Mailing List Archive

On ĵaŭ, 2003-01-02 at 08:26, Erik Moeller wrote:
> When editing a page or displaying its history, you now get a link "View
> article" / "View user page" etc. to go back to displaying the page. This
> is something I have missed badly because I often edit a page and need to
> check how the article looked before my edits, but want to keep the edit
> window in its current state. Now I can open a new tab with the "View
> article" link and compare the two.
>
> As always, please let me know if there are any problems.

For editing, this duplicates the existing "Cancel" link. However, the
"Cancel" itself is sufficiently non-obvious in function and position
that it might make sense to just remove it in favor of this, which is in
the sidebar and consistent with the existing article/discussion links.
(However, note the "Nostalgia" skin lacks a sidebar completely, and
Cologne Blue still needs major overhaul.)

Ultimately though, I think it would be better to just have most of the
history, whatlinkshere, etc links equally available in editing and
history views (iow, "Don't mode me in!")

Now running on test.wikipedia.org, try it out. I'll let it in with
upgrades tonight unless there's a reason otherwise soon...

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

> Ultimately though, I think it would be better to just have most of the
> history, whatlinkshere, etc links equally available in editing and
> history views (iow, "Don't mode me in!")

I dunno, this might create the wrong impression for non-technical users
that these links then relate to the edited version of the article. I think
the mode lock-in has the advantage of sending a clear message: "Hey,
you're editing. You need to save this before doing anything else!"

What I do plan to add is an additional "View <subject> page" if it's a
Talk page.

Regards,

Erik

On dim, 2003-01-05 at 18:46, Erik Moeller wrote:
> > Ultimately though, I think it would be better to just have most of the
> > history, whatlinkshere, etc links equally available in editing and
> > history views (iow, "Don't mode me in!")
>
> I dunno, this might create the wrong impression for non-technical users
> that these links then relate to the edited version of the article.

Well, they do! Editing an article doesn't change what other articles
link to it, or what older revisions of it are stored in the database, or
the presence of its talk page...

> I think
> the mode lock-in has the advantage of sending a clear message: "Hey,
> you're editing. You need to save this before doing anything else!"

But that's not a true message, unless they're running Lynx on a
singletasking DOS machine with the right arrow on the keyboard broken...

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

> Well, they do! Editing an article doesn't change what other articles
> link to it, or what older revisions of it are stored in the database, or
> the presence of its talk page...

The following may behave in unexpected ways:
* Related changes (but I just inserted a link here!)
* Move this page (where did my edits go?)

"Watch this page" might also cause problems: Say you load "Watch this
page" in the background and then save your edit, but with the "Watch this
article" checkbox turned off - in that case the already watched article is
transparently unwatched.

>> I think
>> the mode lock-in has the advantage of sending a clear message: "Hey,
>> you're editing. You need to save this before doing anything else!"

> But that's not a true message, unless they're running Lynx on a
> singletasking DOS machine with the right arrow on the keyboard broken...

Most people browse in single window mode. But perhaps this risk is
exaggerated, thanks to Microsoft people already know that they have to
click "Save" as often as possible ..

How about this:


View mode Edit mode
---------------- --------------------
Edit this page View article
Watch this page [View subject page]
Move this page Older versions
Discuss this page What links here
Older versions
What links here
Related changes

Regards,

Erik

On dim, 2003-01-05 at 19:33, Erik Moeller wrote:
> > Well, they do! Editing an article doesn't change what other articles
> > link to it, or what older revisions of it are stored in the database, or
> > the presence of its talk page...
>
> The following may behave in unexpected ways:
> * Related changes (but I just inserted a link here!)
> * Move this page (where did my edits go?)
>
> "Watch this page" might also cause problems: Say you load "Watch this
> page" in the background and then save your edit, but with the "Watch this
> article" checkbox turned off - in that case the already watched article is
> transparently unwatched.

Every one of these is exactly as true if you select them after clicking
"View article", then go back to your edit window.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

On Mon, 2003-01-06 at 04:59, Brion Vibber wrote:
> On dim, 2003-01-05 at 19:33, Erik Moeller wrote:
> > > Well, they do! Editing an article doesn't change what other articles
> > > link to it, or what older revisions of it are stored in the database, or
> > > the presence of its talk page...
> >
> > The following may behave in unexpected ways:
> > * Related changes (but I just inserted a link here!)
> > * Move this page (where did my edits go?)
> >
> > "Watch this page" might also cause problems: Say you load "Watch this
> > page" in the background and then save your edit, but with the "Watch this
> > article" checkbox turned off - in that case the already watched article is
> > transparently unwatched.
>
> Every one of these is exactly as true if you select them after clicking
> "View article", then go back to your edit window.

The behavior is the same, but the expectation is different. Someone who
manages to load a link in the background is probably experienced enough
to realize that this will not apply to the version they are currently
editing.

Regards,

Erik

--
FOKUS - Fraunhofer Insitute for Open Communication Systems
Project BerliOS - http://www.berlios.de