Mailing List Archive

I'm confused... I thought that we had decided to just swap IPs at the
correct time, so the transfer is immediate. Did I miss something?

Jason

Brion Vibber wrote:

> I'd really like to get us switched over to using Larousse as the web
> server soon and take some of the strain off poor Pliny.
>
> Jason, can we get a commitment to change the DNS entry for
> www.wikipedia.org over at some particular time in the next couple of
> days?
>
> I've copied in the uploaded files from the English wiki, we can rsync
> the latest changes up when it's time to put it online (at which point
> pliny's copy of the wiki can be put into read-only mode to avoid
> confusion).
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)



--
"Jason C. Richey" <jasonr@bomis.com>

> (Jason Richey <jasonr@bomis.com>):
> I'm confused... I thought that we had decided to just swap IPs at the
> correct time, so the transfer is immediate. Did I miss something?

Yes, the final event will be immediate, but there is some careful
timing and coordination needed.

For example, shortly before the switchover, we'll have to make the
wiki read-only, then copy over any recently-uploaded images. Also,
the version of the software now on larousse requires a minor database
update (salted user passwords), so that will have to be done while
Apache serves a static page or something (or else we can downgrade
the software and do that change later--but I'd rather keep all te
live software in sync with CVS).

At any rate, just pick a convenient low-traffic time, and Brion and
I will arrange to both be available.

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC

On Mon, 12 May 2003, Jason Richey wrote:
> I'm confused... I thought that we had decided to just swap IPs at the
> correct time, so the transfer is immediate. Did I miss something?

Hmm, well we could do that, but we'd have to transfer all phase3 wikis
simultaneously, which wasn't what Lee had talked about earlier. (The
easiest thing to do at that point would be to bodily transfer the
/apache/htdocs* and /apache/conf directories to the other server. Or else
put some more work into making centralized scripts that can produce the
proper directory tree and config files, which we'll want for adding more
wikis later.) You'd also still have to switch the DNS entries for pliny
and larousse, unless we're switching their names to match their IPs. ;)

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

> (Brion Vibber <vibber@aludra.usc.edu>):
> On Mon, 12 May 2003, Jason Richey wrote:
> > I'm confused... I thought that we had decided to just swap IPs at the
> > correct time, so the transfer is immediate. Did I miss something?
>
> Hmm, well we could do that, but we'd have to transfer all phase3 wikis
> simultaneously, which wasn't what Lee had talked about earlier. (The
> easiest thing to do at that point would be to bodily transfer the
> /apache/htdocs* and /apache/conf directories to the other server. Or else
> put some more work into making centralized scripts that can produce the
> proper directory tree and config files, which we'll want for adding more
> wikis later.) You'd also still have to switch the DNS entries for pliny
> and larousse, unless we're switching their names to match their IPs. ;)

I'd really rather not do that. The setup on Pliny has become crufty
and hard to maintain. I went out of my way to install the software on
Larousse in a cleaner, simpler layout. Transfer of the English wiki
should be simple and quick, and will get rid of much of the server
load. Each of the remaining ones can be transferred on at a time,
using DNS, which will be fine because they can run on both servers
while the DNS propogates without any problem (that probably wouldn't
work as well for the English one).

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC

On Mon, 12 May 2003, Lee Daniel Crocker wrote:
> I'd really rather not do that. The setup on Pliny has become crufty
> and hard to maintain. I went out of my way to install the software on
> Larousse in a cleaner, simpler layout. Transfer of the English wiki
> should be simple and quick, and will get rid of much of the server
> load. Each of the remaining ones can be transferred on at a time,
> using DNS, which will be fine because they can run on both servers
> while the DNS propogates without any problem (that probably wouldn't
> work as well for the English one).

Okay, let me spell this out again. :)

Right now, all wikis are served from the same IP address on the same
machine.

If we swap IP addresses, all wikis are served from the same IP address,
but now they're all on the other machine. That means we must make
provisions to serve all phase 3 wikis on the new machine immediately upon
making the switch.

If, instead, we adjust the DNS, we can individually move each wiki to the
new server one at a time or in a bunch, but need to make provisions for
each one that we switch to leave the old machine in a non-dangerous state
for that wiki while the change propogates (which will be reduced by
dropping the TTL ahead of time).

If I'm missing something here, please let me know.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

> (Brion Vibber <vibber@aludra.usc.edu>):
> Right now, all wikis are served from the same IP address on the
> same machine. If we swap IP addresses, all wikis are served from
> the same IP address, but now they're all on the other machine. That
> means we must make provisions to serve all phase 3 wikis on the new
> machine immediately upon making the switch.

You're right--switching IPs means we have to pre-install all the
international wikis on Larousse. That would require leaving them
read-only for probably a longer period of time than we'd like.

> If, instead, we adjust the DNS, we can individually move each wiki
> to the new server one at a time or in a bunch, but need to make
> provisions for each one that we switch to leave the old machine in a
> non-dangerous state for that wiki while the change propogates (which
> will be reduced by dropping the TTL ahead of time).

That's probably simpler.

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC

Sounds reasonable... The TTL should be set to 1 Hour now. Let me know
if that is not the case. I'm ready to make the DNS switch whenever,
jus let me know.

Jason

Lee Daniel Crocker wrote:

> > (Brion Vibber <vibber@aludra.usc.edu>):
> > Right now, all wikis are served from the same IP address on the
> > same machine. If we swap IP addresses, all wikis are served from
> > the same IP address, but now they're all on the other machine. That
> > means we must make provisions to serve all phase 3 wikis on the new
> > machine immediately upon making the switch.
>
> You're right--switching IPs means we have to pre-install all the
> international wikis on Larousse. That would require leaving them
> read-only for probably a longer period of time than we'd like.
>
> > If, instead, we adjust the DNS, we can individually move each wiki
> > to the new server one at a time or in a bunch, but need to make
> > provisions for each one that we switch to leave the old machine in a
> > non-dangerous state for that wiki while the change propogates (which
> > will be reduced by dropping the TTL ahead of time).
>
> That's probably simpler.
>
> --
> Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
> "All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
> are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
> for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@wikipedia.org
> http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

--
"Jason C. Richey" <jasonr@bomis.com>

On Tue, 2003-05-13 at 00:57, Jason Richey wrote:
> Sounds reasonable... The TTL should be set to 1 Hour now. Let me know
> if that is not the case. I'm ready to make the DNS switch whenever,
> jus let me know.

Cool...

There's a period of lighter traffic on the English wiki about 4:00-13:00
UTC, lowest point at 10:00 (3am here in sunny California). Ironically
this is when the European traffic peaks. ;) It might be best to make the
switch around 4:00-5:00 (11pm-midnight pacific), giving us a few extra
hours of lighter traffic to work with if we screw things up.

When it comes time to move the euro wikis, there's virtual dead time
from about midnight-5:00 am (5-10pm pacific time).

See exciting graphs:
http://www.wikipedia.org/stats/hourly_usage_200305.png
http://de.wikipedia.org/stats/hourly_usage_200305.png

If there's no objection, how about we plan to switch www.wikipedia.org
to larousse tomorrow (tuesday night/wednesday morning)?

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

> (Brion Vibber <brion@pobox.com>):
>
> If there's no objection, how about we plan to switch www.wikipedia.org
> to larousse tomorrow (tuesday night/wednesday morning)?

Sounds good to me.
--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC

Okay... So I'm looking at changing the DNS at 11:00 pm PDT tonight, right?

I'm just supposed to change anything that is pointing to
130.94.122.197 (except pliny.wikipedia.org) to point to
130.94.122.199, right?

Jason

Brion Vibber wrote:

> On Tue, 2003-05-13 at 00:57, Jason Richey wrote:
> > Sounds reasonable... The TTL should be set to 1 Hour now. Let me know
> > if that is not the case. I'm ready to make the DNS switch whenever,
> > jus let me know.
>
> Cool...
>
> There's a period of lighter traffic on the English wiki about 4:00-13:00
> UTC, lowest point at 10:00 (3am here in sunny California). Ironically
> this is when the European traffic peaks. ;) It might be best to make the
> switch around 4:00-5:00 (11pm-midnight pacific), giving us a few extra
> hours of lighter traffic to work with if we screw things up.
>
> When it comes time to move the euro wikis, there's virtual dead time
> from about midnight-5:00 am (5-10pm pacific time).
>
> See exciting graphs:
> http://www.wikipedia.org/stats/hourly_usage_200305.png
> http://de.wikipedia.org/stats/hourly_usage_200305.png
>
> If there's no objection, how about we plan to switch www.wikipedia.org
> to larousse tomorrow (tuesday night/wednesday morning)?
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)



--
"Jason C. Richey" <jasonr@bomis.com>

> (Jason Richey <jasonr@bomis.com>):
> Okay... So I'm looking at changing the DNS at 11:00 pm PDT tonight, right?
>
> I'm just supposed to change anything that is pointing to
> 130.94.122.197 (except pliny.wikipedia.org) to point to
> 130.94.122.199, right?

Just www. and en. (both .org and .com). The others will be moved
over probably in groups. Just plain "wikipedia.org/.com" should
probably point to larousse as well.

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC

On Tue, 2003-05-13 at 09:57, Jason Richey wrote:
> Okay... So I'm looking at changing the DNS at 11:00 pm PDT tonight, right?

Sounds good.

> I'm just supposed to change anything that is pointing to
> 130.94.122.197 (except pliny.wikipedia.org) to point to
> 130.94.122.199, right?

Just changing www.wikipedia.org (and perhaps en.wikipedia.org) should do
it. All the other languages will continue to sit on pliny for a couple
more days so if we have to backpedal the impact is minimized. :)

The by-default entry can stay at .197 for now, since anything going to
the English wiki on purpose should either be www., en., or a redirect.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)