Mailing List Archive

http://namespaces.zope.org/zope
So..

I was talking to Philipp the other day on IRC, wondering why

http://namespaces.zope.org/zope

Doesn't actually exist on on the intarweb. At first I wondered if it
was a requirement, like for a DTD, and P says no, so I believe him.
We did agree that it would be nice if something lived here talking
about ZCML, which is what the w3c does for their namespaces, like:

http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml

Of course, I volunteer.

--
Justizin, Independent Interactivity Architect
ACM SIGGRAPH SysMgr, Reporter
http://www.siggraph.org/
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: http://namespaces.zope.org/zope [ In reply to ]
Justizin wrote:
> So..
>
> I was talking to Philipp the other day on IRC, wondering why
>
> http://namespaces.zope.org/zope
>
> Doesn't actually exist on on the intarweb. At first I wondered if it
> was a requirement, like for a DTD, and P says no, so I believe him.
> We did agree that it would be nice if something lived here talking
> about ZCML, which is what the w3c does for their namespaces, like:
>
> http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml
>
> Of course, I volunteer.

First, thank you for volunteering!

Right, it's indeed not a requirement, the namespace URL is just a way to
get uniqueness, but it'd indeed be nice if something lived there.

We're currently investigating mechanisms by which we (as the community)
can manage the nameserver for zope.org - a requirement to bring
namespaces.zope.org into being. We're also trying to figure out what
could be listening on the other end.

What I would propose if you write the documents you want to sit on the
other end for the various ZCML namespaces, and put them up somewhere for
us to review. Once we're happy with them, we'll work on putting them online.

Regards,

Martijn


_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: http://namespaces.zope.org/zope [ In reply to ]
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On 26 Sep 2006, at 14:40, Martijn Faassen wrote:
> We're currently investigating mechanisms by which we (as the
> community) can manage the nameserver for zope.org - a requirement
> to bring namespaces.zope.org into being. We're also trying to
> figure out what could be listening on the other end.

If DNS is a bottleneck I volunteer to host the zope.org zone on my
colocated servers (ns1.dataflake.org as primary, ns1.zetwork.com as
secondary). The data center they are in (in Richmond/VA) has
redundant internet connectivity and a sterling uptime record for
their network.

jens

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_______________________________________________
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http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: http://namespaces.zope.org/zope [ In reply to ]
On 9/26/06, Martijn Faassen <faassen@infrae.com> wrote:
> Justizin wrote:
> > So..
> >
> > I was talking to Philipp the other day on IRC, wondering why
> >
> > http://namespaces.zope.org/zope
> >
> > Doesn't actually exist on on the intarweb. At first I wondered if it
> > was a requirement, like for a DTD, and P says no, so I believe him.
> > We did agree that it would be nice if something lived here talking
> > about ZCML, which is what the w3c does for their namespaces, like:
> >
> > http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml
> >
> > Of course, I volunteer.
>
> First, thank you for volunteering!
>
> Right, it's indeed not a requirement, the namespace URL is just a way to
> get uniqueness, but it'd indeed be nice if something lived there.
>

> What I would propose if you write the documents you want to sit on the
> other end for the various ZCML namespaces, and put them up somewhere for
> us to review. Once we're happy with them, we'll work on putting them online.
>

Right on. This will probably take some time, and, eh, anyone else who
wants to help is more than welcome.

Perhaps we should follow whatever process is set out for managing ZF
content as ReST.

Is there a place where Zope3 documentation is auto-generated via
pydoc? I'm sure this doesn't quite cover documenting the ZCML
namespace, but maybe it's a good place to start looking at where to
pick up and fill in holes?

--
Justizin, Independent Interactivity Architect
ACM SIGGRAPH SysMgr, Reporter
http://www.siggraph.org/
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: http://namespaces.zope.org/zope [ In reply to ]
Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
> If DNS is a bottleneck I volunteer to host the zope.org zone on my
> colocated servers (ns1.dataflake.org as primary, ns1.zetwork.com as
> secondary). The data center they are in (in Richmond/VA) has redundant
> internet connectivity and a sterling uptime record for their network.

I can do the same using rackspace's DNS servers...

cheers,

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk

_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: http://namespaces.zope.org/zope [ In reply to ]
Justizin wrote:
[snip]
> Perhaps we should follow whatever process is set out for managing ZF
> content as ReST.

Process right now is pretty simple. The rest content is sitting here:

svn://svn.zope.org/repos/main/web/zf/trunk

we can put other things under /web/.

> Is there a place where Zope3 documentation is auto-generated via
> pydoc? I'm sure this doesn't quite cover documenting the ZCML
> namespace, but maybe it's a good place to start looking at where to
> pick up and fill in holes?

We currently don't have a pydoc extraction of Zope 3 documentation.
Making something that extracts documentation from Zope 3 and puts it
online would be very helpful. In fact, we do have apidoc. This is
currently something that only runs while running Zope 3 itself. It's
been a long-standing wish to make static copies out of this we can put
online. I think its story for non-API documentation (ReST txt files) may
be weak, though.

Volunteers are of course more than welcome to investigate all this. :)

Regards,

Martijn



_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: http://namespaces.zope.org/zope [ In reply to ]
Will they slave a zone these days? ;)

On 9/27/06, Chris Withers <chris@simplistix.co.uk> wrote:
> Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
> > If DNS is a bottleneck I volunteer to host the zope.org zone on my
> > colocated servers (ns1.dataflake.org as primary, ns1.zetwork.com as
> > secondary). The data center they are in (in Richmond/VA) has redundant
> > internet connectivity and a sterling uptime record for their network.
>
> I can do the same using rackspace's DNS servers...
>
> cheers,
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
> - http://www.simplistix.co.uk
>
> _______________________________________________
> Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
>


--
Justizin, Independent Interactivity Architect
ACM SIGGRAPH SysMgr, Reporter
http://www.siggraph.org/
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: http://namespaces.zope.org/zope [ In reply to ]
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On 27 Sep 2006, at 17:01, Justizin wrote:

> Will they slave a zone these days? ;)
>
> On 9/27/06, Chris Withers <chris@simplistix.co.uk> wrote:
>> Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
>> > If DNS is a bottleneck I volunteer to host the zope.org zone on my
>> > colocated servers (ns1.dataflake.org as primary, ns1.zetwork.com as
>> > secondary). The data center they are in (in Richmond/VA) has
>> redundant
>> > internet connectivity and a sterling uptime record for their
>> network.
>>
>> I can do the same using rackspace's DNS servers...

If Chris runs a name server then Rackspace doesn't have any influence
on Chris' decision to use it as a slave for someone else...

jens





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_______________________________________________
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Re: http://namespaces.zope.org/zope [ In reply to ]
On 9/27/06, Jens Vagelpohl <jens@dataflake.org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 27 Sep 2006, at 17:01, Justizin wrote:
>
> > Will they slave a zone these days? ;)
> >
> > On 9/27/06, Chris Withers <chris@simplistix.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
> >> > If DNS is a bottleneck I volunteer to host the zope.org zone on my
> >> > colocated servers (ns1.dataflake.org as primary, ns1.zetwork.com as
> >> > secondary). The data center they are in (in Richmond/VA) has
> >> redundant
> >> > internet connectivity and a sterling uptime record for their
> >> network.
> >>
> >> I can do the same using rackspace's DNS servers...
>
> If Chris runs a name server then Rackspace doesn't have any influence
> on Chris' decision to use it as a slave for someone else...
>

Jens.. heh.

Perhaps I am making a wild and sweeping assumption here, but I think
that Chris is talking about the DNS servers which are controlled by
software the team I worked on at Rackspace was responsible for, and
look like ns.rackspace.com. ;)

So, I'm actually curious if they have implemented a feature which was
not high priority when I worked there, and that is the ability to
configure their nameservers as slaves. The inverse was implemented

Tom - do you know if Rackspace's nameservers are capable of serving up
a slave copy of a zone which is managed at ZoneEdit.com? We'd like to
de-centralize the zope.org zone so that no one individual or
organization such as Zope Corp are responsible for / in control of it.
I presume one of our volunteers is a Rackspace customer, and is thus
offering to host our domain as part of their account.

--
Justizin, Independent Interactivity Architect
ACM SIGGRAPH SysMgr, Reporter
http://www.siggraph.org/
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: http://namespaces.zope.org/zope [ In reply to ]
Justizin wrote:
> Perhaps I am making a wild and sweeping assumption here, but I think
> that Chris is talking about the DNS servers which are controlled by
> software the team I worked on at Rackspace was responsible for, and
> look like ns.rackspace.com. ;)

Yep, so you're responsible for that crappy ui?
Dotster's wins for ease of use so far...

> So, I'm actually curious if they have implemented a feature which was
> not high priority when I worked there, and that is the ability to
> configure their nameservers as slaves.

Don't think so, it's just that I can "host dns" there for stuff that
isn't hosted on their servers.

I'd hope their nameservers are also pretty robust?

> Tom - do you know if Rackspace's nameservers are capable of serving up
> a slave copy of a zone which is managed at ZoneEdit.com?

When I wrote that email, I was actually proposing hosting the masters
there. I don't mind being "DNS boy" for zope.org and I'd hope
rackspace's nameservers would scale to the challenge...

> We'd like to
> de-centralize the zope.org zone so that no one individual or
> organization such as Zope Corp are responsible for / in control of it.

If I ever did stop doing Zope stuff (hahahaha) then I'd happilly hand
the records on to someone else.

If I dropped dead (or got taken out by that hitman Jens keeps on
promising), the DNS could similarly be moved elsewhere...

> I presume one of our volunteers is a Rackspace customer, and is thus
> offering to host our domain as part of their account.

That'd be me ;-)

cheers,

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: http://namespaces.zope.org/zope [ In reply to ]
On 9/27/06, Chris Withers <chris@simplistix.co.uk> wrote:
> Justizin wrote:
> > Perhaps I am making a wild and sweeping assumption here, but I think
> > that Chris is talking about the DNS servers which are controlled by
> > software the team I worked on at Rackspace was responsible for, and
> > look like ns.rackspace.com. ;)
>
> Yep, so you're responsible for that crappy ui?
> Dotster's wins for ease of use so far...
>

Not personally, but I will take the hit. ;)

Actually, the UI that I worked on was AJAX before AJAX had a name, and
was primarily directed toward employees.

The tools were all written when the company was very young, and, eh,
yeh, they have not been rewritten.

Let's simply say that I felt rather strongly that we should have moved
to Zope, and we didn't, so I don't work on that PHP anymore. It was
an interesting project, however.

> > So, I'm actually curious if they have implemented a feature which was
> > not high priority when I worked there, and that is the ability to
> > configure their nameservers as slaves.
>
> Don't think so, it's just that I can "host dns" there for stuff that
> isn't hosted on their servers.
>
> I'd hope their nameservers are also pretty robust?
>

When I left, I believe NS and NS2 were both load balanced clusters of
three large machines, which probably sit behind PrevenTier, a patented
DoS-aversion system, now. They may also have moved onto geographic
load balancing. I wouldn't really know.

> > Tom - do you know if Rackspace's nameservers are capable of serving up
> > a slave copy of a zone which is managed at ZoneEdit.com?
>
> When I wrote that email, I was actually proposing hosting the masters
> there. I don't mind being "DNS boy" for zope.org and I'd hope
> rackspace's nameservers would scale to the challenge...
>

If you want to do that, I don't object to losing Czar status. ;)

I am concerned that we can't easily allow a team of people who aren't
on your private customer account access to do this. I'm already
concerned that with my ZoneEdit account I can't give anyone else
access, and was going to propose opening a Zope Foundation account
which several people could have access to.

That said, concern raised, what do Martijin and others think?

We could still slave to Rack's nameservers.

> > We'd like to
> > de-centralize the zope.org zone so that no one individual or
> > organization such as Zope Corp are responsible for / in control of it.
>
> If I ever did stop doing Zope stuff (hahahaha) then I'd happilly hand
> the records on to someone else.

But of course, or the foundation would steal them back. :-P

> If I dropped dead (or got taken out by that hitman Jens keeps on
> promising), the DNS could similarly be moved elsewhere...
>
> > I presume one of our volunteers is a Rackspace customer, and is thus
> > offering to host our domain as part of their account.
>
> That'd be me ;-)
>
> cheers,
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
> - http://www.simplistix.co.uk
>


--
Justizin, Independent Interactivity Architect
ACM SIGGRAPH SysMgr, Reporter
http://www.siggraph.org/
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: http://namespaces.zope.org/zope [ In reply to ]
On 9/27/06 11:57 AM, "Chris Withers" <chris@simplistix.co.uk> wrote:

> Justizin wrote:
>> Perhaps I am making a wild and sweeping assumption here, but I think
>> that Chris is talking about the DNS servers which are controlled by
>> software the team I worked on at Rackspace was responsible for, and
>> look like ns.rackspace.com. ;)
>
> Yep, so you're responsible for that crappy ui?
> Dotster's wins for ease of use so far...
>
>> So, I'm actually curious if they have implemented a feature which was
>> not high priority when I worked there, and that is the ability to
>> configure their nameservers as slaves.
>
> Don't think so, it's just that I can "host dns" there for stuff that
> isn't hosted on their servers.
>
> I'd hope their nameservers are also pretty robust?
>
>> Tom - do you know if Rackspace's nameservers are capable of serving up
>> a slave copy of a zone which is managed at ZoneEdit.com?
>
> When I wrote that email, I was actually proposing hosting the masters
> there. I don't mind being "DNS boy" for zope.org and I'd hope
> rackspace's nameservers would scale to the challenge...
This is why I proposed using zoneedit
>
>> We'd like to
>> de-centralize the zope.org zone so that no one individual or
>> organization such as Zope Corp are responsible for / in control of it.

>
> If I ever did stop doing Zope stuff (hahahaha) then I'd happilly hand
> the records on to someone else.
Easily done at zoneedit (change pasword) and no pain in migrating. Bad
idead IMNSHO putting this into a single persons control.
>
> If I dropped dead (or got taken out by that hitman Jens keeps on
> promising), the DNS could similarly be moved elsewhere...
>
No need to be moved if it's on zoneedit.

>> I presume one of our volunteers is a Rackspace customer, and is thus
>> offering to host our domain as part of their account.
>
> That'd be me ;-)
>
> cheers,
>
> Chris

This solution is already started, lets just put it to bed?

Andrew


_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: http://namespaces.zope.org/zope [ In reply to ]
On 9/27/06 12:10 PM, "Justizin" <justizin@siggraph.org> wrote:

> On 9/27/06, Chris Withers <chris@simplistix.co.uk> wrote:
>> Justizin wrote:

>>
>
> When I left, I believe NS and NS2 were both load balanced clusters of
> three large machines, which probably sit behind PrevenTier, a patented
> DoS-aversion system, now. They may also have moved onto geographic
> load balancing. I wouldn't really know.
>
>>> Tom - do you know if Rackspace's nameservers are capable of serving up
>>> a slave copy of a zone which is managed at ZoneEdit.com?
>>
>> When I wrote that email, I was actually proposing hosting the masters
>> there. I don't mind being "DNS boy" for zope.org and I'd hope
>> rackspace's nameservers would scale to the challenge...
>>
>
> If you want to do that, I don't object to losing Czar status. ;)
>
> I am concerned that we can't easily allow a team of people who aren't
> on your private customer account access to do this. I'm already
> concerned that with my ZoneEdit account I can't give anyone else
> access, and was going to propose opening a Zope Foundation account
> which several people could have access to.
>
This is the key to using something like zoneedit - so you can share it.
> That said, concern raised, what do Martijin and others think?
If you made a 'personal' account and are then putting zope.org into that -
don't do that. Make a 'shared' account just for zope.org
>
> We could still slave to Rack's nameservers.
Don't we have enough slave volunteers right now?


Andrew


_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: http://namespaces.zope.org/zope [ In reply to ]
I'm taking this offline with Chris.

I agree with the concerns about hosting in an individual personal
account, although we are doing no better at ZoneEdit right now with
JRyan36 or whatever the heck I am called.

On 9/27/06, Andrew Sawyers <andrew@sawdog.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 9/27/06 11:57 AM, "Chris Withers" <chris@simplistix.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Justizin wrote:
> >> Perhaps I am making a wild and sweeping assumption here, but I think
> >> that Chris is talking about the DNS servers which are controlled by
> >> software the team I worked on at Rackspace was responsible for, and
> >> look like ns.rackspace.com. ;)
> >
> > Yep, so you're responsible for that crappy ui?
> > Dotster's wins for ease of use so far...
> >
> >> So, I'm actually curious if they have implemented a feature which was
> >> not high priority when I worked there, and that is the ability to
> >> configure their nameservers as slaves.
> >
> > Don't think so, it's just that I can "host dns" there for stuff that
> > isn't hosted on their servers.
> >
> > I'd hope their nameservers are also pretty robust?
> >
> >> Tom - do you know if Rackspace's nameservers are capable of serving up
> >> a slave copy of a zone which is managed at ZoneEdit.com?
> >
> > When I wrote that email, I was actually proposing hosting the masters
> > there. I don't mind being "DNS boy" for zope.org and I'd hope
> > rackspace's nameservers would scale to the challenge...
> This is why I proposed using zoneedit
> >
> >> We'd like to
> >> de-centralize the zope.org zone so that no one individual or
> >> organization such as Zope Corp are responsible for / in control of it.
>
> >
> > If I ever did stop doing Zope stuff (hahahaha) then I'd happilly hand
> > the records on to someone else.
> Easily done at zoneedit (change pasword) and no pain in migrating. Bad
> idead IMNSHO putting this into a single persons control.
> >
> > If I dropped dead (or got taken out by that hitman Jens keeps on
> > promising), the DNS could similarly be moved elsewhere...
> >
> No need to be moved if it's on zoneedit.
>
> >> I presume one of our volunteers is a Rackspace customer, and is thus
> >> offering to host our domain as part of their account.
> >
> > That'd be me ;-)
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > Chris
>
> This solution is already started, lets just put it to bed?
>
> Andrew
>
>
>


--
Justizin, Independent Interactivity Architect
ACM SIGGRAPH SysMgr, Reporter
http://www.siggraph.org/
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: http://namespaces.zope.org/zope [ In reply to ]
On 9/27/06, tweeks <tweeks@rackspace.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday 27 September 2006 10:37 am, Justizin wrote:
>
> > Tom - do you know if Rackspace's nameservers are capable of serving up
> > a slave copy of a zone which is managed at ZoneEdit.com?
>
> We don't do that any longer on our main geo-load balanced ns and ns2
> nameservers.
>
> We do have a "sec-only" name server that we will slave off a customer's
> master. But a) it's not tied in with myrackspace/DNS tool (big deal).. and
> b) it is HA, but it's not geo-HA.
>

That would benefit us, I think.

>
> > We'd like to
> > de-centralize the zope.org zone so that no one individual or
> > organization such as Zope Corp are responsible for / in control of it.
>
> Well I can't help you on the people side... zero to n individuals are always
> going to be responsible... But yes.. we can hook you guys up with our
> sec-only name service. Here's a KB article on the topic:
> Can Rackspace provide secondary DNS and let me control my own master server?
>
> https://my.rackspace.com/direct?view_kb_doc&ref_no=050803-0001&submit=view_article
> (requires a valid MyRS login)
>
> As the KB article states... our seconly DNS service -
> is legacy only offering.. but we do make acceptions. :)
>
> What account is this on? Who's the official PoC?
>

Chris is the POC - Chris, you should be able to log in and view the link above.

Slave to ns10/12.zoneedit.com

--
Justizin, Independent Interactivity Architect
ACM SIGGRAPH SysMgr, Reporter
http://www.siggraph.org/
_______________________________________________
Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: http://namespaces.zope.org/zope [ In reply to ]
Justizin wrote:
> I agree with the concerns about hosting in an individual personal
> account, although we are doing no better at ZoneEdit right now with
> JRyan36 or whatever the heck I am called.

Yeah, but we can register a "zopeorg" user at zoneedit which we can give
login details to any relevant user. Admittedly not as nice as a "zope"
account offering only DNS at Rackspace where we can create new "user"
accounts as and when needed...

cheers,

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk

_______________________________________________
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