1920x1080 strongly preferred, minimum 1024x600 (upgrading
from). While I used ethernet connectivity nearly exclusively on the old
netbook, I expect I'll use wifi more on the upgrade, but strongly prefer
wired ethernet for home use as well.
Need not be a performance powerhouse as I'll be building on my main
bulldozer-1 (fx6100) based workstation and transferring it over, and 8-12
inch display is good, larger would cut down on portability too much.
I currently have a generation 1.5 Acer Aspire One netbook (aoa150l, IIRC),
32-bit-only x86 (32-bit atom n270), that I've actually been quite pleased
with in general including performance, portability and durability. Given
that it's a single-core with hyperthreading, clocked at 1.6 GHz IIRC, and
I've been happy with its performance, performance really /isn't/ a big
issue. This was one of the first netbooks to actually have a standard
SATA connector and thus be drive-upgradeable.
My biggest issue with it has been that it's 32-bit only, and while I
installed a 32-bit chroot on my main machine and do the building there,
the fact that it's 32-bit only means I have to build stuff twice if I'm
upgrading it, with the practical result being that gets put off and it
often goes a year or more between upgrades[1], meaning they tend to be
really hairy when I actually do them. A newer amd64-based system (Intel
or AMD) would eliminate this issue.
The second issue is its relatively small 9" 1024x600 resolution, and of
course its now dated db-15 analog vga external graphics connector. While
I want to keep a reasonably small footprint and am not too concerned
about display size, the bezel was big enough I expect I'll get a larger
display on an upgrade, even with the same overall size, so that's not a
big issue. The bigger issue is that I would like at least HD-standard
1366x720 resolution.
The third and now more urgent issue is that... someone recently
"borrowed" it, and I don't expect to get it back... tho actually I'm not
put out too much about it as I really wanted an excuse to upgrade it
anyway, and this is it. =:^) Tho it's still not a /huge/ issue... I can
do without just fine, it was just nice to have.
Since the chromebooks are all supposed to have developer mode and support
installing something else, an amd64-based (well, 64-bit atom-based,
probably) chromebook would seem a reasonably cost-effective upgrade.
But: I don't know the various complications of the various models,
whether they all have native Linux drivers or if some are still blobs,
etc, and the gentoo wiki writeup on the higher-end chromebook pixel, the
only chromebook writeup I found on the gentoo wiki, made me decide I
definitely needed more info (tho I'd have been unlikely to go with a high-
end one like that anyway, as I don't need it), and preferably
recommendations from others who are happy with their gentoo installations
on amd64-based chromebooks or similar.
Then of course there's the amd64-based tablets out now. I'm guessing
these to be rather more problematic than chromebooks in terms of swtiching
out to gentoo, blob-drivers, existing Linux app compatibility, etc.
Plus, upgradable sata-standard storage, etc, less likely. A tablet would
be very nice and I could use a bluetooth or USB-based external keyboard
if I didn't want to deal with a touchscreen based soft-keyboard, but I'm
uninterested if I can't put gentoo on it without issue or if it requires
blob-drivers, and hardware upgradeability is likely to be a problem as
well, so I'm still skeptical on how practical it'd be.
So amd64/atom based chromebook with good gentoo install potential looks
to be my best bet, ATM. Just... which one?
2) For similar amd64-build-once-use-everywhere reasons, amd64-based
router upgrade.
Requirements: amd64-based (or what's the point?), minimum 4-port
Ethernet required, 5-6 preferred, wifi nice but optional. SATA internal
near-required (could be USB I guess), sata/usb3 for external storage nice.
Probably barebones or mobo+ base to build on, altho cheap used meeting
other requirements is an option. Target of 5 independent Gigabit
Ethernet ports. Quad-port Gigabit Ethernet PCIE expansion cards are
available, so a free PCIE slot plus 1-2 ports builtin is the likely
solution there. I'm figuring a cheap mobo/cpu combo, downclocked for
passive or slow/silent-fan cooling, with a silent/passive power supply is
an option, tho not necessarily the cheapest one especially if I can find
something used.
Current router is an old Linksys wrt54gl, running openwrt. It's doing
fine, but needs a firmware update and both the 100 Mbit fast-ethernet WAN
port and a/b/g-only wifi (which I actually have configured off in openwrt)
are dated.
What I really appreciate about the wrt54g with openwrt is that the
ethernet ports and wifi are all separately configurable/firewallable, tho
I've not made as much use of that as I'd like to, because so much of the
configuration is openwrt specific and the knowledge doesn't transfer as
seamlessly between it and my gentoo machines as I'd like it to, so I've
not bothered to learn as much about it and customize it as much as I
would have were it gentoo.
The biggest issue here is again the fact that it's not amd64-based making
updates inconvenient and thus less frequent than I'd prefer. OpenWRT is
great firmware, but native gentoo would be /so/ much easier to work with,
and native amd64 gentoo would be ideal, since packages could be easily
built on my main machine and at least some of them built only once for
all three machines, workstation/netbook/router.
Cost-wise, the quad-port gigabit ethernet card alone starts at about (US)
$80 on pricewatch.com, a wireless ac/n USB from $30 and PCIE (includes
bluetooth) from $56, if I decide to add wireless, and the base computer
seems to run $200-300 in various configurations, so we're looking at
$300-400, tilting toward $400 unless I get a good deal.
That's certainly steep compared to off-the-shelf routers, but it's amd64
and much more flexible than off-the-shelf routers. Further component
upgrades should be much cheaper, as well.
But I strongly suspect I can bring that down to $300-ish if I find a good
$200 or under used computer as a base. The biggest problem is finding a
good one that is known to have the required open PCIE slot for the quad-
port gigabit Ethernet...
And $300 is in the range of the top end off-the-shelf routers, which this
would compare to in general, probably with slower wifi but much more
flexible in general...
FWIW, I've seen noises of an off-the-shelf amd64-based router in the
works. Target market would be Linux/tech enthusiasts. And I see
existing embedded options, but the price is sky high, in the
thousands... But I don't see existing anything, for anything even
/close/ to reasonable, say a nice and round $500 or under. At $500 I'd
likely not actually get it, but at least it'd be in the "OK, I can at
least dream about it" range.
But someone else here may know about something I've missed. Asking can't
hurt! =:^)
---
[1] Year between upgrades: Security was specifically not a big issue as I
deliberately kept in mind that I might lose it and kept the personal
stuff off it. Also, a bit ironically given the netbook moniker, I didn't
actually use the wifi on it much, mostly using it unconnected on the road
and wired ethernet connected behind my router at home. Without security
being an issue, keeping current on updates wasn't a big issue either, as
long as it continued to work.
--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
=:^)
I'm currently considering two upgrades and am looking for gentoo amd64
friendly recommendations.
1) Netbook/chromebook or possibly amd64-based tablet (presumably shipped
with android, I'm not interested in anything MS-based, even if I plan to
immediately wipe it and install gentoo).
Requirements:
Relatively cheap and small, easy to install gentoo on, amd64, not too
flimsy, hopefully upgradeable SATA drive, HD-standard 1366x720 or better
yet full-hd 1920x1080 strongly preferred, minimum 1024x600 (upgrading
from). While I used ethernet connectivity nearly exclusively on the old
netbook, I expect I'll use wifi more on the upgrade, but strongly prefer
wired ethernet for home use as well.
Need not be a performance powerhouse as I'll be building on my main
bulldozer-1 (fx6100) based workstation and transferring it over, and 8-12
inch display is good, larger would cut down on portability too much.
I currently have a generation 1.5 Acer Aspire One netbook (aoa150l, IIRC),
32-bit-only x86 (32-bit atom n270), that I've actually been quite pleased
with in general including performance, portability and durability. Given
that it's a single-core with hyperthreading, clocked at 1.6 GHz IIRC, and
I've been happy with its performance, performance really /isn't/ a big
issue. This was one of the first netbooks to actually have a standard
SATA connector and thus be drive-upgradeable.
My biggest issue with it has been that it's 32-bit only, and while I
installed a 32-bit chroot on my main machine and do the building there,
the fact that it's 32-bit only means I have to build stuff twice if I'm
upgrading it, with the practical result being that gets put off and it
often goes a year or more between upgrades[1], meaning they tend to be
really hairy when I actually do them. A newer amd64-based system (Intel
or AMD) would eliminate this issue.
The second issue is its relatively small 9" 1024x600 resolution, and of
course its now dated db-15 analog vga external graphics connector. While
I want to keep a reasonably small footprint and am not too concerned
about display size, the bezel was big enough I expect I'll get a larger
display on an upgrade, even with the same overall size, so that's not a
big issue. The bigger issue is that I would like at least HD-standard
1366x720 resolution.
The third and now more urgent issue is that... someone recently
"borrowed" it, and I don't expect to get it back... tho actually I'm not
put out too much about it as I really wanted an excuse to upgrade it
anyway, and this is it. =:^) Tho it's still not a /huge/ issue... I can
do without just fine, it was just nice to have.
Since the chromebooks are all supposed to have developer mode and support
installing something else, an amd64-based (well, 64-bit atom-based,
probably) chromebook would seem a reasonably cost-effective upgrade.
But: I don't know the various complications of the various models,
whether they all have native Linux drivers or if some are still blobs,
etc, and the gentoo wiki writeup on the higher-end chromebook pixel, the
only chromebook writeup I found on the gentoo wiki, made me decide I
definitely needed more info (tho I'd have been unlikely to go with a high-
end one like that anyway, as I don't need it), and preferably
recommendations from others who are happy with their gentoo installations
on amd64-based chromebooks or similar.
Then of course there's the amd64-based tablets out now. I'm guessing
these to be rather more problematic than chromebooks in terms of swtiching
out to gentoo, blob-drivers, existing Linux app compatibility, etc.
Plus, upgradable sata-standard storage, etc, less likely. A tablet would
be very nice and I could use a bluetooth or USB-based external keyboard
if I didn't want to deal with a touchscreen based soft-keyboard, but I'm
uninterested if I can't put gentoo on it without issue or if it requires
blob-drivers, and hardware upgradeability is likely to be a problem as
well, so I'm still skeptical on how practical it'd be.
So amd64/atom based chromebook with good gentoo install potential looks
to be my best bet, ATM. Just... which one?
2) For similar amd64-build-once-use-everywhere reasons, amd64-based
router upgrade.
Requirements: amd64-based (or what's the point?), minimum 4-port
Ethernet required, 5-6 preferred, wifi nice but optional. SATA internal
near-required (could be USB I guess), sata/usb3 for external storage nice.
Probably barebones or mobo+ base to build on, altho cheap used meeting
other requirements is an option. Target of 5 independent Gigabit
Ethernet ports. Quad-port Gigabit Ethernet PCIE expansion cards are
available, so a free PCIE slot plus 1-2 ports builtin is the likely
solution there. I'm figuring a cheap mobo/cpu combo, downclocked for
passive or slow/silent-fan cooling, with a silent/passive power supply is
an option, tho not necessarily the cheapest one especially if I can find
something used.
Current router is an old Linksys wrt54gl, running openwrt. It's doing
fine, but needs a firmware update and both the 100 Mbit fast-ethernet WAN
port and a/b/g-only wifi (which I actually have configured off in openwrt)
are dated.
What I really appreciate about the wrt54g with openwrt is that the
ethernet ports and wifi are all separately configurable/firewallable, tho
I've not made as much use of that as I'd like to, because so much of the
configuration is openwrt specific and the knowledge doesn't transfer as
seamlessly between it and my gentoo machines as I'd like it to, so I've
not bothered to learn as much about it and customize it as much as I
would have were it gentoo.
The biggest issue here is again the fact that it's not amd64-based making
updates inconvenient and thus less frequent than I'd prefer. OpenWRT is
great firmware, but native gentoo would be /so/ much easier to work with,
and native amd64 gentoo would be ideal, since packages could be easily
built on my main machine and at least some of them built only once for
all three machines, workstation/netbook/router.
Cost-wise, the quad-port gigabit ethernet card alone starts at about (US)
$80 on pricewatch.com, a wireless ac/n USB from $30 and PCIE (includes
bluetooth) from $56, if I decide to add wireless, and the base computer
seems to run $200-300 in various configurations, so we're looking at
$300-400, tilting toward $400 unless I get a good deal.
That's certainly steep compared to off-the-shelf routers, but it's amd64
and much more flexible than off-the-shelf routers. Further component
upgrades should be much cheaper, as well.
But I strongly suspect I can bring that down to $300-ish if I find a good
$200 or under used computer as a base. The biggest problem is finding a
good one that is known to have the required open PCIE slot for the quad-
port gigabit Ethernet...
And $300 is in the range of the top end off-the-shelf routers, which this
would compare to in general, probably with slower wifi but much more
flexible in general...
FWIW, I've seen noises of an off-the-shelf amd64-based router in the
works. Target market would be Linux/tech enthusiasts. And I see
existing embedded options, but the price is sky high, in the
thousands... But I don't see existing anything, for anything even
/close/ to reasonable, say a nice and round $500 or under. At $500 I'd
likely not actually get it, but at least it'd be in the "OK, I can at
least dream about it" range.
But someone else here may know about something I've missed. Asking can't
hurt! =:^)
---
[1] Year between upgrades: Security was specifically not a big issue as I
deliberately kept in mind that I might lose it and kept the personal
stuff off it. Also, a bit ironically given the netbook moniker, I didn't
actually use the wifi on it much, mostly using it unconnected on the road
and wired ethernet connected behind my router at home. Without security
being an issue, keeping current on updates wasn't a big issue either, as
long as it continued to work.
--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman