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Avoid remove of messages but able to move them (same for concepts)
Hi guys.

I'm trying to avoid people removing messages but allow moving them.

The issue here is that moving disallows removal at the moment (same
for concepts) and I get duplicates on moves in the old folder it stays
and in the new folder it's copied.

This is done by ACL and people cannot remove messages.

Any idea how to accomplish this or at least be able so people cannot
remove them from trash ?

Thanks!

Matt
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Re: Avoid remove of messages but able to move them (same for concepts) [ In reply to ]
According to this:

Is it possible to avoid people empying their trashcan ?

2015-04-21 0:55 GMT+02:00 Matt . <yamakasi.014@gmail.com>:
> Hi,
>
> True what you say but it would be great to have such option.
>
> I have investigated it in the past, but as it's a DB behind it we
> should be able to do in some way... ACL's help half.
>
> If I'm right you cannot stop the move as you cannot write an email
> anymore which is saved as draft and send.
>
> Difficult but there must be a way.
>
> 2015-04-20 16:39 GMT+02:00 Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net>:
>>
>> Am 20.04.2015 um 16:36 schrieb Matt .:
>>>
>>> Hi guys.
>>>
>>> I'm trying to avoid people removing messages but allow moving them.
>>>
>>> The issue here is that moving disallows removal at the moment (same
>>> for concepts) and I get duplicates on moves in the old folder it stays
>>> and in the new folder it's copied.
>>>
>>> This is done by ACL and people cannot remove messages.
>>>
>>> Any idea how to accomplish this or at least be able so people cannot
>>> remove them from trash?
>>
>>
>> impossible
>>
>> most clients in case of move a message making a copy in the new folder and
>> after that delete the message in the source folder - so if you disallow
>> remove you break move by definition
>>
>> one could blame the client making the copy at all with no permissions to
>> delete the source message but as said: there is no fix on the server side
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> DBmail mailing list
>> DBmail@dbmail.org
>> http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
>>
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Re: Avoid remove of messages but able to move them (same for concepts) [ In reply to ]
Am 24.04.2015 um 12:34 schrieb Matt .:
> According to this:
>
> Is it possible to avoid people empying their trashcan ?

frankly that all makes no sense and is not the job of a IMAP server
because it would confuse the MUA - what you seek is a mail archiver
which is far far away from the IMAP server and stores any incoming mail
unconditionally *before* it is passed to the user mailbox

> 2015-04-21 0:55 GMT+02:00 Matt . <yamakasi.014@gmail.com>:
>> Hi,
>>
>> True what you say but it would be great to have such option.
>>
>> I have investigated it in the past, but as it's a DB behind it we
>> should be able to do in some way... ACL's help half.
>>
>> If I'm right you cannot stop the move as you cannot write an email
>> anymore which is saved as draft and send.
>>
>> Difficult but there must be a way.
>>
>> 2015-04-20 16:39 GMT+02:00 Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net>:
>>>
>>> Am 20.04.2015 um 16:36 schrieb Matt .:
>>>>
>>>> Hi guys.
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to avoid people removing messages but allow moving them.
>>>>
>>>> The issue here is that moving disallows removal at the moment (same
>>>> for concepts) and I get duplicates on moves in the old folder it stays
>>>> and in the new folder it's copied.
>>>>
>>>> This is done by ACL and people cannot remove messages.
>>>>
>>>> Any idea how to accomplish this or at least be able so people cannot
>>>> remove them from trash?
>>>
>>>
>>> impossible
>>>
>>> most clients in case of move a message making a copy in the new folder and
>>> after that delete the message in the source folder - so if you disallow
>>> remove you break move by definition
>>>
>>> one could blame the client making the copy at all with no permissions to
>>> delete the source message but as said: there is no fix on the server side
Re: Avoid remove of messages but able to move them (same for concepts) [ In reply to ]
Hi Reindl,

Yes Mail archiver is the next option.

We don't use dbmail in an ordinary way, so we are just looking for the
possibilities with DBMAIL.

So more ideas are welcome.

2015-04-24 12:38 GMT+02:00 Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net>:
>
>
> Am 24.04.2015 um 12:34 schrieb Matt .:
>>
>> According to this:
>>
>> Is it possible to avoid people empying their trashcan ?
>
>
> frankly that all makes no sense and is not the job of a IMAP server because
> it would confuse the MUA - what you seek is a mail archiver which is far far
> away from the IMAP server and stores any incoming mail unconditionally
> *before* it is passed to the user mailbox
>
>
>> 2015-04-21 0:55 GMT+02:00 Matt . <yamakasi.014@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> True what you say but it would be great to have such option.
>>>
>>> I have investigated it in the past, but as it's a DB behind it we
>>> should be able to do in some way... ACL's help half.
>>>
>>> If I'm right you cannot stop the move as you cannot write an email
>>> anymore which is saved as draft and send.
>>>
>>> Difficult but there must be a way.
>>>
>>> 2015-04-20 16:39 GMT+02:00 Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 20.04.2015 um 16:36 schrieb Matt .:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi guys.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm trying to avoid people removing messages but allow moving them.
>>>>>
>>>>> The issue here is that moving disallows removal at the moment (same
>>>>> for concepts) and I get duplicates on moves in the old folder it stays
>>>>> and in the new folder it's copied.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is done by ACL and people cannot remove messages.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any idea how to accomplish this or at least be able so people cannot
>>>>> remove them from trash?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> impossible
>>>>
>>>> most clients in case of move a message making a copy in the new folder
>>>> and
>>>> after that delete the message in the source folder - so if you disallow
>>>> remove you break move by definition
>>>>
>>>> one could blame the client making the copy at all with no permissions to
>>>> delete the source message but as said: there is no fix on the server
>>>> side
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> DBmail mailing list
> DBmail@dbmail.org
> http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
>
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Re: Avoid remove of messages but able to move them (same for concepts) [ In reply to ]
Hi,

you can avoid deleting messages from the database by changing the delete
bit for each message in the "Trash" folder.

This can be done in 2 ways, simple before running dbmail-utils run this
query

UPDATE dbmail_messages set deleted_flag=0, status=0;

with this query all messages get reseted to not delete. If you only want
not to delete messages in the trash, you have to defined a name for all
trash folders and join the dbmail_mailboxes table to filter for the
messages.

This could lead to 3 problems, you can't delete/move messages if you don't
filter on the trash folder.
You may break some clients that think that IMAP is a stateful protocol.
You may break the dbmail 3.2 QRESYNC capabilities. (this could be
workaround by a another query)

Alternative to the update all query you can attach a trigger to the
dbmail_messages table and check at query time the value of deleted_flag
and status correct the values.

Another way is to patch dbmail source ;-)

regards,

Harald





Am .04.2015, 13:59 Uhr, schrieb Matt . <yamakasi.014@gmail.com>:

> Hi Reindl,
>
> Yes Mail archiver is the next option.
>
> We don't use dbmail in an ordinary way, so we are just looking for the
> possibilities with DBMAIL.
>
> So more ideas are welcome.
>
> 2015-04-24 12:38 GMT+02:00 Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net>:
>>
>>
>> Am 24.04.2015 um 12:34 schrieb Matt .:
>>>
>>> According to this:
>>>
>>> Is it possible to avoid people empying their trashcan ?
>>
>>
>> frankly that all makes no sense and is not the job of a IMAP server
>> because
>> it would confuse the MUA - what you seek is a mail archiver which is
>> far far
>> away from the IMAP server and stores any incoming mail unconditionally
>> *before* it is passed to the user mailbox
>>
>>
>>> 2015-04-21 0:55 GMT+02:00 Matt . <yamakasi.014@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> True what you say but it would be great to have such option.
>>>>
>>>> I have investigated it in the past, but as it's a DB behind it we
>>>> should be able to do in some way... ACL's help half.
>>>>
>>>> If I'm right you cannot stop the move as you cannot write an email
>>>> anymore which is saved as draft and send.
>>>>
>>>> Difficult but there must be a way.
>>>>
>>>> 2015-04-20 16:39 GMT+02:00 Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 20.04.2015 um 16:36 schrieb Matt .:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi guys.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm trying to avoid people removing messages but allow moving them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The issue here is that moving disallows removal at the moment (same
>>>>>> for concepts) and I get duplicates on moves in the old folder it
>>>>>> stays
>>>>>> and in the new folder it's copied.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is done by ACL and people cannot remove messages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any idea how to accomplish this or at least be able so people cannot
>>>>>> remove them from trash?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> impossible
>>>>>
>>>>> most clients in case of move a message making a copy in the new
>>>>> folder
>>>>> and
>>>>> after that delete the message in the source folder - so if you
>>>>> disallow
>>>>> remove you break move by definition
>>>>>
>>>>> one could blame the client making the copy at all with no
>>>>> permissions to
>>>>> delete the source message but as said: there is no fix on the server
>>>>> side
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> DBmail mailing list
>> DBmail@dbmail.org
>> http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
>>
> _______________________________________________
> DBmail mailing list
> DBmail@dbmail.org
> http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail


--
Harald Leithner

ITronic
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Re: Avoid remove of messages but able to move them (same for concepts) [ In reply to ]
Hi.

Probably a questionable idea, but you could put a TRIGGER on the
database table and run some SP that moves the message -- or rather
copies it some other folder (in which the user will not have delete
permission)..

but not sure if that is .. feasable ;)

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